Microsoft Introduces Thinner Surface Pro 3 with 12" Display Starting at $799

[PinkyMacGodess]

MSFT is in the hardware business, and has been on some level for years.

Little thing called Xbox. Been around for 13 years, first generation failed, 2nd was beast mode, third generation is doing well.

On the Xbox: Every store I've been in has the new Xbox One sitting in piles. Lots of them available. The PlayStation 4 is harder to come by, and even with the new Sony box not being compatible with the previous gen, the Xbox isn't selling out. Smells like a flop to me... And with their history of failures and tone deaf response to same, I think they burned too many people, and are reaping the 'benefits'.

 

[Marc-SP]

I said from a glance... You cannot even deny that a 2:3 screened tablet with a silver edge/back and a logo/button at the bottom looks like an iPad from first glance. And everything still advertises it as a landscape device with a keyboard attached so I stand by that statement also. It's a desktop OS, no one uses that vertically unless it's a secondary monitor.

I deny it

It's a full featured OS, not a desktop-only OS. Many modern (a.k.a. windows store) apps work pretty well in portrait, specially with the new form factor. OneNote is the main suspect here

 

[tdale]

Me too. However, I am coming to the conclusion that the iPad will never fulfill my needs if Apple insists to keep it so simple. It may work for a lot of people, but I see little use for it myself.

I only use mine for consumption. But with the ideas stated, it would not take a rewrite to really enhance it as productive. I'm warming to the concept of the SP3, and while Apple won't do one, they can make it compelling to own a MBA and an iPad if the latter was less focussed on consumption and opened up a little to be a mini OSX (not in look and feel, in openness and capability)

An idea. Option to buy a MBA with no screen, and the iPad Pro had the ability to clip to the screenless MBA. More expensive than an SP3, but more complete as a laptop mode and as a tablet mode. It would be a real laptop and a real tablet. With the added capability of the iPad iOS for productivity. Food for thought.

To me, thats Apples answer to "not doing it first, but doing it right"

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I deny it

It's a full featured OS, not a desktop-only OS. Many modern (a.k.a. windows store) apps work pretty well in portrait, specially with the new form factor. OneNote is the main suspect here

Windows 8 is a full featured desktop OS and it includes Metro, the tablet OS. Thats pretty good, and compelling in a hybrid. Apple can differentiate by sticking to a dedicated desktop OS and a dedicated tablet OS, with the added feature set in iOS that some if us have recently commented on on the last page or so of this thread

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On the Xbox: Every store I've been in has the new Xbox One sitting in piles. Lots of them available. The PlayStation 4 is harder to come by, and even with the new Sony box not being compatible with the previous gen, the Xbox isn't selling out. Smells like a flop to me... And with their history of failures and tone deaf response to same, I think they burned too many people, and are reaping the 'benefits'.

I'm not a gamer but I now gamers. From what I gather, and read, both consoles are pretty damn good, and selling well

 

[Menneisyys2]

Well, I googled nplayer to have a read. Came across a MR thread. The poster also mentioned AVPLayer, then I noticed it was you! Had a long read, very interesting.

Yup, I've posted tons of articles here at the MR forums on multimedia.

I always though that non iOS supported formats were SW only, and that third party apps just allowed them to be played (in SW)

All these third-player apps (except for JB'n ones, which can directly access the hardware and play back non-interlaced, non-BD-bitrate H.264 via the hardware) use a trick: they silently re-pack the original MKV / MTS file into mov / mp4 / m4v ones while playback. While this have certain problems (these apps are much slower to quickly re-position inside the files; none of them, except for Infuse, can play back MKV's over AirPlay etc.), this certainly results, in most cases, nearly-hardware-level playback.

Does nPlayer and AVPlayerHD support a wide range of video formats?

Yup. Nevertheless, for plain compliance for scarce codecs, VLC is also recommended. It, however, still can't play back MKV's and the like in hardware; that is, only use it for formats not playable in hardware at all (that is, non-H.264 video tracks and the like).

Thanks very much!

You're welcome

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My iPad needs neither...

You don't. People wanting to, say, remotely access a desktop do. This is why the Net is full of "Apple, give us mouse support!" posts.

 

[spinedoc77]

9 hours isn't going to happen. I've owned a Surface Pro 2 and it gets 7 hours at most. And that's really pushing it. Internet browsing non-stop is more like 5-6 hours. AnAndTech already saw the Surface Pro 3 and it has the same battery as the Surface Pro 2 in terms of capacity. Put in the high resolution display, the rest should be logical.

Apple is probably the only company whose battery estimates are actually accurate compared to real life performance. The Surface Pro 2 isn't in any way even comparable to the MacBook Airs, let alone the iPad when it comes to battery performance. The Surface Pro 3 isn't going to either.

Wait for Surface Pro 4 with Broadwell.

Survey says....eeeehhhhhh
Microsoft specifically said 20% more battery life than the surface 2. Anandtech has a battery review which puts the surface 2 at 8.3 hours of wifi internet browsing: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7478/microsoft-surface-pro-2-firmware-update-improves-battery-life 20% of 8.3 is about 1.6 hours, so roughly the surface 3 should get 10 hours wifi internet browsing.

Once again, MS is quite conservative with their battery estimates. In this case the reality is better than what MS has estimated.

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It's not a 'replacement for a laptop', it IS a laptop. You 'need' a keyboard and you 'need' a mouse. My iPad needs neither...

I smell a Zune Moment coming... The desperation is getting hard to miss...

No you don't. You don't need a keyboard or a mouse for it unless you want to use it that way. Just like you don't need a keyboard for the ipad yet there are a TON of ipad keyboards for sale out there. Mouse, well you don't have that option AT ALL on the ipad, doh.

Zune moment is indeed coming, but with Windows RT. I don't think the surface Pro will hit anywhere near ipad numbers, but I do think it will be successful as in profitable for MS. I don't smell desperation at all, rather I smell innovation. Keep in mind also that MS doesn't expect to become a hardware company like Apple, much of the surface strategy is to kickstart the OEMs to produce better hardware. MS does just fine with selling software and cloud services.

 

[ross7777]

I just noticed this has a micro SD slot. Not full size. That's an odd choice.

So now I need to either get an adapter or buy micro cards for my SLR? No thanks.

This needs to have a full size SD slot and more than one USB port to be a laptop replacement.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I just noticed this has a micro SD slot. Not full size. That's an odd choice.

So now I need to either get an adapter or buy micro cards for my SLR? No thanks.

This needs to have a full size SD slot and more than one USB port to be a laptop replacement.

Well, to be fair most tablets and smartphones have an mSD slot. This may be aimed at replacing the laptop and tablet but it's still by it's very nature a tablet.

Also, at this point in tech trends I am sure MS and others want you to purchase a WiFi enabled camera that sends the pics wirelessly.

Lastly, you still have to buy an adaptor for all of the other tablets out there.

p.s. if you're talking about using the SP3 to replace an ultrabook then I see your gripes.

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It's not a 'replacement for a laptop', it IS a laptop. You 'need' a keyboard and you 'need' a mouse. My iPad needs neither...

I smell a Zune Moment coming... The desperation is getting hard to miss...

No actually you don't. Even the old SP2 and other 8" tablets have better touch keyboards than the iPad.

Then there's the bevy of keyboard options for the iPad on the market. Every iPad I see has a thick keyboard case attached to it.

Can the iPad even use a mouse?

 

[jedifaka]

Microsoft's Vision for Itself

Zune moment is indeed coming, but with Windows RT. I don't think the surface Pro will hit anywhere near ipad numbers, but I do think it will be successful as in profitable for MS. I don't smell desperation at all, rather I smell innovation. Keep in mind also that MS doesn't expect to become a hardware company like Apple, much of the surface strategy is to kickstart the OEMs to produce better hardware. MS does just fine with selling software and cloud services.[/QUOTE]

I can't forecast the success or failure of the SP3 (although I suddenly wish my corporate laptop was eligible for replacement!), but Microsoft has very clearly stated its intention to recast itself as a devices and services company.
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-device-and-services-2013-8
It remains to be seen if they can pull off that kind of transformation, but they're all in on the switch. If the Zune was a (failed) hardware experiment, the Surface is betting the farm.

 

[IJ Reilly]

What's wrong with reiterating that Surface is a complete failure to date? Why double-down on a failed product? MS should get out of hardware completely and focus on cloud.

Because it doesn't respond to anything I actually said. Follow?

 

[DarthMoops]

Worth noting, it was the aspect ratio of the iPhone before the iPhone 5.

You get a lot of content on screen with 3:2 compared to 16:9.

Personally I think the experience on all 16:9 tablets sucks. 16:10 is marginally better but still kinda crappy. This is why most android tablets feel dreadful.

The iPad is 4:3.

Image

Excellent post, good to see the ratios directly in relation to each other.

 

[spinedoc77]

I can't forecast the success or failure of the SP3 (although I suddenly wish my corporate laptop was eligible for replacement!), but Microsoft has very clearly stated its intention to recast itself as a devices and services company.
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-device-and-services-2013-8
It remains to be seen if they can pull off that kind of transformation, but they're all in on the switch. If the Zune was a (failed) hardware experiment, the Surface is betting the farm.

True, but they aren't abandoning the software or cloud business. If anything devices will be the way to sell more software and cloud services.

Although I love the surface Pro I have serious doubts about MS strategy. They should have made an Atom powered surface instead of the surface Pro 1 IMO. This would have competed with an ipad in every single category, thinness, price, battery, weight, etc but would have also had full windows on it. Instead they hedged their bets as a devices company and promised the OEM's they could have Atom. MS bet the low end of the market on RT with disastrous results, consumers either bought an Atom tablet or a non-windows tablet.

With the introduction of the SP3 now almost all the barriers have been removed, except for price. We still have OEM's weakly making Atom tablets, but they don't hold a candle to the quality of the surface tablets.

MS needs devices, whether it's their own or OEM's, to sell their software and cloud services. But they are making mistakes in both the low end and high end. The SP3 is finally the right hardware for the premium, high end market, but still leaves the low end market wide open to the ipad and even lower to android.

 

[Technarchy]

The Verge review is in and it is very Good.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/23/5743416/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

 

[HenryDJP]

It still can't be used seriously in the business world.

1. no guaranteed backwards comparability. Early iwork versions can't be read on the current version. However, MS office can open every excel version's files since the dawn of time.
2. windows users, which make up 90% of the computer market, can't read your files. Yes, you can export to Excel, but there is no guarantee that it will be 100% the same on MS Excel.
3. Excel is the standard. It has been for years, and it would take a lot to remove it's market position.

You're exactly the customer Microsoft wants and needs.

 

[smoledman]

Zune moment or not, MS has the deep cash reserves to keep iterating to Surface Pro 4, 5, 6 and so on no matter how they keep flopping.

 

[Freyqq]

You're exactly the customer Microsoft wants and needs.

Apple could fix some of those issues in their software... specifically the backwards compatibility issue. Thy could also add features to create parity with office, but they probably won't. IWorks is designed for consumers, and office is designed for business. That's not a bad thing, just different markets that they are catering to.

 

[smoledman]

The Verge review is in and it is very Good.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/23/5743416/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

Yeah an 8.0 while Apple products get 9.0 and higher.

 

[slash7844]

It doesn't. It has SUMIFS() which does the exact same thing, I am very happy to have discovered just this past Monday.

If Numbers' SUMIFS are similar to that of Excel's SUMIFS, no they are not same.

 

[smoledman]

So with The Verge's battery test it got 7h 50min compared to 7h 33min for the SP2. Not impressive at all. Think about it - the 13" MBA Air gets you anywhere from 11 to 13 hours. For most people having the higher resolution is not that important and touch on a laptop is non-essential.

 

[skaertus]

It still can't be used seriously in the business world.

1. no guaranteed backwards comparability. Early iwork versions can't be read on the current version. However, MS office can open every excel version's files since the dawn of time.
2. windows users, which make up 90% of the computer market, can't read your files. Yes, you can export to Excel, but there is no guarantee that it will be 100% the same on MS Excel.
3. Excel is the standard. It has been for years, and it would take a lot to remove it's market position.

Yes, you are right. iWork is a joke. Your kid can use it to do homework. However, if you work in a serious corporation, you simply cannot rely on iWork. You have to use Microsoft Office, because it is the world's standard. You cannot rely that iWork will be 99% compatible, because, in the corporate world, your competitors are 100% compatible. If you do real business, the cost of using Microsoft Office is minimal compared to the hassles of living without it.

Of course, if you are a home user, or if you have a small business and you do not need full compatibility, then you may not see the need of Microsoft Office, or you may think it is too expensive or you may want to try something different. But ask the IT department of any Fortune 500 company if they could even consider using iWork, OpenOffice or any other thing other than Microsoft Office. It is very likely that, apart from Apple, none of these companies can even think of using anything that is not Microsoft Office.

This is one of the main reasons why, as good as it may be, the iPad is nothing but a beautiful accessory and a nice topic for conversation in the fancy meeting rooms of the business world.

 

[slash7844]

1. Very true - but on the other hand, you have been able to upgrade every iWork file to the next upgrade, so as long as you keep your files up-to-date with conversions with every major release, you are OK. Agree that this is not ideal.

2. Internal sharing of documents is not affected by this if you are using OSX as your front end from a top down corporate level perspective. External sharing I don't want that information presented or editable to 3rd parties in any case. Export what you want to show as a PDF, keep the data tables internal.

3. True, but if you can do Excel, you can do Numbers, and learn it well. I am not saying Excel isn't the standard, I am saying that there is no longer a compelling reason why this should be so, other than the main effort involved of actually making the switch if you are stuck and entrenched in a Windows box world.

I use Numbers seriously in the business world every day. I agree with you that major companies in well established industries with a long history cannot simply migrate, we've already been over that. I've had the advantage to be in a position to influence our corporate front end platform from a very early stage, so our switch was almost completely effortless. When I hire new people to my finance department, they have to be willing to drop Excel for Numbers. At my company, Numbers is the standard, not Excel.

1. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

2. Most of the times, 3rd parties need to actually use the data on the spreadsheet, whether they modify the spreadsheet or copy and paste data to their own spreadsheet. It is a nightmare to export the PDF to usable spreadsheet and they rarely export in correct format. If I requested a report and I get them in PDF, I'd request it in Excel format again.

3. There isn't a compelling reason why not to use standard spreadsheet and have to go through series of import/export while risking data integrity.

Dropping Excel for Numbers is like dropping Photoshop for Paint.

 

[uknowimright]

So with The Verge's battery test it got 7h 50min compared to 7h 33min for the SP2. Not impressive at all. Think about it - the 13" MBA Air gets you anywhere from 11 to 13 hours. For most people having the higher resolution is not that important and touch on a laptop is non-essential.

The Verge's battery testing method is not impressive at all

 

[mclld]

The verge is like the tech site for dummies when it comes to actual reviews.

 

[LordVic]

The Verge's battery testing method is not impressive at all

I've noticed that a good majority of the review sites these days have deplorable "testing" routines that they claim is accurate or can give accurate battery run down tests.

"we set the screen brightness to 50% and ran DIVX video till the device died!"

there is nothing scientific about this. nothing that can be easily reproduced or tested amongst all different devices.

Be scientific. thats all i ask in my reviews. Showcase numbers with real values... 50% brightness is a completely meaningless statistic. one device at 50% brightness might only use 50nits. Yet another device at 50% brightness might be using 200nits!

 

[uknowimright]

The verge is like the tech site for dummies when it comes to actual reviews.

site had potential when it launched, it's approaching National Enquirer/TMZ of tech levels now though

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I've noticed that a good majority of the review sites these days have deplorable "testing" routines that they claim is accurate or can give accurate battery run down tests.

"we set the screen brightness to 50% and ran DIVX video till the device died!"

there is nothing scientific about this. nothing that can be easily reproduced or tested amongst all different devices.

Be scientific. thats all i ask in my reviews. Showcase numbers with real values... 50% brightness is a completely meaningless statistic. one device at 50% brightness might only use 50nits. Yet another device at 50% brightness might be using 200nits!

this is why Anandtech rules

 

[LordVic]

this is why Anandtech rules

yup. Anandtech is one of the best review sites you can find. All their reviews are very VERY heavy on facts and statistics, but its one fo the only sites I know that will give you a really good review.