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Microsoft Introduces Thinner Surface Pro 3 with 12" Display Starting at $799

ImperialX said:
Apple will never make a hybrid. They want people to buy a Mac and an iPad. More $$$.
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I agree there. I've seen others with similar sentiments and observations here. I guess I have also become more jaded over the years and see the same thing. Why sell one device when you can convince someone that they need two?

ImperialX said:
I truly think Atom-based ULV tablets are the future of Windows-based tablets. Haswell is good, but even with Broadwell, the battery life is just not at a level I expect from my tablets. I've owned an HP Envy x2 and the battery life is amazing to behold. It puts any Haswell-based machines I've used - including the MacBook Air I own - to shame. The weight is not bad either and certainly lighter than the Surface Pro! The only downside is that it's still a bit too underpowered, but with Bay Trail we're slowly getting there.

When it gets to a point that 7-inch Atom-based tablets can actually decode 1080p Hi10p MKV without stuttering, I do see myself replacing my Nexus 7 with it. Nothing's going to replace the iPad though - the apps are just too good.
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Hi10p along with h.265 is what you are more than likely going to get in the next generation of video cards, processors, and ASICs. Atom really can't brute force Hi10p playback right now? I'm a little shocked to be honest. Though I can understand if its a battery killer. The power Atom sips is nice and this latest generation adds the cores, clock speed, and power savings long lacking from the previous ones.

Still it's not enough power for me even coming from a 2007 Macbook. I want Haswell even if it's ULV.
 
Eidorian said:
Hi10p along with h.265 is what you are more than likely going to get in the next generation of video cards, processors, and ASICs. Atom really can't brute force Hi10p playback right now? I'm a little shocked to be honest. Though I can understand if its a battery killer. The power Atom sips is nice and this latest generation adds the cores, clock speed, and power savings long lacking from the previous ones.
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Even with Bay Trail, it simply cannot reproduce 1080p 10-bit MKV at perfect framerate, especially when the typesetting of the subtitles become a little complex in the opening sequences. Even 720p is not always perfect with some high bitrate BD encodes from UTW and Coalgirls.

I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, but I tried everything and the results were not good enough to convince me to keep it.

Eidorian said:
Still it's not enough power for me even coming from a 2007 Macbook. I want Haswell even if it's ULV.
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I think we're talking about different things here. I've never been sold on the hybrid from factor and even if I do get a 7" Windows-tablet, it's never going to replace the MacBook Air in my bag. That's why I'm fine with Atom in the tablet as long as it's powerful enough to serve its purpose as the media player. Haswell is overkill.

If I were to only have a single hybrid device that replaces both my laptop and the tablet, then yes, I definitely want Haswell...or Broadwell, which might be coming sooner than we think.
 
ImperialX said:
I don't know, I consider myself a "techie" and I'm pretty happy with Apple's ecosystem right now.

I also think that the Surface Pro 3 would be an excellent choice if I didn't have enough money to buy an iMac, a MacBook Air and an iPad. Having a Surface Pro 3 to use on the go and a docking station + external display at home seems like the ideal single-computer solution for College students.

However, as good as that sounds, I only know this because I keep up with tech news. All of this means nothing for the majority of people who will walk into a shop looking for a "laptop" or a "tablet". The people who ask for a "laptop" will buy the MacBook Air because it's cheaper than the Surface Pro 3 with a keyboard and it's been proven to be a solid solution. The people who ask for a "tablet" won't buy something that costs $799 for the cheapest model and is twice as heavy as the iPad Air. Only the people like you and me who walk into a shop knowing exactly what a Surface Pro 3 is will buy the Surface Pro 3 - and trust me, we ARE in the minority and there isn't enough of us to make a product successful.
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I'm not sure to whom you are giving less credit, Microsoft or "people." Pretty much everything you have said could have applied to the iPad when it was first released. We only know a market for that product exists now. What your argument amounts to is saying something I take for granted, which is that Microsoft is going to have to market this product. It is no more going to appear magically than the market for the iPad did.
 
LordVic said:
True about Win8 apps. But the benefit / bonus compromise of going with a device running full Windows 8.1 is the access to all Windows x86 based programs that exist, or ever existed. While they might not be touch optimized, they are there. This makes Windows 8.1 (pro) the largest ecosystem in the world.
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A good point. If an Apple hybrid ran OSX but you can use iOS as well, on the same device(s) thats compelling. Helps reduce compromise. In fact from an OS view there becomes no compromise, it just leaves the hardware compromise
 
ImperialX said:
Even with Bay Trail, it simply cannot reproduce 1080p 10-bit MKV at perfect framerate, especially when the typesetting of the subtitles become a little complex in the opening sequences. Even 720p is not always perfect with some high bitrate BD encodes from UTW and Coalgirls.

I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, but I tried everything and the results were not good enough to convince me to keep it.
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Thanks, I feel a little out of the loop sometimes. I know my Tegra 3 chokes on it but I did not know that it was still an issue on Atom. I can manage 720p on my old Core 2 Duo.

I should be getting new hardware this year so I can brush up on what works and what doesn't.

ImperialX said:
I think we're talking about different things here. I've never been sold on the hybrid from factor and even if I do get a 7" Windows-tablet, it's never going to replace the MacBook Air in my bag. That's why I'm fine with Atom in the tablet as long as it's powerful enough to serve its purpose as the media player. Haswell is overkill.

If I were to only have a single hybrid device that replaces both my laptop and the tablet, then yes, I definitely want Haswell...or Broadwell, which might be coming sooner than we think.
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Sorry, maybe I came on a bit too strongly. I have noticed that recently. I'm just mentioning that my needs are aiming for Haswell power. Atom sounds great for what you need to do. Maybe in the next spin of Atom but waiting sure sucks.

Haswell appears to be enough of a power savings and performance leap from Ivy Bridge from what I've seen. Broadwell teases yet another advance in the power savings area.
 
osofast240sx said:
im not bashing! Just stating my experience. Bottom line using Mac hardware to run Microsoft software works very well.

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QUOTE]

Microsoft hardware?? Xbox?

Microsoft uses computer hardware made by Intel in the SP3. You can buy "other" computers that use Intyel, nVidia, ATI, etc, etc, etc, and that use Windows as the OS
You can buy an Apple computer that also uses Intel, nVidia, ATI a while back, etc, etc, that uses OSX as the OS

Do not confuse the computer with the Operating System
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Eidorian said:
Thanks, I feel a little out of the loop sometimes. I know my Tegra 3 chokes on it but I did not know that it was still an issue on Atom. I can manage 720p on my old Core 2 Duo.
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The Core 2 Duo is still better than Bay Trail in this regard. It's simply more optimised with the CCCP for high bitrate playback. 720p encodes that lag a bit on Bay Trail will play fine on the C2D.

Eidorian said:
I should be getting new hardware this year so I can brush up on what works and what doesn't.
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I personally think that the Surface Pro line seems like a good fit for you. I would wholeheartedly recommend the Surface Pro 3 if it were running Broadwell already, because it's definitely going to be focused at the power savings area. The Surface Pro 3 is still using a revised version of a year-old architecture and something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It'll be outdated by this holiday season.

Eidorian said:
Sorry, maybe I came on a bit too strongly. I have noticed that recently. I'm just mentioning that my needs are aiming for Haswell power. Atom sounds great for what you need to do. Maybe in the next spin of Atom but waiting sure sucks.
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I think I came off a bit too strongly in the last comment too. I didn't think you were coming off strongly at all with your previous post.

Eidorian said:
Haswell appears to be enough of a power savings and performance leap from Ivy Bridge from what I've seen. Broadwell teases yet another advance in the power savings area.

Haswell appears to be enough of a power savings and performance leap from Ivy Bridge from what I've seen. Broadwell teases yet another advance in the power savings area.
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Haswell is amazing, but it's still not good enough if you compare it to what the iPad Air can offer in terms of battery life - and that's the kind of battery life I expect on a tablet. I think my hatred towards hybrid devices stem from the fact that the battery life and portability is still not at a point I'd label them as tablet replacements. Unless it's Atom, of course!

Think about it, it's been revealed that the Surface Pro 3 has the same battery as the Surface Pro 2. The Surface Pro 2 hardly gets more than 6 hours of battery life in real life use, and the Surface Pro 3 adds a bigger, higher resolution display. I honestly don't think it's going to spell anything good for the device's battery performance in real life use.
 
ImperialX said:
The Core 2 Duo is still better than Bay Trail in this regard. It's simply more optimised with the CCCP for high bitrate playback. 720p encodes that lag a bit on Bay Trail will play fine on the C2D.
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That's still pretty amazing for some 5-6 year old hardware.

ImperialX said:
I personally think that the Surface Pro line seems like a good fit for you. I would wholeheartedly recommend the Surface Pro 3 if it were running Broadwell already, because it's definitely going to be focused at the power savings area. The Surface Pro 3 is still using a revised version of a year-old architecture and something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It'll be outdated by this holiday season.
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Intel's Broadwell release schedule makes me believe that Surface 4 might be lurking around Christmas or CES 2015. Though first out is going to be the Y-Series and Microsoft has been using the U-Series for Surface Pro.

ImperialX said:
Haswell is amazing, but it's still not good enough if you compare it to what the iPad Air can offer in terms of battery life - and that's the kind of battery life I expect on a tablet. I think my hatred towards hybrid devices stem from the fact that the battery life and portability is still not at a point I'd label them as tablet replacements. Unless it's Atom, of course!

Think about it, it's been revealed that the Surface Pro 3 has the same battery as the Surface Pro 2. The Surface Pro 2 hardly gets more than 6 hours of battery life in real life use, and the Surface Pro 3 adds a bigger, higher resolution display. I honestly don't think it's going to spell anything good for the device's battery performance in real life use.
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I think it will be just waiting to the reviews to come in with their battery life results. I can see where you concern is coming from when it comes to Atom vs. Haswell on battery life. Apple does work some magic with iOS and OS X to get the most battery life out of a product. Even with every advance Microsoft has touted when putting with latest operating system through the paces of Beta and Release Candidate along with even releasing their own OEM branded hardware, they still fail to hit their marks when it comes to battery life.
 
Eidorian said:
I think it will be just waiting to the reviews to come in with their battery life results. I can see where you concern is coming from when it comes to Atom vs. Haswell on battery life. Apple does work some magic with iOS and OS X to get the most battery life out of a product. Even with every advance Microsoft has touted when putting with latest operating system through the paces of Beta and Release Candidate along with even releasing their own OEM branded hardware, they still fail to hit their marks when it comes to battery life.
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The amount of battery life Surface Pro 2 gets is already pretty impressive if you look at its specs. My MacBook Air 11" which uses the exact same chip gets about 9 hours of battery life in real life use in OS X. The Surface Pro 2 has a higher resolution display and a multitude more sensors, and it gets around 7 hours. That's not a huge difference. Microsoft engineers are not totally incompetent when it comes to battery optimisation.

However, the battery size is important. That's why the 13" MacBook Air easily gets 12 hours of real life use - I have owned one and it feels stunning. The only reason I got rid of it was because it was too big. The Surface Pro 3, on the other hand, doesn't have a bigger battery than the Surface Pro 2. What it does have though, are even more power-draining features on the specs chart. I don't think I have to wait for the reviews to tell you right now that the battery life isn't going to be better than the Surface Pro 2 at best.
 
IbisDoc said:
Excellent points. This is why I implore everyone on this site to jump on the Surface bandwagon, regardless of its affordability for you. For the good of society, there needs to be healthy competition in the laptop/tablet world. Usually, we all celebrate Pogue's general Apple-centric views. Now that he is heaping praise on this non-Apple device, it should be a no-brainer purchase. Trust me...in the long run, it will force your favorite company to stay humble, grounded, and customer-focused.



I've owned every single iOS device, and every single MacBook....and I already preordered the Surface for the good of humanity. Probably won't even use it much, but it can sit in my closet next to my two google Nexus and three Kindle devices.
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Hilarious.

I agree that there must be healthy competition. But artificial competition is not healthy competition. And what difference would it make if any member of this forum bought one Surface? Would it make Surface more successful or competitive?

Buy it if you need/want it. If you want the good of society, you can donate this money to charity instead of Microsoft, Apple or Google, companies that already have more than enough money.
 
osofast240sx said:
im not bashing! Just stating my experience. Bottom line using Mac hardware to run Microsoft software works very well.

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your dreaming you're dreaming if you think Apple is going to read your post. Just because you haven't figured out how it's not just a content vehicle, does not make it one!!
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Well I can hope can't I? And I'll consider the iPad more than a content machine when it can run real programs, like Illustrator and InDesign CS6 and dozens of others that can't run on lightweight IOS.
 
ImperialX said:
The Core 2 Duo is still better than Bay Trail in this regard. It's simply more optimised with the CCCP for high bitrate playback. 720p encodes that lag a bit on Bay Trail will play fine on the C2D.



I personally think that the Surface Pro line seems like a good fit for you. I would wholeheartedly recommend the Surface Pro 3 if it were running Broadwell already, because it's definitely going to be focused at the power savings area. The Surface Pro 3 is still using a revised version of a year-old architecture and something about that just doesn't sit right with me. It'll be outdated by this holiday season.



I think I came off a bit too strongly in the last comment too. I didn't think you were coming off strongly at all with your previous post.



Haswell is amazing, but it's still not good enough if you compare it to what the iPad Air can offer in terms of battery life - and that's the kind of battery life I expect on a tablet. I think my hatred towards hybrid devices stem from the fact that the battery life and portability is still not at a point I'd label them as tablet replacements. Unless it's Atom, of course!

Think about it, it's been revealed that the Surface Pro 3 has the same battery as the Surface Pro 2. The Surface Pro 2 hardly gets more than 6 hours of battery life in real life use, and the Surface Pro 3 adds a bigger, higher resolution display. I honestly don't think it's going to spell anything good for the device's battery performance in real life use.
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Specs say 9 hours for internet browsing, that's pretty darn good for what it packs. Most baytrail tablets are in the same range, maybe an hour more at the most. The ipad air is rated at 10 hours for wifi browsing as well, but I thought we all agreed we aren't comparing these to each other. 1 hour less for a FULL operating system with a real CPU is pretty amazing. MS has also been quite conservative in its battery estimates, they know this may vary widely depending on how much you stress the CPU. I think it's VERY impressive that the SP3 can keep up with the ipad in terms of battery life and they are not even meant to be compared.
 
2 fatal flaws:

- Lack of being a proper laptop with a strong solid base
- Runs Windows 8.1(****** app store)
 
SlCKB0Y said:
It is for screen brightness as well.



Yea I compared the base models of both because they will be a very similar price once you get the keyboard for the surface.
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Just as I thought for the sensor.

I see why you would compare the two based on price, but they're priced differently because they're not the same product and each offers different benefits and features. Comparing an i5 product to an i3 is pointless and misleading especially when comparing the two's computing power alone and not taking into account the benefits and features it does have over the MBA. That was the whole point of my original comment. The keyboard is optional, and as useful as it is, it's not necessary. If you look back at my original post I describe what you're getting for the price difference even if you include the keyboard it's clear why there is a price difference.
 
The larger version of this ties in perfectly to the resolution of the iPad Air...

Where as the price is that of a BTO MBA 13'

Personally, I reckon it's Microsoft saying... "We need to get a foot in the door in the "premium" market and shake things up a bit"

And I think the Surface Pro 3 is 'just that'
 
Tech198 said:
The larger version of this ties in perfectly to the resolution of the iPad Air...

Where as the price is that of a BTO MBA 13'

Personally, I reckon it's Microsoft saying... "We need to get a foot in the door in the "premium" market and shake things up a bit"

And I think the Surface Pro 3 is 'just that'
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I wonder if iOS 8 brings a mouse cursor to enable an iPad Pro.

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HenryDJP said:
I really like how Microsoft made this about Apple only. There are plenty of people using Windows laptops and Android tablets....but I guess Microsoft felt that if they attacked Apple during the keynote the way they did that nobody would think about Windows customers with Android tablets.
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This is very pertinent, since I bought a Nexus 7(2013) last summer instead of a Windows 8 tablet due to:

price & app selection and good hardware for the price $299.
 
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