Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface

[6foot5foot]

Whoever on this forums claims, that iPad Pro is NOT a response to Surface is clearly delusional.

I'm sure I and many others are quite happy with a total stranger thinking we are "delusional" over a piffling online technology news story.

No one copies Microsoft. Never been known. They're not an iconic brand with industry shaping revolutionary designs that inspire envy.
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I think everybody is ignoring the biggest, and in my opinion the only, issue with the Ipad Pro. That is the lack of ability to run Apple Mac software. I don't care that the OS is separate from one to the other, I just want to port Logic Pro, MainStage, Final Cut Pro, etc to my Ipad. The way I would like it to be is that I can work on some major projects on my Mac Pro, and simply port them over to the Ipad when on the go. Why is that such an issue? They have already done Pages, Numbers, and Keynote, but so has Microsoft with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. As a matter of fact, I can also run those on my Ipad. Maybe it would behoove MS to start porting Apple and even Mac specific programs onto their Surface.

That's akin to complaining that a diesel powered boat doesn't run on petrol and can't drive down roads as it has no wheels.

 

[ElQben]

Regarding the iPad Pro itself, I think the better way for Apple to go, if they REALLY want to get their usual "casual crowd" to cough up for a laptop, is to make what I'd call an iBook. It would be a very thin and light clam-shell that runs two modes of iOS...one mode that looks and feels like tablet iOS, and another mode that looks and feels a lot like MacOS, but is just iOS in disguise. If it could charge off of a regular iPhone lightning cable, and was priced around $700-800 (doesn't need great specs) then that would be a massive "casual" consumer hit IMO. I believe that a lot of people who can't/won't pull the trigger on the full "Mac experience" would do so for an iBook, just to have a trendy, semi-productive "laptop" that "goes with" their iPhone. If that sounds retarded, remember most consumers are. I personally would not care for this device.

 

[haydn!]

I would not call an iPad a great product.

It's subjective.

 

[Yamcha]

I think It's a clear response to the Surface Pro, Apple has made it clear before that they didn't foresee a laptop with a touch screen, but that it's exactly what the iPad Pro has become..

Doesn't anybody remember? I'm paraphrasing but the claim was along the lines of "Touch screens on laptops don't work, because you have to reach at the screen", that's exactly what the iPad Pro is, It's literally a tablet attached to a keyboard, and yes you have to reach the screen just as you do with 2 in 1's. It's also been touted as a "Computer replacement", so for someone to suggest that "Oh no it's not a competitor", I think you're just kidding yourself or not being honest..

The iPad Pro functions much like a Surface Pro, they made the Apple Pencil, Smart Keyboard.. Sounds pretty Microsoft inspired.. The only real difference is the iPad Pro uses It's ARM chipset while the Surface uses a full fledged Core i5/i7 and a real operating system..

 

[sdf]

As for Microsoft following Apple? "We don't really look at Apple," said Gavin.

Little tip: Apple didn't just claim Microsoft did something in response to them.

 

[skaertus]

That isn't why Apple restricts what the iPad can do. It restricts what the iPad can do so sales of low-end Mac laptops aren't cannibalized by their tablets. Just like they only let the Apple Watch unlock Macs on El Capitan and Sierra instead of the iPhone or iPad. Just like they require you to use the Apple TV for the HomeKit hub, unless they've changed that policy in the past year. (I don't have one.) And so on.

I do not think this is the reason. The iPad is far more popular than the Mac. Although the Mac is successful as a product, it is a failure in the sense it has only a small market share of the PC market. The iPad could improve that, were it a full computer.

 

[KohPhiPhi]

I love the theoretical concept behind the Surface Pro (theoretical being the key word). I love the idea of a hybrid device that can function both as my daily driver while at the working desk, and my consumption device while sitting in the couch...

HOWEVER, after having used the Surface Pro (and having genuinely tried to like it), the realistic implementation is just not there:

• A 12'ish inch screen is too small as a daily driver working machine, and too large for a hand held device. I struggle with such a small screen while multitasking multiple browsers, excel sheets, Photoshop, etc for work, and I also struggle to comfortably hand hold such a large device in bed while reading the morning news. It's a middle point that doesn't quite satisfy either end.
  
  
• No matter how much I try to get used to it, I still find Window 10 inferior to MacOS as a desktop OS, and inferior to iOS as a touch OS. I always find the Apple counterparts more pleasing and intuitive to use.

Again, I love the concept of all-in-one devices, but as it stands I still prefer a Macbook Pro + iPad combo than a Surface Pro. Maybe, if Apple decided to create a hybrid device themselves...

 

[koruki]

lol at all the people putting the Surface down, have any you ever DONE work on the iPad. I do work on the Surface everyday, the iPad is for little kid apps/games.

 

[dr_sam87]

Just had to sign up to leave a comment...

Oh man, a couple of years ago I was looking for a device to take notes, read pdfs, etc for medical school. Surface Pro was one of the devices that most people recommended to buy, but it ended up as an awful experience.

First of all, it came with that version of Windows that came after the classic Win 7. It had all those tiles, absent Start panel, etc. The worst Windows version I had used to tell the truth.

Then, when my classes strated I could not connect to the school's Wi-Fi because students who used Windows needed to install a special antivirus software that was provided by the school, but it was custom made (i.e. not the usual Kaspersky or NOD32). It seems that software was needed to check one's Windows PC everytime one connected to that wifi. Interestingly, Mac students (the majority), didn't need any software besides their userid and pass. I've never made it to the IT dept because it was closed during lunch breaks and open during lectures. And without my school's IT dept I couldn't install that software because they needed to register your MAC address and other stuff in order to allow you to connect to their network. Overall, because of this lack of support of Windows platform I lost the first month, and every time my classmates engaged in some kind of discussion using internet, I was cut off from the rest of the group.

Next, the pen that comes with Surface pro is very mediocre, to say the least. Yes, it works flawlessly 70-80% of the time, but overall it doesn't stand near ipad pro stylus.

After having problems with this surface pro I ended up selling it on Ebay for almost half the price, and I will stay away from Microsoft products in near future (except for their Office Suite of course). I like Microsoft's Win 7 OS and I still use it on one of my notebooks, but what came after is a disaster. Recently, one of my friends brought me his wife's notebook to clean it from malware, and it had that Win 10 installed with a bunch of bloatware. Never again.

Bottom line is that Surface Pro is an average device. If you need something for school, go with the flow, and buy either MacBook or Ipad Pro.

 

[Keirasplace]

I think It's a clear response to the Surface Pro, Apple has made it clear before that they didn't foresee a laptop with a touch screen, but that it's exactly what the iPad Pro has become..

Doesn't anybody remember? I'm paraphrasing but the claim was along the lines of "Touch screens on laptops don't work, because you have to reach at the screen", that's exactly what the iPad Pro is, It's literally a tablet attached to a keyboard, and yes you have to reach the screen just as you do with 2 in 1's. It's also been touted as a "Computer replacement", so for someone to suggest that "Oh no it's not a competitor", I think you're just kidding yourself or not being honest..

The iPad Pro functions much like a Surface Pro, they made the Apple Pencil, Smart Keyboard.. Sounds pretty Microsoft inspired.. The only real difference is the iPad Pro uses It's ARM chipset while the Surface uses a full fledged Core i5/i7 and a real operating system..

Almost no one actually uses the touch part, and there are almost no apps, so how the hell was Apple wrong.
MS uses the touch part as a selling tool, see you could in theory use in as a touch screen... If it didn't suck so much at that.

Considering they now have plenty of competition in that segment (especially in making a better laptop part), they're sales have basically plateaued and I'm going to bet for a very bad next 2 years for their sales.

 

[Howl's Castle]

They aren't wrong.

Tim Cooked mocked it: https://goo.gl/V3Utnx, https://goo.gl/uwkjNn, https://goo.gl/Qy3SzN

As much as I love Apple, Tim Cook does like to mock the competitors and a few years later, copy.

 

[convergent]

Just had to sign up to leave a comment...

Oh man, a couple of years ago I was looking for a device to take notes, read pdfs, etc for medical school. Surface Pro was one of the devices that most people recommended to buy, but it ended up as an awful experience.

First of all, it came with that version of Windows that came after the classic Win 7. It had all those tiles, absent Start panel, etc. The worst Windows version I had used to tell the truth.

Then, when my classes strated I could not connect to the school's Wi-Fi because students who used Windows needed to install a special antivirus software that was provided by the school, but it was custom made (i.e. not the usual Kaspersky or NOD32). It seems that software was needed to check one's Windows PC everytime one connected to that wifi. Interestingly, Mac students (the majority), didn't need any software besides their userid and pass. I've never made it to the IT dept because it was closed during lunch breaks and open during lectures. And without my school's IT dept I couldn't install that software because they needed to register your MAC address and other stuff in order to allow you to connect to their network. Overall, because of this lack of support of Windows platform I lost the first month, and every time my classmates engaged in some kind of discussion using internet, I was cut off from the rest of the group.

Next, the pen that comes with Surface pro is very mediocre, to say the least. Yes, it works flawlessly 70-80% of the time, but overall it doesn't stand near ipad pro stylus.

After having problems with this surface pro I ended up selling it on Ebay for almost half the price, and I will stay away from Microsoft products in near future (except for their Office Suite of course). I like Microsoft's Win 7 OS and I still use it on one of my notebooks, but what came after is a disaster. Recently, one of my friends brought me his wife's notebook to clean it from malware, and it had that Win 10 installed with a bunch of bloatware. Never again.

Bottom line is that Surface Pro is an average device. If you need something for school, go with the flow, and buy either MacBook or Ipad Pro.

I love the way you used something several years ago, which makes it probably at least two generations old, and are using that experience to comment on today's products. I would venture to guess that the iPad Pro wasn't even released when you were doing this. So your comments about Surface Pro are simply not credible.

Almost no one actually uses the touch part, and there are almost no apps, so how the hell was Apple wrong.
MS uses the touch part as a selling tool, see you could in theory use in as a touch screen... If it didn't suck so much at that.

Considering they now have plenty of competition in that segment (especially in making a better laptop part), they're sales have basically plateaued and I'm going to bet for a very bad next 2 years for their sales.

Have you used a device that has touch, pencil/pen, and a pointing device? To say that people don't use touch on a hybrid device is ridiculous. I was skeptical as an Apple user that had not experienced it, but I was wrong. Now having seen the benefit of multiple input modes on a device, I get it. Apple is just stubborn and came out with the touch bar that I have heard nothing good about, but not tried it.

Regarding competition, you do realize that Microsoft's whole Surface line is designed to promote competition among the Windows computer makers. if HP or Lenovo comes out with a better Surface than Microsoft, they still win. Apple on the other hand locks you into to being the only game in town. If you don't like the way Apple does their hardware, you are out of luck if you want to run MacOS. My opinion from having used both is that the two OS platforms are similarly good and choice is also good.

It still baffles me how many supposed experts there are in this thread that have probably never really used what they are commenting on.

Meanwhile, I am loving the new Surface Pro... its a great machine if you want a full function device than can also be a tablet and you only want to carry one device. The iPad Pro, for my purposes, is a non starter. I'd still have to bring my laptop.

 

[vkt57]

Really did it really beat apple?

Come on mate be real, stop delusional behavior!

 

[jase1125]

But but but... who makes the most profits? That is what matters to us consumers. /S

No, it doesn't matter to consumers. Consumers do not pick devices based on profit margins of a company. That is frankly the silliest thing I have heard. Profits matter to the company and to their shareholders. Consumers worry about functionality.

 

[skaertus]

Just had to sign up to leave a comment...

Oh man, a couple of years ago I was looking for a device to take notes, read pdfs, etc for medical school. Surface Pro was one of the devices that most people recommended to buy, but it ended up as an awful experience.

First of all, it came with that version of Windows that came after the classic Win 7. It had all those tiles, absent Start panel, etc. The worst Windows version I had used to tell the truth.

Then, when my classes strated I could not connect to the school's Wi-Fi because students who used Windows needed to install a special antivirus software that was provided by the school, but it was custom made (i.e. not the usual Kaspersky or NOD32). It seems that software was needed to check one's Windows PC everytime one connected to that wifi. Interestingly, Mac students (the majority), didn't need any software besides their userid and pass. I've never made it to the IT dept because it was closed during lunch breaks and open during lectures. And without my school's IT dept I couldn't install that software because they needed to register your MAC address and other stuff in order to allow you to connect to their network. Overall, because of this lack of support of Windows platform I lost the first month, and every time my classmates engaged in some kind of discussion using internet, I was cut off from the rest of the group.

Next, the pen that comes with Surface pro is very mediocre, to say the least. Yes, it works flawlessly 70-80% of the time, but overall it doesn't stand near ipad pro stylus.

After having problems with this surface pro I ended up selling it on Ebay for almost half the price, and I will stay away from Microsoft products in near future (except for their Office Suite of course). I like Microsoft's Win 7 OS and I still use it on one of my notebooks, but what came after is a disaster. Recently, one of my friends brought me his wife's notebook to clean it from malware, and it had that Win 10 installed with a bunch of bloatware. Never again.

Bottom line is that Surface Pro is an average device. If you need something for school, go with the flow, and buy either MacBook or Ipad Pro.

Which Surface model did you buy?

 

[skaertus]

lol at all the people putting the Surface down, have any you ever DONE work on the iPad. I do work on the Surface everyday, the iPad is for little kid apps/games.

How is the experience of working with Surface every day?

 

[Tunster]

Oh dear. If Microsoft doesn't care about their competition, not realise the Surface doesn't really get bought outside the business world and keep thinking the Surface line-up is groundbreaking? They'll continue on the slippery slide to heated lack of money death as each product fails to gain any real traction of sales.

If Microsoft can sort out their scaling issues that they keep ignoring, then I might even care to glance at their product range.

 

[Virinprew]

I guess I am in the minority here - I feel the surface pro is what what the iPad Pro could be..

Feeling is not enough. You have to experience them. As a tablet, Surface is bad. Pro or not.

 

[lowendlinux]

Oh dear. If Microsoft doesn't care about their competition, not realise the Surface doesn't really get bought outside the business world and keep thinking the Surface line-up is groundbreaking? They'll continue on the slippery slide to heated lack of money death as each product fails to gain any real traction of sales.

If Microsoft can sort out their scaling issues that they keep ignoring, then I might even care to glance at their product range.

The business world is more than enough to keep Microsoft growing pretty much indefinitely.

 

[Lerxt]

I'm sure what you mean can you elaborate on this.
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Apple does not allow the control under MDM of when users are allowed to install an IOS update.
The straw that broke the camels back for us with the iPad was an IOS update that was pushed to our devices by Apple. The problem is that it bricked critical software as the vendor ( one of he 2 big aircraft manufacturers) was not ready to push an update to allow for changes in IOS.

 

[William Gates]

More Burger King hamburgers are sold in a day, than Ruth Chris steaks in a year...

Sure, but the last whopper I had gave me food poisoning. I felt pretty much the same way I felt the last time I used Windows.

 

[MacBergin]

When you get a job at Microsoft they hand you a pair of horse blinders so you can see how wonderful the Surface is.

 

[huperniketes]

I do not think this is the reason. The iPad is far more popular than the Mac. Although the Mac is successful as a product, it is a failure in the sense it has only a small market share of the PC market. The iPad could improve that, were it a full computer.

Okay. You're reasoning based on your view of iPad sales. But iPad sales have been going down, while Mac sales have picked up again. Have you heard or read the remarks by Apple's executives on the possibility of Macs with a touchscreen? Or how they differentiate those two product lines? Apple could easily make the iPad into a MacBook Air, with the attachable keyboard and trackpad. But they want you to buy both. Along with an iPhone and Apple Watch (you can unlock your Mac with it. Whee!)

 

[convergent]

How is the experience of working with Surface every day?

Its great.

At my desk, the Surface Pro is plugged into a dock via one magnetically attached cable giving me a full desktop experience via my 4k display; keyboard/mouse, etc.. And, I have the SP angled about 15 degrees and use as a dedicated OneNote tablet for writing. Key features her are a large display with true multitasking, and a pointing device. iPad Pro has no such mode.

When I need to go out of the office, I just grab the SP and click on the type cover and I now can carry my safe experience with me. Only one device to worry about. On a plane its the perfect size to use as a laptop (my preference is a 12" device on a plane), or I can remove the type cover and use it as a tablet. Key features here are ability to use as a tablet and the kickstand makes this much better than trying to find something to prop up your iPad. Or, I can use it as a laptop with a much more stable stand than what you get with the iPad.

Oh dear. If Microsoft doesn't care about their competition, not realise the Surface doesn't really get bought outside the business world and keep thinking the Surface line-up is groundbreaking? They'll continue on the slippery slide to heated lack of money death as each product fails to gain any real traction of sales.

If Microsoft can sort out their scaling issues that they keep ignoring, then I might even care to glance at their product range.

Microsoft's primary customer base is business customers. Are you thinking that is not a healthy business? You could basically say the same thing about Apple only focusing on consumers... they have long ignored the business world; and are now taking their eye off the ball for creative professionals and education... too markets they dominated in the past. Chrome and Microsoft are both making in roads there.

Not sure what scaling issues your are talking about.

Feeling is not enough. You have to experience them. As a tablet, Surface is bad. Pro or not.

And you know this why? You've experienced using a Surface device on a daily basis? I doubt Microsoft would have beat Apple in the JD Power and Associates user satisfaction study if the "Surface is bad" as you describe.

 

[DaveOP]

lol at all the people putting the Surface down, have any you ever DONE work on the iPad. I do work on the Surface everyday, the iPad is for little kid apps/games.

Just because your work isn't doable on an iPad does not make it the case for everyone. Cute comment though.