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What is attractive about that? A buddy of mine has an RT and in the beginning he was touting the USB port (which I think is outdated at this point). He then quickly realized that when he uses the USB port for things like storage or what not, the battery of the Surface RT is quickly drained. Now he doesn't use the feature that he touted. I'm curious if the keyboard is similar in battery consumption?

Having a keyboard that I have to spend $100+ on so that it can click in and be stationary doesn't sound very attractive to me. A Bluetooth portable keyboard that I could use with multiple devices and cost less than $100 is more attractive IMHO but to each there own.

I never said it was more attractive, I was only responding to the person who said they could "find everything they think is exclusive to Surface" for their ipad.

Otherwise it's just a difference of how we use our tablets, you are not wrong, but I am not wrong either.
 
What is attractive about that? A buddy of mine has an RT and in the beginning he was touting the USB port (which I think is outdated at this point). He then quickly realized that when he uses the USB port for things like storage or what not, the battery of the Surface RT is quickly drained. Now he doesn't use the feature that he touted. I'm curious if the keyboard is similar in battery consumption?

Having a keyboard that I have to spend $100+ on so that it can click in and be stationary doesn't sound very attractive to me. A Bluetooth portable keyboard that I could use with multiple devices and cost less than $100 is more attractive IMHO but to each there own.
USB outdated?
Now you're reaching to find something wrong with the Surface.

$100 for a keyboard that doubles as a tablet cover.
The Apple iPad cover is priced at $49.99 with no keyboard.

BT is so reliable using the same 2Ghz freq as WifI and a billion other devices.
I won't even get in to how many times a day my Apple Magic touchpad loses connection as I use it.
 
USB outdated?
Now you're reaching to find something wrong with the Surface.

$100 for a keyboard that doubles as a tablet cover.
The Apple iPad cover is priced at $49.99 with no keyboard.

BT is so reliable using the same 2Ghz freq as WifI and a billion other devices.
I won't even get in to how many times a day my Apple Magic touchpad loses connection as I use it.

I do think it's outdated. I think the world is moving toward wireless connections. This is just my opinion though. I don't find any portable device with a USB mouse/keyboard cord laying around sucking power attractive. A wireless mouse/keyboard on the other hand fits the bill and is not proprietary (referencing the click in keyboard) to that one device.

A cover and keyboard is not required or needed for an iPad. You could get by without them just fine. The Surface damn near requires it especially when you launch the desktop optimized Office.

I've never had issues with any Bluetooth devices so your mileage may vary.
 
I do think it's outdated. I think the world is moving toward wireless connections. This is just my opinion though. I don't find any portable device with a USB mouse/keyboard cord laying around sucking power attractive. A wireless mouse/keyboard on the other hand fits the bill and is not proprietary (referencing the click in keyboard) to that one device.

A cover and keyboard is not required or needed for an iPad. You could get by without them just fine. The Surface damn near requires it especially when you launch the desktop optimized Office.

I've never had issues with any Bluetooth devices so your mileage may vary.

And you believe that wireless devices(RF) require no additional power load on the tablet to keep each device connected?

The Surface does NOT require a keyboard but it's version is much nicer and compact than what is available for the iPad.
 
I do think it's outdated. I think the world is moving toward wireless connections. This is just my opinion though. I don't find any portable device with a USB mouse/keyboard cord laying around sucking power attractive. A wireless mouse/keyboard on the other hand fits the bill and is not proprietary (referencing the click in keyboard) to that one device.

A cover and keyboard is not required or needed for an iPad. You could get by without them just fine. The Surface damn near requires it especially when you launch the desktop optimized Office.

I've never had issues with any Bluetooth devices so your mileage may vary.

That's just the way YOU use your tablet. I never understood why limiting your choices is seen as "progress", but to each his own and I respect that you are smart enough to pick a tablet which fulfills your needs, as I myself am. For having the same size, weight, thinness, etc as an ipad but getting freebies like a usb port, hey I'll take it, there is no trade off for me.

As for the whole keyboard cover thing, this is once again opinion but I find the surface keyboard pretty darn incredible. It's pretty unbelievable how thin it is, the ipad has nothing anywhere near as thin. That it just snaps in and is powered by the tablet is also huge for me, and it doesn't use much battery at all, although I'm too lazy to look up specs. Once again though, just opinion.

Also the surface does NOT require a keyboard any more than an ipad does, but nice try at exaggerating. If you want to word process on an ipad you need a keyboard just as much as you do on a surface tablet.
 
And you believe that wireless devices(RF) require no additional power load on the tablet to keep each device connected?

The Surface does NOT require a keyboard but it's version is much nicer and compact than what is available for the iPad.

While wireless devices do consume power for the connection, they typically have their own power source so its not as bad as say a plug in device that uses the source as a power supply.

What's nicer is subjective. Microsoft is writing off $900 million for Surface tablets and keyboards because they are nice and compact sitting in warehouses. :)

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That's just the way YOU use your tablet. I never understood why limiting your choices is seen as "progress", but to each his own and I respect that you are smart enough to pick a tablet which fulfills your needs, as I myself am. For having the same size, weight, thinness, etc as an ipad but getting freebies like a usb port, hey I'll take it, there is no trade off for me.

As for the whole keyboard cover thing, this is once again opinion but I find the surface keyboard pretty darn incredible. It's pretty unbelievable how thin it is, the ipad has nothing anywhere near as thin. That it just snaps in and is powered by the tablet is also huge for me, and it doesn't use much battery at all, although I'm too lazy to look up specs. Once again though, just opinion.

Also the surface does NOT require a keyboard any more than an ipad does, but nice try at exaggerating. If you want to word process on an ipad you need a keyboard just as much as you do on a surface tablet.

Linky just for you
 
While wireless devices do consume power for the connection, they typically have their own power source so its not as bad as say a plug in device that uses the source as a power supply.

What's nicer is subjective. Microsoft is writing off $900 million for Surface tablets and keyboards because they are nice and compact sitting in warehouses. :)
Each one of your replies are circular logic answers to fulfill your own opinion with no bases for factual information.
Nothing wrong with individiual biased opinions but they usually do not reflect the common intellect of a sensible nonpartisan consumer.
 
While wireless devices do consume power for the connection, they typically have their own power source so its not as bad as say a plug in device that uses the source as a power supply.

What's nicer is subjective. Microsoft is writing off $900 million for Surface tablets and keyboards because they are nice and compact sitting in warehouses. :)

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Linky just for you

I still don't see what that proves, you still need a keyboard to word process on an ipad JUST as much as on a surface tablet. FYI Office 2013 is pretty nice in a touch tablet environment, it's been tweaked to be touch friendly. But MS is working on a Metro Office application. If you want to see how nice Office in Metro will look try out the OneNote app, I use it a lot and find it is pretty incredible.

Still, I fail to see what in particular ipad word processing apps have that makes them that much more mobile. I think we have gone too far down this "I want to write my masters thesis on the subway with one hand on the pole" path, it's getting kind of stupid. If you want to word process you are going to need a keyboard, until someone invents an input paradigm to replace typing.

PS One exception might be using the stylus, which I do use frequently for note taking. It's not useful for very long documents, although I regularly write 2-3 page assessments using just the stylus and handwriting recognition on my windows tablet. These things are useful to me, stylus support (real stylus support, not like the ipad), apps which take advantage of this like OneNote, pressure sensitive screen, palm rejection, a robust and pretty incredible handwriting recognition system baked into the OS, etc etc. Once again I'm NOT throwing the stylus out there as a typing replacement, merely as an option and IMO a better option for casual input.
 
Each one of your replies are circular logic answers to fulfill your own opinion with no bases for factual information.
Nothing wrong with individiual biased opinions but they usually do not reflect the common intellect of a sensible nonpartisan consumer.

Some of my responses are opinion and others are fact. This is stated in each of my replies. Please elaborate. I mean, is it not a fact that Microsoft wrote off $900 million because the device isn't really catching on with sensible nonpartisan consumers?

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I still don't see what that proves, you still need a keyboard to word process on an ipad JUST as much as on a surface tablet. FYI Office 2013 is pretty nice in a touch tablet environment, it's been tweaked to be touch friendly. But MS is working on a Metro Office application. If you want to see how nice Office in Metro will look try out the OneNote app, I use it a lot and find it is pretty incredible.

Still, I fail to see what in particular ipad word processing apps have that makes them that much more mobile. I think we have gone too far down this "I want to write my masters thesis on the subway with one hand on the pole" path, it's getting kind of stupid. If you want to word process you are going to need a keyboard, until someone invents an input paradigm to replace typing.

PS One exception might be using the stylus, which I do use frequently for note taking. It's not useful for very long documents, although I regularly write 2-3 page assessments using just the stylus and handwriting recognition on my windows tablet. These things are useful to me, stylus support (real stylus support, not like the ipad), apps which take advantage of this like OneNote, pressure sensitive screen, palm rejection, a robust and pretty incredible handwriting recognition system baked into the OS, etc etc. Once again I'm NOT throwing the stylus out there as a typing replacement, merely as an option and IMO a better option for casual input.

My point is that one of the Surface RT selling points is Office, no? The link I provided shows that Office is not touch friendly which means you pretty much need the keyboard. Office productivity is not a selling point for the iPad. You following me?

Now having said that, I agree with you and we discussed this before briefly. Serious work probably requires a keyboard and mouse.

Here is a quote from the article I don't think you read:

The need for simplicity

As a set of reader applications, the suite works tolerably well. Opening and scrolling through documents works, and because these are the full Office programs, files are displayed with full fidelity and functionality. However, in this context, I find it hard to understand why Microsoft made the effort it has; Even Office 2010 works adequately well for just reading documents on a touch PC.

Unfortunately, as soon as one ventures beyond mere reading, the experience becomes unsatisfactory. Finger users attempting to make edits will find themselves regularly dumped into interfaces simply not designed for imprecise input, and even if they stick to the "main" user interface (the ribbon and pop-up toolbars), that interface works poorly. The interactions with the on-screen keyboard are frustrating and the interface is cluttered, leaving too little of the working area actually visible.

Having the real Office applications and their perfect support for Office documents is valuable—but this needs to be married to simpler interfaces that are engineered around reading and light editing, and that remove entire features and user interfaces that are too complex for finger usage.

As things stand, far from being a valuable feature of Windows RT, the Office 2013 applications threaten to make it worse.
 
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Some of my responses are opinion and others are fact. This is stated in each of my replies. Please elaborate. I mean, is it not a fact that Microsoft wrote off $900 million because the device isn't really catching on with sensible nonpartisan consumers?

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My point is that one of the Surface RT selling points is Office, no? The link I provided shows that Office is not touch friendly which means you pretty much need the keyboard. Office productivity is not a selling point for the iPad. You following me?

Now having said that, I agree with you and we discussed this before briefly. Serious work probably requires a keyboard and mouse.

Here is a quote from the article I don't think you read:

The need for simplicity

As a set of reader applications, the suite works tolerably well. Opening and scrolling through documents works, and because these are the full Office programs, files are displayed with full fidelity and functionality. However, in this context, I find it hard to understand why Microsoft made the effort it has; Even Office 2010 works adequately well for just reading documents on a touch PC.

Unfortunately, as soon as one ventures beyond mere reading, the experience becomes unsatisfactory. Finger users attempting to make edits will find themselves regularly dumped into interfaces simply not designed for imprecise input, and even if they stick to the "main" user interface (the ribbon and pop-up toolbars), that interface works poorly. The interactions with the on-screen keyboard are frustrating and the interface is cluttered, leaving too little of the working area actually visible.

Having the real Office applications and their perfect support for Office documents is valuable—but this needs to be married to simpler interfaces that are engineered around reading and light editing, and that remove entire features and user interfaces that are too complex for finger usage.

As things stand, far from being a valuable feature of Windows RT, the Office 2013 applications threaten to make it worse.

Surface RT is junk, pure and utter junk. Anything negative you say about it I will agree with 100%.

As for Office 2013, yeah it's not perfect, and I can really only opine on Word 2013 and One Note as those are the only programs I use. But most of what that guy complains about is the same thing on the ipad IMO, once that onscreen keyboard gets activated anything you are working on pretty much sucks.

But I don't disagree with your last paragraph. Hey, look Office is supposedly one of MS last cash cows, they should have put every last software engineer to make sure it was Metro friendly and translated well to a tablet. Personally I think it's pretty decent on a tablet, but no I don't think it's anywhere near perfect, and perfect is what they need to compete with the ipad.

In essence I do agree with you, but I also think Office 2013 is no where near as bad as it's made out to be, unless you are using it on the subway with one hand on the pole.
 
The fact that Surface RT has a file browser and an open operating system makes it far more useful to me than my iPad.

Apple's sandbox strategy making us all out to be grandmothers who know nothing infuriates me at work. If a client likes a number of photographs I can't name them or even mark them in any way on the iPad. You resort to just taking a photo of the screen using an iPhone. It's insane.

I wanna copy a few zip files to the iPad and transfer across, nope no file system. The RT is cheaper for 32gb than the iPad is for 16gb as well.

I like the iPad because it's 4:3 (and not widescreen) so it is perfect as a studio monitor but the grandma functionality is getting so tiresome. I want to be able to use it and not just browse the web and watch movies on it all day. That is the difference that Windows stuff has, flexibility to be used anywhere for anything you want, without imposed limitations.
 
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