Microsoft Bashes Apple's iWork Software, New iPads

[brianvictor7]

Well, it's definitely a huge factor as a 15" laptop is still a 15" laptop More importantly though, currently the Surface replaced not only my iPad and a crappy work Dell laptop, but also added few interesting usage scenarios - I've been taking a lot of hand-written notes on it with the stylus and the touch keyboard is silent and great in meetings.

In my day-to-day, my MBP has basically become what my desktop PC used to be - the big, powerful PC that you use when you need it all. The SP2 has become the small and lean convergence device that can cover most of my needs.

Thanks again! That's extremely interesting. Again, I'll have to pay the Surface some more attention. Even if I never get one, to a tech junkie like myself, it is neat to see new possibilities.

 

[Cyborg21]

????

Did you know that microsoft copied macintosh project to make first non-apple computer?

 

[brianvictor7]

What is specifically wrong with Pages 5? It is faster than it was before - I do not see anything that was removed in functionality and it now includes collaboration.

Same with Numbers - no functions were removed - in fact there were more added and it is much faster and more responsive than before - indicating that there was a significant re-write or refactoring of code in the back-end.

I see this update similar to Google Docs update where they totally re-wrote the code base to leverage HTML 5. After that was done - new functionality was rapidly added making Google Docs a solid set of applications.

I see where Apple is going with this update. Is it on par feature for feature with Office now? No. However it is improved and I would expect the next release to include even more features built on an optimized code base.

Everyone is thinking that this is the last version of iWorks. I don't think it is.

Thank you for adding a positive spin on this. I like that. It is easy to get angry and wrapped up in what is wrong with stuff. Pages is definitely leaps ahead of Google Doc sharing. And we can hope for feature improvements in the coming months and years.

 

[vladi]

Windows 8 sucks. Everyone knows it.

The Surface hasn't sold well at all, to the point of having the price slashed. Everyone knows it.

The iPad experience is better. Everyone knows it. Sales prove it.

Fail.

Unfortunately sales prove nothing except who has better and bigger marketing budget and penetration.

I wish we would live in a world where exceptional products would be awarded by users but that is not the case. If that was the case we would not be ruled by absolutely incoherent and hectic Android in the first place.

Microsoft has nice intentions here but you cant make a productive tablet and I am sure Apple is aware of this and that's why they are not pushing it as productive. Unless there is a mind reader and somehow they get away from typing then we can talk about productivity on tablet, but as long as it involves a lot of typing or shortcuts that require hardware keys in order to keep screen real estate usable tablets' productivity will end with Instagram picture editors, some painting tools, mix and match apps and remote control apps for something that's already running on PC.

 

[brianvictor7]

Unfortunately sales prove nothing except who has better and bigger marketing budget and penetration.

I wish we would live in a world where exceptional products would be awarded by users but that is not the case.

I like that idea!

 

[BaldiMac]

So you believe forcing users to do it Timmy's way is better than choice?

That's what we call a false dichotomy. What I believe is that users should be able to choose to purchase the products that Apple chooses to make. I also believe that its better for Apple to take the time to make the right choice rather than provide the opportunity for people to make an uninformed choice. Yes, this does mean that Apple isn't right for everyone and their choices are not always right for everyone.

The main feature that first made me want a Mac was so simple. Address Book. Apple made a choice. Contacts go in Address Book. Windows had so many different options that I never bothered to enter my contacts because every program had it's own contact database. Despite the platitude, choice isn't always good.

And what is objective about them?

Have you ever used a Surface? No, you haven't.

Have we met?

-It does not have poor ergonomics. Demonstrate that it does.

There's a reason desktop keyboards do not lay flat on your desk.

-The screen angle adjustment has now been improved and works great in my use.

And is still more limited than a standard laptop.

-The new backlit keyboards are fantastic. Many reviewers corroborate this finding.

Sure. It's great for what it is. It's just not as good as a good laptop keyboard.

-No, it does not require a flat surface to work on.

Good one.

----------

Unfortunately sales prove nothing except who has better and bigger marketing budget and penetration.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ycharts...rosoft-another-lesson-in-quality-vs-quantity/

 

[Vip]

If we look at it this way...

80% of the people using excel use only 20% of the features of excel.

Numbers has greater than 20% of the key features that 80% of excel users need. QED.

Stopped using Outlook, apple mail is more than capable. Especially if you use gmail - try getting that to behave properly with Outlook on mac yuk!

KeyNote knocks socks off Powerpoint.

Pages is more than a match for Word.

Best of all I now have all of these on my mac for FREE!

Looks like the thread is full of Office lovers that represent the 20% super users of Office (excel in particular) that don't really matter to the real world!

 

[brianvictor7]

80% of the people using excel use only 20% of the features of excel.

Numbers has greater than 20% of the key features that 80% of excel users need. QED.

Stopped using Outlook, apple mail is more than capable. Especially if you use gmail - try getting that to behave properly with Outlook on mac yuk!

KeyNote knocks socks off Powerpoint.

Pages is more than a match for Word.

Best of all I now have all of these on my mac for FREE!

Looks like the thread is full of Office lovers that represent the 20% super users of Office (excel in particular) that don't really matter to the real world!

Thanks Vip. This does help put things in perspective. A Power User will more likley need what MS Office can provide, but for most day to day things that aren't too specialized, the iWork suite is more than adequate and in many cases more visually pleasing. Pages is the one program that I want to see full capabilities restored to. It was a match for Word, but the new version has gutted some features I know I will miss. Still, it is an iWork in progress ;-)

 

[AdonisSMU]

User ratings are not trustable. They are affected a lot by fads, FUD and fanbois. Also, people tend to post and rate more often if they have something negative to say.

At least, profesional reviewers have to spend some try testing the thing and evaluating it. One review can be "wrong", or "paid", but I gave you 3 profesional reviews and they generally agree Outlook.com is good. Profesional reviews, even imperfect and biased as they always are, are still better than users opinion, specially if the users just have to give one random number and not explain their reasons.

Of course, even if the reviews are super great, if you don't like, you don't like. They are not God or anyting

I don't agree. At the end of the day the products server the users everyday. A reviewer is paid to write a good story. At the end of the day the end user is what matters the most. If they can't figure it out or hate it...no amount of good reviews will change the perception. I used it for myself. You put up a greatly reviewed product that was liked by the tech reviewers to typically are just sales people for the latest tech out on the market but when you dig a little deeper, people who actually have to use Outlook.com don't like it.

 

[brianvictor7]

I don't agree. At the end of the day the products server the users everyday. A reviewer is paid to write a good story. At the end of the day the end user is what matters the most. If they can't figure it out or hate it...no amount of good reviews will change the perception. I used it for myself. You put up a greatly reviewed product that was liked by the tech reviewers to typically are just sales people for the latest tech out on the market but when you dig a little deeper, people who actually have to use Outlook.com don't like it.

That is why I like those sites that have the professionla review and the user reviews listed separately.

BTW, While I don't dislike Outlook, for all its capabilities, it feels cluttered and I much prefer the clean feel of Mail on my iMac. Of course, it could just be that reality distortion field that my shiny awesome iMac emits when I use it

 

[xavierserranoa]

microsoft problem letting go of bill gates and bad transition. i kinda wish they'd be doing better so i could have a pc would totally complete my computer set up. this focus into mobile has brought them horribly down.

 

[Oracle1729]

The main feature that first made me want a Mac was so simple. Address Book. Apple made a choice. Contacts go in Address Book. Windows had so many different options that I never bothered to enter my contacts because every program had it's own contact database. Despite the platitude, choice isn't always good.

Interesting. That's a great example of one of the things I hate about Macs. I was addressing envelopes for my wedding and needed a way to format the envelopes. Mail merge is of course the answer, yet Apple's way I had to add all the addresses to an address book, but I didn't want my wife's uncle bob in my iPhone address book. So Apple's way was a huge mess. I believe I tried creating a separate user for a separate address books (how silly is that?), and even then Apple insists on setting up the formatting their way. So "Mr. and Mrs. Bob Smith" would be automatically generated from Apple's guess of the contacts.

Apple's solution was totally useless. Because it's their way or the high way and their way just didn't get the job done. I ended up using open office which made the whole job very easy. Modern Apple's can't even do something at all that was easy to do with MS Works in 1995.

There are so many things you just can't do on an Apple only because they deliberately take away flexibility.

 

[BaldiMac]

Interesting. That's a great example of one of the things I hate about Macs. I was addressing envelopes for my wedding and needed a way to format the envelopes. Mail merge is of course the answer, yet Apple's way I had to add all the addresses to an address book, but I didn't want my wife's uncle bob in my iPhone address book. So Apple's way was a huge mess. I believe I tried creating a separate user for a separate address books (how silly is that?), and even then Apple insists on setting up the formatting their way. So "Mr. and Mrs. Bob Smith" would be automatically generated from Apple's guess of the contacts.

Apple's solution was totally useless. Because it's their way or the high way and their way just didn't get the job done. I ended up using open office which made the whole job very easy. Modern Apple's can't even do something at all that was easy to do with MS Works in 1995.

There are so many things you just can't do on an Apple only because they deliberately take away flexibility.

Their way or the highway? Do we have to pretend that third party apps don't exist?

And you could have used iWork. Or just created Uncle Bob and then deleted him after printing. Lots of options here.

 

[MACRM32]

While I do agree that the Surface could be considered the best of both worlds, the whole tone of the argument (not to mention facts like sales and overall adoption) point to the fact that everything he's stated is, well, incorrect.

Moreover, how can he say with a straight face that MS knows how to design something with productivity in mind with Windows 8 around?

After seeing everyone at MS not get the Xbox One's bad reaction, not getting why Win8 is failing, and actually attacking Apple directly, I think they're the ones under the RDF.

 

[DisplacedMic]

LOL... besides, the Scientist is probably on Linux...

i'm a scientist, i use macs as does most of our department.

 

[Marc-SP]

I don't agree. At the end of the day the products server the users everyday. A reviewer is paid to write a good story. At the end of the day the end user is what matters the most. If they can't figure it out or hate it...no amount of good reviews will change the perception. I used it for myself. You put up a greatly reviewed product that was liked by the tech reviewers to typically are just sales people for the latest tech out on the market but when you dig a little deeper, people who actually have to use Outlook.com don't like it.

I use outlook.com and I like it far more than Gmail (that also use). Each person has a different personal opinion. Reviewers should judge beyond their personal preferences or needs. At least they should try... hehe
Anyway, you and me just can agree to disagree

 

[Oracle1729]

Their way or the highway? Do we have to pretend that third party apps don't exist?

And you could have used iWork. Or just created Uncle Bob and then deleted him after printing. Lots of options here.

iWork doesn't work...without the same address book. Exactly why you love Apple is why they're totally useless for that application.

As far as third party apps, I said I used open office to get the job done, the point being Apple's efforts to force their way means their way is useless.

And I had to do a shower mailing and then the mail wedding, so the Apple way is I add everything, delete it, and add it back? Hmm, the MS/OOO way is I create a DB for the shower, edit it for the wedding. Sounds sleeker than Apple.

 

[Elit3]

I was a surface hater, and in particular, a RT hater, and I thought iPad's were greatly superior, but since a friend getting Surface RT 2012 a few weeks ago, that opinion has changed. The OS on iPad compared to the Surface is clunky, slow, feels locked down and small (I get claustrophobic with OS's) and just unproductive compared to Surface. Windows 8 is PERFECT for a tablet. (I actually prefer android over both, but now I would have to say Surface for tablets). It is extremely quick to get what you need done, fluid and very productive. Microsoft is right (strange for them), Surface > All over tablets (keep in mind I was a W8 hater).

 

[BaldiMac]

iWork doesn't work...without the same address book. Exactly why you love Apple is why they're totally useless for that application.

As far as third party apps, I said I used open office to get the job done, the point being Apple's efforts to force their way means their way is useless.

And I had to do a shower mailing and then the mail wedding, so the Apple way is I add everything, delete it, and add it back? Hmm, the MS/OOO way is I create a DB for the shower, edit it for the wedding. Sounds sleeker than Apple.

You can do a mail merge from Numbers as easily as you did from Open Office. (Easier in my opinion.) And you can get the addresses that are in Address Book into Numbers with a simple drag and drop.

Regardless, you completely missed the point of my example. It had nothing to do with printing of envelopes. It was about creating a central database for contacts that other apps can access instead of each app having its own database.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Interesting conversation tonight with someone who's thinking of buying their first Mac. A key question was can you get Word etc for it? My reply: you can but Apple now ship their own versions for free. Their response was: cool! I'm getting a Mac.

Think Apple are on to a winner here...

 

[numlock]

What is specifically wrong with Pages 5? It is faster than it was before - I do not see anything that was removed in functionality and it now includes collaboration.

Same with Numbers - no functions were removed - in fact there were more added and it is much faster and more responsive than before - indicating that there was a significant re-write or refactoring of code in the back-end.

I see this update similar to Google Docs update where they totally re-wrote the code base to leverage HTML 5. After that was done - new functionality was rapidly added making Google Docs a solid set of applications.

I see where Apple is going with this update. Is it on par feature for feature with Office now? No. However it is improved and I would expect the next release to include even more features built on an optimized code base.

Everyone is thinking that this is the last version of iWorks. I don't think it is.

you ask what functions were removed but what about applescript support?

so apple is leveraging some new technology that allows them to do more and be more future proof?

when do you expect the next version to be released and at what point if in the future will you change your opinion if your high expectations arent met?

lets not forget apple was promising big things from iwork last june.

 

[DopeyFish]

I was a surface hater, and in particular, a RT hater, and I thought iPad's were greatly superior, but since a friend getting Surface RT 2012 a few weeks ago, that opinion has changed. The OS on iPad compared to the Surface is clunky, slow, feels locked down and small (I get claustrophobic with OS's) and just unproductive compared to Surface. Windows 8 is PERFECT for a tablet. (I actually prefer android over both, but now I would have to say Surface for tablets). It is extremely quick to get what you need done, fluid and very productive. Microsoft is right (strange for them), Surface > All over tablets (keep in mind I was a W8 hater).

I bought a Surface Pro last week, its hands down the best tablet I have ever used by a WIDE margin.

Just wish the battery life was better

(I have been using iPad as my primary home device since iPad 1 launch- also bought a nexus 7 and playbook for kicks... those were just outright awful)

 

[tigress666]

"Our competition is different. They're confused. They chased after netbooks, now they're trying to make PCs into tablets and tablets into PCs. Who knows that they'll do next? I can't answer that question, but I can tell you that we're focused."

Wait... what? Isn't that what MS is trying to do with Windows 8? A lot more so than Apple has done with Mac OS which is still a desktop OS, not a tablet OS with the option of going back to the old desktop OS if you must?

 

[Dave.UK]

Did you know that microsoft copied macintosh project to make first non-apple computer?

Regarding the Apple vs Windows thing, I think this is my favourite quote:

Steve Jobs confronted Bill Gates shortly after Microsoft announced the first version of Windows. "You're ripping us off!" he shouted. "I trusted you, and now you're stealing from us!" Gates just sat there coolly, looking Steve in the eye, before hurling back, in his squeaky voice, what became a classic zinger. "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

Classic response and really sums it all up quite nicely.

 

[Cyborg21]

Regarding the Apple vs Windows thing, I think this is my favourite quote:

Steve Jobs confronted Bill Gates shortly after Microsoft announced the first version of Windows. "You're ripping us off!" he shouted. "I trusted you, and now you're stealing from us!" Gates just sat there coolly, looking Steve in the eye, before hurling back, in his squeaky voice, what became a classic zinger. "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

Classic response and really sums it all up quite nicely.

I am not talking about Apple II . Apple I was the first personal computer ever made, just search Apple I one wikipedia. And guess what happened? A company named IBM stole the idea and started to make PCs. Than Apple created a PC named Lisa but it never get relased. And Microsoft simply copied it, they copied Macintosh and Lisa. Bill Gates wasn't a clever or forward thinking but he's richest man in the world beacuse he copied Apple.