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Microsoft Introduces Thinner Surface Pro 3 with 12" Display Starting at $799

Menneisyys2 said:
Nevertheless, a much more capable inter-app file sharing capability would be more than welcome - for example, to share multi-Gigabyte video files between video players. (Currently, there's no "best" video player. To achieve everything you can do, you need to grant access to at least two different players to the same file, assuming it's, say, an MKV file. For more info: I've published tons of info on this HERE, in my symlink bible.)

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I'd LOVE such a thing - to be able to run all my apps, both iOS and OS X, in ONE device to take with me. Particularly if it supported Wacom / n-trig styli and if it had a powerful CPU and 8+ GB of RAM, so it could be even used for serious work.
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Agree on file system, my thoughts were that file system access on iOS will never happen, but access via the default app is still more than workable. File s haring, yes, another not needed restriction.

Your thoughts on the OSX/iOS device is what the SP3 is, and it is compelling if the hardware form factor was ok enough. Compromise, yes, but if the compromise is smaller than the benefit, yes, great idea
 
paulsdenton said:
Well both; when the keyboard is attached, it would be a laptop and when not attached it would be a tablet. I was getting at the method of attachment. The magnetic system works well on a table, but not so well when used on your lap or in places like classrooms where there is space constraint and a laptop would be more usable. I did not mean a permanently attached keyboard. Sorry for the imprecision!
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Lots of feedback from professional reviewers seem to regard the new hinge and keyboard attachment design as quite stable and rigid. Not like a full laptop, but far ahead of previous surface models.

Limited desk space is a very good point.
 
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Technarchy said:
Lots of feedback from progressional reviewers seem to regard the new hinge and keyboard attachment design as quite stable and rigid. Not like a full laptop, but far ahead of previous surface models.
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My concern is how will those hinges hold up over the next months and even years of daily use. Its a rhetorical question since we don't know the answer to that - only time will tell.
 
maflynn said:
My concern is how will those hinges hold up over the next months and even years of daily use. Its a rhetorical question since we don't know the answer to that - only time will tell.
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If nothing else, Surfaces are known to be built VERY tough. This has been the case since the first generation.

But it is a valid concern. MSFT seemed intent on alleviating concerns about the hinge design during the reveal.

I personally would not be dissuaded because of the design.
 
PinkyMacGodess said:
On the Xbox: Every store I've been in has the new Xbox One sitting in piles. Lots of them available. The PlayStation 4 is harder to come by, and even with the new Sony box not being compatible with the previous gen, the Xbox isn't selling out. Smells like a flop to me... And with their history of failures and tone deaf response to same, I think they burned too many people, and are reaping the 'benefits'.
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Every store I've been to had ipads in stock. What's your point???
 
maflynn said:
[MOD NOTE]
Stop the bickering, if you cannot discuss the topic, then move on to another thread.
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Good point. A lot of the bickering is between iOS crowd and OSX/Windows fans. Sometimes the people who are in love with their iPads cannot understand why I want a file system, a file manager and no walled garden.

From my point of view iPads are just bigger, more powerful iPhones that can't make telephone calls. iOS is OK on my iPhone because I use it as a real telephone and an (OK quality) music player.

It makes perfect sense to me that if a user really wants the features of a traditional OS then iOS would seem kind of dumb. On the other hand if the most useful computer you've ever owned in an iPad then the thought of going back to Windows or Mac would seem overly complicated without many benefits.
 
scottsjack said:
Good point. A lot of the bickering is between iOS crowd and OSX/Windows fans. Sometimes the people who are in love with their iPads cannot understand why I want a file system, a file manager and no walled garden.
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Since I was involved, I can tell you that you are dead wrong. ;)
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
I don't get your response. WTF does your dislike of Launchpad have to do with anything? You don't have to use Launchpad in OSX and natural scrolling can be turned off as well.
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Easy there. All it means is that I didn't like having iOS features in OS X. Yes I have it all turned off but the point was sometimes combining the two and expecting it to be a good idea doesn't always pan out. This is what I meant by specializing and focusing on each device's strengths. A Launchpad-like interface and natural scrolling benefits iOS devices, but not so much OS X users on laptops/desktops lacking a touch interface.

If you're implying it should only have OSX, that wouldn't exactly fit the tablet aspect of the device seeing OSX doesn't really support operation as a tablet plus it would be nice to be able to run some iOS software even on a normal Mac computer (e.g. games). I've never understood why they don't have an iOS emulation mode for the Mac other than for developers. I see nothing wrong with adding features of one OS to the other so long as they're just OPTIONAL.
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That's because there's limits to what you can do in an emulation environment. Apple's intent appears IMHO to keep it simple. They provide something similar through having remote access to services that could accomplish the same... but then it'd be a inferior experience on an iPad than on a MBP for example.

Launchpad could be useful if they made it easier to organize. I had mine all set up under categories for Apps and then it suddenly unorganized itself and dumped everything out of the folders one day for no apparent reason (bug or something). They don't make it even slightly easy to move the things around from screen to screen, etc. It just comes across as half-arse implemented and Apple doesn't seem interested in fixing or enhancing it, much like everything else where they start something and then don't finish it.
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My thoughts exactly. IMHO if Launchpad became more useful, it'd be not much different than MS Application Launcher with a different look. If I were to have a say in how changes were to be made, I'd like to have it similar to my TV where I can set "Favorites" to all my frequently used Apps with the ability to expand to show all Applications.

I'd prefer an Apple tablet to have full OSX with an iOS "mode" on it. iOS is far too limiting and Apple trying to impose their wishes (i.e. greed) on you by not allowing file transfers, limiting your AV file format choices, etc. to their stuff so that you will BUY BUY BUY crap off the iTunes store is ultimately immoral, IMO. It's a small wonder so many people jailbreak their Apple devices. It's your computer. You should be able to run whatever software you want on it. Letting some company tell you what you can and cannot do is the first step to an Orwellian nightmare. In fact, Steve Jobs always struck me as the type to put such a system in place (despite their iconic ad implying the opposite; ironic eh?). It was always Steve's way or the highway. I was hoping things would change now that he's gone and we'd start getting some progress for better file format support in iTunes, etc. but OSX has even LESS support now that Quicktime X doesn't support plugins and Perian stopped updating at the worst possible time (e.g. space bar previews don't do jack anymore unless it's Apple's favorite formats).
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I too end up Jailbreaking all of my devices to add features I wished iOS would have, like SwipeSelection, etc. It is frustrating that it is limited to supporting only some file formats and such, but Apple's already explained why through Steve Jobs. I don't agree with it, but that's where I have to agree to disagree. There has to be reasons why Apple didn't release an iPad-OS X.
 
A bit off topic, but oh well.

To the people complaining about the iPad having no stylus: I take notes in college using Notability and an iPad stylus from BoxWave. Works great for me, am I missing something here?
 
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sflomenb said:
A bit off topic, but oh well.

To the people complaining about the iPad having no stylus: I take notes in college using Notability and an iPad stylus from BoxWave. Works great for me, am I missing something here?
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As the others have already pointed out: you should give a try to Wacom or n-trig pens at least once. They're orders of magnitude better than anything available on the iPad. Heck, even old-style resistive styli were better than capacitive ones...
 
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Tinmania said:
Yes you are missing the difference between writing using a dull crayon and a fine pen.



Mike
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Agreed, once I used the stylus on the Note 2 and the Surface Pro I was sold on the idea that touch devices should have at the very least the option for a REAL integrated pen solution.

Like they did ten years ago.
 
maflynn said:
My concern is how will those hinges hold up over the next months and even years of daily use. Its a rhetorical question since we don't know the answer to that - only time will tell.
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I don't think it'll be a problem for the most part, but as with all manufacturing issues, the Surface will have a few defects from time to time, no different from iDevices.

Most people would not end up keeping their SP's (or iPads) for more than 3 years think. Batteries will likely cycle themselves out and the generation gap will likely start to show between the latest models.
 
Hyper-X said:
I don't think it'll be a problem for the most part, but as with all manufacturing issues, the Surface will have a few defects from time to time, no different from iDevices.

Most people would not end up keeping their SP's (or iPads) for more than 3 years think. Batteries will likely cycle themselves out and the generation gap will likely start to show between the latest models.
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Generally, desktop-class processors / devices don't age as fast as mobile ones.

An example: an iPad 1 is considered absolutely useless today. A first-generation Core i-based, say, MBP, manufactured in H1 2010 (the same time as the iPad1)? They're still going strong and many of their users find them (like me with my MBP 17") adequate even as of now.
 
Menneisyys2 said:
Generally, desktop-class processors / devices don't age as fast as mobile ones.

An example: an iPad 1 is considered absolutely useless today. A first-generation Core i-based, say, MBP, manufactured in H1 2010 (the same time as the iPad1)? They're still going strong and many of their users find them (like me with my MBP 17") adequate even as of now.
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I agree. I picked up the wife's (my former) iPad 2 a few days ago thinking I can see if I really like iOS7 enough to go back to Apple's tablets and I have to say that the thing is SLOW.

Meanwhile, she still uses her near 5 years old 13" Macbook Pro and 7 year old 24" iMac without a hitch.

I keep saying that this post-PC era that Jobs was talking about was a myth until Microsoft came in with the surface and an full fledged OS that could boot up on 8" tablets.

Those machines are real desktop replacements. With the iPad, it's very VERY nice but most will still need a full PC to complement.
 
We've absolutely hit the point of diminishing returns with Desktop class CPU's, where your modern, everyday desktop CPU has so much additional overhead of performance that, your average, everyday user, will hardly touch upon the power they have available.

I think we probably hit this point around the Ivy Bridge days. any i5 desktop CPU (maybe even the i3's) are more than enough for your average computing. Chatting online, Facebook and even gaming (with a good GPU).

There was an article on Anandtech a few months ago, where they decided to see just how much CPU power is being used while gaming. Basically, the CPU was barely ever a bottleneck till they started cranking out super high rez gaming with 2 or 3 GPUs

This is basically why we're seeing for the average user, 2-5 year old computers are still more than powerful enough. Heck for many users 5+ year old hardware with an updated SSD is more than enough.

Tablets aren't anywhere in this realm yet. ARM cpu's have come leaps and bounds over the last decade to being very compentent low power specialist CPU's. But they do not have the overhead yet to make the devices last truly a long time. Thats why Ipad1's, 2s and even 4s can seem sluggish by todays standards, and feel like they date themselves quickly.
 
Digital Skunk said:
I agree. I picked up the wife's (my former) iPad 2 a few days ago thinking I can see if I really like iOS7 enough to go back to Apple's tablets and I have to say that the thing is SLOW.

Meanwhile, she still uses her near 5 years old 13" Macbook Pro and 7 year old 24" iMac without a hitch.

I keep saying that this post-PC era that Jobs was talking about was a myth until Microsoft came in with the surface and an full fledged OS that could boot up on 8" tablets.

Those machines are real desktop replacements. With the iPad, it's very VERY nice but most will still need a full PC to complement.
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Yeah Jobs "Post PC era" crap can be interpreted as "Post PC era, except you have to buy a macbook PC to go along with your Post PC ipad". I knew from the minute I first started using the ipad that it would not usher in a post PC era, I still fell in love with it though, but still kept my PC.

Fast forward to this. I wouldn't call it a post PC era, but rather a Post-desktop/laptop era. You carry your MAIN PC with you, and when at home/work simply dock it, no more need for a desktop aka a big beige box.
 
spinedoc77 said:
Yeah Jobs "Post PC era" crap can be interpreted as "Post PC era, except you have to buy a macbook PC to go along with your Post PC ipad". I knew from the minute I first started using the ipad that it would not usher in a post PC era, I still fell in love with it though, but still kept my PC.

Fast forward to this. I wouldn't call it a post PC era, but rather a Post-desktop/laptop era. You carry your MAIN PC with you, and when at home/work simply dock it, no more need for a desktop aka a big beige box.
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Brother (or sister) I was suckered into that stuff. I didn't try to use my iPad to replace my main PC, but i tried hard. Eventually I woke up and after $200+ in 3rd party apps and accessories i realized that the iPad just wasn't going to cut it in terms of being even a slightly effective PC replacement.

It's great at digesting content, and making quick alterations to things. Then it's great at doing one very specific thing that heavily involved a touch screen.

Sadly, I've learned this about most tablets. save for the ones running full desktop operating systems. . . . . . . ;)
 
Digital Skunk said:
Brother (or sister) I was suckered into that stuff. I didn't try to use my iPad to replace my main PC, but i tried hard. Eventually I woke up and after $200+ in 3rd party apps and accessories i realized that the iPad just wasn't going to cut it in terms of being even a slightly effective PC replacement.
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I tried too. I'm convinced it's still doable. I don't think the limitation is hardware though. I think it's software. Problem is iOS + Android are budget software markets.

The most important thing MS did IMO was stick x86 on a tablet. Giving people access to the x86 ecosystem full of software that isn't a commoditized mess.
 
Liquorpuki said:
I tried too. I'm convinced it's still doable. I don't think the limitation is hardware though. I think it's software. Problem is iOS + Android are budget software markets.

The most important thing MS did IMO was stick x86 on a tablet. Giving people access to the x86 ecosystem full of software that isn't a commoditized mess.
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THANK YOU! I love REAL conversations and YES! MS did a good thing with that. Sadly it was done almost a decade ago but with the tech as it was then most folks didn't see the benefit and didn't like the total package.

The iPad is still IMHO the best overall package for a mobile device, but then . . . . . . then comes that moment when you need to open up ______________


Place the app of your choice there. For me it was always MS Office, or Photoshop or Avid or . . . . . . .
 
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