Microsoft Confirms Multi-Touch Zune HD to Compete Against iPod Touch

[Journojulz]

Funny article.

Every product has its fanboys - we can no doubt be as obnoxious as each other.

All we can do is console ourselves in the fact we are fanboys with a great taste in toys.

 

[BillyBobBongo]

No, I was merely questioning the branding choice here: Zune HD. If the associated literature happens to mention that it can transfer HD files to a larger HD screen, no problem. But seriously, will the Zune HD be capable of playing HD with its own screen resolution? Pretty deceptive branding, if you ask me.

Meh...it's just a buzzword these days! TomTom HD anyone?

I happen to disagree though...720 is HD! Hell, Apple still pushes 420 HD trailers on its site.

 

[Ivan P]

It's easier and quicker to type iTouch than iPod touch. Do you complain when someone refers to their laptops as "MBP" as opposed to MacBook pro? Why not?

MBP is an acronym, iTouch is an abbreviation. The fair argument would be comparing iPT, the more common acronym for iPod touch, to MBP. And the fact is that I have never seen anyone criticise the use of iPT, no matter how limited it's use has become, just like I've never seen anyone (apart from you in that above quote) complain about the use of MBP. If you want to make it a valid argument then you need to find an Apple product apart from the iPod touch that somebody abbreviates as opposed to comparing it with an acronym. They're two totally different things.

 

[-hh]

A reminder kids. Remember this thing doesn't come out until Fall so don't go comparing a future product to a current one. With the way technology goes Apple will have a better product by fall I'm sure.

This is a very good point, because no matter what Apple releases in June...or through September's back-to-school promotions...there will be the ZUNE HD VAPORWARE to provide FUD in the marketplace.

seriously does it really matter to the end user where a company got its idea from.

Yes, it does matter.

the only thing that matter is that the user wants their product to work.

So we disagree. Unfortunately, your position is the classic "The Ends Justifies the Means" morality argument which brought us Waterboarding.

just be honest and give a simple answer...

What would you buy: an iPod touch as it is now or any other product which is exact replica of iPod touch and does everything it does for like $ 20 less??

Yes, I would spend the extra $20 for the genuine article.

The reasons why includes the fact that an extra $20 is a relatively insignificant premium (~8%; about the same as my local sales tax), and it is going towards providing a reward to the innovator who initially took the marketplace risk.

Buying his product instead of the rip-off copycat is an investment well worth spent, because by rewarding the innovator, that tangible incentive motivates him to continue to innovate, which I'll be a beneficiary of in the future, because there will be an improved product on the shelf to consider buying.

Consider it this way: if we didn't reward innovation, then we would all still be driving around in 1908 Model T Fords ... and they'd be available in any color that you want, so long as its black.

BTW, historically, you should be aware that the 'Tin Lizzy' was in production (nearly unchanged) for 19 years.

If we similarly go back 19 years...call it December 31, 1989...to look at computer innovations across a similar timespan, for both hardware and software, we'll find:

• MS-Office for Windows didn't exist yet
• Adobe Photoshop didn't exist yet
• MS-Windows 3.0 didn't exist yet
• The fastest Intel CPU was a 33MHz 80386
  ... and in the Compaq Deskpro 386/33, MSRP was $10,500.
• Intel's most advanced was the 25Hmz i486
  ...the chips initially sell for $950 each
• Thus, the Compaq Deskpro 286e retailed for $2700
• The Mac OS of the day was 6.0.2
• The PC OS of the day was MS-DOS 4
• PC bandwidth was limited to a 9600 baud modem* ($1500)
  ... most users settled for a 2400 baud modem ("only" $300)
• A 20MB hard drive sells for around $600
  ...Micronet's 1GB Hard Drive sells for $9,850 (yes $9.85K - this is not a typo!)
• Epson's LX-800 9-pin dot-matrix printer sells for $300
• NEC's 15" SVGA CRT sells for $1800
• and so on

The bottom line is that the only reason that we have better stuff today is because innovators took the risk to bring new products to market and we rewarded them by buying them.

Thus, to try to save a measly $20 is very short-sighted.

-hh

 

[Journojulz]

"TomTom HD" anyone?

Wow, Son. I love your new Tom Tom HD. Just look at those HD graphics, and its such a huge screen! Its just like being there.

Mum, we ARE there - that's the windscreen.

 

[Journojulz]

The bottom line is that the only reason that we have better stuff today is because innovators took the risk to bring new products to market and we rewarded them by buying them.

Investing in all our futures - too true.

You would think we would be praised for our financial sacrifice for the sake of progress.

And its not as if we can console ourselves in the knowlege that the objects we buy are attractive and well designed tools and toys for making life easier........

 

[JGowan]

35,000 Reasons to Pick the iPod Touch

Sweet Reminiscences

It's times like these that I recall the original Zune introduction and what MS said when asked why it fell so short of the iPod touch (it was modeled more in line with the iPod classic). It's a giddy little feeling that warms the cockles of my heart.

It was Ballmer, I believe, and he said something to the effect of "We're looking at this long term. We think that somewhere in about five years, the Zune will really give Apple a run for its money. But it's going to take about 5 years to 'grow' the product". I remember being amazed that their attitude was so lackadaisical about their product. It struck me so odd because the iPhone had been announced and Steve Jobs had talked about the YEARS in development that the iPhone took... here was Apple who developed for years in secret so that when they came to market, they would be AHEAD of the competition and there was Microsoft who just put something out and claimed that they would play catch up for the next half decade, knowing they were BEHIND from the beginning. Of course, they didn't know just how far behind they would be. The App store hadn't come to the iPod touch just yet.

Zune HD vs iPod touch

People keep saying the iTunes Store is the BIG reason why the Touch will stay on top... what about the APP Store? With over 35,000 apps available, it is simply no contest between the two devices. While I believe that Apple will not change anything about their pending update of the iPod Touch due this news, I believe the distance between the players will be even greater very soon. Honestly, right now, it's a little hard judging TWO products that aren't even out yet: the Zune HD and the updated Touch.

Can't wait to see what the Holiday season brings for Touch. Can't wait to see the final numbers for iPod Touch and the Zune.

On being No. 2

I think MS knows something that many people are just not grasping. There's money to be made being Second. Apple's proof-positive that you don't have to be first and still have $30B in the bank. What MS knows is this: there are plenty of people who simply don't like Apple. They're tired of "iPod", "iPhone" and "iTunes" and simply want to live in a world that they don't have to hear so much about it all. Hopefully, the Zune HD will provide them with something to do with their downtime.

If they can be #2, that's fine. They'll still make a little money. But not much. Apple sets the price. Apple can afford to sell a Touch for $249 because they sell LOTS of the things. What MS gains by being in the music player business and the videogame business (etc) is the GROWING OF THE BRAND "MICROSOFT". "We're huge! We're everywhere!" It doesn't really matter that they're second or third, because the average person is not seeking out that info. They just know they see MS's name a whole lot.

In business, you can be passionate about the product and not care so much about the money. You can care a lot about the money and not put much thought into the product.

These days, yes, you do see Apple's name a WHOLE LOT. But not by being involved in so many different businesses. But simply by being a few and doing everything they can to be the best in them all.

This sums it all up

Just found a beautiful quote DaveWorld from Zunescene I had to share:

"Once again Apple plans and dictates what the future will be. Microsoft waits, make guesses and reacts to what Apple or the leading competitor does. Tisk Tisk."

 

[BongoBanger]

People keep saying the iTunes Store is the BIG reason why the Touch will stay on top... what the APP Store? With over 35,000 apps available, it is simply no contest between the two devices.

(Oh. And the Zune is a blatant rip-off.)

Unless MS come up with their own app store.

 

[Journojulz]

Unless MS come up with their own app store.

Eek!

Wow - can you imagine the quality control for THAT?

-----------------------

QC - Does it work?

Dev - Sometimes. Occasionally it crashes and you need a hard reset to factory settings

QC - How often?

Dev - Well, its usually fine 4 or 5 times out of ten.

QC - Welcome on board!

 

[JGowan]

Unless MS come up with their own app store.

HOW? If you're going to put something out like that, at least write a little something that remotely backs that up. What you said SOUNDS simple enough. People have been chasing Apple's simple ideas for years. One little sentence and then runs away... sorry, but this is a forum for a REASON. To express ideas and put some thought into your comments. It's cool that you have a position, just please give us a little something to work with.

Back to the point…

They couldn't come up with a Music store that gives the iTunes any REAL competition even though all of the music companies are with them 100% to succeed. And you're saying that all they have to do is convince thousands of developers to write apps for them and they will just drop their hot new Apple App ideas, take time away from cashing checks and waste effort on something that is not proven at all? SDK?! Where is it?! Before the developers can write apps that have great ease-of-use for the end user, MS has to write an SDK that has great ease-of-use for the developers. Personally, I don't see it happening very zoon. Perhaps that's what Ballmer was projecting 5 years for... he should've said 10.

If they couldn't make it happen with music, why could it happen with apps? Remember, we're not just talking having an App store, but one that WORKS the way it's suppose to. Ease of use, remember. This is not something that MS is known for.

 

[Melrose]

I also don't understand the beef people have with the Zune software. The interface on the zune itself I honestly think works better than the iPods. The software on the PC I think is more visually engaging than iTunes while keeping the same functionality.

I've got no beef with the interface...

I've got (and apparently so do so many others) a beef with the fact that 90% of time it just wouldn't work.

I tried to install it four times and wasted hours. Three times is crashed my computer, and fourth it wouldn't even open. Turned me off. I wouldn't try it again. Ever.

 

[(L)]

A Cynical Post

Earlier in this thread, some people mentioned that this thing looks ugly.

Really? I thought it was plain as day that it's better than the old one that was clunky and poop colored. In fact, it looks rather sleek.

But, I knew it was Microsoft when "Marketplace" was cut off the screen. I would hate the 'Marketplace' anyway, just like I don't care for the iTunes Store, but it's pretty typical of a MS product to have OK/good hardware and have totally slipshod software.

 

[ratherbe]

haha.
well, there u go.
+1 on waste of time.

 

[kdarling]

Unless MS come up with their own app store.

They already have, for WinMo. It's just cranking up.

The submission rules and royalties are pretty similar to Apple's.

(Except that you can also still get other apps from anywhere else that you want.)

No doubt they'll do another one for the Zune, if it's running WinCE.

 

[applecultvictim]

Eek!

Wow - can you imagine the quality control for THAT?

-----------------------

QC - Does it work?

Dev - Sometimes. Occasionally it crashes and you need a hard reset to factory settings

QC - How often?

Dev - Well, its usually fine 4 or 5 times out of ten.

QC - Welcome on board!

hahahaha, that was fantastic, and so true...

 

[Journojulz]

That is where it is likely to fall down. With a fragmented market there will not be the same profit margins out there to develop something.

Its like pc software tons of tons of cheap apps that do a cheap job.
Its hard to build quality in that environment

And while the huge pc userbase gives developers a fighting chance - what is the market share of windows mobile?

 

[Journojulz]

Ye gods and little fishes!

I think the Zune software won't play movies full screen

just let that fact sink in....

No full screen mode for videos on your pc.....

......

 

[DougB541]

I've got no beef with the interface...

I've got (and apparently so do so many others) a beef with the fact that 90% of time it just wouldn't work.

I tried to install it four times and wasted hours. Three times is crashed my computer, and fourth it wouldn't even open. Turned me off. I wouldn't try it again. Ever.

I see. I didnt' have one issue personally. Sorry to hear you had a hard time.

Ye gods and little fishes!

I think the Zune software won't play movies full screen

just let that fact sink in....

No full screen mode for videos.....

......

False:
Steve Ballmer decided to whip one out at D7 today:

 

[Journojulz]

NOTE: talking about the zune player for the PC here - not the player

It letterboxes in black at the top and bottom, but any gaps at the sides are dark grey....

...and at the bottom of the screen is the big blue taskbar.

No right click options, no double click to go full screen, nada.

(And you can't scrub through movies either)

How do these people manage to get to work in the morning?

Or are the only ones still working there the ones who hadn't figured how to open the door to get out yesterday?

 

[DougB541]

NOTE: talking about the zune player for the PC here - not the player

It letterboxes in black at the top and bottom, but any gaps at the sides are dark grey....

...and at the bottom of the screen is the big blue taskbar.

No right click options, no double click to go full screen, nada.

How do these people manage to get to work in the morning?

Or are the only ones still working there the ones who hadn't figured how to open the door to get out yesterday?

Not on Windows 7

haha but I am at work right now, i'll look at my software when I get home (i don't really watch movies/TV from the software to be honest...thats the one thing WMP is good for.

 

[trekkie604]

Engadget's photos look great. Look at that awesome OLED screen.

 

[slapppy]

Yep. Looks like the rebranded YP-P3 DAP. Slightly modified to work the Windows CE hacked into the hardware.

 

[harshilk1]

This is a very good point, because no matter what Apple releases in June...or through September's back-to-school promotions...there will be the ZUNE HD VAPORWARE to provide FUD in the marketplace.



Yes, it does matter.



So we disagree. Unfortunately, your position is the classic "The Ends Justifies the Means" morality argument which brought us Waterboarding.




Yes, I would spend the extra $20 for the genuine article.

The reasons why includes the fact that an extra $20 is a relatively insignificant premium (~8%; about the same as my local sales tax), and it is going towards providing a reward to the innovator who initially took the marketplace risk.

Buying his product instead of the rip-off copycat is an investment well worth spent, because by rewarding the innovator, that tangible incentive motivates him to continue to innovate, which I'll be a beneficiary of in the future, because there will be an improved product on the shelf to consider buying.

Consider it this way: if we didn't reward innovation, then we would all still be driving around in 1908 Model T Fords ... and they'd be available in any color that you want, so long as its black.

BTW, historically, you should be aware that the 'Tin Lizzy' was in production (nearly unchanged) for 19 years.

If we similarly go back 19 years...call it December 31, 1989...to look at computer innovations across a similar timespan, for both hardware and software, we'll find:

• MS-Office for Windows didn't exist yet
• Adobe Photoshop didn't exist yet
• MS-Windows 3.0 didn't exist yet
• The fastest Intel CPU was a 33MHz 80386
  ... and in the Compaq Deskpro 386/33, MSRP was $10,500.
• Intel's most advanced was the 25Hmz i486
  ...the chips initially sell for $950 each
• Thus, the Compaq Deskpro 286e retailed for $2700
• The Mac OS of the day was 6.0.2
• The PC OS of the day was MS-DOS 4
• PC bandwidth was limited to a 9600 baud modem* ($1500)
  ... most users settled for a 2400 baud modem ("only" $300)
• A 20MB hard drive sells for around $600
  ...Micronet's 1GB Hard Drive sells for $9,850 (yes $9.85K - this is not a typo!)
• Epson's LX-800 9-pin dot-matrix printer sells for $300
• NEC's 15" SVGA CRT sells for $1800
• and so on

The bottom line is that the only reason that we have better stuff today is because innovators took the risk to bring new products to market and we rewarded them by buying them.

Thus, to try to save a measly $20 is very short-sighted.

-hh

I respect your opinion but I still think majority would rather save $20 today and buy the cheaper one then spend $20 more in hope that there will be a better product because they recognized product's inventor...

I completely disagree when you say that it matter to end user where a company gets its idea from...

 

[JGowan]

I think it was fitting that Ballmer was playing Pixar's "FOR THE BIRDS". How poetic.

He may look like "Proud Poppa" (SEE ABOVE POST), but I don't know how you can be proud when all you do is copy.

 

[slapppy]

I think it was fitting that Ballmer was playing Pixar's "FOR THE BIRDS". How poetic.

He may look like "Proud Poppa", but I don't know how you can be proud when all you do is copy.

Or buy from Samsung and redo the YP-P3 player.