Well, good luck to your son when he joins the workforce and puts proficiency in iWork in his resume with no knowledge in Excel and Word.
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Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads
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Well, good luck to your son when he joins the workforce and puts proficiency in iWork in his resume with no knowledge in Excel and Word.
And then there is this - quoted by Gruber, one of the biggest Apple fans of all time:
"As for spreadsheets and presentation software, the only competition Im aware of is Excel and PowerPoint from the MS Office suite. Ive never used PowerPoint and havent used Excel in almost 20 years, but David Sparks says their AppleScript support was better than iWorks even before the purge. Now Apple is essentially pushing its power users toward Microsoft. Its a funny world."
Apple you're killing me here. How can I provide real fool-proof solutions to my Mac & iOS users? Heck I can't even lock a cell in Numbers to keep users from accidentally typing over formulas. How do you think spreadsheets are actually used by businesses?
"As for spreadsheets and presentation software, the only competition Im aware of is Excel and PowerPoint from the MS Office suite. Ive never used PowerPoint and havent used Excel in almost 20 years, but David Sparks says their AppleScript support was better than iWorks even before the purge. Now Apple is essentially pushing its power users toward Microsoft. Its a funny world."
Apple you're killing me here. How can I provide real fool-proof solutions to my Mac & iOS users? Heck I can't even lock a cell in Numbers to keep users from accidentally typing over formulas. How do you think spreadsheets are actually used by businesses?
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It really varies on industry. Most healthcare organizations [hospitals] use an accounting system that's part of their HIS systems. It's all integrated with billing, procedures done on patients, etc. They use spreadsheets for some forecasting stuff, etc. but that's about it.
Some SMB's use MAS, Great Plains, etc. It all varies, but to your point, I don't know of many accounting departments that use Excel as their sole tool.
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I wouldn't call an ad hominem fallacy objective.
It is my opinion based on many objective facts. Do you really think its a good laptop? Hardware alone - it has poor ergonomics, limited screen angle adjustment, a below average keyboard, and requires a flat surface to work on.
Unless of course he is applying to work for the biggest tech company in the world Apple (or for that matter second biggest - google)
Guess you didn't read my post, and just interjected. Did I say he just used iWork? Did I say he didn't use Office, or Word/Excel as you mentioned? I said he can use an iPad to type on, and he's very proficient at it, as are a lot of kids his age.
Good luck finding a job where you know how to read, and comprehend.
You guys are so blinded by your own emotional attachment to Apple and its products that you have completely lost the ability to actually look at things and use your brains to come to a logical conclusion. The fanboyism on this site has gotten so bad I hardly ever even post anymore.
The new surface is awesome. There. I said it. Good battery life, gorgeous design, the keyboard smart-cover (BACKLIT!) is fantastic, it's got a full feature set, and it's not terribly expensive for what it does.
Now I'm not saying that the iPad is a piece of crap, not by a long shot. They're EXCELLENT toys, and pretty useful tools. The difference is that the Surface is a great tool, and a pretty cool toy. The focus of the device is different, that's all... and in the focus being different, they've solved practically every gripe I have about the iPad. USB drives? Check. Memory cards? Check. File management? Check. These are extremely basic things that a great many users need as a TOOL that most Apple customers don't need because for them the iPad is a TOY.
It's OK to have toys. I have plenty of them. Fun is important. ...but I never bought an iPad because I just couldn't think of any real reason to have one - I have other toys that fill its shoes adequately, and it didn't bring much of anything to the tool department that I needed and a Laptop couldn't fill. ...but the surface? I'm actually thinking about getting one of those.
The new surface is awesome. There. I said it. Good battery life, gorgeous design, the keyboard smart-cover (BACKLIT!) is fantastic, it's got a full feature set, and it's not terribly expensive for what it does.
Now I'm not saying that the iPad is a piece of crap, not by a long shot. They're EXCELLENT toys, and pretty useful tools. The difference is that the Surface is a great tool, and a pretty cool toy. The focus of the device is different, that's all... and in the focus being different, they've solved practically every gripe I have about the iPad. USB drives? Check. Memory cards? Check. File management? Check. These are extremely basic things that a great many users need as a TOOL that most Apple customers don't need because for them the iPad is a TOY.
It's OK to have toys. I have plenty of them. Fun is important. ...but I never bought an iPad because I just couldn't think of any real reason to have one - I have other toys that fill its shoes adequately, and it didn't bring much of anything to the tool department that I needed and a Laptop couldn't fill. ...but the surface? I'm actually thinking about getting one of those.
Your post is a breath of fresh air. Logic and reason amid a sea of team-driven cheerleaders. Thanks.
I come here not just to see and comment on the advantages of one product over another, but the disadvantages as well. I like to hear what people like, and what they don't like. Sadly, most of it ends up being "Apple sucks, die Microsoft, if you don't like Apple, shut up" and very little is substantial.
Fortunately, there are a few that actually want to discuss things, not bash one another.
-PS: The iPad is much more than a toy, given that I see it used professionally in many environments, including my own (large mobile telecom app suport). An SSH app and boom, I'm doing 95% of what I do to earn a living. Not as comfortable as my desk, but sometimes I like to work from my bedroom.
So why is the Surface not selling? I was always under the impression that great products always find the market. But the need to be great. So far the Surface fails on that account.
MS has made one of the most unique tablets on the market (different from iPad). 16:9 instead of 4:3; live tiles instead of static icons; squared corners instead of rounded; full USB port; kickstand; innovative optional keyboards; MicroSD expansion, multiple apps on screen, multi user accounts...
You can like one product or another more according to your needs and circunstances, but please tell me in what things you think Surface is a copy of iPad. ¿Touch screen?, hehe
For one, the whole idea of an operating system designed specifically for a mobile touchscreen device running on hardware optimized for it. Another is a touchscreen that actually worked.
The Surface isn't a bad tablet and it does a very limited number of things better than the iPad--but the iPad does most things as good as or better than the surface for now. If the surface meets your needs then you should buy it--but its clear that most people aren't. Considering how much money Microsoft is bleeding right now.
Your post is a breath of fresh air. Logic and reason amid a sea of team-driven cheerleaders. Thanks.
I come here not just to see and comment on the advantages of one product over another, but the disadvantages as well. I like to hear what people like, and what they don't like. Sadly, most of it ends up being "Apple sucks, die Microsoft, if you don't like Apple, shut up" and very little is substantial.
Fortunately, there are a few that actually want to discuss things, not bash one another.
-PS: The iPad is much more than a toy, given that I see it used professionally in many environments, including my own (large mobile telecom app suport). An SSH app and boom, I'm doing 95% of what I do to earn a living. Not as comfortable as my desk, but sometimes I like to work from my bedroom.
Beautifully said. We need more discussion, no name calling. Personally, I love Apple. Love the look of its products. Love many of the features and attention to detail that both the hardware and software receive. My wife has flat out said that I treat my iMac like a second child. I use it to write stories and procedures documents. I create wonderful presentations with iMovie and Keynote and am strongly considering purchasing Final Cut Pro to up my capablilities.
But I also am in the National Guard and we're treated worse than red-headed step-children where office equipment is concerned. I have no computer to get things done. So what will meet my needs best in that environment? A Surface? A Macbook Retina w/ Windows on the bootcamp just in case? An iPad with a wireless keyboard? And what about the future? My iMac won't last forever. Do I want to spring for a MB Retina as a portable replacement?
The comments made here have helped inform me of other peoples' experiences and perspectives. That's valuable and because of it I'm considering dropping by BestBuy to give the Surface a serious try, just to see how well we work together. Even if I don't keep it, the experience will have helped teach me what else is out there.
What is Apple's old moto? Think Different.
Fact is Apple completely screwed the pooch with the new version of iWork. And I hope the ensuing ***** storm will finally bring them to their senses. If the suite even had a third of the features that Office has it would be a viable competitor. I guess free in iWorks case really means free as in no real value.
It's a ground up rewrite, so I'm sure there'll be additions made over time. They're also trying to align it with the iOS and iCloud offerings. Only time will tell, but hopefully they'll continue to work on it, and make it better over time.
This back and forth comparison on the Surface vs iPad is silly. And it's back to the original point of the article, it's stupid of MS to bash the iPad... consumers have spoken with their pocket books and the Surface is not cutting the mustard in the sales department.
Personally, I think the Surface suffers from trying to be too much... It's a tablet... but it's like a laptop... it's a "Laplet". Who cares if it does Excel or MS Word? Anyone who has to do this for "real work" will work on a real computer or laptop.
Specs aside and you can argue back and forth about why one is better than the other, but it's very clear not that many consumers are buying the MS story and the Surface Laplet... it's a pathetic showing for such a keystone company.
Personally, I think the Surface suffers from trying to be too much... It's a tablet... but it's like a laptop... it's a "Laplet". Who cares if it does Excel or MS Word? Anyone who has to do this for "real work" will work on a real computer or laptop.
Specs aside and you can argue back and forth about why one is better than the other, but it's very clear not that many consumers are buying the MS story and the Surface Laplet... it's a pathetic showing for such a keystone company.
Numbers is not close to Excel
I played with the new numbers for a couple of hours last night. It is not for people who've used Excel and have been using spreadsheets since the early 80s.
Sadly, Numbers is clunky, unintuitive and not worth free, imho. I searched for the fill down and fill up function. Nothing. Then just for fill, nothing but filling colors.
And it doesn't come with formulas for discounted cash flows, etc.
It is a fancy calculator at best. And you can use it for simple charts.
I played with the new numbers for a couple of hours last night. It is not for people who've used Excel and have been using spreadsheets since the early 80s.
Sadly, Numbers is clunky, unintuitive and not worth free, imho. I searched for the fill down and fill up function. Nothing. Then just for fill, nothing but filling colors.
And it doesn't come with formulas for discounted cash flows, etc.
It is a fancy calculator at best. And you can use it for simple charts.
Im wondering if its really the Apple ecosystem thats the true attraction to iPads and Apple mobile devices versus the physical devices themselves? The App Store has more killer apps, more stable apps, and just more apps than anything MS or Android can come up with. They smartly make their stuff 100% proprietary so you must play in their garden if you want to play.
Its a great way to grab a large audience and pretty much have them roped in forever. Even those users that want to switch over to Android or MS.... what are they gonna do with all of those $1.29 / Apple ONLY itunes song files? Or, movies they bought on iTunes? The answer is nothng.... they are staying Apple forever. Its a brilliant move by Apple.
As for MS - they are trying to make it in this tablet market but I just cant get down with Windows 8 or this idea of a "hybrid" tablet that tries to be everything. The iPad(I love mine) is mostly a consumption device or a toy as many here have pointed out. But its a DAMNED good toy that just works. People love that. The lack of file management or any of that "computer" stuff is a plus for most users. Its hard for us geeks to realize that but most people dont need a file system to screw with.
iWork is a decent product but its like comparing a Division 3 College football program to The Miami Hurricanes football program. There isnt any comparison.
Competition is always good for us consumers so I want to see MS keep trudging along... if they or anyone else can put more pressure on Apple then Apple will be forced to lower prices and/or kick up the specs and thats good for us
Its a great way to grab a large audience and pretty much have them roped in forever. Even those users that want to switch over to Android or MS.... what are they gonna do with all of those $1.29 / Apple ONLY itunes song files? Or, movies they bought on iTunes? The answer is nothng.... they are staying Apple forever. Its a brilliant move by Apple.
As for MS - they are trying to make it in this tablet market but I just cant get down with Windows 8 or this idea of a "hybrid" tablet that tries to be everything. The iPad(I love mine) is mostly a consumption device or a toy as many here have pointed out. But its a DAMNED good toy that just works. People love that. The lack of file management or any of that "computer" stuff is a plus for most users. Its hard for us geeks to realize that but most people dont need a file system to screw with.
iWork is a decent product but its like comparing a Division 3 College football program to The Miami Hurricanes football program. There isnt any comparison.
Competition is always good for us consumers so I want to see MS keep trudging along... if they or anyone else can put more pressure on Apple then Apple will be forced to lower prices and/or kick up the specs and thats good for us
Well to it's credit Numbers does support fill ok and series fill albeit very unintuitively. If Apple were true to their colors, then they'd make common features like filling super clear. But alas with Numbers they fell flat on their face. Seems the stigma against the business-corporate culture and attendant solutions still runs strong in artsy Apple. Too bad because Apple's artsy design sensibilities could do wonders if intuitively integrated with the right features.
Yes for the most part I agree. In its current state Numbers is no more than a glorified calculator with some flashy extras.
If you think great products always find the market, then you don't know much about the market.
What won, beta or VHS? What was better? What won the OS wars of the 80s? Windows or MacOS? What was better? What won, miniDisk or CD? What was better? What won, diesel or petrol? What was better? What won, the Apple Newton or the Palm Pilot? What was better? What happened to TiVo? The list goes on and on and on.
What you're failing to realize is that Apple is the new Microsoft, and Microsoft... is the new Apple.