Microsoft Launches Zune HD

[buxtone17]

Of course when the Touch gets an OLED screen it will be the best thing since sliced bread right?

Of course it will. But only to us.

Laguna's point was that the average iPod user couldn't care less about OLED. Heck, the average iPod user has no idea what OLED, or even LED or LCD for that matter, stands for.

Think about it: How many MacRumors members are there? A couple thousand? Add in the rest of the Mac sites around the web and you've got maybe a couple hundred thousand. How many iPods has Apple sold? About 200 million. You do the math.

 

[LagunaSol]

Of course when the Touch gets an OLED screen it will be the best thing since sliced bread right?

Nice strawman.

The hardware and additional capabilities are very nice.

Sure they are. But are they enough to make it a compelling choice over the iPod touch? Nope. Do you think consumers really care about OLED and HD Radio? Really?

Apple's App Store wasn't built over night and neither will Microsoft's Zune Marketplace.

Yeah, I'm sure the guy who takes last place in a race feels better about it knowing that he was busy tying his shoe when the starter gun fired.

"Well, yeah, the winner got a head start on me. What can you do."

Hopefully Microsoft won't flood it with 50,000 flashlight type applications just for the sake of volume.

Oh please. The whole "fart app/flashlight app" chestnut was tired 6 months ago. I have over a hundred apps on my iPhone; one flashlight app, no fart apps. And there are some great apps among them, some free, some cheap, some "expensive" ($10-20). Is there a lot of cruft in the App Store? Of course. But there are a lot of solid offerings as well. And certainly far more than the Zune is going to see within the next year (or probably ever).

The PMP war is over, people. The battlefront has moved to the phone market, and Apple is kicking trash and taking names there too. The Zune HD is a desperate gasp for acknowledgement from Microsoft; a holdover, money-bleeding product to stick on retail shelves (where they will likely gather dust) until they can launch their iPhone knockoff (you know it's coming).

 

[BongoBanger]

Only Microsoft and Microsoft's chosen 3rd party developers will have access to the Zune Marketplace, there is no SDK and it won't be open to anyone. You can whine about Apple's approval process and call it "control freak" all you want, this is 10x worse.

True but this assumes that:

a) An app store is really that important to most people given that MS will ship the 'must have' apps anyway.
b) That they won't integrate it later with an update or the next model.

Look, I'm not being a fanboy since MS have effectively shafted me by not releasing it in the UK which is annoying but this thing looks gorgeous and given I've got a phone loaded with apps anyway it's not an issue for me and probably quite a lot of others.

The iPod Touch will eat its lunch in terms of sales but that doesn't stop it being utterly beautiful.

 

[rjohnstone]

Whats the point?

So I take it you don't like have choices?

Guess you prefer to take what ever Steve decides to graciously put out there and then beg and plead for features that he determined you didn't need.

Careful... Kool-Aid stains are hard to get out.

 

[KnightWRX]

True but this assumes that:

a) An app store is really that important to most people given that MS will ship the 'must have' apps anyway.
b) That they won't integrate it later with an update or the next model.

Look, I'm not being a fanboy since MS have effectively shafted me by not releasing it in the UK which is annoying but this thing looks gorgeous and given I've got a phone loaded with apps anyway it's not an issue for me and probably quite a lot of others.

3rd party developers and open developement models brings variety. Will MS really be able to give you all the fun games that are on the App store ? All the different apps ? I doubt it, this will play agains them, especially if the "chosen 3rd party developers" are the likes of EA.

If they bring it later and do release an open SDK, then maybe they'll be in the game. The fact is, no one buys an iPod Touch or Zune HD to have a PMP. They buy something that does music, video and games. There are other options that are cheaper for just music and video.

And I don't think it's gorgeous. For one, someone still has to explain that damn E in marketplace. The only shots we've seen of the interface show it is an horrid mess. Smallish icons are in, just look at all the devices out there that use that model (Android, Maemo, all cell phones).

The design itself is bland. Not that the iPod Touch or iPhone is any better, but at least they were original when they came out. The design is now 3 years old, time for something new.

 

[BongoBanger]

3And I don't think it's gorgeous. For one, someone still has to explain that damn E in marketplace. The only shots we've seen of the interface show it is an horrid mess. Smallish icons are in, just look at all the devices out there that use that model (Android, Maemo, all cell phones).

We'll have to disagree on the aesthetics which is fine.

Funny thing is I have three friends who have iPod Touches (well two now since one of them got broken) and none of them have actually downloaded any apps. They use it as a PMP and that's it. I realise this is anecdotal but still...

Personally I don't play mobile games and haven't since the glory days of Tetris on my Gameboy so it's not a feature that the lack of bothers me.

 

[surferfromuk]

True but this assumes that:

a) An app store is really that important to most people given that MS will ship the 'must have' apps anyway.
b) That they won't integrate it later with an update or the next model.

Look, I'm not being a fanboy since MS have effectively shafted me by not releasing it in the UK which is annoying but this thing looks gorgeous and given I've got a phone loaded with apps anyway it's not an issue for me and probably quite a lot of others.

The iPod Touch will eat its lunch in terms of sales but that doesn't stop it being utterly beautiful.

In each and everyone of your 1600 posts your down on Apple and high on Microsoft.

Really, tell me honestly, are you paid by Microsoft to be here?.

I genuinely, if I'm truly honest, don't care that your here - indeed I think that your actually a good thing in that it's necessary for Apple and Apple fans to see what they are up against because I believe Microsoft are an incredibly smart and powerful company and not at all as dopey as we Apple fans like to pretend they are, but I really do want to know if your on the payroll or your doing it for kicks.

That's the one thing I can't quite work out.

 

[lex750]

For all those saying that the Zune HD will have an app store. BZZZT. Sorry, try again :

http://www.businessinsider.com/zune-hd-app-store-2009-9

Only Microsoft and Microsoft's chosen 3rd party developers will have access to the Zune Marketplace, there is no SDK and it won't be open to anyone. You can whine about Apple's approval process and call it "control freak" all you want, this is 10x worse.

Now can all the MS fanboys go back to MSrumors to talk about their beloved Zune ? Trolling is really unbecoming.

10x less useless fart apps... i like it already...

 

[rjohnstone]

Nice strawman.



Sure they are. But are they enough to make it a compelling choice over the iPod touch? Nope. Do you think consumers really care about OLED and HD Radio? Really?



Yeah, I'm sure the guy who takes last place in a race feels better about it knowing that he was busy tying his shoe when the starter gun fired.

"Well, yeah, the winner got a head start on me. What can you do."



Oh please. The whole "fart app/flashlight app" chestnut was tired 6 months ago. I have over a hundred apps on my iPhone; one flashlight app, no fart apps. And there are some great apps among them, some free, some cheap, some "expensive" ($10-20). Is there a lot of cruft in the App Store? Of course. But there are a lot of solid offerings as well. And certainly far more than the Zune is going to see within the next year (or probably ever).

The PMP war is over, people. The battlefront has moved to the phone market, and Apple is kicking trash and taking names there too. The Zune HD is a desperate gasp for acknowledgement from Microsoft; a holdover, money-bleeding product to stick on retail shelves (where they will likely gather dust) until they can launch their iPhone knockoff (you know it's coming).

Looks like I struck a nerve.

Apparently you you know what every consumer on this planet wants and needs.
You make declarations about products and expect everyone to treat it as gospel. The war is over folks... all the hardware manufactures and software developers should just quit now. Apple wins!

As for the comment about people not caring about an OLED screen... many may not give a damn about the technology, but they know what looks good to their eyes.

 

[mosx]

Why are people saying the iPod touch is 3 years old when it came out in 2007? It hasn't even been a full 2 years since it was first released. Its barely 2 years and a couple of months since the original iPhone release and not even 3 years since the original announcement.

Anyway, Zune HD wins where the iPod touch fails: media experience. Zune HD has a true 16x9 screen instead of a 1.5:1 screen like the iPod touch. It has a better DAC and so far reviews from audiophiles are saying better audio quality than the post 5.5G iPods.

Games? Any one who buys an iPod touch as a gaming device is going to be extremely disappointed. Extremely. With the exception of a couple of good games, the majority are complete crap or piss poor ports that don't work thanks to the lack of physical controls. Anyone truly interested in gaming is going to go for a PSP or DS, not an iPod or Zune. I'll take Gran Turismo on the PSP over "Real Racing" on the iPod/iPhone any day. Mario Kart on the DS runs circles around the crap that is Cro-Mag Rally. iPhone/iPod games are a joke.

 

[lex750]

Wifi sync. Now's that's beautiful indeed. Microsoft nailed that one way ahead of Apple.


Apple really needs to enable 802.11n and setup an automatic wifi syncing system (why n? because it'll overcome the excuse that wifi syncing would be too slow and it wouldn't slow down the wifi network that it taps into by going b/g compatible). Adding the ability to print through wifi would also be a nice feature both should add.

Wifi sync has not been invented yet till it comes out in the next iPod/iPhone release. I think they might also have a new type of LCD technology coming out too. Redmond warm up those photocopiers!

 

[LagunaSol]

Looks like I struck a nerve.

Yeah, lame strawmen arguments tend to do that.

I say buy what you want and enjoy it. The tone of this thread isn't arguing against choice; it's arguing that the Zune HD is another Me Too product from Microsoft that brings no compelling features to the table.

Sorry you can't seem to recognize the distinction.

Oh, and I wondered how long it would take someone to throw out the "Kool-Aid" weak sauce. Because buying a Microsoft product is so anti-establishment. Yeah. We get it.

Hey, I suppose someone needs to serve the consumers who demand OLED screens and HD Radio, however few they may be. Kudos to Microsoft for being the ones to do it.

 

[clevin]

In each and everyone of your 1600 posts your down on Apple and high on Microsoft.

Really, tell me honestly, are you paid by Microsoft to be here?.

I genuinely, if I'm truly honest, don't care that your here - indeed I think that your actually a good thing in that it's necessary for Apple and Apple fans to see what they are up against because I believe Microsoft are an incredibly smart and powerful company and not at all as dopey as we Apple fans like to pretend they are, but I really do want to know if your on the payroll or your doing it for kicks.

That's the one thing I can't quite work out.

a post, purely about guessing and demeaning another forum member, while has zero relevance to the topic, is trolling.

apple paid you to troll here?

Yeah, lame strawmen arguments tend to do that.

I say buy what you want and enjoy it. The tone of this thread isn't arguing against choice; it's arguing that the Zune HD is another Me Too product from Microsoft that brings no compelling features to the table.

Sorry you can't seem to recognize the distinction.

Oh, and I wondered how long it would take someone to throw out the "Kool-Aid" weak sauce. Because buying a Microsoft product is so anti-establishment. Yeah. We get it.

Hey, I suppose someone needs to serve the consumers who demand OLED screens and HD Radio, however few they may be. Kudos to Microsoft for being the ones to do it.

you can't paint the whole thing so generally, apple owns 70% PMP market, exactly why its not an establishment?

and you are asserting a lot of things when you have absolutely no any experiences with the device, how can that be convincing to anybody?

Nano just added FM radio, something zune has been having for years, me too, me too, copy, copy, that makes no meaningful argument.

 

[BongoBanger]

In each and everyone of your 1600 posts your down on Apple and high on Microsoft.

Really, tell me honestly, are you paid by Microsoft to be here?

Are you paid by Apple?

See I can make utterly ridiculous statements that make me look like a fool too. I'd rather not though.

I genuinely, if I'm truly honest, don't care that your here - indeed I think that your actually a good thing in that it's necessary for Apple and Apple fans to see what they are up against because I believe Microsoft are an incredibly smart and powerful company and not at all as dopey as we Apple fans like to pretend they are, but I really do want to know if your on the payroll or your doing it for kicks.

That's the one thing I can't quite work out.

I'm doing it because I don't believe the hype if you must know and I'm not going to pretend it's all happy la la when it's clearly not.

I'm quite clear on the point - I like a lot of Apple's products - whilst thinking that some are rubbish (the new Shuffle and the Apple TV spring to mind) - but I despise what the company has become, the free ride they get and the endless apologetic nonsense that is spouted by a remarkably sympathetic tech press and those who are just too enamoured or too clueless to step back and question some of the nonsense they're fed.

I don't like the crap spread by mindless fanboys and Apple themselves about other organisations - like MS - who are more than capable of making a complete hash of things themselves (as the hilariously awful launch of Vista and the complete cluelessness of their WinMo strategy (LOL) will tell you) without a bunch of lies or gross exaggerations being pushed out.

And I especially don't like the people who accuse others of being a troll because the opinion being expressed doesn't match their own hideously blinkered point of view.

Apple don't need to do this sort of thing - they're better than that. I wish the same could be said of some of their supporters.

Don't like it? Well there's an ignore button for that sort of thing. You'll never have me intruding into your comfort zone again and you can keep pretending everything's alright and I guess we'll both be happy.

 

[KnightWRX]

Anyway, Zune HD wins where the iPod touch fails: media experience. Zune HD has a true 16x9 screen instead of a 1.5:1 screen like the iPod touch.

And that matters why ? The iPod Touch has better resolution, 480x320. Who cares that the screen is 16:9 when it doesn't give you more width ? (the Zune HD is also 480 pixels wide).

I just don't get this argument. Why settle for less resolution just because it's now 16:9 ? What makes having less height pixels a better experience ?

 

[gnasher729]

don't forget that MS does have far more resources and money than Apple and others do.

Microsoft has been sacking a huge number of employees because they need to save money. Apple hasn't.

Most importantly, any developer writing software for the iPod Touch knows that they have instant access to sell to 50 million device owners, in a store where they have to compete on merit and nothing else. With Microsoft, you know that they will rip you off if they can.

 

[lex750]

And that matters why ? The iPod Touch has better resolution, 480x320. Who cares that the screen is 16:9 when it doesn't give you more width ? (the Zune HD is also 480 pixels wide).

I just don't get this argument. Why settle for less resolution just because it's now 16:9 ? What makes having less height pixels a better experience ?

I guess you have never actually seen the resolution on an OLED screen. Go take a look. You'll be amazed.

 

[surferfromuk]

a post, purely about guessing and demeaning another forum member, while has zero relevance to the topic, is trolling.

apple paid you to troll here?



you can't paint the whole thing so generally, apple owns 70% PMP market, exactly why its not an establishment?

and you are asserting a lot of things when you have absolutely no any experiences with the device, how can that be convincing to anybody?

Nano just added FM radio, something zune has been having for years, me too, me too, copy, copy, that makes no meaningful argument.

Can an Apple fan troll in an Apple forum? - I'm not sure...but yes it is rather pathetic of me I suppose, but I simply had an honest question. I guess I should have pm'd him.

and No, Apple don't pay me - in fact I give them money.

 

[surferfromuk]

Are you paid by Apple?

See I can make utterly ridiculous statements that make me look like a fool too. I'd rather not though.



I'm doing it because I don't believe the hype if you must know and I'm not going to pretend it's all happy la la when it's clearly not.

I'm quite clear on the point - I like a lot of Apple's products - whilst thinking that some are rubbish (the new Shuffle and the Apple TV spring to mind) - but I despise what the company has become, the free ride they get and the endless apologetic nonsense that is spouted by a remarkably sympathetic tech press and those who are just too enamoured or too clueless to step back and question some of the nonsense they're fed.

I don't like the crap spread by mindless fanboys and Apple themselves about other organisations - like MS - who are more than capable of making a complete hash of things themselves (as the hilariously awful launch of Vista and the complete cluelessness of their WinMo strategy (LOL) will tell you) without a bunch of lies or gross exaggerations being pushed out.

And I especially don't like the people who accuse others of being a troll because the opinion being expressed doesn't match their own hideously blinkered point of view.

Apple don't need to do this sort of thing - they're better than that. I wish the same could be said of some of their supporters.

Don't like it? Well there's an ignore button for that sort of thing. You'll never have me intruding into your comfort zone again and you can keep pretending everything's alright and I guess we'll both be happy.

Well then that's cool and I'm just really happy to find out that your a genuine guy and that the things you say you really truly believe. I respect you for that and really I'll lay off your case from now on.

You may be surprised to hear it but I essentially agree with mostly everything you said.

 

[LagunaSol]

and you are asserting a lot of things when you have absolutely no any experiences with the device, how can that be convincing to anybody?

And why, exactly, do I need actual experience with the device to assess that what it adds (OLED, HD Radio, subscription music) does not equal or surpass what it lacks (primarily the software ecosystem) and thus does not make a compelling sales pitch to most consumers?

As for surferfromuk's question about the chronic Apple haters that infest these forums, it's a legitimate one that no one cares to answer. Me, I just add these folks (BongoBanger, mosx, etc.) to my ignore list. Their motivation for making Apple bashing a full time job will remain a mystery to me and everyone else.

All I can say is this: astroturfing is not an urban legend.

 

[bobertoq]

Lets see it in daylight, outside use.

Exactly! Because a glass screen works so much better in direct sunlight!

 

[KnightWRX]

I guess you have never actually seen the resolution on an OLED screen. Go take a look. You'll be amazed.

What the hell are you talking about ? The Zune HD has a 480x272 resolution. That is lower than the iPods 480x320. The screen is about the same size too, so the ppi is pretty similar.

Again, why is having 480x272 a better experience than 480x320 ? OLED vs LCD has nothing to do with this btw, mosx was talking about pixel resolution and the fact that the Zune HD has a 16:9 screen.

 

[BongoBanger]

Well then that's cool and I'm just really happy to find out that your a genuine guy and that the things you say you really truly believe. I respect you for that and really I'll lay off your case from now on.

You may be surprised to hear it but I essentially agree with mostly everything you said.

Fair enough. I realise I can come across as overly negative so I can see where you're coming from.

 

[rjohnstone]

Exactly! Because a glass screen works so much better in direct sunlight!

I actually tilted my head when I read this.

I'm not sure if you're bashing the use of a glass screen or not.
If you are, then I guess you don't like the iPhone or Touch screen either.
They're glass too.


I too would like to see a daylight shot of the Zune HD's screen to see how well it performs outside.
I know my iPhone's screen is practically unreadable in the middle of the day outside. I have to shade it to see who is calling.
But that's to be expected.

 

[clevin]

And why, exactly, do I need actual experience with the device to assess that what it adds (OLED, HD Radio, subscription music) does not equal or surpass what it lacks (primarily the software ecosystem) and thus does not make a compelling sales pitch to most consumers
All I can say is this: astroturfing is not an urban legend.

of course you need experiences.

how does it UI feel?
how does interaction of different functions feels like?
are there any subtle, but nice functions that people would find very convenient?

you can only list HD radio, OLED, subscription music, is that all you know about Zune HD? did you see that pin, history, zune to xbox, etc? that guy at engadget, gizmodo, bgr, usatoday, etc, needs several days to put out a review, and you are making a judgment in seconds?

ecosystem is important, but how much? Microsoft windows ecosystem (softwares, games, hardwares, peripherals) is much better than apple mac, whats your choice?

Its not like somebody asking people here to absolutely praise Zune HD, how about just stopping making up stuff from air for a while?