iPads (pro or not) are not for productivity, they are still enlarged iPhones and until we see different os for iPads this will never change, anyone saying otherwise simply never actually been productive or don't know what it's like to be productive.
I agree. Apple in it's stubbornness said you can't combine the two, but I have to admit, Microsoft did a pretty good job. There are so many advantages to the Surface (USB ports, regular apps, docking station I/O, dGPU) which can take place of your tablet, laptop, desktop - and that's awesome value. The iPad IMO is a supplemental computer for casual computing - no real I/O, which means no external drives, different apps to work with the same data from your MacBook pro. Etc.
You can thanks Apple's closed garden approach for that. It has happened, but its a rarity. Jail broken devices are more at risk, since they bypass the apple app store and give the ability to side load non-approved apps.So far I haven't seen a need/app for virus protection on a iPad.
I'd had Surface 3 for a year and sold it long ago. There was no good tablet apps. Google maps wasn't there. The pen stopped working occasionally even with brand new batteries. The scrolling was not smooth. OneNote bounced like crazy when I put my hand down to write. Sometimes the line thickness changed by itself. I had to keep setting the line thickness over and over. The hardware was good but the software was so buggy. If there had been the iPad Pro back then, I wouldn't have bought the surface.
iOS 11 with the new iPad Pros are just what Apple's been striving for for years, and they've finally figured it out. Don't think the Surface Pro really ever had much influence.
Remember thought too, I/O and drives means more security/virus risks. So far I haven't seen a need/app for virus protection on a iPad.
I love it, too. However, it will never be my only computer unless they give it a 15 inch screen and that would ruin it as a tablet. I know Apple is marketing this as some sort of replacement to a 5 year old PC. Yet, they still sell laptops, so they know it isn't the ideal fit for a lot of people.I love my iPad pro but it will never be a actual personal computer until apple allows native mouse support.
I love it, too. However, it will never be my only computer unless they give it a 15 inch screen and that would ruin it as a tablet. I know Apple is marketing this as some sort of replacement to a 5 year old PC. Yet, they still sell laptops, so they know it isn't the ideal fit for a lot of people.
My personal choice is to have devices that aren't compromises. The Surface has taken the point that people want one device that has multiple compromises compared with two purpose built devices. I do think that is a market, but I also think there is a market for those that are willing to carry 5 pounds when they travel to have the benefit of getting a 15 inch screen and a tablet with an OS built around multi-touch.
I do think they need to add mouse input on the iPad for those willing to live with the compromises for certain tasks. However, I don't expect it will ever fully replace my 15 inch MBP.
As a side note, I have a 15 inch Toshiba that runs Windows 10 and it has touch input and the keyboard folds back so you can use it as a tablet. It is an awful tablet experience. It works better as a regular laptop, but I prefer MacOS and the Apple ecosystem (messages, photos, notifications, cut and paste from iOS, etc.)
Personally, I don't have to work on airplanes, so if that is an issue, it has never affected me. I prefer using the iPad when I fly.There are always compromises. The compromise you are making is spending twice the cash and carrying twice the equipment of someone with a single device that does both tablet and laptop. And there are other compromises beyond that. One is that your 15" laptop is too big to reasonably use in a plane; and you can't use it at all during takeoff and landing. Another is that you have to sync stuff between the devices meaning your file isn't always where you want it. Having everything in one package has a lot of benefits.
Of course a 15" 360 degree hinged touch screen laptop is an awful tablet. It would be a nightmare to hold and use as a tablet. That is why I like the Surface Pro... its not too big and heavy to use as a tablet. The Surface Pro weighs just a tad more than the original iPad.
The "on the go" part of this is especially important. When I am "on the go", I am potentially going to the other side of the world for days and will need to continue to do the same work I do at my office; and with the same level of productivity. So, saying you prefer to use the iPad Pro would imply you won't need full computer abilities until you get back home? That is not the case for me, or for most in the consulting part of our business.
Your comments about people using the Surface Pro as a laptop rather than tablet; and the keyboard being flimsy. Compared to what? You are saying you prefer the iPad Pro... are you saying the iPad Pro with keyboard is easier to use in lap than a Surface Pro with keyboard? I would challenge that. I agree that as a pure tablet, the iPad Pro is a better experience. I should be or it would be a marked failure. But that is not what we are all debating here. Apple is positioning the iPad Pro as a "laptop replacement". The Surface Pro is better at that for the type of work that many do. And, I find the Surface Pro and type cover works perfectly fine in my lap. Its different from a traditional laptop in lap; but works fine for me. The kickstand gives a lot of options both in laptop and tablet modes.
No need for one. They already sell more and have a better product after iOS 11 settles in the surface will die.Where's the response?
How is the experience of working with Surface every day?
I use the iPad everyday in the classroom as a teacher.
Just because your work isn't doable on an iPad does not make it the case for everyone. Cute comment though.
cute reply, pretty empty though isn't it. What exactly DO you do on it, please.. don't tell me email and a few notes. You can do that on an iPhone.
No need for one. They already sell more and have a better product after iOS 11 settles in the surface will die.
I can login and manage my MDM site and devices, remote desktop to check on servers and workstations, e-mail, etc. For a sys-admin, you can do quite a bit with an iPad. Whatever I can't do there, I do on a Thinkpad. Have a Surfacebook sitting in the drawer collecting dust, and a stack of Surface Pro's that nobody wants. The T470 is a much better laptop, and the iPad is a much better tablet.
I don't carry them around, for what it's worth. I do my work mostly on a Windows PC, on the Thinkpad. The iPad is around in the evenings, when I want to do things that are much better suited to a tablet. I believe the iPad is better for that (for my needs), and the T470 is better for the laptop things (for my needs). The Surface (for my needs) does both of these tasks worse than either device individually (for me). I think we can agree to disagree.If you are happy carrying around three devices (phone, tablet, laptop), then that's great. Doesn't work for me.
I don't carry them around, for what it's worth. I do my work mostly on a Windows PC, on the Thinkpad. The iPad is around in the evenings, when I want to do things that are much better suited to a tablet. I believe the iPad is better for that (for my needs), and the T470 is better for the laptop things (for my needs). The Surface (for my needs) does both of these tasks worse than either device individually (for me). I think we can agree to disagree.
The business customers they're very slowly starting to piss off because of the many business practises they've been doing recently in regards to Windows 10 and lack of quality in Windows 8/8.1 that many had to skip. There's no need to talk about them in detail as I'm sure most of us probably watch the IT industry with a very close eye. It's a slow death for sure, but it's the big corporates who keep them alive (apart from IBM). SMBs/Creators have been jumping over to Mac's/iPads for a long while now. I feel Microsoft are not appreciating their customers and trying to bulldose over where they were strongest for a long time. Then take them for granted. I've never questioned whether Microsoft's huge play in business world isn't healthy or not. It's playing fire with everyone who is a customer of theirs at the moment.Microsoft's primary customer base is business customers. Are you thinking that is not a healthy business? You could basically say the same thing about Apple only focusing on consumers... they have long ignored the business world; and are now taking their eye off the ball for creative professionals and education... too markets they dominated in the past. Chrome and Microsoft are both making in roads there.
Display scaling? Give me a break. After so many editions of Windows (7 to 10) and huge adoption in post-HD screens early on; they've got it so wrong. These things hurt business/pro users. TBH, all users if you decide to get a +HD screen. I have to work around the issues as Microsoft products are part of my work life. I'd fall back on a Mac any day at the moment if I had the choice. Although I admit the fall back is getting smaller by the day with Apple's choices to screw with customers on the MacBook lines.Not sure what scaling issues your are talking about.
iPads (pro or not) are not for productivity, they are still enlarged iPhones and until we see different os for iPads this will never change, anyone saying otherwise simply never actually been productive or don't know what it's like to be productive.
The business customers they're very slowly starting to piss off because of the many business practises they've been doing recently in regards to Windows 10 and lack of quality in Windows 8/8.1 that many had to skip. There's no need to talk about them in detail as I'm sure most of us probably watch the IT industry with a very close eye. It's a slow death for sure, but it's the big corporates who keep them alive (apart from IBM). SMBs/Creators have been jumping over to Mac's/iPads for a long while now. I feel Microsoft are not appreciating their customers and trying to bulldose over where they were strongest for a long time. Then take them for granted. I've never questioned whether Microsoft's huge play in business world isn't healthy or not. It's playing fire with everyone who is a customer of theirs at the moment.
The latest Surface lines of products demonstrates their lack of understanding in where they're at. Consumers played a huge role for at least a decade (90s) and made them the biggest tech company. The original Surface was too expensive. The Surface Pro is push up to fit the Surface in. That in turn is a limited device until you pay more money to get what users really want (non-Store apps etc). Surface Book is a brave rethink but confusing device that really doesn't hit any target market. Then Studio product has nice, but doesn't include anything groundbreaking for content creators (nor future proofing tech). Even businesses find it difficult to justify them over OEM equivalents as Dell, Lenovo and the rest move much faster. The iPad knows where it sits and the iPad Pro extends the lift of the iOS platform within the tablet space (where everyone else has moved on and given up into hybrids). Yes, it's limiting but there's good software that's been built for it and keeps getting updated/upgraded during iOS lifecycles.
Apple took a different turn with regards to business. Sink the XServe/Server Software lines (probably didnt make much profit). Then come into the business sector with different product lines in iOS lineup (iPhones/iPads). That in turn gave them a dent in the business world (especially amongst the social media, marketing and practical function types - the developer/engineering side are catching on slowly). Yes, they screwed with their creative types with the lack of Mac Pro (modular Mac) updates or progress. Whether they'll catch up with their iMac Pro lines, I think it'll be limited. Especially getting a feeling from creatives out there publically that are almost willing to give Apple up for their next update.
To say Microsoft are making in-roads again is ignorant. They're making the same mistakes on system design. Software design. Business practises. Nothing making me as a techie wanting to come back to buying a PC or Microsoft hardware product for a long time.
Display scaling? Give me a break. After so many editions of Windows (7 to 10) and huge adoption in post-HD screens early on; they've got it so wrong. These things hurt business/pro users. TBH, all users if you decide to get a +HD screen. I have to work around the issues as Microsoft products are part of my work life. I'd fall back on a Mac any day at the moment if I had the choice. Although I admit the fall back is getting smaller by the day with Apple's choices to screw with customers on the MacBook lines.
The business customers they're very slowly starting to piss off because of the many business practises they've been doing recently in regards to Windows 10 and lack of quality in Windows 8/8.1 that many had to skip. There's no need to talk about them in detail as I'm sure most of us probably watch the IT industry with a very close eye. It's a slow death for sure, but it's the big corporates who keep them alive (apart from IBM). SMBs/Creators have been jumping over to Mac's/iPads for a long while now. I feel Microsoft are not appreciating their customers and trying to bulldose over where they were strongest for a long time. Then take them for granted. I've never questioned whether Microsoft's huge play in business world isn't healthy or not. It's playing fire with everyone who is a customer of theirs at the moment.
The latest Surface lines of products demonstrates their lack of understanding in where they're at. Consumers played a huge role for at least a decade (90s) and made them the biggest tech company. The original Surface was too expensive. The Surface Pro is push up to fit the Surface in. That in turn is a limited device until you pay more money to get what users really want (non-Store apps etc). Surface Book is a brave rethink but confusing device that really doesn't hit any target market. Then Studio product has nice, but doesn't include anything groundbreaking for content creators (nor future proofing tech). Even businesses find it difficult to justify them over OEM equivalents as Dell, Lenovo and the rest move much faster. The iPad knows where it sits and the iPad Pro extends the lift of the iOS platform within the tablet space (where everyone else has moved on and given up into hybrids). Yes, it's limiting but there's good software that's been built for it and keeps getting updated/upgraded during iOS lifecycles.
Apple took a different turn with regards to business. Sink the XServe/Server Software lines (probably didnt make much profit). Then come into the business sector with different product lines in iOS lineup (iPhones/iPads). That in turn gave them a dent in the business world (especially amongst the social media, marketing and practical function types - the developer/engineering side are catching on slowly). Yes, they screwed with their creative types with the lack of Mac Pro (modular Mac) updates or progress. Whether they'll catch up with their iMac Pro lines, I think it'll be limited. Especially getting a feeling from creatives out there publically that are almost willing to give Apple up for their next update.
To say Microsoft are making in-roads again is ignorant. They're making the same mistakes on system design. Software design. Business practises. Nothing making me as a techie wanting to come back to buying a PC or Microsoft hardware product for a long time.
Display scaling? Give me a break. After so many editions of Windows (7 to 10) and huge adoption in post-HD screens early on; they've got it so wrong. These things hurt business/pro users. TBH, all users if you decide to get a +HD screen. I have to work around the issues as Microsoft products are part of my work life. I'd fall back on a Mac any day at the moment if I had the choice. Although I admit the fall back is getting smaller by the day with Apple's choices to screw with customers on the MacBook lines.
MacOS has a lot of legacy underneath it.Let's be honest, the surface pro w/kb was designed from the ground up to be an all in one. I have to admit, it looks fantastic.
The iPad with keyboard aesthetically looks like it's been thrown together as an afterthought. It was meant to be a finger only device.
But as you pointed out, the OS is a big difference. If you can marry both touch and desktop interfaces correctly, you have a winner.
I'm not sure if either has done that yet. Microsoft gambled big on having one unified OS and it seems like Apple is sort of following suit.
Despite Tim's claim that each device should have it's own operating system, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually caved and unified both iOS and macOS
I disagree, my iPad can easily play any media I need too, I run apps like excel and PDF Expert. Yes, the iPad is more limited then the surface or other convertible laptops, but they are not limited toys by a long shot.iPad Pros are still limited toys. Sadly they're not even good for something as basic as media consumption since out-of-the-box they lack mainstream media playback acceleration such as HEVC and VP9 that the competitors have had for years. My iPads are only good for entertaining children when I have guests otherwise they just collect dust.