Microsoft Lays Out Plans for Windows on ARM Processors

[Eidorian]

I think the next 3 years are probably the most important in Microsoft's history.

If they do them right they'll stay powerful for the next 50 years. If not they'll find themselves just making Word and X-Boxes.

All signs point to the fact that they finally 'get it' have a good plan. But we'll just have to wait and see. I hope they pull it off. The biggest problem with Microsoft in the past was their extreme market share in their various markets. Since near-total monopolies don't seem likely for anyone in tech in the future, I don't think that's a problem any more. Take that away from them and Microsoft becomes a company I root for once again.

This is why Windows 8 for ARM will never work: x86 Apps.

Microsoft has done this time and again:

1. Windows NT (great OS BTW) was ported to a number of different CPUs. The big hope was that you would have all these great CPU platforms running Windows NT in a big happy world. Well, 3rd party folks wrote utilities for one CPU platform: x86. Sure, I could run Windows NT on MIPS but if I needed a disk defragmenter or spiffy backup utility well I better be running X86 since that is where the apps were.

2. How about Windows CE or Pocket PC? How many CPUs did that run on? How did that turn out?

The rest of us that do not own a tablet are not looking so much for better features but the ability to run many x86 apps. With Windows 8 and a CPU that is X86 compatible you gain a plethora of software and tools that can't be beat.

iOS and Android tablets all share the same problem for CIOs in that you have to buy software for different platforms.

If I can buy a Windows 8 Table that runs x86 software I can access a wealth of software that is available. For CIOs who are worried about budgets and projects, this is a fantastic solution.

If none of that seems logical how about this? I am a CIO that is not going iOS or Android but I am strongly looking at Windows 8. I can buy a Windows 8 Tablet that I can choose an x86 or an ARM. Both are very similar and maybe even the ARM gives me some extra battery life. However, the x86 can run a plethora of software now or I can HOPE that many tools I use on my desktop will get ported to ARM. There is just no comparison in that situation. It will be x86.

-P

Everyone has to start somewhere. BUILD was getting the tools to the developers and the goal is to build for Metro, build for ALL.

I wonder what statistics Microsoft will have to publish for the milestones when the next preview is out later this month. (e.g. OS image downloads, Microsoft store accounts/downloads.)

The public preview is a good litmus test for numbers and what will work and not.

 

[bit density]

This is why Windows 8 for ARM will never work: x86 Apps.

The big difference this time is app distribution.

It is very difficult to have a long tail in the world of physical products. They were difficult to manufacture, test, store and distribute to the end customer. For very little return.

But with the app store and central distribution, the only real additional cost will be build and incremental testing, between two flavors. This is not as big a deal as NT was. Or even CE.

And it will make a big difference.

Legacy X86 apps are more problematic. The big problem with the older apps and the older operating system, was not if they ran, but that they weren't tablet savvy. The advantage this time around, is that the UI and the whole system will be designed around how people will use these, as opposed to putting an upper right corner centric WIMP that is totally inappropriate for a tablet, where the main part of the system will be the bottom of the screen and a non menu oriented interface. Those old apps will need to be refurbished for the new system. Or run from a laptop where the wimp is appropriate.

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While Microsoft still has to build an ecosystem from the ground up, others are already firmly in place.

No. You're missing the Microsoft advantage. This will be the link between, desktop and tv. Tablet and phone will be there in the middle. The existing ecosystem is huge and this will simply tie into it. Your stuff from the desktop, and your stuff from the living room, will be tied together with your phone and your tablet when you aren't there. There is a huge pent up demand for this, as proven by the iPhone, which was sold to everyone that I know as being an internet device that just worked with their email and was a no-compromise browser.

I can tell you this is true, because this is PRECISELY what I want from the next level, and what it looks like is being provided.

I love my mac. But I will be ok with it to, if it boots windows. Still the best hardware, and I can be won over by a better software solution.

If you do that on a windows phone, AND hook into my desktop and my tv (xbox), I am not tied to apple. I will be able to get almost all the same applications on my iPhone, except my phone will be sleeker, newer, and better meet my needs. And my MP3 collection is becoming less important because Pandora is good enough most of the time on my phone, and it will be cheaper.

Microsoft can totally come back in this space, and apple's advantages are fleeting. And their biggest advantage doesn't work there anymore.

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Windows is windows no matter what version. In that world you have to buy all kinds of extras especially virus protectors and worry a lot about maintaining windows OS situations.

I am a computer professional. I was everyones goto guy for help and assistance. And it was the profound need to be a security expert that made me switch to OSX. The need for expertise is MUCH lower today that it was when I left, and still appears to be mostly true if you are on the newest system.

So I agree that security is a reason, I don't think it is as big as one as it used to be, and I am looking forward to the day where I can let go of OSX and boot to windows on my MacBook Air and be happy about it.

 

[AidenShaw]

[Win8] Free for all at the end of this month. I will probably stick to a virtual machine this time instead of a direct installation.

I'm going the opposite route - I have the dev preview in a VM, but my 12" Dell multi-touch tablet is waiting for a native installtion for this round.

If I can buy a Windows 8 Table that runs x86 software I can access a wealth of software that is available. For CIOs who are worried about budgets and projects, this is a fantastic solution.

My Dell is dual-core x64 with 5 GiB of RAM.

WAHOO!

 

[Eidorian]

I'm going the opposite route - I have the dev preview in a VM, but my 12" Dell multi-touch tablet is waiting for a native installtion for this round.

No tablets around here unless I requisition ones that we do not have from work.

 

[ppc_michael]

I was hoping Windows on ARM would be an exact replica of Windows 8 x86/x64. It looks like it's 90% there feature-wise, but different on the development end? Anyway I suppose ARM just isn't there yet.

Still, this looks like a great leap in mobile functionality, especially compared to iOS. I'm really excited to see where this is going.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

This is why Windows 8 for ARM will never work: x86 Apps.

The big thing that you're missing is that C# and HTML technologies are compiled using a JIT compiler, so they're platform agnostic. You can code them for 1 platform, and they'll work on the other. This is very different from how it worked on NT back in the day, and it'll help support the ARM ecosystem for "real" apps, and the x86 ecosystem for touchscreen apps.

 

[quickmac]

The interface looks nice and simple, just that the man in the video not only sounds bored out of his mind but also robotic. I mean lets get some personality in there! Everything that Apple releases an informative video for is enthusiastic and passionate, you feel the creators pride in products.

Lastly maybe they should have given him a script with a little less "Windows on ARM" lines...

I thought the same thing! Besides the cheesy tile layout interface, this has some potential. But you got a robot speaking technical terms and lingo. There's no excitement, no showing what it can do for "real" people, and likely will leave most viewers thinking "hmm I need to go buy an iPad3 when it comes out."

Apple innovates not only on products but on marketing. Steve Jobs (RIP) could have sold a brick with the Apple logo on it at his presentations.

 

[DanteMann]

Apple innovates not only on products but on marketing. Steve Jobs (RIP) could have sold a brick with the Apple logo on it at his presentations.

I think someone that would buy any piece of garbage because of the Apple brand name/logo on it says a lot more about Apple customers than it does about Steve's marketing skills. Truly sad.

 

[faroZ06]

Windows on a mobile device? Who does that?

 

[theBB]

iOS and Android tablets all share the same problem for CIOs in that you have to buy software for different platforms.

If I can buy a Windows 8 Table that runs x86 software I can access a wealth of software that is available. For CIOs who are worried about budgets and projects, this is a fantastic solution.

When developers adapt their apps for a touch screen OS, they will not give it away, so CIOs will still have to worry about budgets. If they are in house apps, same problem, he will need to put aside a budget for this move. I expect most of the "just recompiled for ARM" version of the apps to be available only after a paid upgrade. Reworked interface versions will cost even more.

If CIO's plan is to keep using the same legacy apps as is, it is going to be awful to use most of them through the touch interface, as they are designed for a keyboard and mouse. Either the CIO is going to ask the employees to struggle through this type of mess or he is going to be asking them to carry around a mouse and a keyboard. If those apps are not all that important or they are used infrequently, then leave some old laptops around. If they are important and used frequently, stick with laptops. Nobody is holding a gun to a CIO's head to switch to tablets.

I don't think Windows desktop on tablets are going to be a big selling point. Tablets running regular Windows were on the market for a decade. The main selling point of a tablet is well designed touch based OS. Win8 tablets will be successful if Metro by itself is good enough. Everything else is just fluff...

 

[faroZ06]

I think someone that would buy any piece of garbage because of the Apple brand name/logo on it says a lot more about Apple customers than it does about Steve's marketing skills. Truly sad.

Gross generalization, truly sad. I think the only "garbage" Apple has made in the past 7 years has been the iPod Shuffle w/o buttons, the Apple Remote that you have to buy for your PC if you want it, and the original Final Cut X. In fact, I doubt your rule applies to the vast majority of people anyway.

More accurate is: "Many Apple customers buy Apple stuff despite not being able to really afford it because it looks cool and is hip, so it makes them look cooler (not because it's made by Apple but because it's so sleek)." That would be the people at my school who have bought every iPhone on release date. Upgrading from 4 to 4s is just dumb.

And you'd think more people would use iChat if they followed your rule. They go for Skype, which I find horribly spammy and a waste of computer resources. Plus, they advertised by loading my new Cruzer flash drive with ads for @#$%...

 

[DanteMann]

More accurate is: "Many Apple customers buy Apple stuff despite not being able to really afford it because it looks cool and is hip, so it makes them look cooler (not because it's made by Apple but because it's so sleek)." That would be the people at my school who have bought every iPhone on release date. Upgrading from 4 to 4s is just dumb.

Ummm....Apple products are no more expensive than their competitors. Seriously, elementary kids have Galaxy S2s and iPhones. Everything is subsidized. I honestly don't know anyone who gets an iPhone because it makes them look cool/hip/important/well off. As far as looking sleek, I also don't know anyone that thinks a brick looks sleek. A brick, seriously now.

 

[Balaamsdonkey]

I'm actually quite looking forward to seeing Windows 8 equipped tablets. After seeing that they are abandoning what would have made a Windows tablet fail (mainly legacy apps and interfaces designed for desktops), I think they have a chance of getting this right! Being it's Microsoft, we'll probably have to wait for Windows 9 for it to be good, but there's reason to be hopeful. I prefer Microsoft as a rival to Apple over Google since Google has gotten to where it has by copying much of iOS and giving it away for free more or less, whereas Microsoft is actually innovating (finally). And modern Microsoft seems to understand the importance of the hardware and software being developed together (as demonstrated by the very specific hardware requirements for Windows Mobile 7). Against Microsoft is Windows Mobile 7 is actually a decent product, but it's seeing very little adoption due to how late it arrived on the market, and Windows 8 tablets may have the same problem. Time will tell, but I hope they do well in order to give Apple some competition.

Perhaps we will see a situation similar to what Microsoft did with the X-Box. The first was late to market and then the second will come out a bit more polished, and gain more appeal. It's a good thing for Microsoft they don't make their own computers, otherwise they would all over heat.

Who thinks Windows 8 will be actually 8.0 or perhaps it will be labeled 6.2 like Windows 7 is 6.1.x?

 

[Steve121178]

Windows 8 has the potential to be massive

It will be massive. It will be pre-installed on new PC's by default. So it's going to be on 100's of millions of PC's over the next few years. Then add how many copies/licenses they sell to users wanting to update existing hardware...

 

[Renzatic]

Who thinks Windows 8 will be actually 8.0 or perhaps it will be labeled 6.2 like Windows 7 is 6.1.x?

It'll be 6.2, as it's built upon the Vista code base.

 

[badsandwich]

Are they mad?
This is a company whose user-base clings to old hardware. How many systems out there are still Windows XP?
And they think the best approach is to assume everyone will suddenly buy touch-screen enabled hardware?
Seriously?

 

[Steve121178]

Are they mad?
This is a company whose user-base clings to old hardware. How many systems out there are still Windows XP?
And they think the best approach is to assume everyone will suddenly buy touch-screen enabled hardware?
Seriously?

They are giving people the option to use touch screen devices. Huge difference.

 

[badsandwich]

They are giving people the option to use touch screen devices. Huge difference.

Have you tried the beta?

 

[Steve121178]

Have you tried the beta?

I've used various developer builds.

 

[badsandwich]

I've used various developer builds.

And do they seem like it's oriented towards touchscreens or traditional desktops?

 

[katewes]

Agreed. I feel the same.

Me too. And I've been using Macs for decades - and generally been anti-Microsoft most of that time ever since OSX came out. But somehow Windows 8 has gotten me excited about Microsoft in a way I've never felt since Windows 95.

I'm most excited about Windows 8 tablets. Apple purposely designed the iPad to be just for content consumption, not creation. Whereas I sense Microsoft sees their pads as a portable solution for working on desktop stuff on the go. That has not been Apple's paradigm.

The iPad's synching of files between iPad and desktop/notebook is really clunky (and, if not for Dropbox for iPad, it'd be hopeless). But that's Apple's paradigm for the iPad.

Now that Steve Jobs has gone, I'm encouraged to hear Tim Cook making the right noises of changing the iPad into something that can be used by people that need to get work done.

I seriously hope Microsoft can get to the point of making Apple sweat. Apple has shown that it has the makings of becoming a tyrant if left without competition (as Microsoft was for so long).

I also think the design of Windows 8 is rather attractive.

I don't think I'll move away from OSX any time soon. (The designs of notebooks and hardware by PC manufacturers is totally lame: it's like there's no one with any sense of taste in their design departments). But I'm willing to try a Windows 8 tablet.

 

[314631]

Are they mad?
This is a company whose user-base clings to old hardware. How many systems out there are still Windows XP?
And they think the best approach is to assume everyone will suddenly buy touch-screen enabled hardware?
Seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Windows 8 will present a lot tougher competition for Apple and the iPad than Android currently does. I'm convinced of that. There was a recent survey that said almost 50% of businesses were waiting for a compelling Microsoft solution rather than buying either iPad or an Android tablet. So the market is there waiting for them.

Microsoft thinks the best approach is giving people the option of a great touch experience if they want it. If a user prefers to to use a keyboard and mouse they can still use those input devices. And hardware hoarders will continue to be able to buy a new Windows license and run the software on their existing hardware. Choice: a dirty word in Cupertino but many customers appreciate it.

I like what I have seen so far from Windows 8. I can't wait to test the consumer preview later this month. I really think Microsoft is going to hit it out of the park with this one.

 

[Steve121178]

And do they seem like it's oriented towards touchscreens or traditional desktops?

Both.

 

[badsandwich]

Yes. Seriously. Windows 8 will present a lot tougher competition for Apple and the iPad than Android currently does. I'm convinced of that. There was a recent survey that said almost 50% of businesses were waiting for a compelling Microsoft solution rather than buying either iPad or an Android tablet. So the market is there waiting for them.

Microsoft thinks the best approach is giving people the option of a great touch experience if they want it. If a user prefers to to use a keyboard and mouse they can still use those input devices. And hardware hoarders will continue to be able to buy a new Windows license and run the software on their existing hardware. Choice: a dirty word in Cupertino but many customers appreciate it.

I like what I have seen so far from Windows 8. I can't wait to test the consumer preview later this month. I really think Microsoft is going to hit it out of the park with this one.

Wow, I'm sold!

 

[314631]

Wow, I'm sold!

Let's be honest. You'd only be sold on it if Apple slapped its logo on it and pronounced Windows 8 the most revolutionary software ever created. And that they would be shipping it in all their products moving forward. At that precise moment, Windows 8 would suddenly become exciting and very appealing to you and a lot of other people on here.

I love Apple products, but I'm happy I haven't been brainwashed into believing anything different made by another company is always bad until the moment Apple does something similar.