Microsoft Debuts $999 Surface Laptop, 'Streamlined' Windows 10 S, and More at Education Event

[Oppenheim]

I am speechless. I would like to know if there are certain settings for me to get my devices to use this little amount of RAM. Never have I seen Windows 10 Pro using less than 4 GB. I will look further into this. Thanks for the notice.

You'd be surprised what modern operating systems can do with 4GB.

The CPU speed, architecture, multiple cores and memory bandwidth makes up for it.

It also uses a lot less power.

If you're a light business or home user or are on the go a lot, the 4GB option is perfect.

 

[apolloa]

Bugatti isn't making laptops! Bringing up Bugatti as if it's relevant or as if the MS brand is anywhere close must be a joke. Not sure why we're having this discussion.

A metal unibody laptop IS solid metal. Just like how gold watches are solid gold. As I was saying earlier, a car manufacturer would never make an interior out of solid metal.

Just because Bugatti uses the material for interiors doesn't mean it belongs on a laptop.

The surface laptop will stain, guaranteed.

Well, they are one of the makes who offer alcantara steering wheels, and you are the one who is arguing it's gross to do so. I called you out on it and as I stated, they will know a hell of a lot more then you about the material.
Gold is fairly hard, harder then alloy, not sure about magnesium? That's what Microsoft use, but you can have gold in a car if you want so.....

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, fact, alcantara is used in various applications where it interacts with the human hand everyday, fact, and Microsoft already stated it's alcantara is stain resistant, fact.

 

[Manatlt]

I have no "excuse" for anything, nor do I require one. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of this conversation. Even with that aside, here's a protip: Apple are not the sole supplier of cables. You can keep that one for free.

No I am fully understanding this conversation. The cable Apple supplied in the box is Lightning to USB-A. And people are complaining about SL not having USB-C, when popular devices still use USB-A cables such as Apple.

Come back to me when Apple starts including Lightning to USB-C cable inside the box and not separately.

Otherwise SL has not done anything wrong with keeping USB-A and ignoring USB-C.

 

[dogslobber]

Steve sure has a point, but at the same time I can't help thinking that you're not forced to use the touchscreen all the time on a computer such as the Surface. But it's there when/if you want it. Or what do you guys think?

It costs money to support a feature we might not use.

 

[apolloa]

Except macbook airs still have better specs (-display res.), a full OS, and the ability to run a full windows OS too...

Please tell me you haven't signed up for a Mac a Rumors account purely to display you lack of knowledge?

 

[4look4rd]

Except macbook airs still have better specs (-display res.), a full OS, and the ability to run a full windows OS too...

No they don't. MacBook airs haven't been updated in years, and the screen is down right crap.

This is actually a good machine, they just screwed up on the pricing. Should have started at $799, and the 8GB of RAM 256GB SSD should have been $999 or $1099.

The only thing keeping away from it is the lack of USB-C/Thunderbolt 3.0 port.

 

[Feenician]

No I am fully understanding this conversation. The cable Apple supplied in the box is Lightning to USB-A. And people are complaining about SL not having USB-C, when popular devices still use USB-A cables such as Apple.

Come back to me when Apple starts including Lightning to USB-C cable inside the box and not separately.

Otherwise SL has not done anything wrong with keeping USB-A and ignoring USB-C.

The cable Apple provides in the box of the iPhone hardly has anything to do with Microsoft skating where the puck has been on a new laptop. Keep on building that strawman though.

 

[jmgregory1]

They can try and compare it to the MacBook Air but in my opinion it's not going to be as good as a Mac. As soon as i saw this it lost me! I'm so glad that Apple isn't doing this, my heart sinks every time i see it.

Yep. I love how you need to have your free hand hold the screen in place while touching or drawing on it. Such a stupid user experience. I can't believe MS keeps pushing touch on laptops.

 

[Manatlt]

The cable Apple provides in the box of the iPhone hardly has anything to do with Microsoft skating where the puck has been on a new laptop. Keep on building that strawman though.

???

It's not just Apple. Samsung too. Google with their Pixel line. ALL of their devices still supply with USB-A end cables included. Cheap and popular thumb drives just moved to USB 3.0. Most Printers, scanners etc today ALL use USB-A.

It will be super dumb of Microsoft to ignore USB-A at this point. USB-C is the future, but we are nowhere near the point that USB-C is a must.

 

[Feenician]

???
It will be super dumb of Microsoft to ignore USB-A at this point. USB-C is the future, but we are nowhere near the point that USB-C is a must.

If it's wrong headed to be USB-C only it's at least as wrong headed to be USB-A only and it only gets more so with each passing day. Presumably this $1000 machine is expected to have a reasonable life span of at least 5 years. What do you think will happen to the balance of devices supplied with USB-A vs USB-C cables over those years?

In any case, and the reason I replied to this topic in the first place, is to remind you that it's only a cable and can be replaced for a few bucks. With a simple cable USB-C is backwardly compatible and presents Thunderbolt. USB-A? Well, not so much.

 

[csurfr]

The beauty of having a macbook is that there are lots and lots of case options out there, ranging from black (as seen in photo), white (as seen in photo), pink (seen in photo) and even green (ALSO seen in photo) not to mention my 1999, 2002, 2006, 2008, and 2014 ibooks/macbooks/pros all still run like champions. Maybe those people didn't need to buy a new computer. But worst case scenario we kept selling white MacBooks into 2009.

Fair enough. I do think I see a square iBook there in the front!

And Tallii, welcome to the forums.

 

[tann]

Touchscreen on a laptop? No thanks.

I would welcome it, it works great.

 

[skaertus]

Except macbook airs still have better specs (-display res.), a full OS, and the ability to run a full windows OS too...

Oh please. A MacBook Air has a 5th generation Core-U processor, and the Surface Laptop has a 7th generation Core-U processor. It is basically a laptop last updated in 2015, how can it have better specs than another laptop, of the same level, launched in 2017?

The Surface Laptop runs a full OS. If Windows 10S is not a full OS (I have seen no comprehensive test yet), it can be upgraded for USD 49. The MacBook Air runs a full OS, but if you want to run Windows on it, you will have to buy a full license.

 

[Manatlt]

If it's wrong headed to be USB-C only it's at least as wrong headed to be USB-A only and it only gets more so with each passing day. Presumably this $1000 machine is expected to have a reasonable life span of at least 5 years. What do you think will happen to the balance of devices supplied with USB-A vs USB-C cables over those years?

In any case, and the reason I replied to this topic in the first place, is to remind you that it's only a cable and can be replaced for a few bucks. With a simple cable USB-C is backwardly compatible and presents Thunderbolt. USB-A? Well, not so much.

Let's remind ourselves quickly. This Surface Laptop is aimed for students, hence why this laptop was announced in an EDU event. Most students will want USB-A, not USB-C.

Yes, the best option is for them to provide at least one port for both USB-A and USB-C.

We don't know what's happening in 5 years though. Only Apple has taken (half) risks so far with going all in on USB-C.

USB 3 was released in 2008, and it didn't come popular/standard until 2014 (I'm aware desktops/laptops did have USB 3 before then, but I'm not just talking about desktops/laptops).

I mean, until it is required that you must use USB-C to transfer data between devices out of the box, we will see little to no movement. I think 2017 still wouldn't be the year that we will see any popular mobile, media servers or any PnP device go "full on" USB-C and saying goodbye to USB-A.

And if I'm quite honest, I can still see USB-A products in 5 years time. But maybe not the iPhone or Galaxy. USB 3.1 is super fast in transfer speeds and it's just weird Apple has been ignoring it from the beginning.

 

[slwiser]

​

"Windows 10 S is a walled garden OS, allowing only approved applications from the Windows Store to be downloaded on the system while also cutting down on some Windows 10 features to provide streamlined security and performance."

I do not believe it... they promised this in the 90s with their "activeX" components and we see what a disaster that has been for security and system performance with every patch of the OS that is now required. They promised control of those components back then and were overwelmed by the number of ActiveX components that came out. The same will happen here.

 

[Feenician]

Let's remind ourselves quickly. This Surface Laptop is aimed for students, hence why this laptop was announced in an EDU event. Most students will want USB-A, not USB-C.

Yes, the best option is for them to provide at least one port for both USB-A and USB-C.

We don't know what's happening in 5 years though. Only Apple has taken (half) risks so far with going all in on USB-C.

USB 3 was released in 2008, and it didn't come popular/standard until 2014 (I'm aware desktops/laptops did have USB 3 before then, but I'm not just talking about desktops/laptops).

I mean, until it is required that you must use USB-C to transfer data between devices out of the box, we will see little to no movement. I think 2017 still wouldn't be the year that we will see any popular mobile, media servers or any PnP device go "full on" USB-C and saying goodbye to USB-A.

And if I'm quite honest, I can still see USB-A products in 5 years time. But maybe not the iPhone or Galaxy. USB 3.1 is super fast in transfer speeds and it's just weird Apple has been ignoring it from the beginning.

I mainly agree with you, it will be a continuous spectrum of change.

Two things however, with this "I can still see USB-A products in 5 years time" I think you are once again conflating products with cables. iPhones with lightning don't care whether the other end of the cable is USB-A or USB-C. Printers with one of the micro or mini USB port variants, don't care if the other end of the cable is USB-A or USB-C. Android phones with USB-C or micro-usb don't care if the other end is USB-A or USB-C. The products you've mentioned simply require a different cable worth a few bucks to be plugged into USB-C devices.

On the other hand USB-A cannot and will not ever have the capabilities of USB-C/Thunderbolt and putting USB-A as the sole connector on a brand new $1000+ laptop is inexcusable imo.

edit: I had accidentally submitted before finishing my post. Not a stealth edit.

 

[Steve121178]

It didn't because it made more sense than having someone use a pen to draw or write on a laptop screen. The Touch Bar is useful it just needs more app support and to mature which will happen over time.

You don't need to take your eyes off the screen when you use a pen, quite the opposite in fact. My point here just sums up how ill-thought out the Touch Bar is.

 

[Fabmac]

windows S
lord what a BS.

 

[kaielement]

Windows 10S is probably much more than Windows RT. First, if the user is unhappy with Windows 10S, it can update to full Windows 10 Pro, for free (as of now) or for a mere USD 49 later on.

The point of Windows 10S is perhaps to make Windows less bloated and more streamlined. The new Surface Laptop has a 14.5 hour battery life and consumes no battery with its lids closed. And it is also reportedly very fast and snappy. This is all probably because of Windows 10S, which seems to me the kind of Microsoft's attempt to replicate an iOS experience in the sense that it is fast, simple and less resource consuming.

If Windows 10S works, then the Microsoft App Store will be full of apps in the future. It is good for Microsoft because it will receive a slice of the developer's pie, as Apple does. And it will likely be good for the user, as Windows 10S will become a viable option which is faster and less resource consuming (including battery) than the full Windows 10.

If Windows 10S does not work, then the user can upgrade it for only USD 49, so it is not the end of the world. And if it is a failure, Microsoft can acknowledge that and make the upgrade for free in the future.

So, there is no real downside in trying this strategy. Windows 10S can fail and it is OK if it does. I think it is very clever from a business perspective. Much better than Windows RT which was not upgradeable at all.

You bring up some good points. I guess at this point it's a wait and see what happens situation.

 

[applezulu]

Touchscreen on a laptop? No thanks.

Bingo. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. This Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.

 

[slitherjef]

A few thoughts

Since the full version of Windows is a free upgrade (for now) why not just include it?

USB c only on new MBP = fail (or signs of exasperation)

No USB on this surface laptop, see argument above.

Double standard?

This thing as it stands without the full windows 10 update is more or less an iPad pro with included keyboard?

I was hoping for a surface book refresh to update my 2012 MBP non retina. Guess I'll be waiting a bit longer.

 

[MrX8503]

Well, they are one of the makes who offer alcantara steering wheels, and you are the one who is arguing it's gross to do so. I called you out on it and as I stated, they will know a hell of a lot more then you about the material.

....and they get dirty. Good luck "washing" your laptop.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/GV7W7u/

Gold is fairly hard, harder then alloy, not sure about magnesium? That's what Microsoft use, but you can have gold in a car if you want so.....

The mental gymnastics you're doing to explain solid metal is astounding.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, fact, alcantara is used in various applications where it interacts with the human hand everyday, fact, and Microsoft already stated it's alcantara is stain resistant, fact.

You're comparing cars to laptops. The superior material for laptops is metal, not fabric.

 

[MrX8503]

No I am fully understanding this conversation. The cable Apple supplied in the box is Lightning to USB-A. And people are complaining about SL not having USB-C, when popular devices still use USB-A cables such as Apple.

Come back to me when Apple starts including Lightning to USB-C cable inside the box and not separately.

Otherwise SL has not done anything wrong with keeping USB-A and ignoring USB-C.

They're both wrong. Apple should be shipping with USB C cables and chargers.

However, you can buy a new cable. You can't buy a new USB port for your SL.....

 

[Roobun]

As long as all you want to do is stare at the desktop.

Wow, I'd sure hate to own a laptop that consumes that many resources idling.
Maybe it's just a cheap laptop that's just designed to write up a college essay.

 

[ZapNZs]

So, should we expect Microsoft hardware to be updated on a somewhat consistent basis, like Apple does? Or is Microsoft just testing the ground to see what products it will keep or take away?

Apple does not consistently upgrade hardware any more compared to up to around half a decade ago!!!

For that matter, most Makers have not been!

In some respects, we can't really fault Apple or Microsoft for that...they can't magically poo new silicon...