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Microsoft Introduces Thinner Surface Pro 3 with 12" Display Starting at $799

That's why this will always be different ....

I don't think the Surface is a bad product at this point. But the issue becomes Microsoft trying to position it as a direct iPad competitor.

Given the price point and the fact it's really just an ultra-slim, full-blown Windows 8.1 PC with a touch-screen and stylus -- this will compete mainly with the rest of the Windows notebook and ultrabook market, not the iPad.

No matter how cool they make the Surface hardware itself, it still boils down to a decision by the customer of "Windows or iOS"? Just like the traditional "Windows vs. OS X" decision, those who want a device that runs Apple's OS will buy Apple's device.

There are definitely areas where the iPad is more productive than a Windows PC, even if you add a great stylus and touch-screen to the equation, and make it really portable. For example, musicians using the iPad as an electronic musical instrument or instrument controller like iOS because it supports very low latency response times. (Android, by contrast, never really had nearly as much development of music related applications for it -- because it doesn't have anything equivalent to Apple's "CoreAudio" support. Other applications can steal CPU cycles at inopportune times and cause latency when recording, etc.)

Certainly, you CAN use Windows for these purposes ... but it requires a lot more fiddling and care with what software you install. The wrong program or driver can upset the proverbial cart. That's why companies specialize in selling high profit margin Windows PC clones optimized for recording studio or virtual instrument use. People will pay for an expert to ship a Windows box that's already tweaked and assembled with just the right motherboard, sound chipset, video chipset, and so on -- so it performs reliably for that task.


okboy said:
They think they can keep making this faster and lighter. They attack the iPad as not being "productive" enough. But they don't get that people like the iPad. And they aren't making a product that competes with it.

It's not the hassle-free appliance that the iPad is. It's a vulnerable, breakable device just like desktop Windows.
Click to expand...
 
I actually love using my surface pro first edition! These look neat, but i'll wait til they drop a bit in price.
 
jettredmont said:
No, he priced out the i7 + 512GB model from Microsoft's spec sheet, which is the level of processor and storage you'd want to compare with a MacBook Pro.

There is no MacBook sporting an anemic i3 and 64GB of storage, so it is hard to compare the "starting price" to any Mac laptop.
Click to expand...

If you want to have a discussion, you need to at least pretend not to be blindly biased. I could easily say similar things about the iPad line OR the Macbook line in terms of price/performance.
 
jettredmont said:
No, he priced out the i7 + 512GB model from Microsoft's spec sheet, which is the level of processor and storage you'd want to compare with a MacBook Pro.

There is no MacBook sporting an anemic i3 and 64GB of storage, so it is hard to compare the "starting price" to any Mac laptop.
Click to expand...

Cant really compare it to the Macbook pro though (imho). it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

The Macbook pro's use significantly beefier hardware all around. The CPU's are Intel LV (Low Voltage) Dual cores that offer a significant power increase over those of the Surface Pro's and Macbook Airs, which use intel's ULV (Ultra Low Voltage) CPU's. They all have similar featureset, but the ULV's are clocked significantly lower and have far greater throttling of their power. The macbook pro's are also much bulkier and heavier compared to both MBA's and Surface Pro 3s (though, the Macbook Pro's are sexy laptops).

The real comparison that can and should be made is between the Surface Pro3 and the Macbook Airs.

both are the "ultrabook" level hardware and performance parts, and offer a very similar overall power experience. The difference is just the form factor:

going to use 13" Macbook air since that is closest IMHO to the 12" SurfacePro3.
MBA 13" w 128GB storage, 4GB ram and i5 CPU Starts at $999
Comes with that surface pro3 doesn't: Keyboard / Trackpad. Longer battery life (they claim 12+ hours). OSx.
Weight: 1350g (2.53lbs)

SurPro3: 128gb Storage, 4GB Ra and i5 CPU priced at $999
Comes with: Hi res display (1440p v 900p mba). n-trig digital pen and digitizer. Weighs 800g.

So overall trade offs:

Windows8.1 instead of OSx. as a user of both, i will say, that everyone has their preference and your mileage will vary. neither is better than the other (sad to burst your bubbles everyone). it all comes down to the tools you want to use and the OS choice that provides them.

Keyboard and trackpad is sacrificed in favour of the Touchscreen and digitizer.

But besides that trade off? Hardware wise they should actually yield to have very near and similar performance (if not identical, depends on which actual CPU/GPU combination that Microsoft chooses).

So in the end, it comes down to, Which experience best suits the use you have? the one thing that the Surface Pro line has going that Apple doesn't have, is that you can always easily add a keyboard and mouse to the surface pro, either via snap in touch/type addons, or any bluetooth keyboard/mouse. So far, there's no way to add touchscreen, high resolution panel or digitizer to the Macbook air.
 
It's clearly shifted the surface to primarily a laptop that can offer some of the functions of a tablet rather than earlier generations that attempted to balance both. That's not a bad move by them.

I'd suggest they've also shifted the target market to very largely the enterprise. I can see this going down well with many businesses.
 
LordVic said:
Cant really compare it to the Macbook pro though (imho). it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

The Macbook pro's use significantly beefier hardware all around. The CPU's are Intel LV (Low Voltage) Dual cores that offer a significant power increase over those of the Surface Pro's and Macbook Airs, which use intel's ULV (Ultra Low Voltage) CPU's. They all have similar featureset, but the ULV's are clocked significantly lower and have far greater throttling of their power. The macbook pro's are also much bulkier and heavier compared to both MBA's and Surface Pro 3s (though, the Macbook Pro's are sexy laptops).

The real comparison that can and should be made is between the Surface Pro3 and the Macbook Airs.

both are the "ultrabook" level hardware and performance parts, and offer a very similar overall power experience. The difference is just the form factor:

going to use 13" Macbook air since that is closest IMHO to the 12" SurfacePro3.
MBA 13" w 128GB storage, 4GB ram and i5 CPU Starts at $999
Comes with that surface pro3 doesn't: Keyboard / Trackpad. Longer battery life (they claim 12+ hours). OSx.
Weight: 1350g (2.53lbs)

SurPro3: 128gb Storage, 4GB Ra and i5 CPU priced at $999
Comes with: Hi res display (1440p v 900p mba). n-trig digital pen and digitizer. Weighs 800g.

So overall trade offs:

Windows8.1 instead of OSx. as a user of both, i will say, that everyone has their preference and your mileage will vary. neither is better than the other (sad to burst your bubbles everyone). it all comes down to the tools you want to use and the OS choice that provides them.

Keyboard and trackpad is sacrificed in favour of the Touchscreen and digitizer.

But besides that trade off? Hardware wise they should actually yield to have very near and similar performance (if not identical, depends on which actual CPU/GPU combination that Microsoft chooses).

So in the end, it comes down to, Which experience best suits the use you have? the one thing that the Surface Pro line has going that Apple doesn't have, is that you can always easily add a keyboard and mouse to the surface pro, either via snap in touch/type addons, or any bluetooth keyboard/mouse. So far, there's no way to add touchscreen, high resolution panel or digitizer to the Macbook air.
Click to expand...

Your weight is a little off, according to Apple's website.

And by a little, I mean .4lbs off. :\
 
I currently have a first-generation Surface Pro at work. It was pretty much a piece of **** with the Touch Cover, but I bought the Type Cover 2 and it makes it an infinitely better machine (save the trackpad). This looks like a solid update. Sure, it takes some getting used to, but it is actually a good experience.
 
mKTank said:
Christ, the fanboys in this thread are a sad example of what MacRumors has become. This is a really nice tablet and only purebred fanboys will deny that.
Click to expand...


Totally agreed. The Surface Pro 3 looks like a great tablet. It is now at the top of my wishlist of devices. I don't care if it is made by Apple or Microsoft or Google or Samsung.
 
wrightc23 said:
It's clearly shifted the surface to primarily a laptop that can offer some of the functions of a tablet rather than earlier generations that attempted to balance both. That's not a bad move by them.

I'd suggest they've also shifted the target market to very largely the enterprise. I can see this going down well with many businesses.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that the TypeCover is still an additional-cost accessory.
 
Really wish apple would include decent stylus support in the ipad. They had to push the finger only thing at first but now everyones used to that and its time to have both again. Fingers can only do do so much
 
It's interesting they are comparing it to a rMBP on the Surface website.

I can understand the MBA comparison but comparing to a Pro is strange.
 
When there were rumors of the first iPad we at work were thinking exactly this. A tablet that runs full blown OS where desktop apps can be installed.

MS nailed this one! Fantastic.

I just ordered the iPad Air and now am having second thoughts....If i can get over Windows 8, that is.

----------
AppleInTheMud said:
Every time I wonder why I became psychologist, I come to this forum and read the comments. I'll never run out of work :)
Click to expand...

So who is going to take care of you? :)
 
HenryDJP said:
It was sorta Apple-like but...unlike Apple, Microsoft didn't have much to really offer and focused on small features as if they were really worth talking about such as the kickstand. Big Whoop. The guy talked way too long and remained on one piece of software which was One Note while briefly switching to the crossword puzzle app to show off the stylus. There's was really nothing to be WOW'd about.
Click to expand...


On the opposite. I think Microsoft had a lot to offer this time. Much more than Apple usually has. It had a bigger screen with a different aspect ratio and a higher resolution. A product even thinner and lighter than its predecessor despite having a bigger and sharper screen. A better separate keyboard. A pen. And a lower price point.

I can only imagine the splash Apple would have made with all this.
 
kingtj said:
I don't think the Surface is a bad product at this point. But the issue becomes Microsoft trying to position it as a direct iPad competitor.

Given the price point and the fact it's really just an ultra-slim, full-blown Windows 8.1 PC with a touch-screen and stylus -- this will compete mainly with the rest of the Windows notebook and ultrabook market, not the iPad.

No matter how cool they make the Surface hardware itself, it still boils down to a decision by the customer of "Windows or iOS"? Just like the traditional "Windows vs. OS X" decision, those who want a device that runs Apple's OS will buy Apple's device.

There are definitely areas where the iPad is more productive than a Windows PC, even if you add a great stylus and touch-screen to the equation, and make it really portable. For example, musicians using the iPad as an electronic musical instrument or instrument controller like iOS because it supports very low latency response times. (Android, by contrast, never really had nearly as much development of music related applications for it -- because it doesn't have anything equivalent to Apple's "CoreAudio" support. Other applications can steal CPU cycles at inopportune times and cause latency when recording, etc.)

Certainly, you CAN use Windows for these purposes ... but it requires a lot more fiddling and care with what software you install. The wrong program or driver can upset the proverbial cart. That's why companies specialize in selling high profit margin Windows PC clones optimized for recording studio or virtual instrument use. People will pay for an expert to ship a Windows box that's already tweaked and assembled with just the right motherboard, sound chipset, video chipset, and so on -- so it performs reliably for that task.
Click to expand...

Why do people keep comparing this to an ipad? There are atom tablets, and RT tablets which should be compared to the ipad. The surface pro is more akin to an ultrabook.

Look, I understand the "simple" argument in favor of the ipad, I get it. Personally I have the knowledge and common sense to run a windows machine, but I understand it's not for everyone. I still think there is a market for a full windows tablet though. In the surface presentation they noted that 96% of ipad users also had laptops, 96 freakin %. That really makes you think about the ipad and the purpose it is serving, and about Apple's ulterior motives in keeping the ipad as a "simple" consumption device.

At the end of the day though I think people FAR overestimate their stupidity. I have many family members, friends, etc who run windows 7 and windows 8 machines and have no issues. Windows really has come a LONG way and does not have many issues with day to day use. The argument that kind of negates all of this is you can just open your windows tablet to metro mode and have a "dumb" tablet if that's what you want, you don't ever have to look at the desktop if you don't want it. I dumbed myself down for 4 years with the ipad, never again.
 
TWSS37 said:
My initial reaction to this is that you would find any competing product to a MBA or iPad Air to have "compromises".
Click to expand...
?? That's a weird reaction.

"Fiddle around with snap on cover"? Really? It just snaps in place. I could say the same about a MBA: "must fiddle with using tip of finger to open laptop"... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Try using one for a while.

Dealing with the extra pieces and parts is annoying.
E.g., you take your device out of your bag and start using it.
MBA:
1. take the MBA out of bag and put it on the table
2. open MBA lid (with tip of finger :cool:)

Surface:
1. take the device out of the bag and hold it in one hand so you can see the back
2. use the other hand to open the kickstand
3. put it on the table
4. oops, I was using it in tablet mode last time, so I had the keyboard off.
5. Go back to the bag and get the keyboard
6. pick up device in one hand, snap on the keyboard with the other, set the device back down

That's fiddling around.
Let's not even discuss the stylus.
 
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