Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

[Dave.UK]

Not at all. Apple literally showed the phone industry how to do smartphones. Now they've shown the PC industry how to do tablets. It would be a wasteland without what Apple did for them. We should all be thanking Apple profusely for making the whole industry better.

All Microsoft can compete with is price and "features" - they don't understand that post people who use these things do it because they fit their lifestyle... they're not buying them like they bought computers, but this is how Microsoft is trying to sell them. And why it is, and will continue to, fail.

I think what I said was lost on you! Without Microsoft there could possibly be no Apple.

As for the the smartphone argument - smartphones were heading in that direction anyway. Apple speeded it up, but the entire argument that we would all still be using flip phones with keyboards today if it wasnt for Apple is complete rubbish.

----------

I'll remember that.

Thanks!

We can only learn so much about the British people through BBC, PBS, Doctor Who and film.

And Google.......Or whatever Apple people use because im guessing its uncool to use Google

 

[brianvictor7]

Well it is a very Surface vs iPad article, and I come onto MacRumors having visited the website for years as a quite passionate Apple fan. Over the last two years though, nothing. The spark is gone, but the profits are not and I come here with my Microsoft flag because I don't think its right.

I admit to have some allegiance with Microsoft now, but that's purely because in the current day, they have the best products. Since 2001 with the iPod, Apple always had that leading product. It doesn't anymore, and sadly it doesn't appear they do in the their future. So I support the company that does have the best product, who sadly due to their unpopular image, aren't being given the attention and deserved commendation for it.

We all go through the stages of being in love with technology just like in any relationship. Typically it lasts 2 years before the spark starts to dim. After that we find out if there is something of substance to be married to ... so to speak ... where our tech choices are concerned.

The simple fact is that the quality gap between Windows, Android and Apple is closing. That's good. There should be more choices out there and no one should get complacent (the way MS did in the 00's). Now Microsoft can hardly get anyone to pay attention to them even when they put out an interesting product. From what I can tell by the few times I've played with Surface at BestBuy, it is a fine product. Most consumers would do well with it. It transforms from being a tablet to a laptop in a few seconds. Its battery life is adequate. All in all, pretty cool. Just one problem, no one will buy it because they don't trust Windows anymore. For an Apple user like me, I wouldn't get it because I'm more comfortable in the Apple ecosystem.

 

[Dave.UK]

Microsoft and "fantastic products" in the same sentence makes as much sense as the words "military" and "intelligence" or "Android" and "usable" in the same sentence.

Says someone thats probably never even held an Android device, let alone used one!

Its these type of comments that does Apple no favours and gives its userbase a bad reputation.

 

[pacalis]

Gold standard for some lazy executive who has all day to add up 5 numbers. This Gold standard statement is a total myth. Most of my peers both in my company and in my industry hate it and have found that 2010+ excel versions have added to their work load and added risk in their analysis. As I said, my job is spreadsheets and MS has continued to make their products a professional liability. If it weren't for M$ sunsetting its products and discontinuing support most of us would go back to 2008. I'm on Excel 2010 right now and between the stupid animations, having to go through 3 menus to print a range, and constant FU's with formatting and formulas due to the copy and paste function it’s a total disaster. Lotus123 was the best for usability, you didn't need to use a mouse, it was fast, and it was stable. From a UI perspective, the Ribbon and the animations are total screw ups. The current office products are the result of software development masturbation where someone is trying to prove their worth by both adding non-helpful features and additional code.

Sounds like you need to customize your quick access tool bar, add some macros and hide the ribbon. Ribbon sucks but excel is awesome.

Retina displays are dazzling, but for non-graphic-design business productivity they aren't that great an enhancement, IMHO. So the Surface Pro 2's 1080p display fires up more pixels than the 11" Air's (1366 x 768), but does that really matter when writing a report or crunching numbers in a spreadsheet?

If you HAVE to have 1080p for 1080p's sake, Amazon will sell you a Kindle Fire HD for $230.

1080p is the minimum to get legible two page view, or two one page views (i.e. adobe and word). If you're running productivity aps side by side, the MBA air resolution is usually too low.

And why does every MBA argument, after dismissing 1080p, and the lower weight, ignore wacom? This is a HUGE feature that most consumers are just starting to figure out how to use.

 

[Cryptex]

But apple really didnt bash the other players that much in those ads. They picked real user complaints and never dropped names etc. They focused on PCs as an umbrella without calling out HP, Dell etc. Not like MS blatantly going after Apple by name and pulling crap out of 'the air' to talk about.

iPads don't have a kickstand. Okay. iPads don't have Office or an equal preloaded. Okay. And so on.

And at least there was Mac to show that Apple could do. MS bashes without showing their stuff in good light.oh look I can click the kick stand and write my name on it. To dubstep. Must have it.

Even when MS does show their stuff they haven't figured out that that is enough. Folks are impatient and lose focus. Trim it up by showing what you can do and leave it at that. Don't pay the other boys any mind (a lesson apple learned and thus quit the Mac/PC ads)

The Mac vs. PC ads are probably the crowning achievement of Apple advertising. I'm sure they stopped simply to try something new, not because they began to disapprove of their competition bashing.

With user complaints of PCs, I agree. My iMac is the best computer I've ever owned when compared to tower-based PCs in my past and present. I don't see me wanting to rid of it anytime soon. However that's because at the time, it was the only PC that came in an all-in-one package. While Dell, HP, etc had laptops and all-in-ones, were those really Microsoft? No.

But that's what the Surface Pro is. It is Microsoft's shot at an all-in-one PC (that doubles as a tablet). And guess what? It's great!

 

[tbrinkma]

DirectX is used by Windows as well, which combined with Xbox gives it the highest user base by far.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Playstation user base is in the same neighborhood as the XBox user base. I'm fairly certain that the Games market for Windows machines *doesn't* include the majority of corporate-owned boxes, which is where Windows has a serious lead over the competition. DirectX very likely *doesn't* have a majority user base over OpenGL, etc., much less 'the highest user base by far'. Especially when you factor in smartphones, which seem to be the most active gaming market at the moment.

 

[Cryptex]

We all go through the stages of being in love with technology just like in any relationship. Typically it lasts 2 years before the spark starts to dim. After that we find out if there is something of substance to be married to ... so to speak ... where our tech choices are concerned.

The simple fact is that the quality gap between Windows, Android and Apple is closing. That's good. There should be more choices out there and no one should get complacent (the way MS did in the 00's). Now Microsoft can hardly get anyone to pay attention to them even when they put out an interesting product. From what I can tell by the few times I've played with Surface at BestBuy, it is a fine product. Most consumers would do well with it. It transforms from being a tablet to a laptop in a few seconds. Its battery life is adequate. All in all, pretty cool. Just one problem, no one will buy it because they don't trust Windows anymore. For an Apple user like me, I wouldn't get it because I'm more comfortable in the Apple ecosystem.

Fair enough. But it is disappointing that the opinions and consensus of everybody else dictates the fate and future of a platform that actually has a lot of potential to be better in every way to the most popular option. And that in the end affects your buying decision, and holds back the product and the industry.

 

[jaimeastin]

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_...0.7.3-update-causing-cui-interface-artifacts/

This happened a couple of years ago on my iMac, making my computer unusable. I couldn't back up anything at that time because Finder kept crashing (so thank god I had Time Machine setup) and I was forced to wipe the hard drive and restore. Of course Time Machine showed its magic in this case, but for anyone who didn't have a backup? Headache. Point being, Apple makes mistakes in software updates too.

Again, sales mean nothing. And marketing shouldn't either. I absolutely agree that Microsoft has a vastly inferior marketing team, but what does an ad have to do with the quality of the device? People should make an informed judgement before buying a device based on quality and features rather than the extravagance of an ad or the reputation of a brand. An ad may miss the point or make a wrong point, but what does that have to do with the object you eventually hold in your hand?

PS: The Macs that got bricked from that update weren't provided with a solution other than wiping, and wasn't acknowledged for over a week. The Surface case was identified and fixed in two days.

More importantly PEOPLE FOR YEARS HAVE HAD TO PURCHASE TOO MUCH COMPUTER!!!

80% of people never needed as much computer they purchased. They only wanted to browse the web. The computer was the only item to get them there. Smartphones and tablets (namely ios devices) were the first to really bring this into reality... That is why iOS is top dog!

The PC market has changed for Microsoft and Apple, period. Microsoft and the surface team will NEVER appeal to 50% of the market. These people will never see the benefits of a file system and other recourses because they were too confusing for them then. These people want a simple device that has games and apps that keep them from viruses and www.com scariness.

The surface is a beautiful product just like the ipad... But beauty is in the eye of the beholder... One would never see the beautify in a pipe wrench if they are not a plumber. One would never see the beauty of an ipad if they need more of a windows environment. One would never ever see the beauty of a surface if they were too dog gone ignorant to use a computer in the first place.


As you were stating to the poster about finances... What does that have to do with the average consumer??? Apple has really made it. They can brag about their profits and people who purchased a apple product feel like they are apart of the family and will inherit a dollar.. News flash, you will not see a dime so shut up about it. Companies loose on products too. MS surface loss does not meant the product is bad... It just has a more limited market than projected. Most ios people do not upgrade every year... just us fans, lol. They will use their devices till it is no more. Why would they buy a surface when their ipad fits the bill? Especially when they do not see the beauty of the surface.

The ipad is superior in sells and market share, but that is it. I have more and more people in meetings with me who have no clue about the surface. They pull out their ipad i pull out my surface... they look and throw their noes in the air, I smile and think I used to be just like you... They we start working... Their eyes widen as they look at me. At the end of the meeting or what have you, I have questions to answer. They get it. They want it. Their ipad feels old and out of touch. I mean it is good to play and read on the crapper, but man you just worked and had no limitations, as far as ios. Classrooms and boardrooms, people who need need more functionality are seeing this happen.

Oh yeah... Why do you all really think Apple is giving away iworks??? Surface and office.. Why do you think they revamped icloud??? Microsoft/Google, that's why. As good as it may be, iworks will not replace the other services... why??? The people who really need those services already use the others... People who did not will not even notice it. Simple. Yet apple will play the numbers game and say home many people have it, how many apps they have.. yet they never disclose the quality and how much it is being used... People think for a moment, may be you will be enlightened...

 

[brianvictor7]

I end this with, what is wrong with choice??? I understand many people do not have the opportunity to buy devices on a whim. I try not to, but I believe in having the right tool for the task. I have not found one to replace them all, at least for me. That is why I have Microsoft, Apple, Google, Linux, etc devices and software. No company controls where I spend my money... I control where and who I give my money to. It makes me so upset see ignorant fans on both sides.

Even websites we rely on news provide click bait articles... Not to your benefits, but to theirs. You/we equal to revenue. Don't you all see??? We are all divided into hateful clans. For what? MONEY! No pun or shun to Apple fans as this is an apple board, but lets stop being SHEEP!!! I am not a sheep to apple, Microsoft, or Google. I am the BIG BAD WOLF! I will roam to any of their product pastures seeking and devouring what I want and casting out what I don't.

Final thought... If your purchased or created product is so good, why must you bash someone else's to justify yourself? Why do you have to make a comment about what someone has compared to yours... Do you seriously think that they did not make a choice not to get what you have? Or that they could or may own what you had or even got rid of it??? We have to get our heads out of the pockets of companies and see things for YOURSELF. You or (i) is all that matters right?!

Well said! Friendly competition is great. It is fun to be part of a club. But why do people have to get so mean spirited?

 

[jaimeastin]

The Mac vs. PC ads are probably the crowning achievement of Apple advertising. I'm sure they stopped simply to try something new, not because they began to disapprove of their competition bashing.

With user complaints of PCs, I agree. My iMac is the best computer I've ever owned when compared to tower-based PCs in my past and present. I don't see me wanting to rid of it anytime soon. However that's because at the time, it was the only PC that came in an all-in-one package. While Dell, HP, etc had laptops and all-in-ones, were those really Microsoft? No.

But that's what the Surface Pro is. It is Microsoft's shot at an all-in-one PC (that doubles as a tablet). And guess what? It's great!

Right on target!

But user complaints of PCs was mostly due to peoples ignorance of computers. The past decade was the first time masses of people could afford a computer. People learned the hard way to use them. Their ignorance let to problems and viruses... All of which I never had or have.. Funny. Shoot I learned on an Apple II when I was under the age of 5. Used Macintoshes till windows 95. Did not go back to osx till a few years ago. That was just to stay current.

Microsoft's problem was not just he consumers ignorance. It was the OEMs too. They released crap with windows. Why? people wanted a cheap computer... Well, you get what you pay for. People then run to a $1,000 plus mac from a $300 PC? Seriously, do you not think there will be a better experience, from the hardware alone. Secondly those people learned (barely) how to use a computer on windows now think the mac is easier... Doh, they are taking knowledge learned from the past here. Yet they do not put this together and think this purchase was so much better then then. Again, the pc has gone through a major transition over the past decade. It has become more and more consumer friendly. Comparing an experience from the past to the future is silly...

Like you side, Microsoft is taking the hardware under their control. No more OEMs messing giving them a bad name. Microsoft thankfully has the resources to see this transition through. People can paint that they are out of touch, but the same is being said about apple. I hear amore and more people tired of the same old same old. They are looking for something fresh an in a couple of years, Microsoft may be fresher to the consumer than now... Come on... Old people now use iOS more then anyone else... It is going out the the windows See what i did there? (this is just a funny adaptation of a young consumer's thought)


Cant we all just get alone, LOL!

 

[Swytch]

I think what I said was lost on you! Without Microsoft there could possibly be no Apple.

WRONG!
http://www.neowin.net/news/trivia-tuesday-which-came-first-apple-or-microsoft

They were founded a year apart, and Apple had the first GUI OS. I think its more likely Microsoft or Windows would be nearly what it is today if not pushed to compete against Apple.

As for the the smartphone argument - smartphones were heading in that direction anyway. Apple speeded it up, but the entire argument that we would all still be using flip phones with keyboards today if it wasnt for Apple is complete rubbish.

So first youre going to say there could be no Apple without Microsoft, but then state that even without Apple there would still be iPhone like Smartphones? You are probably right, but the exact same can be applied to your first statement, computer industry was headed in the direction it went in the 80s with or without Microsoft or Apple...

Fail.

 

[Cryptex]

Right on target!

But user complaints of PCs was mostly due to peoples ignorance of computers. The past decade was the first time masses of people could afford a computer. People learned the hard way to use them. Their ignorance let to problems and viruses... All of which I never had or have.. Funny. Shoot I learned on an Apple II when I was under the age of 5. Used Macintoshes till windows 95. Did not go back to osx till a few years ago. That was just to stay current.

Microsoft's problem was not just he consumers ignorance. It was the OEMs too. They released crap with windows. Why? people wanted a cheap computer... Well, you get what you pay for. People then run to a $1,000 plus mac from a $300 PC? Seriously, do you not think there will be a better experience, from the hardware alone. Secondly those people learned (barely) how to use a computer on windows now think the mac is easier... Doh, they are taking knowledge learned from the past here. Yet they do not put this together and think this purchase was so much better then then. Again, the pc has gone through a major transition over the past decade. It has become more and more consumer friendly. Comparing an experience from the past to the future is silly...

Like you side, Microsoft is taking the hardware under their control. No more OEMs messing giving them a bad name. Microsoft thankfully has the resources to see this transition through. People can paint that they are out of touch, but the same is being said about apple. I hear amore and more people tired of the same old same old. They are looking for something fresh an in a couple of years, Microsoft may be fresher to the consumer than now... Come on... Old people now use iOS more then anyone else... It is going out the the windows See what i did there? (this is just a funny adaptation of a young consumer's thought)


Cant we all just get alone, LOL!

I agree with your input, young Ser. And to your previous post about having a bit of everything, the problem that lies there is Apple not being friendly with other devices, while everyone else does play friendly with each other. Certainly sucks considering I love iMessage but iOS grew stale on me after 5 years.

 

[nefan65]

Fair enough. But it is disappointing that the opinions and consensus of everybody else dictates the fate and future of a platform that actually has a lot of potential to be better in every way to the most popular option. And that in the end affects your buying decision, and holds back the product and the industry.

I think you answered your own question [not that it was a question, but more of wondering why...]. There's a reason products become popular, and continue to do so; its good marketing and a good product. In some cases it's also price, but people will pay extra for something that's made well, lasts, and has some decent resale value. It also has some to do with the history of the company, and the product they're selling, but I won't get into all that, because it would turn into a novel.

If MS had done a better job of telling people WHY the Surface/Win 8.x were better than alternatives, then I think things would have been different. Instead they focused on bashing, name calling, etc. and it was all lost in translation. Example: The dopey Nokia/Win phone commercial. It is funny, but it's not making people run out and buy their phone. It's not until the very end of the commercial where they show the couple sitting in the back of the auditorium with the picture of the stage zoomed in. Show MORE of the phone! What can it do? What are its key features? WHY SHOULD I BUY ONE!?

I don't feel bad if a company fails to show the consumers why their product is great, and why it is better than the competition. If they can't do that, shame on them...not the media, or people on an Internet forum.

 

[HeroofTime231]

Okay, snarkiness aside, Shaw is putting out a valid ARGUMENT about Microsoft Office. It's NOT that iWork is bad: it's just that Office (in most ways) is a lot more powerful. It's no surprise though, as Microsoft has been working on the suite for over 20 years! They deserve credit where credit is due. Having said that, I don't use Office. Why? Because iWork has always been a cheaper alternative that has allowed me to do exactly what I need out of it: to make word documents, slide shows, and spreadsheets. Nothing special. And that's where it all lies. Everyone has different needs, and different sensibilities that effect those needs. I love Pages, for instance, because of its price, simple interface, and ease of use. That's it. That's all I need. But other people have different needs; needs that require Word's vast amount of additional tools. There is no arguing this. I will say, however, that for people like me, who just need the bare bones basics (and then some), having a free productivity suite already installed on their new Mac might make it a little harder for them to justify spending $140 on a package that, for them, does the same thing. I think it is here where Apple has a chance to finally give some decent exposure to iWork, though I don't believe they'll ever be able to surpass Office unless they really beef up the suite.

Oh, and to the people calling iPad a "toy" and saying that it's not for people who need productivity, you're just as guilty of ignorance. In addition to discounting the hundreds of business settings where iPad is used, you are essentially saying that your view of productivity is somehow better than someone else's. Stop being so Insulting. Once the internet learns how stupid attacking people's sensibilities is (which I concede will never happen), it will become a better place.

I gotta say though, Keynote can make a mean slideshow like nobody's business

 

[Tiger8]

Yes i am
I dont wanna read up on it either because i became allergic to MS products over the years.
Y dont the use windows 8 all the way then? Are all these surface OSs compatible with programs running on windows?
Whats the point of having so many different OSs?

Windows RT / Office RT runs on ARM architecture, which is very different than MS's bread and butter (x86 architecture).

So really there are three Windows 8s (They only share the look):
1. Windows 8 (Home, Professional, Enterprise, etc... This is the 'next version' of Windows 7). All new laptops and Surface Pro.
2. Windows 8 RT: For Surface (and a couple of other tablets). MS are betting that long battery life would be attractive enough. However (and that's just me) I think Intel has been doing great work in terms of battery life improvement, they have things in the pipeline that could get very close to ARM battery life in 2014 or 2015... so by theory it won't be long before we see laptops and tablets running FULL Windows version with excellent battery life. Which begs the question: WHY MICROSOFT WHY?
3. Windows 8 Phone: And believe it or not, this is actually the best of the bunch. I tested an HTC 8X and to be honest I'm half-impressed.

Microsoft complains about developer adoption. No wonder, if you want your App to be metro you need to develop it for THREE plantforms.

All in all, confusion, I think they just throw (STUFF) at the wall hoping something sticks.

 

[Dave.UK]

WRONG!
http://www.neowin.net/news/trivia-tuesday-which-came-first-apple-or-microsoft

They were founded a year apart, and Apple had the first GUI OS. I think its more likely Microsoft or Windows would be nearly what it is today if not pushed to compete against Apple.



So first youre going to say there could be no Apple without Microsoft, but then state that even without Apple there would still be iPhone like Smartphones? You are probably right, but the exact same can be applied to your first statement, computer industry was headed in the direction it went in the 80s with or without Microsoft or Apple...

Fail.

Indeed it is.

Let me make it slightly more easier for you to understand.

http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Maybe not to open, but there is more to doing work than just opening a file here and there. Pages is a decent program, but feature wise it doesn't hold a candle to Word. And let's not even the massive functionality differences between Numbers and Excel.

The only thing, productivity wise, that Apple does better than Microsoft, in my opinion, is Keynote.

I guess my point, about Word in particular, is that it's a bloated mess with 'features' that most 'normal' person would never use, plus the UI is so abusive to make it very difficult for anyone who might want to use those 'features' to find them, and figure out how they can make them work.

Pages is a word processor, it's not a Swiss Army knife with 2,374 blades and gizmos.

I think too much of Word's mystique is that it's the 'office standard', and really doesn't deserve that standing. Like in real life, sometimes big is just big... Bloated... Unwieldy... Unnecessary...

Why was WordPerfect so popular? It worked... Easily... Well...

Why did WordPerfect die? Because the corporation that owed it tried to compete with the Word, and Office is the 'company standard' (World standard?) mantra. The 'Microsoft is God' zeitgeist. The 'Word is god' meme...

 

[brianvictor7]

More importantly PEOPLE FOR YEARS HAVE HAD TO PURCHASE TOO MUCH COMPUTER!!!

80% of people never needed as much computer they purchased. They only wanted to browse the web. The computer was the only item to get them there. Smartphones and tablets (namely ios devices) were the first to really bring this into reality... That is why iOS is top dog!

The PC market has changed for Microsoft and Apple, period. Microsoft and the surface team will NEVER appeal to 50% of the market. These people will never see the benefits of a file system and other recourses because they were too confusing for them then. These people want a simple device that has games and apps that keep them from viruses and www.com scariness.

The surface is a beautiful product just like the ipad... But beauty is in the eye of the beholder... One would never see the beautify in a pipe wrench if they are not a plumber. One would never see the beauty of an ipad if they need more of a windows environment. One would never ever see the beauty of a surface if they were too dog gone ignorant to use a computer in the first place.


As you were stating to the poster about finances... What does that have to do with the average consumer??? Apple has really made it. They can brag about their profits and people who purchased a apple product feel like they are apart of the family and will inherit a dollar.. News flash, you will not see a dime so shut up about it. Companies loose on products too. MS surface loss does not meant the product is bad... It just has a more limited market than projected. Most ios people do not upgrade every year... just us fans, lol. They will use their devices till it is no more. Why would they buy a surface when their ipad fits the bill? Especially when they do not see the beauty of the surface.

The ipad is superior in sells and market share, but that is it. I have more and more people in meetings with me who have no clue about the surface. They pull out their ipad i pull out my surface... they look and throw their noes in the air, I smile and think I used to be just like you... They we start working... Their eyes widen as they look at me. At the end of the meeting or what have you, I have questions to answer. They get it. They want it. Their ipad feels old and out of touch. I mean it is good to play and read on the crapper, but man you just worked and had no limitations, as far as ios. Classrooms and boardrooms, people who need need more functionality are seeing this happen.

Oh yeah... Why do you all really think Apple is giving away iworks??? Surface and office.. Why do you think they revamped icloud??? Microsoft/Google, that's why. As good as it may be, iworks will not replace the other services... why??? The people who really need those services already use the others... People who did not will not even notice it. Simple. Yet apple will play the numbers game and say home many people have it, how many apps they have.. yet they never disclose the quality and how much it is being used... People think for a moment, may be you will be enlightened...

I might just have to test drive a Surface. See if it is what I need.

 

[Cryptex]

WRONG!
http://www.neowin.net/news/trivia-tuesday-which-came-first-apple-or-microsoft

They were founded a year apart, and Apple had the first GUI OS. I think its more likely Microsoft or Windows would be nearly what it is today if not pushed to compete against Apple.



So first youre going to say there could be no Apple without Microsoft, but then state that even without Apple there would still be iPhone like Smartphones? You are probably right, but the exact same can be applied to your first statement, computer industry was headed in the direction it went in the 80s with or without Microsoft or Apple...

Fail.

Perhaps he was referring to the Apple bailout of the 90s? Not the inception of the company...

Also I don't agree with the comments said above about smartphones just heading there eventually. Apple was definitely needed to take the industry there because that's what they did. Sadly, I just don't think they do that anymore...

 

[r.harris1]

Well it is a very Surface vs iPad article, and I come onto MacRumors having visited the website for years as a quite passionate Apple fan. Over the last two years though, nothing. The spark is gone, but the profits are not and I come here with my Microsoft flag because I don't think its right.

I admit to have some allegiance with Microsoft now, but that's purely because in the current day, they have the best products. Since 2001 with the iPod, Apple always had that leading product. It doesn't anymore, and sadly it doesn't appear they do in the their future. So I support the company that does have the best product, who sadly due to their unpopular image, aren't being given the attention and deserved commendation for it.

Obviously, "better" is a personal assessment, right? I'm struggling to think of a product that Microsoft has really nailed - Xbox maybe (not a gamer, so don't know). I have the opportunity to use a Surface as part of what my team does at work, and I find it (to me) to be neither a good tablet experience nor a good laptop experience. And this isn't casual use. And doesn't Microsoft have the blame for their image? If it's truly unpopular, it's not because ickle Microsoft is being beaten up by playground bullies.

To summarize a point I was trying to get across (albeit poorly) in a previous post, Microsoft's business model is "ubiquity". People use it because it's there. People use it because that's what work provides. And it used to be true in a previous decade that because new technology often appeared first in the workplace, people wanted it at home. Now that paradigm has been turned on its head. I'm lucky enough to be part of a BYOD program where I can utilize my Mac, iPad, iPhone as my main productivity ecosystem. My Mac gives me an extremely sophisticated OS in Mavericks that lets me be productive in multiple ecosystems - Linux and even various versions of MS Windows, as needed. It lets me switch over to being productive in my hobbies like Photography with a variety of applications, some of which appear in one form or another on the iPad BUT are also designed for the iPad and the tablet experience. I love the industrial design too (obviously, that's a personal thing).

I actually like the new iWork for what I do and it is well on its way to having a good experience across multiple devices designed for those specific devices. While not everyone will like it, there's at least some thought put in to how things work across different devices.

So while Microsoft might not be getting a fair rap for what they are doing, reasons why might include the decisions that come out of Redmond. And the rant from their employee which is the subject of this thread is an example of that - someone decided that should be public. Instead of telling me why I shouldn't be using someone else's product, they should be telling me why I should be using theirs: Why is it so great? How is it going to change the way I do things? Tell me why they made the design decisions they made. Make the case to me.

Yes, yes, the I'm-a-Mac ads poked fun at Microsoft and the fragmentation that is life with a PC, but the tone was nothing like this in my opinion.

And I know there are some super smart people at Microsoft, including in their design and product engineering teams. Maybe their leadership team should let them speak for their products, I don't know.

 

[HenryDJP]

Quite frankly, iWorks will never see mass appeal or adoption for the mere fact that it is not available on Windows computers. A productivity tool cannot thrive when it's only available for a minority group of consumers.

And that's why Apple has put iWork (no "S" ) on iOS devices so you're wrong about that. Microsoft Office got big because yes, the world adopted Windows machines rapidly. Well mobile devices have not only taken off but Apple iOS devices are in the hands of millions and millions and they are being used in the business world so the tables have turned. Put your great product on a high-profile device and it will get success so just sit back eat your words.

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

How exactly does a Macbook Air serve as a tablet? Hasn't the iPad/tablet market shown how this different form of input can bring better experiences in some ways? Why not have a product that has the freedom of traditional PCs with the advantages of a tablet?

And please don't argue the resolution. How is a sharper PPI ever a bad or unnecessary thing when pixels can certainly be discerned by the human eye on the Macbook Air screen?

Furthermore, you are arguing that the Surface is miss-mash, but convergence is the future. That's the basis of a smartphone for example; to do more with one device. Of course I think you should spend more to get the keyboard, which admittedly I got for free with my original Surface simply talking to the sales rep in a store, because that's what completes the convergence. I love having the Surface on its own for media consumption, but when I need to do some serious typing or use Office, just hover the Surface over the keyboard, it snaps into position, and it just works. Win-win.

Convergence is beneficial only when it makes sense. If Samsung tried to make a wristwatch that can do 4k video editing, the result would probably be unpleasant for watch-wearers and post-production video editors alike.

An iPhone CAN surf the web, but it's not the ideal web-surfing user experience. Apple's design ethic with their phone is to make it do communication-related things (calls, notifications, messaging) and clutch 'n' go media creation (still camera and video) tasks well with great ergonomics, UI and respectable battery life. The other things it does are just frosting on that cake.

Apple's idea on "convergence" is to make a consistent UI experience across several devices that communicate with one another intelligently. That means a user can pick the device that best suits his/her application for the task ahead. I'm sure Apple would love for all of their customers to have a desktop, a laptop, a tablet, and a phone so that the user can pick and choose which hardware is best in any given situation. The experience is the convergence--the way all of the devices work together as a system. This is considerably better for the consumer overall, and certainly is good for Apple, who can sell four high-tech devices to their customers instead of just one.

Trying to shoehorn all of the design goals of a laptop and tablet together, do it cost-effectively, while maintaining the computing power expectations of a laptop with the size, weight, and battery life expectations of a tablet is a tall order. Sales would suggest that Microsoft did not effectively achieve that goal.

 

[brianvictor7]

Lets stop being SHEEP!!! I am not a sheep to apple, Microsoft, or Google. I am the BIG BAD WOLF! I will roam to any of their product pastures seeking and devouring what I want and casting out what I don't.

This speaks to me. Who wants to be prey?

 

[Meister]

Windows RT / Office RT runs on ARM architecture, which is very different than MS's bread and butter (x86 architecture).

So really there are three Windows 8s (They only share the look):
1. Windows 8 (Home, Professional, Enterprise, etc... This is the 'next version' of Windows 7). All new laptops and Surface Pro.
2. Windows 8 RT: For Surface (and a couple of other tablets). MS are betting that long battery life would be attractive enough. However (and that's just me) I think Intel has been doing great work in terms of battery life improvement, they have things in the pipeline that could get very close to ARM battery life in 2014 or 2015... so by theory it won't be long before we see laptops and tablets running FULL Windows version with excellent battery life. Which begs the question: WHY MICROSOFT WHY?
3. Windows 8 Phone: And believe it or not, this is actually the best of the bunch. I tested an HTC 8X and to be honest I'm half-impressed.

Microsoft complains about developer adoption. No wonder, if you want your App to be metro you need to develop it for THREE plantforms.

All in all, confusion, I think they just throw (STUFF) at the wall hoping something sticks.

I second that!
I have a lumia 900.
The phone hardware is quite beautiful but windows phone lacks even basic functions (vpn, blocking location services)
The "windows market place" is just an insult!!
MS is putting themselves out of business with three OSs.
What r these people smoking??

 

[i4m]

WHY? if you need productivity get a macbook, if you need entertainment and super mobility get an iPad. It's that simple.

It would still be nice to use ipads for both entertainment and productivity.
And to be honest the MS Office is better than iWork.

I think Microsoft should find a way to get MS Office on the ipad, and improve user experience on this device.