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I'd like to see both companies ditch the legacy and bring out new offerings without the bloat, modern shinny and looking forwards not backwards..! Provide a VM to allow for legacy software.

That is a tricky one. The problem is, all the features you find in "legacy" software were built over time.

iOS is very limited because in part it is new software (not exactly as the iPad is 7 years old now, and Apple did not push towards many features, but still). Windows has few tablet-only features because it was built as desktop software. Office for iPad is limited also because there was no time and money to make it full-featured.

My guess is, to build all this from ground up takes a lot of effort, time and money. Microsoft invests a lot of money in software as it is a software company first and foremost. Apple should do that as well, despite being primarily a hardware company. But there are Adobe, Corel, and other companies which make widely used third-party software that will have to spend as well.

Even if all those companies were willing to build a brand new world of tablet software, t would still take time to mature. And lots of time.

My guess is, we will not get rid of "legacy" software. Better to improve the code, but keep those beauties running. You cannot just replace Windows and macOS with something like Android or iOS, which are relatively new and simple, and think it will not make a difference. It will.
 
I disagree, my iPad can easily play any media I need too, I run apps like excel and PDF Expert. Yes, the iPad is more limited then the surface or other convertible laptops, but they are not limited toys by a long shot.

I have owned or still own, Surface Pros, Surface Books and MBPs, along with a new iPad Pro, and I'm amazed at the power, features and abilities of the iPad. Its a great tablet and I'm enjoying using it every day. I'm not backing away from my earlier words that a Surface Pro can do more, because it can. The iPad does not have access to peripherals like the SP/SB can, nor are the apps on iOS as full featured, but the iPad is still a great tablet. If I were to compare using a Surface Pro/Surface Book in tablet form (no keyboard) and compare that with the iPad, then the iPad wins, easily.


I keep hearing people say that the iPad Pro does great with Office documents. I heard a podcast yesterday where the host was advising a guy to get an iPad because Office was better on it than a Mac.

I'm not sure what kind of documents you people are working with, but if you need to do anything complex, then doing it on a tablet sized screen with limited ability to multitask is a terrible experience. I often need to have on the screen at the same time, 3,4, or more things to allow me to work on a document, be it Word, Excel, or Powerpoint. You are not going to convince me that this is a good situation on a device (regardless of the OS), that doesn't allow you to have a) a large screen, b) unlimited multitasking and simultaneous display of information, and c) at least for me, some kind of pointing device. If you are doing anything complicated sure, paging through a Word document to read it; browsing through a PowerPoint deck, or reviewing an Excel spreadsheet is fine. But if you are editing a spreadsheet with many tabs, formulas, etc;... can't imagine that is a pleasant experience.
 
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I keep hearing people say that the iPad Pro does great with Office documents. I heard a podcast yesterday where the host was advising a guy to get an iPad because Office was better on it than a Mac.

I'm not sure what kind of documents you people are working with, but if you need to do anything complex, then doing it on a tablet sized screen with limited ability to multitask is a terrible experience. I often need to have on the screen at the same time, 3,4, or more things to allow me to work on a document, be it Word, Excel, or Powerpoint. You are not going to convince me that this is a good situation on a device (regardless of the OS), that doesn't allow you to have a) a large screen, b) unlimited multitasking and simultaneous display of information, and c) at least for me, some kind of pointing device. If you are doing anything complicated sure, paging through a Word document to read it; browsing through a PowerPoint deck, or reviewing an Excel spreadsheet is fine. But if you are editing a spreadsheet with many tabs, formulas, etc;... can't imagine that is a pleasant experience.

Right.. And the surface is how big... Huh. Tell me.
Nobody's doing any 20 screen multitask on a surface in the Ipad price range and power, makes no damn sense.
I create massive programs simply using terminals and tabbing between them on system with small screen and 1/10 the processing power, storage and speed; you don't even need a mouse.

The biggest whiners don't seem to be people who actually needed to develop anything big, or know what's actually needed to do so.

The only things that's pretty terrible to do on a tablet is doing a lot of data entry.

Even those darn excell spreadsheets you keep touting most people manipulate them by creating equations and the like, which is fine on a tablet (only problem is the cramped screen). If your still entering big ass data on your laptop or Ipad, probably you should upgrade your ERP, or whatever system that produces data so it is not so hard to manipulate in the first place. This is what I get my systems to do.

Tablets change the way work is done and you got to adapt to your workflow to them to make them work best.
If your trying to do things in the exact same way as before; yeah, probably not ideal.
 
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Tablets change the way work is done and you got to adapt to your workflow to them to make them work best.
If your trying to do things in the exact same way as before; yeah, probably not ideal.

I may have a different take on this. I don't think we should adapt our workflow to the tablet. I don't need to use a tablet just because Apple or Microsoft or Samsung or Google or whoever else thinks the tablet is a good idea. I will use it if it fits my workflow and if it helps me getting things done. If the tablet is just an additional device that makes my work harder, then I am not using it.

The tablet does not necessarily represent an evolution or the future. The netbook was also an attempt to make devices that were affordable and that were supposed to take over the world. There was a lot of interest in them in the beginning, but then they failed. Tablets have been more successful, but the only one that has really taken off is the iPad. And still iPad sales are declining year after year. And perhaps I see why. While the iPad is an amazing device, people don't really need to have one. For nearly everyone, it does nothing more than a laptop and a smartphone can do, and still doesn't replace any of them. You may say, OK, but the pen is useful for creative designers and so on. Well, I don't think there are so many people working in creation that would justify a billion-dollar tablet industry.

If I could buy only two devices, those would be a laptop and a smartphone. If I didn't have the money for a third or fourth device - and many people around the world don't - I would not buy the iPad.
 
Not comparable
Ipad (Pro) better tablet
Surface Pro better (small) laptop

Yes, seems to be very true.

I just came out of an Apple Store. The new iPad Pro is just so great. The screen is amazing and very bright. Tempted to buy one. But then I remember how little it can do, and that Apple just will not make the software to unleash all the power in the iPad.
 
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The tablet does not necessarily represent an evolution or the future. The netbook was also an attempt to make devices that were affordable and that were supposed to take over the world. There was a lot of interest in them in the beginning, but then they failed. Tablets have been more successful, but the only one that has really taken off is the iPad. And still iPad sales are declining year after year. And perhaps I see why. While the iPad is an amazing device, people don't really need to have one. For nearly everyone, it does nothing more than a laptop and a smartphone can do, and still doesn't replace any of them. You may say, OK, but the pen is useful for creative designers and so on. Well, I don't think there are so many people working in creation that would justify a billion-dollar tablet industry.

If I could buy only two devices, those would be a laptop and a smartphone. If I didn't have the money for a third or fourth device - and many people around the world don't - I would not buy the iPad.
We agree that sales are down for the iPad. That being said, I don't agree with your reasoning as to why. The reason the iPad numbers are down has more to do with the larger iPhone encroaching on the iPad market, especially the iPad mini market and market saturation.

Obviously, a 5.5 inch phone will severely damage 7.9 inch tablet sales:

"In order to properly assess all of the recent changes to iPad strategy, a closer look at sales is needed. While overall iPad sales have been in decline for years, reports of iPad's death have been greatly exaggerated. There is much more going on behind the scenes.

iPad sales have faced one major headwind in recent years. This item explains a significant portion of the sales decline. It's not inferior software, weak storytelling, or even a longer upgrade cycle. Instead, the iPad's problem has been the iPad mini.

People aren't buying as many iPad mini devices these days. Excluding 7.9-inch iPad mini sales from overall iPad sales results in a completely different sales picture. As seen in Exhibit 3, iPad mini unit sales have declined 70% after peaking in 4Q13 and 1Q14. The product's value proposition has been permanently reduced due to larger iPhones. Apple has clearly experienced Peak iPad Mini. It's not that the iPad mini form factor is going away, but rather that it will play a smaller role going forward.

iPad mini sales weakness has masked stronger sales trends for larger iPads. In what will come as a surprise to many, the iPad Air 2 has been the best-selling iPad to date. In addition, more than half of people buying an iPad Air 2 were new to iPad. These are very promising signs for the iPad business. Not only are large screen (9.7-inch and 12.9-inch) iPad sales relatively unchanged over the past four years, but they actually have increased year-over-year this past holiday quarter. The iPad Pro line played a major role in this sales rebound."


1490807471114

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/3/29/apple-is-pushing-ipad-like-never-before



When people have a choice of buying a new product, they typically prefer buying phones. After that, I don't think it comes down to only owning two devices and having to select an iPad or a laptop for most Apple customers. It comes down to their upgrade path and new sales. If people have a 3 year old computer and feel that an iPad will offer them more bang for the buck than a new laptop, they may spend money on a tablet this year and put that laptop upgrade off another year or two. Personally, I upgrade laptops about every 5 years, iPads about every 3, and iPhones almost every year (though I have held out as many as 3 years). I make my decision to upgrade based on how the old and new compare and how that affects what I do on each platform.

As I have said before, the Surface has too many compromises to make it worthwhile for the way I use my laptop and iPad. Personally, I would rather have three devices that are purpose built. For people that can only afford two devices, there is a strong chance they are buying a phone and a cheap laptop. The Surface isn't exactly a frugal purchase.
 
We agree that sales are down for the iPad. That being said, I don't agree with your reasoning as to why. The reason the iPad numbers are down has more to do with the larger iPhone encroaching on the iPad market, especially the iPad mini market and market saturation.

Obviously, a 5.5 inch phone will severely damage 7.9 inch tablet sales:

"In order to properly assess all of the recent changes to iPad strategy, a closer look at sales is needed. While overall iPad sales have been in decline for years, reports of iPad's death have been greatly exaggerated. There is much more going on behind the scenes.

iPad sales have faced one major headwind in recent years. This item explains a significant portion of the sales decline. It's not inferior software, weak storytelling, or even a longer upgrade cycle. Instead, the iPad's problem has been the iPad mini.

People aren't buying as many iPad mini devices these days. Excluding 7.9-inch iPad mini sales from overall iPad sales results in a completely different sales picture. As seen in Exhibit 3, iPad mini unit sales have declined 70% after peaking in 4Q13 and 1Q14. The product's value proposition has been permanently reduced due to larger iPhones. Apple has clearly experienced Peak iPad Mini. It's not that the iPad mini form factor is going away, but rather that it will play a smaller role going forward.

iPad mini sales weakness has masked stronger sales trends for larger iPads. In what will come as a surprise to many, the iPad Air 2 has been the best-selling iPad to date. In addition, more than half of people buying an iPad Air 2 were new to iPad. These are very promising signs for the iPad business. Not only are large screen (9.7-inch and 12.9-inch) iPad sales relatively unchanged over the past four years, but they actually have increased year-over-year this past holiday quarter. The iPad Pro line played a major role in this sales rebound."


1490807471114

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2017/3/29/apple-is-pushing-ipad-like-never-before



When people have a choice of buying a new product, they typically prefer buying phones. After that, I don't think it comes down to only owning two devices and having to select an iPad or a laptop for most Apple customers. It comes down to their upgrade path and new sales. If people have a 3 year old computer and feel that an iPad will offer them more bang for the buck than a new laptop, they may spend money on a tablet this year and put that laptop upgrade off another year or two. Personally, I upgrade laptops about every 5 years, iPads about every 3, and iPhones almost every year (though I have held out as many as 3 years). I make my decision to upgrade based on how the old and new compare and how that affects what I do on each platform.

As I have said before, the Surface has too many compromises to make it worthwhile for the way I use my laptop and iPad. Personally, I would rather have three devices that are purpose built. For people that can only afford two devices, there is a strong chance they are buying a phone and a cheap laptop. The Surface isn't exactly a frugal purchase.

That is a good analysis and I had not yet the chance to see the numbers.

The smaller iPads really declined a lot in sales. But the larger models also suffered a decline, as they peaked in 2012. Sales seem to be flat in the last quarters (perhaps with small increases), but they were not where they were in the past.

Sales are of course big and the iPad is a sucess and there is a market for that. Huge sales, successful device, no doubt about it.

But I also see a loss of opportunity for Apple here. The iPad could have taken more of the PC market. As you said, people who can afford only two devices will buy a phone and a cheap laptop. But they could buy an iPad instead.

The way I see it, the iPad was Apple's answer to the netbook. So, it could be the device to take over the world, especially countries in which most of the population cannot afford a Mac. China, India, Russia, Brazil, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Thailand, Egypt, and so on. Billions of people. Huge market. But people are still buying cheap laptops instead of iPads.

Apple is actively advertising the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, and that may be the purpose. But the iPad has yet to become this laptop replacement as it does not do everything one would expect from a laptop. You may say, the iPad is a different device, a tablet, so you should not expect it to replace a laptop. Well, in this case, Apple should not expect to take over the laptop market with the iPad, which could well be its intention.

As for the Surface, I see it having a different purpose. It is more of a showcase, showing off that Windows machines can compete with Macs. But Microsoft's business is still software and it does not want the Surface to be huge as it does not want to cannibalize sales of companies such as Dell or HP.

But Microsoft is pushing for cheaper laptops, although it does not make them. And Windows on ARM can become a way to cheaper and more premium devices.
 
Right.. And the surface is how big... Huh. Tell me.
Nobody's doing any 20 screen multitask on a surface in the Ipad price range and power, makes no damn sense.
I create massive programs simply using terminals and tabbing between them on system with small screen and 1/10 the processing power, storage and speed; you don't even need a mouse.

The biggest whiners don't seem to be people who actually needed to develop anything big, or know what's actually needed to do so.

The only things that's pretty terrible to do on a tablet is doing a lot of data entry.

Even those darn excell spreadsheets you keep touting most people manipulate them by creating equations and the like, which is fine on a tablet (only problem is the cramped screen). If your still entering big ass data on your laptop or Ipad, probably you should upgrade your ERP, or whatever system that produces data so it is not so hard to manipulate in the first place. This is what I get my systems to do.

Tablets change the way work is done and you got to adapt to your workflow to them to make them work best.
If your trying to do things in the exact same way as before; yeah, probably not ideal.

I think you are missing the point. I'm not suggesting someone should make a large display tablet. I can connect a large display to my Surface Pro. You can not do that with an iPad Pro. My Surface Pro is my main computer and my tablet. Its all in there. This weekend I had it downstairs and used it in tablet mode quite a bit, and this morning its docked on my desk. All my "stuff" is in it all the time.

As for cost, I never said anything about trying to be low cost. The Surface Pro that I have is certainly way cheaper than a comparable MacBook plus an iPad Pro. And there are a half dozen other good comparable Surface Pro "clones" from Lenovo, HP, Dell, Samsung, Acer, etc..

Your suggestion about workflow implies that because you have an iPad you are going to change the way you work to adapt to it? Hmm... I'd rather have a device that lets me adapt it to the way I want to work instead of the other way around. Microsoft gives you touch screen, keyboard, pen, pointing device, and the dial as input mechanisms on one device. The user can choose to use them how they want, and adapt to their needs at different times. With Apple, they give you 2 on one device and 2 on another.

Apple is just stubborn on this whole thing. They have dug in on the idea that a user should not have a touch screen laptop, and they should not have a full function OS on a tablet, and that creates a world that is very different from the one that Microsoft sees. Its just a different approach, and I'm not a fan of Apple's choice here.

That is a good analysis and I had not yet the chance to see the numbers.

The smaller iPads really declined a lot in sales. But the larger models also suffered a decline, as they peaked in 2012. Sales seem to be flat in the last quarters (perhaps with small increases), but they were not where they were in the past.

Sales are of course big and the iPad is a sucess and there is a market for that. Huge sales, successful device, no doubt about it.

But I also see a loss of opportunity for Apple here. The iPad could have taken more of the PC market. As you said, people who can afford only two devices will buy a phone and a cheap laptop. But they could buy an iPad instead.

The way I see it, the iPad was Apple's answer to the netbook. So, it could be the device to take over the world, especially countries in which most of the population cannot afford a Mac. China, India, Russia, Brazil, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Thailand, Egypt, and so on. Billions of people. Huge market. But people are still buying cheap laptops instead of iPads.

Apple is actively advertising the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, and that may be the purpose. But the iPad has yet to become this laptop replacement as it does not do everything one would expect from a laptop. You may say, the iPad is a different device, a tablet, so you should not expect it to replace a laptop. Well, in this case, Apple should not expect to take over the laptop market with the iPad, which could well be its intention.

As for the Surface, I see it having a different purpose. It is more of a showcase, showing off that Windows machines can compete with Macs. But Microsoft's business is still software and it does not want the Surface to be huge as it does not want to cannibalize sales of companies such as Dell or HP.

But Microsoft is pushing for cheaper laptops, although it does not make them. And Windows on ARM can become a way to cheaper and more premium devices.

If you look at the last several quarters of IDC data, the only part of the tablet market this is growing and expected to grow in the future is the "detachable" keyboard market. Whether you think the iPad Pro is in the category or not, I personally don't. This is the market that the Surface family really created. It will probably not
 
Sales are of course big and the iPad is a sucess and there is a market for that. Huge sales, successful device, no doubt about it.

But I also see a loss of opportunity for Apple here. The iPad could have taken more of the PC market. As you said, people who can afford only two devices will buy a phone and a cheap laptop. But they could buy an iPad instead.

The way I see it, the iPad was Apple's answer to the netbook. So, it could be the device to take over the world, especially countries in which most of the population cannot afford a Mac. China, India, Russia, Brazil, Pakistan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Thailand, Egypt, and so on. Billions of people. Huge market. But people are still buying cheap laptops instead of iPads.

Apple is actively advertising the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, and that may be the purpose. But the iPad has yet to become this laptop replacement as it does not do everything one would expect from a laptop. You may say, the iPad is a different device, a tablet, so you should not expect it to replace a laptop. Well, in this case, Apple should not expect to take over the laptop market with the iPad, which could well be its intention.
Personally, I think Apple marketing it as a PC replacement is the real problem. It gives way too much unnecessary fuel to critics. It will eventually get there (if that is where they really want to go - which would be a disappointment), but they should just market it for what it is, which is the best tablet on the market. Marketing it as a PC replacement is a bit of a joke. I love the iPad, especially the form factor and iOS, but it doesn't replace the Mac. Last I checked, Apple still sells Macs, so they realize that many people will want something that does more.

I know a lot of people with iPads. None of them are using it as a PC replacement. Most of them, including myself, use it a lot more than their PC, but it isn't an only computer for any household for people I know. Most people that see their computer as the third device, just keep their computers longer than they used to. Also, a lot of people will have one "family" PC and multiple "individual" iPads in the house. It is why so many more iPads are sold than Macs and why they sell more of them than Dell sells computers.

Apple has sold 350 million iPads in the short amount of time it has been on the market. If Apple wants to get into the "netbook" market, they need a much cheaper alternative. An iPad costs $329. You could get a netbook for $150 or less. I think Apple wanted to replace the netbook for people that wanted to check email and look at the web, but with a much better experience ("the internet in your hands"), which it did. I don't think they considered it to be an alternative to the netbook for people that have a low income. A Chromebook or cheap Windows laptop feeds that market.

As a side note, I believe the iPad already replaces PCs for a lot of people. However, that doesn't make it a "PC Replacement" because it is limited compared to a Mac/PC. A replacement needs to do everything the old thing did and more. The iPad doesn't do that. It is a new way of computing and makes a lot of stuff we do on PCs easier, more comfortable, etc. However, until it runs Final Cut, Photoshop, etc. not sure how it can replace the Mac.

It is like calling a motorcycle a car replacement. It isn't, but there are a lot of people that can live with just a motorcycle. Rather than putting another 2 wheels on the motorcycle and making it a car, why not just try to make the best motorcycle? In this way, the Surface is a motorcycle with a sidecar and the iPad is still a motorcycle. Yes, the sidecar comes in handy for some people, but it isn't as good at being a two wheel motorcycle for mobility or as good as a car for transport. It is a compromise that some are willing to make, but it isn't ideal for a lot of people.
 
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I'm of the old school belief that Desktop computers are the most efficient machines for productivity (and gaming).

Tablets are among the best machines for media consumption. (Pro or not Pro)

Laptops are the best machines for combining portable productivity and media consumption- but aren't the best at either, ideal for students and certain work situations.

Combining these categories gives you a half-baked device that is a jack of all trades master of none- better to have a variety of machines that suit different purposes.
 
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I'm of the old school belief that Desktop computers are the most efficient machines for productivity (and gaming).

Tablets are among the best machines for media consumption. (Pro or not Pro)

Laptops are the best machines for combining portable productivity and media consumption- but aren't the best at either, ideal for students and certain work situations.

Combining these categories gives you a half-baked machine that is a jack of all trades master of none- better to have a multitude of machines that fit different purposes.

Taking gaming off the table, how is a portable computer that runs an Intel Core i5/i7 processor a half baked alternative to a desktop computer? My desktop computer is a Mac Mini that has basically the same technology in it that my Surface Pro does. When I connect them both to 4K display and bluetooth keyboard/mouse, there is virtually no difference in performance, except that the SP is actually faster (newer) and I have a second pen enabled touch display to compliment the other. Not only is it NOT "half baked", but it provides a lot of additional productivity features, and when I go out the door I can carry it with me. If I were to have a desktop AND a laptop, now I have to deal with keeping files sync'd.
 
If the iPad Pro was a response to the Surface Pro, it was a terrible response. One runs a desktop class OS and the other a phone OS. Consequently, if the Surface Pro was a response to the original iPad, it was also a terrible response. I wanted an iPad Pro...until they revealed it ran iOS. Then I bought a Surface Pro 3.
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Apple is just stubborn on this whole thing. They have dug in on the idea that a user should not have a touch screen laptop, and they should not have a full function OS on a tablet, and that creates a world that is very different from the one that Microsoft sees. Its just a different approach, and I'm not a fan of Apple's choice here.

Agreed. Apple could make a tablet that is far better than the Surface Pro and boosts superior functionality, but they choose not to. I would much prefer to have an Apple tablet hybrid, but one that isn't primarily a giant iPhone. If Microsoft can put Windows 10 Professional on the Surface Pro, then Apple can put macOS on the iPad Pro. It's a crying shame they don't as that would be an amazing laptop replacement!
 
iPad Pro is only getting the market because it's limited and easier to use... just like any iOS is. If people never cared about that, they'd be on a Surface.
 
Agreed. Apple could make a tablet that is far better than the Surface Pro and boosts superior functionality, but they choose not to. I would much prefer to have an Apple tablet hybrid, but one that isn't primarily a giant iPhone. If Microsoft can put Windows 10 Professional on the Surface Pro, then Apple can put macOS on the iPad Pro. It's a crying shame they don't as that would be an amazing laptop replacement!

Apple likes to use the word "magical". An iPad Pro form factor device running a touch enabled version of MacOS would be magical. And there is really nothing stopping Apple from creating it except for Apple. The same applies to an iMac that was touch enabled along the lines of Surface Studio.
 
Apple likes to use the word "magical". An iPad Pro form factor device running a touch enabled version of MacOS would be magical. And there is really nothing stopping Apple from creating it except for Apple. The same applies to an iMac that was touch enabled along the lines of Surface Studio.

That would be incredible.

It would literally be the best tablet ever made. The only thing that is stopping Apple from doing this is presumably Apple themselves?
 
That would be incredible.

It would literally be the best tablet ever made. The only thing that is stopping Apple from doing this is presumably Apple themselves?

It would, but my only issue would be how can you make it secure? You can't limit it in the same way iOS is, and if u try to do it that way, people won't like it.. That's why the Mac is what is it now ..

If Apple found a way to do this, they would have by now instead of a specific version tailored for touch while still maintain that same security.
 
It would, but my only issue would be how can you make it secure? You can't limit it in the same way iOS is, and if u try to do it that way, people won't like it.. That's why the Mac is what is it now ..

If Apple found a way to do this, they would have by now instead of a specific version tailored for touch while still maintain that same security.

Why would they need to have it be any more secure than a MacBook? I'm missing why that is even a different concert on a tablet vs. a clamshell design? My Surface Pro has equivalent security to my Dell laptop. Both are doing disk encryption and have the same OS running. The same would be true for an Apple built tablet running MacOS.
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That would be incredible.

It would literally be the best tablet ever made. The only thing that is stopping Apple from doing this is presumably Apple themselves?

I imagine that such a device exists somewhere inside Apple, and there are probably some Apple engineers that enjoy using it. I'm not sure it would be the best ever made... perhaps they've not figured out how to cram a full function PC into a package the size of an iPad. Microsoft has basically done it since the Surface Pro is similar weight of the original iPad. And with each year that they keep producing devices like the Surface Pro, Microsoft learns more and more about how to get it right. Apple is sitting on the sidelines it would appear.... but who knows, maybe they are secretly trying to get it right. The new Surface Pro is very good already. I use it side by side with my Mac.
 
Apple likes to use the word "magical". An iPad Pro form factor device running a touch enabled version of MacOS would be magical. And there is really nothing stopping Apple from creating it except for Apple. The same applies to an iMac that was touch enabled along the lines of Surface Studio.
I think they will eventually end up there to some extent. Even though I think Apple already makes the best tablet, having the ability to use the Pencil with the Mac would be very useful. Even if the only way to interact by touch with MacOs was with a Pencil in specific app, it would do everything I would want it to do (assuming it could fold back for drawing like my Toshiba laptop). I don't really want it for tablet use, so I would hope they would keep around the iPad with iOS.
 
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I imagine that such a device exists somewhere inside Apple, and there are probably some Apple engineers that enjoy using it. I'm not sure it would be the best ever made... perhaps they've not figured out how to cram a full function PC into a package the size of an iPad. Microsoft has basically done it since the Surface Pro is similar weight of the original iPad. And with each year that they keep producing devices like the Surface Pro, Microsoft learns more and more about how to get it right. Apple is sitting on the sidelines it would appear.... but who knows, maybe they are secretly trying to get it right. The new Surface Pro is very good already. I use it side by side with my Mac.

Somewhat begrudgingly, I have to admit I like my Surface Pro 3 quite a lot. I would strongly prefer a tablet with macOS, but until (or if) that day comes, the SP3 works far better for my need than the iPad Pro.
 
Somewhat begrudgingly, I have to admit I like my Surface Pro 3 quite a lot. I would strongly prefer a tablet with macOS, but until (or if) that day comes, the SP3 works far better for my need than the iPad Pro.

Well, a tablet with macOS is not going to happen. Take a look at these reports here: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/28/tony-fadell-rokr-touchscreen-macbook/

Tony Fadell's words: "The touchscreen Macbook project was basically trying to get touchscreen technology into a Mac to try to compete with Microsoft tablets. Steve was pissed off, and wanted to show them how to do it right. Well, that might have been the project to show Microsoft how to do it right, but they quickly realised there was so much software and there were so many new apps needed, and that everything had to be changed that it was very difficult. Plus the multitouch itself, we didn't know we could scale it that large to a full-screen display. Those were the challenges over on Mac."

So, Apple/Steve Jobs thought that there was so much software that did not use touch screen and decided to start from scratch. However, when they did that, they lost all the features of the Mac and of all software developed for it during the course of years. The iPad was indeed something new and, as something new, it had pretty much no software written for it.
 
All I hear is blah blah, I think I'm a real pro and all other people are deluded, blah blah...
Your entitled to your opinion of course, but that's all this is.

I dont have to think I'm a 'real pro' given I work in the industry.

But it is not an opinion that 4K video files need more storage space, or that editing a 4K video requires a better graphics card than one that was capable of editing DVD resolution videos.

That is just basic knowledge.
 
I dont have to think I'm a 'real pro' given I work in the industry.

But it is not an opinion that 4K video files need more storage space, or that editing a 4K video requires a better graphics card than one that was capable of editing DVD resolution videos.

That is just basic knowledge.

Have you worked there since the 1980s in computer engineering like I have huh... Mr "Basic".
I'm going to say NO.

Actually, if you had actually tried the Ipads you'd know they're up to that task on the processing/gpu side, so what the hell are you even arguing?.

Also, editing 4K video professionally should be done on a desktop with many big ass screens with a proper color calibration, not in the field on a damn Surface or any laptop or tablet in existence really.

For the task they're involved in, the Ipad pros are more than up to the task; they would mostly be used to previews, quick edits, color adjustments, and the like. No pros doing a whole film/commercial on a tablet or laptop; an amateur or business person (doing stuff internally instead of outsourcing it) might.,

Considering the Ipads actually care about color unlike all other laptops, it's more than adequate for any of those tasks unlike any of them.
 
Have you worked there since the 1980s in computer engineering like I have huh... Mr "Basic".
I'm going to say NO.

Actually, if you had actually tried the Ipads you'd know they're up to that task on the processing/gpu side, so what the hell are you even arguing?.

Also, editing 4K video professionally should be done on a desktop with many big ass screens with a proper color calibration, not in the field on a damn Surface or any laptop or tablet in existence really.

For the task they're involved in, the Ipad pros are more than up to the task; they would mostly be used to previews, quick edits, color adjustments, and the like. No pros doing a whole film/commercial on a tablet or laptop; an amateur or business person (doing stuff internally instead of outsourcing it) might.,

Considering the Ipads actually care about color unlike all other laptops, it's more than adequate for any of those tasks unlike any of them.

I do believe the color accuracy on the Surface Pro displays is quite good and it has a wider color gamut than the iPad Pro. Anyone doing professional work would also likely calibrate everything anyways.

The think you are missing in this whole debate is that you CAN use a Surface Pro with "many big ass screens" and you can not use the iPad Pro that way. You can also disconnect it from said screens and carry it with you when you go out the door.

This is not that difficult really. The Surface Pro serves the customer that wants ONE computer that they can use in their office and carry on the road as a laptop or tablet. The iPad Pro serves the customer that wants TWO (or more) computers that gives them a dedicated tablet and a separate dedicated laptop or desktop. And of course, there are people like my wife who don't do anything but browse, email, and look at pictures... and she can use the iPad just fine.
 
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