Microsoft Pits Surface Pro 7 Against iPad Pro, Says Surface is 'Still the Better Choice'

[Ubuntu]

What the heck is a computer even? Seems people just like to keep moving the goalposts to define a computer as something an iPad can't do. For whatever little good it does them.

It does so much good. Criticism is useful. The hardware of the iPad is great but the software is lacking considerably. Until they fix that it’s just not comparable to a PC or a Mac. That’s not to say you can’t do real work with it... because it’s my number one device for doing my company invoices tbh (easier to highlight transactions etc) but i still find the OS so limited and unintuitive.

Its a weird device. It does some things really well but still find some of the core functions to be terrible (hey multitasking!).

 

[Ubuntu]

Let’s take a look at Wikipedia then to start:
“
A computer is a machine that can be programmed to carry out sequences of arithmetic or logical operations automatically.”

Common sense has spoken. Case closed.

Hilarious. And when you look a iPadOS, which one does it resemble more... macOS, or iOS? You’re missing the point I’m trying to make here, I’m not saying the iPad isn’t a computer, it’s just not comparable to a conventional computer. If someone asks me “hey, I’m looking to buy a computer, can you help?” I can only ever recommend the iPad if the simplicity is the feature they need. If they want to use it for work etc then unless they fit specific use cases I always have to recommend something else.

 

[Abazigal]

It does so much good. Criticism is useful. The hardware of the iPad is great but the software is lacking considerably. Until they fix that it’s just not comparable to a PC or a Mac. That’s not to say you can’t do real work with it... because it’s my number one device for doing my company invoices tbh (easier to highlight transactions etc) but i still find the OS so limited and unintuitive.

Its a weird device. It does some things really well but still find some of the core functions to be terrible (hey multitasking!).

Maybe the whole point is that an iPad is supposed to be an alternative, rather than a replacement, for a PC?

To use an analogy, there were these people using screwdrivers to drive in nails into wooden planks because the hammer hadn't been invented yet. The iPad is that hammer. That a hammer cannot be used to screw in nails doesn't mean it sucks. It just means that this was never its intended purpose to begin with.

I use my iPad as a complement to my iMac and my MBA. Each excels in specific tasks, and that to me is the whole allure of the Apple ecosystem. That there is a right tool for the job when it's time to get it done. When I want to record a screencast for a lesson, I launch notability on my iPad, turn on screen recording, and talk into my iPad while writing with the Apple Pencil. Once that is done, import the video file into Lumafusion, make some quick edits, then upload directly to YouTube and post the link in google classroom.

Or when I am done taking minutes on word in my iPad, simply email it to my head directly during the share-sheet extension.

That the iPad doesn't try too hard to replicate a laptop is, to me, its biggest allure. I am not saying that the iPad doesn't need to improve, but that maybe it shouldn't try to become a carbon copy of the Mac. For example, I don't think Final Cut Pro or Xcode needs to exist for the iPad. Let the Mac continue to shoulder this burden, leaving the iPad free to be as light as it can be.

 

[chucker23n1]

Maybe the whole point is that an iPad is supposed to be an alternative, rather than a replacement, for a PC?

To use an analogy, there were these people using screwdrivers to drive in nails into wooden planks because the hammer hadn't been invented yet. The iPad is that hammer. That a hammer cannot be used to screw in nails doesn't mean it sucks. It just means that this was never its intended purpose to begin with.

I use my iPad as a complement to my iMac and my MBA. Each excels in specific tasks, and that to me is the whole allure of the Apple ecosystem. That there is a right tool for the job when it's time to get it done. When I want to record a screencast for a lesson, I launch notability on my iPad, turn on screen recording, and talk into my iPad while writing with the Apple Pencil. Once that is done, import the video file into Lumafusion, make some quick edits, then upload directly to YouTube and post the link in google classroom.

Or when I am done taking minutes on word in my iPad, simply email it to my head directly during the share-sheet extension.

That the iPad doesn't try too hard to replicate a laptop is, to me, its biggest allure. I am not saying that the iPad doesn't need to improve, but that maybe it shouldn't try to become a carbon copy of the Mac. For example, I don't think Final Cut Pro or Xcode needs to exist for the iPad. Let the Mac continue to shoulder this burden, leaving the iPad free to be as light as it can be.

But iPadOS’s multitasking UI strangeness isn’t because it’s a different tool, but because of excessive minimalism. If they had a few more visual affordances, it’d be great at that.

 

[Ubuntu]

Maybe the whole point is that an iPad is supposed to be an alternative, rather than a replacement, for a PC?

To use an analogy, there were these people using screwdrivers to drive in nails into wooden planks because the hammer hadn't been invented yet. The iPad is that hammer. That a hammer cannot be used to screw in nails doesn't mean it sucks. It just means that this was never its intended purpose to begin with.

I use my iPad as a complement to my iMac and my MBA. Each excels in specific tasks, and that to me is the whole allure of the Apple ecosystem. That there is a right tool for the job when it's time to get it done. When I want to record a screencast for a lesson, I launch notability on my iPad, turn on screen recording, and talk into my iPad while writing with the Apple Pencil. Once that is done, import the video file into Lumafusion, make some quick edits, then upload directly to YouTube and post the link in google classroom.

Or when I am done taking minutes on word in my iPad, simply email it to my head directly during the share-sheet extension.

That the iPad doesn't try too hard to replicate a laptop is, to me, its biggest allure. I am not saying that the iPad doesn't need to improve, but that maybe it shouldn't try to become a carbon copy of the Mac. For example, I don't think Final Cut Pro or Xcode needs to exist for the iPad. Let the Mac continue to shoulder this burden, leaving the iPad free to be as light as it can be.

I agree that the iPad shouldn’t try to be a copy of the Mac but my criticism isn’t just in the light of comparing the iPad to a Mac or PC - the software situation is just poor as it is.

I could buy the "it's an alternative" argument if it wasn't for the fact that Apple itself tried to add conventional computer features like:
- multitasking, where they tried to bring the multi window paradigm to a phone OS and failed IMO. Every time I try to use the current implementation I find it unintuitive and just a pain, really. I'm not saying they should bring in the window management from macOS & Windows but what they currently have is just poor.
- files access, which came about as a later addition after much criticism and I don't think it was well thought out because the focus is still on the "There's an app for that" way of thinking, rather than "I have a project across several apps" approach.

They did add great features like the Apple Pencil and the recent cursor support but overall I feel it's a bit rudderless in direction - their decisions often feel reactive rather than proactive (Although I'm happy to see this has changed a bit with the cursor feature). As you said, it can be seen as an alternative but they seem to keep pushing it as a laptop replacement and it does some features really well (including the use cases you mentioned) but just doesn't nail the basics.

 

[Abazigal]

I agree that the iPad shouldn’t try to be a copy of the Mac but my criticism isn’t just in the light of comparing the iPad to a Mac or PC - the software situation is just poor as it is.

I could buy the "it's an alternative" argument if it wasn't for the fact that Apple itself tried to add conventional computer features like:
- multitasking, where they tried to bring the multi window paradigm to a phone OS and failed IMO. Every time I try to use the current implementation I find it unintuitive and just a pain, really. I'm not saying they should bring in the window management from macOS & Windows but what they currently have is just poor.
- files access, which came about as a later addition after much criticism and I don't think it was well thought out because the focus is still on the "There's an app for that" way of thinking, rather than "I have a project across several apps" approach.

They did add great features like the Apple Pencil and the recent cursor support but overall I feel it's a bit rudderless in direction - their decisions often feel reactive rather than proactive (Although I'm happy to see this has changed a bit with the cursor feature). As you said, it can be seen as an alternative but they seem to keep pushing it as a laptop replacement and it does some features really well (including the use cases you mentioned) but just doesn't nail the basics.

I agree that multitasking is just weird. It’s great when used in tandem with the Smart Keyboard (where you just search for an app via spotlight and drag it into split screen mode from there), but it’s a pain when you want to do so with an app that isn’t located in the dock.

I don’t know how it can be fixed though.

I don’t use the cursor. Files is interesting. I have come to work with its idiosyncrasies, and basically see it as more of a way of managing all my different cloud storage services in one place, rather than an actual file manager app.

Seems a lot of this comes down to Apple having a very atypical take on normal everyday features. Whether it’s a sign of them missing the boat, or us just not getting it....¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ericwn]

Hilarious. And when you look a iPadOS, which one does it resemble more... macOS, or iOS? You’re missing the point I’m trying to make here, I’m not saying the iPad isn’t a computer, it’s just not comparable to a conventional computer.

Ah, why then not say so from the beginning?
Different computers serve different purposes.

 

[Calle68]

The comparison between a tablet and a full computer is just a matter of apps, more than hardware. On one thing MS is right: the price. 399€ (474 US$) for a keyboard, well, is simply offensive. Let's wait for the updated iPad: we are still looking at a 2015-2018 device.

 

[Ubuntu]

I agree that multitasking is just weird. It’s great when used in tandem with the Smart Keyboard (where you just search for an app via spotlight and drag it into split screen mode from there), but it’s a pain when you want to do so with an app that isn’t located in the dock.

I don’t know how it can be fixed though.

I don’t use the cursor. Files is interesting. I have come to work with its idiosyncrasies, and basically see it as more of a way of managing all my different cloud storage services in one place, rather than an actual file manager app.

Seems a lot of this comes down to Apple having a very atypical take on normal everyday features. Whether it’s a sign of them missing the boat, or us just not getting it....¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, it’s an interesting dilemma for them to resolve. That said, glad you’re able to make good use of your iPad.

 

[Ubuntu]

Ah, why then not say so from the beginning?
Different computers serve different purposes.

I didn’t think people would go for the dictionary argument, as that wasn’t the topic here (as far as I could see).

 

[Abazigal]

Yeah, it’s an interesting dilemma for them to resolve. That said, glad you’re able to make good use of your iPad.

Being using my iPad in the classroom since 2012, and so have had many years to make it work.

It's weird in a way. Because I had to make the iPad work in a time when iOS was still in its infancy, this meant finding workarounds to issues like no file manager (which I "solved" by storing my files in dropbox and sync'ing them via the documents app). So the current files app doesn't really disturb me because I haven't really adapted my workflow to really make use of it enough to be irritated by its supposed limitations.

 

[polaris20]

Let’s take a look at Wikipedia then to start:
“
A computer is a machine that can be programmed to carry out sequences of arithmetic or logical operations automatically.”

Common sense has spoken. Case closed.

People saying They’re not computers, and then coming up with arbitrary definitions of what a computer is are just pissy with Apple for whatever reason. Whatever floats their boat, but it’s kind of a waste of time to spend on an Apple-related forum then. Happens all the time though.

 

[quarkysg]

It would seem to me that folks hoping to have better multi-tasking for iPadOS is because of the iPad's ability to be instant/always on, all day battery life and it's portability. I think tho. that the technology enabling a tablet form factor to functions like a full multi-tasking computer, while still exhibiting the qualities provided by the iPad as stated earlier, is still some years away.

The M1 Macs are probably the start of showing this capability, but still probably not there yet as well, as when the M1 MBA/MBP when pushed to it's limits will get shorter battery life. Doing this to the iPad will also cut it's battery life short even more if full multi-tasking is designed for iPadOS.

 

[billk711]

Are your feelings hurt? Your way to emotionally invested in a company that wants your money. Nothing else. Lol

LOL u need help, do u understand the main idea of a business is to make as much money as possible. Maybe get a job? That would help you understand how a business works

 

[sparksd]

Try split screening two Chrome windows on a Surface and watch it struggle. What a joke.

Huh? I just did that with 4 Chrome windows along while also running Outlook and Adobe Lightroom at the same time without a problem (Surface Pro 7, 16GB i7). I love my iPP 12 but my SP7 doesn't struggle at all and if I were forced to keep just one, it would be the SP7.

 

[VermontsFinest]

Huh? I just did that with 4 Chrome windows along while also running Outlook and Adobe Lightroom at the same time without a problem (Surface Pro 7, 16GB i7). I love my iPP 12 but my SP7 doesn't struggle at all and if I were forced to keep just one, it would be the SP7.

Lucky duck. Runs buggy as hell for me, super choppy transition animations. It basically sits in my desk at this point, thing feels super junky.

 

[sparksd]

Lucky duck. Runs buggy as hell for me, super choppy transition animations. It basically sits in my desk at this point, thing feels super junky.

That sucks. Mine replaced a Dell XPS-13 and it blows it out of the water. Great performance as noted and 500Mbps Internet on it. I use it most of the time at home with a 4K 60Hz monitor and two 4TB HDDs connected via a USB-C hub (not the overpriced Dock). Best device I've ever owned.

 

[VermontsFinest]

That sucks. Mine replaced a Dell XPS-13 and it blows it out of the water. Great performance as noted and 500Mbps Internet on it. I use it most of the time at home with a 4K 60Hz monitor and two 4TB HDDs connected via a USB-C hub (not the overpriced Dock). Best device I've ever owned.

Sounds like you got very lucky! In my class of 120 students, it is disliked strongly by nearly everyone. Runs like a potato. My M1 Macbook Air blows it out of the water in every way.

 

[sparksd]

Sounds like you got very lucky! In my class of 120 students, it is disliked strongly by nearly everyone. Runs like a potato. My M1 Macbook Air blows it out of the water in every way.

It runs great. I've had it running with 4 Chrome window, Outlook, Adobe Lightroom processing very large RAW images, and Photoshop simultaneously.

 

[mi7chy]

Sounds like you got very lucky! In my class of 120 students, it is disliked strongly by nearly everyone. Runs like a potato. My M1 Macbook Air blows it out of the water in every way.

My MBA M1 16GB/256GB is a buggy POS. I'd be happy if I can trade it for a Surface Pro 7+.

 

[sparksd]

My MBA M1 16GB/256GB is a buggy POS. I'd be happy if I can trade it for a Surface Pro 7+.

I went for the Surface Pro 7 - 16GB/256GB/i7. Was able to get it for $330 off ($1160) at Amazon.

 

[VermontsFinest]

My MBA M1 16GB/256GB is a buggy POS. I'd be happy if I can trade it for a Surface Pro 7+.

I went for the Surface Pro 7 - 16GB/256GB/i7. Was able to get it for $330 off ($1160) at Amazon.

Yikes... wishing you both the best of luck!

 

[sparksd]

Yikes... wishing you both the best of luck!

Not sure what I need the luck for as all has been quite well but thanks.

 

[CheesegraterMac]

?

I still remember the single bin where i dumped my surface in, Bad investment.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I still remember the single bin where i dumped my surface in, Bad investment.

+10!!!

I was at Columbus Circle, and Microstuff had a popup kiosk to 'introduce people to the Surface'.

I asked the droid why the keyboard and mouse weren't included. 'Well, you don't need them to use the Sirface' he chirped. So, if I was using Off ice ont he surface, I wouldn't need those? 'Well, for more intensive 'business functions', the keyboard and mouse would be beneficial' he confidently stated. So, how much of daily 'normal office use' would someone find the keyboard, and mouse 'beneficial'? 'Well, that would depend on the usage of the Surface. For 'normal office use', the keyboard and mouse would be a useful accessory' he nervously said as a small group of gawkers started gathering around us. So, hmm, can you show me how a 'normal business' user would not end up needing the keyboard, and definitely a mouse? 'Well, obviously it would depend on what they were trying to do. There are tasks where the keyboard and mouse are not needed.' he tried to convey a high degree of confidence, and failed.

So, it continued until the droid's 'spotter' came over and said that there were other people that needed his 'help'.

As I was walking away, someone said, under their breath so the droid didn't hear, 'I thought he was going to either cry, or just quit. You had him on the ropes.' and walked away chuckling...

I remember a Microsoft Reseller Event, where they drug out a Surface and tried to get the people in attendance to sell them. Yeah, I was kind, that audience was brutal...

But it has gotten better, I hear...

Oh, the first droid offered the Surface of that day a 'valid alternative to the iPad'. Some laughed outright and walked away. Ouch... (I have to say I did feel a little guilty. Sorry NYC droid, if you are here. I was just seeing how well trained you were. The Surface does have some things over the iPad, honest)