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That's easy, since WINE is a subset of Win64 - it's easy for it to be faster.

Also, be sure to control for cache effects (launch the app 6 times on each OS, with a reboot between each test for example). Then launch 6 times in a row without rebooting. Compare.

Also, unit tests might have the problem of "not seeing the forest for the trees". A bunch of isolated tests might show one thing, but the performance of your typical workflow might show another. (Windows prefetch in particular will show up here.)

I've got to get more memory for my 12 GiB home system - it's spending too much time going to disk lately. RAMmap (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/ff700229.aspx) is my friend.

This is MSSQL 2008 at work, it restars/starts a database faster than server 2008 on its own dedicated machine. Its running under WINE for a little while until we get provided with an Postegre SQL bridge by the law software developers.
 
What debacle? The only people who were complaining were the ones with underpowered hardware. The vast number of vista installs were on hardware that had the vista sticker on it, and it ran just fine.

beg to differ. my mom bought a compaq that came with vista. it got blue screens and the like every few days. it was slower than molasses. now everybody knows that compaq makes crappy computers but not that crappy. she has since upgraded to win 7 and has yet to experience a problem(its only been a month) the only problem is that the cd was used to many times so it says its not genuine but whatever that a story i cant talk about on here.
 
Sorry, but that's a load of doo-doo.

Pretty accurate description of Vista, its marathon start-up time, glacial speed at moving large files, Superfetch (sure, let's lock-up memory so that everything stutters - my experience)

XP was faster because it's old and simplistic.
Yes, less bloated, less convoluted, and, as a result, snappier.

XP had (and has) an antiquated desktop graphics engine that uses absolutely zilch of the GPU resources unless you're playing a game that invokes DirectX or OpenGL. The CPU had to carry the entire load.
While even early iterations of OS X were capable of handling quality graphics with Quartz and Core Graphics, all the while utilizing very little RAM or processor resources, Vista was a Pig, by comparison - we won't mention Aero.

As for memory handling, XP was lousy at this because open applications you hadn't used for a while got pushed back so far into memory that by the time you wanted to return to that application it was all in the swap file and had to be painstakingly retrieved, usually so slowly that you'd see the window slowly being redrawn piece by piece. In Vista and Win7 this behavior has been eliminated.
Still, start-up went into extra innings just to load apps into Superfetch, regardless of whether or not you were going to use them.

Apps open quickly on OS X, and can remain opened without choking the system, thanks to fine memory management - this is not an issue. Besides, I would much prefer a rapid start-up, to tying-up memory for apps which I may or may not be using.

Starting apps in SL is slow, agonizingly so if we're talking big hogs like Photoshop or Flash.
PS5 starts up in under 4 seconds - hardly an issue.
 
This is MSSQL 2008 at work, it restars/starts a database faster than server 2008 on its own dedicated machine. Its running under WINE for a little while until we get provided with an Postegre SQL bridge by the law software developers.

I'm simply astounded that SQL Server would actually run under WINE - since simple apps like Office often have problems.

Since you say that it does run, I assume that you are running exactly the same version of SQL Server on exactly the same databases, on exactly the same hardware, with exactly the same parameters.

Any variations in any of those parameters could make a huge difference in the amount of work necessary to start/stop a database.

Not to mention the fact that most DB admins focus on TPS and other online performance measurements - not the time to handle the rare restarts.


Pretty accurate description of Vista....

Since you continue to criticize the last version of Windows, does that mean that you are admitting that Windows 7 is doing everything right?

Unless for some reason the topic is on historical issues - let's compare current versions of software. Horror stories from OS9 and WinME times aren't relevant - no need to knock either OS for past problems that have been addressed in the current version.
 
Since you continue to criticize the last version of Windows, does that mean that you are admitting that Windows 7 is doing everything right?

Unless for some reason the topic is on historical issues - let's compare current versions of software. Horror stories from OS9 and WinME times aren't relevant - no need to knock either OS for past problems that have been addressed in the current version.

Since a discussion of W7, in this particular thread, would be 'off-topic,' as the thread centers on the statement that the 'iPhone 4 might be their Vista,' we are discussing the problems of Vista.

Strange, that you would suggest steering the discussion 'off-topic,' hmmmmm?

In lieu of your most recent insult, one might consider it hypocritical.
 
I'm simply astounded that SQL Server would actually run under WINE - since simple apps like Office often have problems.

Since you say that it does run, I assume that you are running exactly the same version of SQL Server on exactly the same databases, on exactly the same hardware, with exactly the same parameters.

Any variations in any of those parameters could make a huge difference in the amount of work necessary to start/stop a database.

Not to mention the fact that most DB admins focus on TPS and other online performance measurements - not the time to handle the rare restarts.

The new system is on a virtualised cluster using RHEV, so performance should really be less. I can't notice the difference in terms of actual database performance, I was just using it as an example for Anuba. But damn, hell of a lot more stable than the old Win 2008/VMWare infrastructure.

MSSQL has a hiccup when running a backup under WINE, so Im taking daily VM snapshots instead. Crude, but changing to Linux is saving work a couple grand a year in Windows IT support. Its worth my extra effort waiting for this software bridge to be made when I have an extra couple grand at my disposal.

Some .Net related feature also refuses to work, but we don't use that feature so its a non-issue.
 
Lol

This couldn't be more backwards!

If you have an issue with Vista, you have many options, including installing a different OS.

Solution for issue with iPhone 4: Fatal hardware design flaw, replace iPhone with any other phone on the market.

Say what you want about MS, but even Ballmer wouldn't say something as arrogant and stupid as "just hold your phone differently". I'll hold my phone however I damn well please. Someone needs to tell Mr. Ives and Mr. Jobs that there are certain things in this world that plastic is the best choice for - like phone housings.

Say goodbye to your iPhone then.
 
Say what you want about MS, but even Ballmer wouldn't say something as arrogant and stupid as "just hold your phone differently".
Neither did Jobs - he said, "Just avoid holding it that way."

Someone needs to tell Mr. Ives and Mr. Jobs that there are certain things in this world that plastic is the best choice for - like phone housings.

There is a trade-off with any innovative design. Having the antennae on the outside increases reception quite noticeably, when compared to that of the iPhone 3GS.

When in an area with decent coverage, holding the phone, any which way, has no noticeable affect on the phone's reception.

When in an very low signal area, I'm willing to 'avoid holding the phone in a way which touches the tiny gap' in the same way that I'm willing to avoid holding the phone with my finger touching the lens of the camera while taking photos/video.

If this diligence amounts to too much vigilance, a case or bumper will easily solve the issue.
 
When in an very low signal area, I'm willing to 'avoid holding the phone in a way which touches the tiny gap'
And I'm sure a lot of people would have been willing to put up with that tradeoff if Apple had made clear from the start that this phone has an unusually sensitive weak spot in an unusual place. As Jobs pointed out during the press conference, other manufacturers have warning labels that read 'don't touch the phone here' or something to that effect. Well, maybe Apple should learn from them, then, instead of mocking them. Apple had clearly identified the issue in their fancy labs. Yet despite spending minutes during the Keynote explaining what a wonderful new antenna design they have, they made absolutely no mention of its unique quirk, and they released promotional videos where none of the actors held the phone in the recommended way. The uproar is all about the deception more so than the reception.

in the same way that I'm willing to avoid holding the phone with my finger touching the lens of the camera while taking photos/video.
Not the same thing by a medium shot or even a long shot. It's like comparing "don't drive this car into concrete walls" to "don't drive this car in the middle of a lane, always keep to the right". The former is a no-brainer that warrants no reminder. The latter is a weird industry first that no driver could possibly figure out instinctively.

Having the antennae on the outside
Are we talking about insects now? Is there a zoological aspect to the iPhone 4 antennas that we should be aware of?

PS5 starts up in under 4 seconds - hardly an issue.
"Under 4 seconds"? :confused:

Does that come with a fine print disclaimer like "refers to Photoshop Elements on an 8-core Mac Pro with a SSD drive, after you've already started and quit Photoshop moments earlier"?

I have a MBP 17" 2.8 GHz Core2Duo (June '09) with 4 GB RAM and a 5400 RPM 500 GB Hitachi drive. Snow Leopard 10.6.4. The OS X partition is 285.48 GB, 83.53 GB free.

Total load time for Photoshop CS5 (bouncing dock icon, splash screen, main window appears, "Initializing Type Tool" completes, PS is all ready for me to use): 82 seconds. Loading PS CS5 in Win7 Professional 32-bit on the same machine takes 29 seconds.

Let me repeat that: 82 seconds. 1:22.

So please indulge me: Which supercomputer classified Mac is it you have that loads Photoshop 20.5 times faster than mine does?
 
I have a MBP 17" 2.8 GHz Core2Duo (June '09) with 4 GB RAM and a 5400 RPM 500 GB Hitachi drive. Snow Leopard 10.6.4. The OS X partition is 285.48 GB, 83.53 GB free.

Total load time for Photoshop CS5 (bouncing dock icon, splash screen, main window appears, "Initializing Type Tool" completes, PS is all ready for me to use): 82 seconds. Loading PS CS5 in Win7 Professional 32-bit on the same machine takes 29 seconds.

Let me repeat that: 82 seconds. 1:22.

So please indulge me: Which supercomputer classified Mac is it you have that loads Photoshop 20.5 times faster than mine does?
I have the same machine as you, purchased it in July 2009. Photoshop is usable in less than ten seconds. When it's running from my (now pending RMA) Intel SSD it loads pretty much instantly.

I wonder if it's fragmentation of your drive or perhaps the number of fonts you have installed that's causing such a long load?
 
I have the same machine as you, purchased it in July 2009. Photoshop is usable in less than ten seconds. When it's running from my (pending RMA) Intel SSD it loads pretty much instantly.

I wonder if it's fragmentation of your drive or perhaps the number of fonts you have installed that's causing such a long load?
I have 312 fonts installed, don't know if that's a moderate or heavy load but there you go. I've seen worse. As for fragmentation, well maybe but isn't that supposed to be a non-issue with Macs? Before I switched to Mac, I listened to all these Baghdad Bobs in the Mac community who reassuringly stated that Macs are soooo maintenance-free and that they have a Mac from the year 1785 that's exactly as snappy as it was on the day they unboxed it and they've never ever performed any kind of maintenance. When the machine was brand new I only had CS3, but I don't recall ever having seen Photoshop load in mere seconds. Faster than CS5, certainly, but not by much. How can I determine if the drive is fragmented?

I upgraded to SL from Leopard last fall when SL was released (September?). I've done some maintenance such as repairing disk permissions a few times, two disk repairs, and manually deleted residual garbage from the library folders (root + user) due to lack of proper uninstallers, cleaned out the Safari cache... Otherwise I haven't touched the installation or performed any of those "archive/reinstall" or whatever they call it.

I rebooted and timed a few things...

Time for SL to load, from boot volume selection screen to logon prompt:
75 sec

Additional time for SL to load entirely (=from logon prompt to the moment that the hard drive stops chattering after loading login items, dock, desktop icons etc):
86 sec

Time for Safari to load (From clicking dock icon until window has appeared, the hard drive has stopped chattering and Safari is done loading the home page, favicons etc. and is 100% responsive):
46 sec

Time for Numbers (iWork '08) to load:
34 sec

Time for Flash CS5 to load (from clicking dock icon to application window and Welcome Screen appearing):
66 sec

Doing the same stuff in Windows happens in roughly half the time or less (Excel loads in 5 seconds, PS CS5 in 29 seconds etc), except the additional system boot time that happens after the logon prompt because Windows is loading the SuperFetch cache.

Edit: OK, I downloaded a demo of iDefrag and had it examine the boot volume. It says...

Fragmented files: 5062
Total files: 837170
Fragmentation 0.2%/0.6%
Avg. Frags: 1.02

Doesn't look too bad... right?

Anyway, sorry about the OT, don't mean to turn this into a 'fix my computer please' thread, but I just had to say something about the claim that Photoshop would load in 4 effing seconds.
 
The new system is on a virtualised cluster using RHEV, so performance should really be less. I can't notice the difference in terms of actual database performance, I was just using it as an example for Anuba. But damn, hell of a lot more stable than the old Win 2008/VMWare infrastructure.

MSSQL has a hiccup when running a backup under WINE, so Im taking daily VM snapshots instead. Crude, but changing to Linux is saving work a couple grand a year in Windows IT support. Its worth my extra effort waiting for this software bridge to be made when I have an extra couple grand at my disposal.

Some .Net related feature also refuses to work, but we don't use that feature so its a non-issue.

As somebody who is responsible for the operation of a wide number of different IT systems (hosted on various flavours of Windows and *nix). I find your assertion that hosting what sounds like a business critical database on a non supported host OS that you admit has backup issues just to save a few thousand £/$/€ to be utter madness. If you do run into a problem, the software vendor will run a mile once they see your setup, and a solution will more than likely wipe out any cost savings you believe you are making.

Also, I'd love to know what horrific state the databases are in after a restore using what sounds like memory&cpu state VM snapshots. How does the alien host OS know to correctly quiesce SQL2008 when informed that a snapshot is about to be taken?

Edit: I was interested in RHEV so I went and did a bit of digging. It turns out that RHEV-M only runs on Windows server. Surely that cannot be right, Red Hat's Enterprise Virtualisation suite, which is being evangelised by open source fans has a management console which only runs on BillyG's devil box? I see talk porting the code to Java, but nothing as of yet.

http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/rhev/RHEV-S.pdf

SOFTWARE REQUIREMENTS
Server : Microsoft Windows Sever 2003 SP2 (x86)
Client : Internet Explorer 6 and later
.NET 3.5sp1
Microsoft Windows XP
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 or 2008
 
And I'm sure a lot of people would have been willing to put up with that tradeoff if Apple had made clear from the start that this phone has an unusually sensitive weak spot in an unusual place.
Yes, an unusual weak spot for a great majority of customers, one which has yet to affect me, either.

As Jobs pointed out during the press conference, other manufacturers have warning labels that read 'don't touch the phone here' or something to that effect.

If Blackberry and Samsung have these attenuation warnings, I've yet to see them.

To date, we don't know the entire equation of variables and permutations which cause the apparent problem - in the Tri-State area, burying the iphone in my left hand is inconsequential.

We're still unclear as to whether or not this is due to a manufacturing defect, a software signal processing issue, or a tweak which can be applied for future production, accomplished without a re-design.

Many users claim that after the 4.01 issue, their reception issues have been solved.

Not the same thing by a medium shot or even a long shot. It's like comparing "don't drive this car into concrete walls" to "don't drive this car in the middle of a lane, always keep to the right". The former is a no-brainer that warrants no reminder. The latter is a weird industry first that no driver could possibly figure out instinctively.

Sometimes industry firsts need to be evaluated and tweaked before making specific recommendations - if a software or manufacturing adjustment can solve the issue for those having problems, then it hardly matters how you handle the phone.

Are we talking about insects now? Is there a zoological aspect to the iPhone 4 antennas that we should be aware of?

We really don't know whether or not the antennae on insects function in a similar manner, in terms of inter-communication, although I imagine that they do.

If this phenomenon eventually becomes verified, it is interesting to note that insects have evolved to wear their antennae on the outside of the chassis, not the inside. ;)

"Under 4 seconds"? :confused:

So please indulge me: Which supercomputer classified Mac is it you have that loads Photoshop 20.5 times faster than mine does?

Yes, under 4 seconds, initially. After quitting and starting again, under 2 seconds - on an Quad-core iMac 27"

On a 2.8 Ghz iMac, about 6-8 seconds initially, under 2 seconds thereafter.

Time for SL to load, from boot volume selection screen to logon prompt:
75 sec

Additional time for SL to load entirely (=from logon prompt to the moment that the hard drive stops chattering after loading login items, dock, desktop icons etc):
86 sec
Whoa! You might want to check out the health of your HD, or perhaps clean install SL - having a Cocoa app taking more than 4-12 seconds to open is unusual on SL, let alone booting SL, which normally takes 25-40 seconds. How much RAM is installed?
 
If thats true then why is a kernel hack needed to get USB working reliably?

Why is a kext still needed if you run a 4850, which mac OSX has drivers for?

Because even though the hardware is identical, the device ID's are not, and therefore are not detected by Apples kext's. Dell and HP like to pull similar crap in the PC world, trying to install the vanilla drivers from the OEM more often than not does not work as the device ID's are not recognised, play with the .inf file and suddenly magic happens.

This forum post here seems to indicate that flashing a 8800GT just works http://forums.hexus.net/apple-mac/133400-mac-pro-8800gt-upgrade-bios-flash-mod.html surely Nvidia are not supplying their special Apple only chips to the general riff-raff of PC vendors?
 
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