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Absolutely, its not a one fit all solution - like most products!
Surface studio is a great design, but it isn't one that will or should appeal to that many people, at that cost. And the hardware outside of the screen is pretty backward for a computer that expensive (ironically, they garner the same criticism Apple often gets).

A Surface phone is a completely different thing. I don't see it doing much vs the iPhone and high end Android phones (which are already very good), unless it runs Android apps directly or some other way to get *all* of the first run software for it.

Well, we'll have to wait and see about the Surface phone.. there are no details.. just rumours. I don't think it would need to run Android software. If the phone is good enough, it could survive on its own. It would need very strong software from the start though. Definitely a tough challenge for microsoft to pull off.
 
Every single company that matters will - and most already have: ie the Adobes of the world. It doesn't need fart apps. My Cintiq doesn't have fart apps. This is product aimed at creative professionals.
If you want to build a general purpose computing system, a software and hardware platform for an entire app ecosystem to run on, then you also need the fart apps. Windows originally won the personal computer race, because it ended up having all the apps. Developers followed customers to an abundance of cheap IBM-compatible OEMs, who were compatible on the basis of running Windows on Intel. The WINTEL monopoly. This former unbreakable monopoly hasn't translated well into touch-based computing. There simply aren't enough devices out there to compete with Android. And your Wacom drawing board, that never was a monopoly to begin with. Simply a niche too small for the big corporations to care about, until pen and pencil became the vectors of competition between iPad Pro and Surface Pro. Now Wacom is pushed out of the lower end of its own market, much like standalone DSLR cameras and standalone GPS navigation systems. Even as they make better photos a lot of these professional cameras are replaced with iPhones. The same will happen to the Wacom Cintiq in the market of creative semi-professionals, iPad Pro and Apple Pencil will eat their lunch. The Surface Studio neither has a rich touch-based app ecosystem, nor is it an established tool for professionals. It's good at nothing, but looking good.
 
Actually I find the Note just as boring as all the other phones. Hoping for something a bit more exciting.

The glory of the Note (when not exploding) is very niche dependent.

If you're a reporter, or any sort of role that requires on-the-go note taking like writers and designers, it's perfect, superbly designed, and has no equal.

If you don't need that, it's just another phablet (a great one, but not especially magical).
 
Absolutely, its not a one fit all solution - like most products!


Well, we'll have to wait and see about the Surface phone.. there are no details.. just rumours. I don't think it would need to run Android software. If the phone is good enough, it could survive on its own. It would need very strong software from the start though. Definitely a tough challenge for microsoft to pull off.

They can do it. I suspect it'll follow the form factor of the Surface Studio competing with Pixel or the Galaxy line. And iPhone, of course. I think it's going to be something that supports their Office apps and other enterprise programs.
 
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Agreed. I'm thinking that may be part of the master plan.

1) Cut all the devices not working for them.
2) Develop an OS that will work for desktop, mobile and game console. Devices that are working for them.
3) Allow developers to make one app for any device.
4) Build library of apps.
5) drop new phone and hit the ground running.
6) make the phone compatible with Windows desktop software to make it compatible with millions of currently available apps.
 
You would be saying something completely different if that overpriced piece of trash had an Apple logo, wouldn't you?

As if Apple would ever make such atrocity!

A similar Mac 5K costs $2K, and Apple would be killed for having outdated CPU, outdated GPU, outdated ports, inferior non-professional ports (no Thunderbolt), etc.
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You clearly have never stepped foot into the creative department of the film industry, or magazine industry, or an architect's office. It's always Cintiqs, often with Macs.

It's a core leg of Apple's computer demographic. Microsoft is aiming squarely at the leg. It's not a casual machine, it's one catering to the creative professionals Apple has seemingly abandoned.

You're looking at this with weird consumer blinkers, and missing the bigger picture.

For the price of that POS, you can buy a nice iMac with a nice Cintiq.
 
With the love the Surface Studio is getting and the more "universal" OS that Windows is becoming makes me wonder if Microsoft isn't the sleeping giant. While Google and Apple are going after each other, Microsoft could be getting their crap together and really turn the market on its ear. Time will tell.

Their push into Universal Apps scheduled next year with Azure providing data and services certainly points to that possibility.
 
Who needs marketing when journalists do your work for you. Microsoft making more phones, brand change, news at 11. The prob with windows on mobile is the crappy UI.

Actually, as an IT professional for almost 20 years, and someone is forced to learn every commonly used OS as well as WP7,8,8.1,10, I can definitely say that the problem with the Windows Phone OS is not the "crappy UI" at all. In fact, after having used both iOS and WP together for many years (currently have an iPhone 6S and a Lumia 950 with WP10), I can say that I absolutely, without a doubt, prefer the UI of the Windows Phone.

Let me explain: iOS is indeed a clean and easy to use OS, with an equally clean and easy to use UI. However, the UI has become old and hasn't been keeping up with the times very well. It remains about the same as it was back when I first got a 3GS (some additional features, but not many). In comparison to the way you can make Android look, considering it's so customize-able, as well as the much more modern look of the Windows UI, iOS seems more like a Fisher Price UI. Basic, cartoon looking buttons meant to cater to children or old people who are out of touch with technology.

There is a reason why Android completely dominated and ripped all the market share away from iPhone. Now, WP is a different story. As much as I love the OS, and find it to be the most convenient (once set up properly), as well as the most aesthetically pleasing, the reason why WP didn't take off like Android, was that A) it tried to break into an already saturated market way too late in the game. B) especially with an OS that has as many problems as it does (underdeveloped), and ultimately and primarily C) because of it's horrific excuse for an app store, which had very little to start with, making it even less appealing, and D) because it's SDK (Software Development Kit) was difficult and convoluted to work with. Not to mention E) It's not nearly as customize-able as Android.

If they resolve the app problem, by ideally by making a new SDK that would allow for easy adaptation and porting of existing apps already written in multiple languages, allow for easy development work (making it more simple to use), perhaps offering something never been seen before in terms of acquiring apps, then at least the app problem would be resolved.

If they dumped a bit more money into R&D and application support, to iron out any of the bugs that are found, and quickly (it would take forever to get fixes for known problems or new builds, much longer than either Android or iOS), it would be more appealing.

And by releasing a more fully developed, fully supported, and innovative product all under a Brand name that is currently a powerhouse in the industry with "Surface", as long as it lives up to the quality of the other products under the brand name, they will indeed pull market share, and a lot of it, considering just how popular and successful Surface products are.

The Surface Studio is one example. It truly is a professional touchscreen done right. Haters can talk about how the dial is a gimmick, and perhaps it is under some lights, but considering it can be developed to work with any software, the imagination's the limit in terms of what it can be used for. I feel it is a great new tool for a professional touchscreen.

Going back to the W10 Mobile UI - The reason I like it so much, are the Live Tiles.

This is the single most impressive feature about WP. Live tiles, imo, is not only the greatest feature of WP, but is a feature that I sorely wish was implemented in both iOS and Android. Both iOS and Android have updated their icons over the years to provide additional information e.g. "A number in the corner of the icon to show how many unread texts you have", but that's pretty much all it does. A live tile is customize-able in terms of it's size and what it can display. If you use a super tiny tile, you get minimal information, similar to iOS, but still more. You can swap to a more medium sized tile (which is around the same size as an iOS icon, and you will get even more info. Swap to large for more, and even larger for the most. Depending on what size you want which tile to be, it can allow me to completely read most of my messages, emails, phone call information, news of any kind, calendar items, the weather, pretty much everything you can possibly think of.

What makes this so incredibly good is that it saves time. I can simply unlock my phone and look at my desktop (equivalent of looking at your first icon page) and get every piece of information I want, then put my phone back in my pocket. Super quick and convenient. To do the same with iOS, I have to open an app, get the info I want, close the app, find another app, perhaps flipping multiple pages in order to get to it, open that up, close it again, and the back and forth tediousness of it all, in comparison, is lengthy and annoying. For those who haven't had the chance to experience the convenience of Live Tiles, you may not care, because you don't know, but considering I have both, I can see first hand, side-by-side, just how much time I save using WP, it adds up over time. 20-30 seconds a pop multiplied by how ever many time I check for updates a day (say 10 to make it simple), times 7 days a week, times 4 weeks a month, times 12 months a year and it all adds up to roughly 18 to 28 HOURS a year, wasted on simply searching for information that you could have gotten instantly with Live Tiles.

Think about that. You can save an entire day every year, simply by using Live Tiles. They are indeed that good.

Now, don't get me wrong. Live tiles can't give you everything you want. There are times when the live tile just isn't enough real estate to give me everything, and so I will have to open up the app to get the rest, but still, it's great to have at least some or most of the info I want in a quick and easy manner. Also, a live tile isn't just one face of a tile, like an icon is, live tiles can scroll, pan, flip which increases the amount of real estate it has to display information without using up your screen space. For instance one side of a the weather live tile, may tell me what the temperature is, whether it's sunny, rainy, cloudy, snowy, etc., along with humidity, winds, and an hourly forecast for the next few hours, but then it will flip, and provide me with the entire weekly forecast on the other side of the tile.

Live Tiles are simply amazing. It sucks that other OS's haven't adapted this yet. Perhaps Microsoft has a patent on it, which if that's the case, I can't blame them for not selling the rights to it, because it's a game changer for me. I have determined that it's worth not being able to have all the apps I would want, or to even suffer with more frequently occurring bugs, to have the live tiles.

Apple really has to step it up. Ever since Jobs passed, it's like the company can't innovate. They need something or someone to fill his shoes and fast.
 
For the price of that POS, you can buy a nice iMac with a nice Cintiq.


Umm, no you can't. The closest Cintiq would cost $2800. And that's 27" vs 28".

I get the sense you might not know what you're talking about.
 
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This is awesome! I love what Microsoft is doing, they are poking the real sleeping giant...Apple :)
Just maybe this competition will get apple off its ass!
 
Actually, as an IT professional for almost 20 years, and someone is forced to learn every commonly used OS as well as WP7,8,8.1,10, I can definitely say that the problem with the Windows Phone OS is not the "crappy UI" at all. In fact, after having used both iOS and WP together for many years (currently have an iPhone 6S and a Lumia 950 with WP10), I can say that I absolutely, without a doubt, prefer the UI of the Windows Phone.

Let me explain: iOS is indeed a clean and easy to use OS, with an equally clean and easy to use UI. However, the UI has become old and hasn't been keeping up with the times very well. It remains about the same as it was back when I first got a 3GS (some additional features, but not many). In comparison to the way you can make Android look, considering it's so customize-able, as well as the much more modern look of the Windows UI, iOS seems more like a Fisher Price UI. Basic, cartoon looking buttons meant to cater to children or old people who are out of touch with technology.

There is a reason why Android completely dominated and ripped all the market share away from iPhone. Now, WP is a different story. As much as I love the OS, and find it to be the most convenient (once set up properly), as well as the most aesthetically pleasing, the reason why WP didn't take off like Android, was that A) it tried to break into an already saturated market way too late in the game. B) especially with an OS that has as many problems as it does (underdeveloped), and ultimately and primarily C) because of it's horrific excuse for an app store, which had very little to start with, making it even less appealing, and D) because it's SDK (Software Development Kit) was difficult and convoluted to work with. Not to mention E) It's not nearly as customize-able as Android.

If they resolve the app problem, by ideally by making a new SDK that would allow for easy adaptation and porting of existing apps already written in multiple languages, allow for easy development work (making it more simple to use), perhaps offering something never been seen before in terms of acquiring apps, then at least the app problem would be resolved.

If they dumped a bit more money into R&D and application support, to iron out any of the bugs that are found, and quickly (it would take forever to get fixes for known problems or new builds, much longer than either Android or iOS), it would be more appealing.

And by releasing a more fully developed, fully supported, and innovative product all under a Brand name that is currently a powerhouse in the industry with "Surface", as long as it lives up to the quality of the other products under the brand name, they will indeed pull market share, and a lot of it, considering just how popular and successful Surface products are.

The Surface Studio is one example. It truly is a professional touchscreen done right. Haters can talk about how the dial is a gimmick, and perhaps it is under some lights, but considering it can be developed to work with any software, the imagination's the limit in terms of what it can be used for. I feel it is a great new tool for a professional touchscreen.

Going back to the W10 Mobile UI - The reason I like it so much, are the Live Tiles.

This is the single most impressive feature about WP. Live tiles, imo, is not only the greatest feature of WP, but is a feature that I sorely wish was implemented in both iOS and Android. Both iOS and Android have updated their icons over the years to provide additional information e.g. "A number in the corner of the icon to show how many unread texts you have", but that's pretty much all it does. A live tile is customize-able in terms of it's size and what it can display. If you use a super tiny tile, you get minimal information, similar to iOS, but still more. You can swap to a more medium sized tile (which is around the same size as an iOS icon, and you will get even more info. Swap to large for more, and even larger for the most. Depending on what size you want which tile to be, it can allow me to completely read most of my messages, emails, phone call information, news of any kind, calendar items, the weather, pretty much everything you can possibly think of.

What makes this so incredibly good is that it saves time. I can simply unlock my phone and look at my desktop (equivalent of looking at your first icon page) and get every piece of information I want, then put my phone back in my pocket. Super quick and convenient. To do the same with iOS, I have to open an app, get the info I want, close the app, find another app, perhaps flipping multiple pages in order to get to it, open that up, close it again, and the back and forth tediousness of it all, in comparison, is lengthy and annoying. For those who haven't had the chance to experience the convenience of Live Tiles, you may not care, because you don't know, but considering I have both, I can see first hand, side-by-side, just how much time I save using WP, it adds up over time. 20-30 seconds a pop multiplied by how ever many time I check for updates a day (say 10 to make it simple), times 7 days a week, times 4 weeks a month, times 12 months a year and it all adds up to roughly 18 to 28 HOURS a year, wasted on simply searching for information that you could have gotten instantly with Live Tiles.

Think about that. You can save an entire day every year, simply by using Live Tiles. They are indeed that good.

Now, don't get me wrong. Live tiles can't give you everything you want. There are times when the live tile just isn't enough real estate to give me everything, and so I will have to open up the app to get the rest, but still, it's great to have at least some or most of the info I want in a quick and easy manner. Also, a live tile isn't just one face of a tile, like an icon is, live tiles can scroll, pan, flip which increases the amount of real estate it has to display information without using up your screen space. For instance one side of a the weather live tile, may tell me what the temperature is, whether it's sunny, rainy, cloudy, snowy, etc., along with humidity, winds, and an hourly forecast for the next few hours, but then it will flip, and provide me with the entire weekly forecast on the other side of the tile.

Live Tiles are simply amazing. It sucks that other OS's haven't adapted this yet. Perhaps Microsoft has a patent on it, which if that's the case, I can't blame them for not selling the rights to it, because it's a game changer for me. I have determined that it's worth not being able to have all the apps I would want, or to even suffer with more frequently occurring bugs, to have the live tiles.

Apple really has to step it up. Ever since Jobs passed, it's like the company can't innovate. They need something or someone to fill his shoes and fast.
As the MR front page new story shows market share <> profits. When people are compelled to use market share as some shining metric, the flip side is who is making the money.

That said I would like to see another windows phone. I could be swayed to get it as a secondary device. Having used windows, android and iOS I prefer iOS as my daily driver.
 
1) Surface Studio is not a mobile device so it's you the one who should read the article again in the first place
2) Surface Studio may have been acclaimed by tech press, but it's a flop just like the rest of Microsoft PC offering. It's a super-tiny niche machine at best, with an absurd price that will not translate in a good resale value.
3) as far as commercial success goes, the MBP you bash is the best selling PC by far and away, despite the high price, overtaking the entire Surface lineup 1.5 years sales in just 2 weeks.

He was just trolling i suppose.
Microsoft products are always a flop in real life and all users says in Windows Phone was good... it is terrible, not just for lack of apps, system is not well organized, support for standard is poor and it have much less OS features compared to iOS. Nobody really likes it, just trolls on Mac forums.
 
A Surface phone is a completely different thing. I don't see it doing much vs the iPhone and high end Android phones (which are already very good), unless it runs Android apps directly or some other way to get *all* of the first run software for it.

And if someone wants Android apps... why wouldn't they choose one of the many great Android phones?

I'm honestly not seeing how "runs Android apps" would be a big bullet-point for a Surface Phone.

It would solve the "no apps" problem for Windows on phones... but it was already solved with Android phones.
 
Windows 10 live-tiles interface looks very functional.. icons are no longer just a static image but display useful information at a quick glance - you don't even need to open the app or notification center or 3D touch.
Having multiple homescreens on Windows phone would make it much better instead of vertical scrolling UI.
Some combination of Windows live-tiles interface and iOS style homescreens would make it great.
 
I meant more in the app realm. Write one app it will work across all Windows iterations.

That makes sense in theory... one app that can run on every Windows device.

But only Windows PCs have a sizable userbase. And they already have plenty of software.

The other Windows devices are Windows Phones, XBox and Hololens... all of which have a tiny userbase.

So while you can write one app that will run on "Windows Everywhere"... it would most likely be used on a Windows PC.

But Windows PC users aren't clamoring for "apps" on their laptops and desktops. They already use traditional software like they always have.
 
So something that looks/works a lot like Microsoft Continuum, which they have.

I'd keep an open mind about a Surface phone. I would never switch from iOS to Android, but I might be willing to move this way...

I'm aware of Continuum, but I want something that can run normal desktop/x86 based apps, not just UWP apps or relies on streaming like HP's solution.

Plus if they made it run and behave closer to 'full windows', it could also extend the life of devices as updates wont be as much of a concern like with Android/iOS.
 
He was just trolling i suppose.
Microsoft products are always a flop in real life and all users says in Windows Phone was good... it is terrible, not just for lack of apps, system is not well organized, support for standard is poor and it have much less OS features compared to iOS. Nobody really likes it, just trolls on Mac forums.

Conveniently dismissing everything that challenges or contradicts your own views as "trolling" shows a somewhat closed mind.
 
As some one who used to carry the Apple flag in the Mac vs PC wars...

I wish you the best of luck Microsoft...
 
A Surface phone is a completely different thing. I don't see it doing much vs the iPhone and high end Android phones (which are already very good), unless it runs Android apps directly or some other way to get *all* of the first run software for it.

Microsoft tried that last year. It was called Project Astoria. Windows 10 Mobile would be shipped with Android Runtime and Microsoft would bridge system and API calls to its native environment. Then they suddenly axed it only a couple of months later. BlackBerry tried the same years ago, to no avail. Google has encumbered Android with proprietary services that aren’t available to the Android Open Source Project. It means that the crucial apps that many people want, won’t run. Because Google does not allow anyone but Open Handset Alliance partners to ship the Google Play Store either, Android apps still have to be distributed in proper channels provided by Microsoft, which means more hassle and costs for developers. BlackBerry tried that as well with Amazon, but it did not matter much either.

Developers can still port iOS apps to a native environment for Windows 10, but has it changed much? More and more developers are starting to discontinue their apps, despite the fact that they still worked. Why? Because it is too expensive to provide support and because the sales of Windows 10 devices have been declining sharply for a while now.
 
I just don't get it, Nadella largely kills of the hardware side of the MS Windows phones, and ignores the software side so much that Windows Mobile OS, is a joke at this point.

The mobile industry as completely left MS behind, and I thought MS realized this. Don't they see who BlackBerry try to come back and could not, the result will be the same.
 
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