Well its a consumption device.. for all ages.
Market/sales of iPads fell dramatically last year despite the "pro" release. Analysts say sales will be down even further this year. Then again, the surface also fell by around the same amount % wise.
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Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface
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Well its a consumption device.. for all ages.
Market/sales of iPads fell dramatically last year despite the "pro" release. Analysts say sales will be down even further this year. Then again, the surface also fell by around the same amount % wise.
Well maybe if it's being used with desktop programs, cause the state of Apps in their store is horrible
This is all relative. I could say the state of "pro" apps in the Apple App Store is "horrible", as you put it, because they are mostly gimped down versions.
Lets take an application that many, many people use in their professional work - Microsoft Office. On the Surface Pro, I can run the full version. When at my desk, I can dock to a 4k monitor, keyboard, and pointing device, and work at full productivity. When I leave my desk, I can pick up and go and continue to use the full version with Surface. I still have access to keyboard and pointing device when mobile, or I can remove the keyboard and use as a tablet if I need to. In tablet mode, on either device, we are not doing heavy lifting work at that point; primarily consumption. In contrast, with the iPad I only have the iPad version. The only way I can do the heavy lifting work is on another device. So at my desk I have a what, MacBookPro? If I go on the road, I'm bringing the MBP and iPad Pro in order to do what I could do with just the Surface Pro alone. To me, the iPad scenario is the horrible scenario because I have to bring two devices; or bring a device that I can not do productive work on.
As far "tablet" apps that are compatible to what is on the iPad; sure I'll say that they are not as good and not as plentiful in the Windows app store. But anything that I might want such an App for, I usually am going to run it on my phone, not my tablet. For news reading, I find plenty of quality apps to keep me happy.... for example the USA Today app on Windows is quite good.
I want to carry two devices... phone and hybrid. The Apple model would force me to carry three devices... phone, tablet, and laptop. Its a choice, and there are pros and cons with each. I will repeat again that Apple is quite stubborn for not serving the two device model; or for thinking they are going to get the iPad to be the laptop replacement which I can't see happening for many information workers.
Maybe I'm typing for the sake of reading my own content at this point, 14 pages into this discussion.... But I've owned a Surface Pro 4 that I used daily for work, as well as an iPad Pro 9.7" with Apple Pencil and Apple keyboard cover.
After plenty of time working with both devices (as well as a Macbook Pro 15" laptop in the mix), I'd summarize the whole situation this way:
- Credit where credit is due. Microsoft did a pretty amazing job packing a full blown Windows PC into a tablet form-factor. How well it performs depends a whole lot on how much you spent to get a better configuration (just like with Apple products). I would pretty strongly dislike a Surface Pro 4 with the basic "M" series processor and only 128GB of SSD storage in it! The one I used had 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD and Core i5 CPU in it. Configured that way, or even with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD, you can easily forget it's not a full blown Windows 10 desktop PC when you use it with the dock and a normal monitor, keyboard and mouse.
- When you're on the go, things drastically change. I find I actually prefer my iPad Pro because it's a "pure" tablet. Yes, it's not going to give you apps quite as powerful as ones intended to run on a regular PC or Mac. But everything on the iPad is designed to work specifically on an iOS device, and is aware of the screen resolution and touchscreen nature of it. Windows 10, by contrast, always feels clumsy on the Surface Pro because your experience varies depending on what you run. Metro UI based apps made for Windows 10 may give a great tablet experience, fully supporting use of the pen as an input device, etc. But other big name Windows apps aren't aware they're not on a standard PC at all, and may not scale well to the high DPI screen. In some cases, you even end up installing duplicate software -- one to do a task in the Metro UI and another that does the same basic thing except as a regular PC Windows application. I think most Surface Pro users, on the go, wind up using it just like a traditional laptop with the keyboard cover. That's a compromise in and of itself, since that keyboard kind of sucks to type on, and is too flimsy to hold the tablet upright while trying to use it in your lap.
- I don't view Microsoft's latest Surface Pro update as anything more than an incremental improvement on the SP4? It seems like any claims Apple tried to "copy it" are just marketing B.S. - because both companies announced relatively incremental changes to existing devices at about the right time in the product life-cycle.
I should probably clarify that I'm not an artist and my use of the digital pen/pencil is limited to using it to jot down short notes, annotate documents, or fill out digital forms. I think if you really are one of the "creative pros" who plans to do a lot of digital artwork on a device, you approach the entire thing from a different angle than the rest of us. In that situation, I think I'd go with whichever tablet has the drawing apps on it you're most comfortable using, and/or which pencil feels more comfortable and functional to you? My own conclusion was that I'd rather keep the iPad as a "secondary portable device" to use when appropriate, combined with a standard laptop for everything else.
After plenty of time working with both devices (as well as a Macbook Pro 15" laptop in the mix), I'd summarize the whole situation this way:
- Credit where credit is due. Microsoft did a pretty amazing job packing a full blown Windows PC into a tablet form-factor. How well it performs depends a whole lot on how much you spent to get a better configuration (just like with Apple products). I would pretty strongly dislike a Surface Pro 4 with the basic "M" series processor and only 128GB of SSD storage in it! The one I used had 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD and Core i5 CPU in it. Configured that way, or even with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD, you can easily forget it's not a full blown Windows 10 desktop PC when you use it with the dock and a normal monitor, keyboard and mouse.
- When you're on the go, things drastically change. I find I actually prefer my iPad Pro because it's a "pure" tablet. Yes, it's not going to give you apps quite as powerful as ones intended to run on a regular PC or Mac. But everything on the iPad is designed to work specifically on an iOS device, and is aware of the screen resolution and touchscreen nature of it. Windows 10, by contrast, always feels clumsy on the Surface Pro because your experience varies depending on what you run. Metro UI based apps made for Windows 10 may give a great tablet experience, fully supporting use of the pen as an input device, etc. But other big name Windows apps aren't aware they're not on a standard PC at all, and may not scale well to the high DPI screen. In some cases, you even end up installing duplicate software -- one to do a task in the Metro UI and another that does the same basic thing except as a regular PC Windows application. I think most Surface Pro users, on the go, wind up using it just like a traditional laptop with the keyboard cover. That's a compromise in and of itself, since that keyboard kind of sucks to type on, and is too flimsy to hold the tablet upright while trying to use it in your lap.
- I don't view Microsoft's latest Surface Pro update as anything more than an incremental improvement on the SP4? It seems like any claims Apple tried to "copy it" are just marketing B.S. - because both companies announced relatively incremental changes to existing devices at about the right time in the product life-cycle.
I should probably clarify that I'm not an artist and my use of the digital pen/pencil is limited to using it to jot down short notes, annotate documents, or fill out digital forms. I think if you really are one of the "creative pros" who plans to do a lot of digital artwork on a device, you approach the entire thing from a different angle than the rest of us. In that situation, I think I'd go with whichever tablet has the drawing apps on it you're most comfortable using, and/or which pencil feels more comfortable and functional to you? My own conclusion was that I'd rather keep the iPad as a "secondary portable device" to use when appropriate, combined with a standard laptop for everything else.
Ow yes this logic <3..
Now remove every surface pro user
I mean I own BOTH a Surface Pro 3 and an Air 2 and I'm upgrading BOTH to the Surface Pro (new) and 10.5 iPad Pro...
But one is for work and one is for games.
The fact that Apple sells a lot of iPads means nothing about it as a real computer. Just that more people want to be entertained than work.
So the biggest drawback to using the Surface Pro for you is the poor[er] usability of its apps?
Exactly, Apple wasn't just going to sit the iPad out there as is and never change it. It is evolving like all of their other products.
As was said, there are trade offs to using one device for everything and there are trade offs with carrying two devices. For my use, the weight of the 15 inch MBP combined with an iPad Pro is now light enough (less than an early 2011 MBP) to make it easy to carry both with me if I need to. I am finding that to be less needed as the iPad adds apps like Affinity Photo, but I still like that 15 inch screen on occasion. I looked at the Surface before I bought the 15inch MBP and the screen size is what kept me from going with the Surface. It is just too small for all of my computing (away from separate monitor) needs.
Game Center (which appears to have been deprecated) and PSN are direct responses to Xbox Live...
It depends on use, so an iPad could be better if you want to play games, offer a 3 year old or a 75 year old a tablet for their use, or sketch using the Apple Pen (not sure of the reviews of the new Surface Pen). However, if you want to do photoshop, productivity, etc, then you can use the Surface Pro.
The iPad Pro and Surface Pro, at their highest specs, have such a huge disparity. The Core M3 model could be compared to the iPad Pro because of battery life, the A10X chip, etc. I even went back and forth on the iPad Pro 9.7 vs the Surface Pro 4 i5/4GB/128GB model, but I am sticking with the SP4 since I got it on sale for $500 on what is an otherwise $1000 tablet. I can simply do more than an iPad.
The iPad Pro and Surface Pro, at their highest specs, have such a huge disparity. The Core M3 model could be compared to the iPad Pro because of battery life, the A10X chip, etc. I even went back and forth on the iPad Pro 9.7 vs the Surface Pro 4 i5/4GB/128GB model, but I am sticking with the SP4 since I got it on sale for $500 on what is an otherwise $1000 tablet. I can simply do more than an iPad.
Windows 8 Metro. Once that was announced, everybody went gaga over flat designs. Google with Material Design, Apple with iOS 7.
No, it isn't. An iPad running software and a Mac running software are quite similar. The only distinction is Apple acting as the arbiter of what software is allowed on their road. Imagine if we didn't have net neutrality, and telcos could decide which providers you could use over the networking service you paid for!
The experience is fine. I have the UWP touch friendly apps when I want to use it as a tablet and I can hook it up to a 27" monitor and use a keyboard and mouse when I want to.
Oh I can also spin up a couple of VM's with Android and MacOS when needed.
Flexibility is what I have with the Surface Pro.
The "on the go" part of this is especially important. When I am "on the go", I am potentially going to the other side of the world for days and will need to continue to do the same work I do at my office; and with the same level of productivity. So, saying you prefer to use the iPad Pro would imply you won't need full computer abilities until you get back home? That is not the case for me, or for most in the consulting part of our business.
Your comments about people using the Surface Pro as a laptop rather than tablet; and the keyboard being flimsy. Compared to what? You are saying you prefer the iPad Pro... are you saying the iPad Pro with keyboard is easier to use in lap than a Surface Pro with keyboard? I would challenge that. I agree that as a pure tablet, the iPad Pro is a better experience. I should be or it would be a marked failure. But that is not what we are all debating here. Apple is positioning the iPad Pro as a "laptop replacement". The Surface Pro is better at that for the type of work that many do. And, I find the Surface Pro and type cover works perfectly fine in my lap. Its different from a traditional laptop in lap; but works fine for me. The kickstand gives a lot of options both in laptop and tablet modes.
My Surface Pro 3 is two things:
It's the worst modern tablet I've ever owned because windows 10 is an abomination when it comes to touch input in general.
- The best laptop I've ever owned.
- The worst modern tablet I've ever owned.
It's the worst modern tablet I've ever owned because windows 10 is an abomination when it comes to touch input in general.
Well I'm planning on taking the pro back and getting a Surface.
So in responce to above, under strangers it's now a 1
Make it a 2.
I'm not sure I'd make a decision on a business tool based on what my family members or strangers on a bus are using. None of my family members do work while traveling. My wife uses an iPad and doesn't work; so its email and browsing make it the only computer she needs.
As for the strangers on a bus, maybe they all use Surface Pros and were so much more productive at work (compared to using an iPad Pro), that they could just relax on the bus instead of pulling it out.
Have both iPad and Surface Pro
iPad is when i'm sitting on the couch and want to just browse the web, or a quick message. great for just quick consuming.
But for work. Surface Pro. no chance otherwise. my work cannot be done on an iPad
People ask me how I can say that my Surface 2 (non-Pro Windows RT version) is more "pro" than my 12.9 iPad Pro for some tasks. Rather than repeat some of the reasons, here are some videos that capture it.
These videos are nearly 4 years old, but they still pretty much hold up. It's easy to still buy Surface RT and Surface 2 devices in great condition on ebay for under $100.
Nice variety of ports, support for a wide range of USB accessories, and ability to print to virtually any printer.
Surface RT (part 1)
Surface RT (part 2)
Surface 2
These videos are nearly 4 years old, but they still pretty much hold up. It's easy to still buy Surface RT and Surface 2 devices in great condition on ebay for under $100.
Nice variety of ports, support for a wide range of USB accessories, and ability to print to virtually any printer.
Surface RT (part 1)
MMmmmm, the iPad Pro is a complete non-starter for me given it is basically a glorified iPhone, and can't run proper desktop level apps.
However, my old MPB 2011 recently died and I bought a refurbed 2015 MBP instead of the new Surface Pro, after weighing them up for a long time.
Why? MS had a real chance to bury Mac for me with their latest revision and it was a very ho-hum upgrade. Add to that a major hurdle for me, my love of OSX and antipathy towards Windows and after a lot of soul searching, I stayed with Mac.
At this point, using a Mac every day for hours on end is more pleasurable than using Windows. I would be willing to jump if the hardware, price and OS were better, but they just aren't. Maybe later.
I really do like the Surface Pro and think it is way more useful than an iPad Pro. I just don't see the point of the iPad Pro at all.
However, my old MPB 2011 recently died and I bought a refurbed 2015 MBP instead of the new Surface Pro, after weighing them up for a long time.
Why? MS had a real chance to bury Mac for me with their latest revision and it was a very ho-hum upgrade. Add to that a major hurdle for me, my love of OSX and antipathy towards Windows and after a lot of soul searching, I stayed with Mac.
At this point, using a Mac every day for hours on end is more pleasurable than using Windows. I would be willing to jump if the hardware, price and OS were better, but they just aren't. Maybe later.
I really do like the Surface Pro and think it is way more useful than an iPad Pro. I just don't see the point of the iPad Pro at all.
I'd had Surface 3 for a year and sold it long ago. There was no good tablet apps. Google maps wasn't there. The pen stopped working occasionally even with brand new batteries. The scrolling was not smooth. OneNote bounced like crazy when I put my hand down to write. Sometimes the line thickness changed by itself. I had to keep setting the line thickness over and over. The hardware was good but the software was so buggy. If there had been the iPad Pro back then, I wouldn't have bought the surface.
I agree. Apple in it's stubbornness said you can't combine the two, but I have to admit, Microsoft did a pretty good job. There are so many advantages to the Surface (USB ports, regular apps, docking station I/O, dGPU) which can take place of your tablet, laptop, desktop - and that's awesome value. The iPad IMO is a supplemental computer for casual computing - no real I/O, which means no external drives, different apps to work with the same data from your MacBook pro. Etc.