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Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website
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Like the iPhone .. if you have a Mac you dont go back ..... and I really dont think a 'different acting' mouse is gonna buck the trend !
ummm...I've dumped my iPhone, I'm now using a DroidX and loving it. Furthermore, I'm using my Macbook less and less, and doubt I'll spend money to buy another Mac laptop again - there just isn't a tangible benefit to the higher cost in my experience anymore.
So your argument that you 'don't go back' in my case ( and I know others doing the same, both with the phone, and Mac hardware ) is demonstrably untrue. I do like my iPad, but could very easily dump it if comparable hardware on android platform shows up.
And it really is catastrophically hypocritical of the Mac fan base to be complaining and bitching about these advert. How short their memory is. What microsoft is writing is not even half as bad as the half-truths and lies that Apple told for years in their ' I'm a Mac ' adverts. It seems Apple fans like to deal it out but can't stomach getting it back.
I'm 20 years old and I fixed a lot of Windows stuff, built my own PC, had to deal and google lots of weird problems. I used to play games, but I just lost the appetite. I love using iTunes, it's so much more organized than this complicated folder/file/dragging stuff. For my University studies I will get a mac, just because I want less hassle, I'll have less time to maintain my PC and I'm not a gamer, anyway.
I'm not sure if Windows 7 changed all this, but so far Windows never really gave me this "flawless" experience I have on my iPhone 3G.
I'm not sure if Windows 7 changed all this, but so far Windows never really gave me this "flawless" experience I have on my iPhone 3G.
This whole debate is stupid on many levels.
First - MS is basically claiming that their "computers" (i.e. PC) are more functional than Mac but fails to mention that MS doesn't even manufacture PC's. So, the comparison should really only be on the OS, not the hardware. So then their argument should be about who has the most "bloat" in their code. MS wins.
Second - If they were comparing hardware, MS (i.e. PC) doesn't make hardware. So, no dongle will help with watching TV, DVR projector, etc since there is no Microsoft box to plug it into. Win 7 doesn't ship with a free blu-ray drive last time I checked. Card reader? where? Not in your Win 7 retail packaging.
Third - Trying to compare Office to iWork? File compatibility? Yes, Office has more enterprise support with tailored business functions that outshine iWork. No qualms there, however, only iWork can open and save in both the iWork and Office formats. In my book, that is an upper-cut knockout of Office. Oh, and Mac can run office too!
Why does MS have to compare other company's hardware to Apple, when MS doesn't make that hardware? Colors, really? You can get any color skin, case, shell, etc for the MacBook Pro's 'cause they are a standardized Apple spec, whereas you cannot get custom fit accessories for PC laptops... they can't be universal when every PC manufacturer changes their case design to be even more crappy from iteration to iteration.
Case in point... My work issued computer is a PC. HP Elitebook 6930p. It is all plastic and then skinned with aluminum. IT IS A POS!!!! First gimmick is that it has a button on the top of the screen that pops out a LED light to light up the keyboard.... what the h#$@?!?!?! It weighs a ton, it creeks when you open it, battery life is abysmal, trackpad is small and un-responsive. Buttons click like cheap plastic.
My 2 year old (personal) MBP 15" Unibody is more responsive, seems more powerful with a slower / older processor. Screen is much better, brighter and crisper. Keys still feel like new. Case is all-aluminum and scratch and ding free. No creaking when opening the lid. If I could use my personal laptop instead of the work laptop on our corporate network, I would in a heartbeat. Sad to think in this day and age in the computer world where tech is changing rapidly that when you reach the lifespan of most laptops (2 years) that a 2+ year old "dinosaur" in today's terms would be favored over newly released, supposedly more advanced and better hardware.
To me, Apple gets "it". Work performance gains in the OS, not more glitz. Stick to the core OS, not the bloat. Sure, Apple computers cost more, but they hold their value better, and they last a LOT longer than a comparable PC... Shoot, My wife's 24" iMac that is 4 years old is still faster and more capable than the newest HP/Dell computers being pushed out to our company.... go figure.
First - MS is basically claiming that their "computers" (i.e. PC) are more functional than Mac but fails to mention that MS doesn't even manufacture PC's. So, the comparison should really only be on the OS, not the hardware. So then their argument should be about who has the most "bloat" in their code. MS wins.
Second - If they were comparing hardware, MS (i.e. PC) doesn't make hardware. So, no dongle will help with watching TV, DVR projector, etc since there is no Microsoft box to plug it into. Win 7 doesn't ship with a free blu-ray drive last time I checked. Card reader? where? Not in your Win 7 retail packaging.
Third - Trying to compare Office to iWork? File compatibility? Yes, Office has more enterprise support with tailored business functions that outshine iWork. No qualms there, however, only iWork can open and save in both the iWork and Office formats. In my book, that is an upper-cut knockout of Office. Oh, and Mac can run office too!
Why does MS have to compare other company's hardware to Apple, when MS doesn't make that hardware? Colors, really? You can get any color skin, case, shell, etc for the MacBook Pro's 'cause they are a standardized Apple spec, whereas you cannot get custom fit accessories for PC laptops... they can't be universal when every PC manufacturer changes their case design to be even more crappy from iteration to iteration.
Case in point... My work issued computer is a PC. HP Elitebook 6930p. It is all plastic and then skinned with aluminum. IT IS A POS!!!! First gimmick is that it has a button on the top of the screen that pops out a LED light to light up the keyboard.... what the h#$@?!?!?! It weighs a ton, it creeks when you open it, battery life is abysmal, trackpad is small and un-responsive. Buttons click like cheap plastic.
My 2 year old (personal) MBP 15" Unibody is more responsive, seems more powerful with a slower / older processor. Screen is much better, brighter and crisper. Keys still feel like new. Case is all-aluminum and scratch and ding free. No creaking when opening the lid. If I could use my personal laptop instead of the work laptop on our corporate network, I would in a heartbeat. Sad to think in this day and age in the computer world where tech is changing rapidly that when you reach the lifespan of most laptops (2 years) that a 2+ year old "dinosaur" in today's terms would be favored over newly released, supposedly more advanced and better hardware.
To me, Apple gets "it". Work performance gains in the OS, not more glitz. Stick to the core OS, not the bloat. Sure, Apple computers cost more, but they hold their value better, and they last a LOT longer than a comparable PC... Shoot, My wife's 24" iMac that is 4 years old is still faster and more capable than the newest HP/Dell computers being pushed out to our company.... go figure.
hahaha
Actually, I worked a paper route to buy my first mac in 1984. Took forever.
I worked hard to make enough cash that I now own a large property and house paid csh down, no loans. That was done with my work, not gifting/inheritances. Moved out of the parent's house at age 20.
And I always purchased Macs by hard work. Sorry to blow your insecure perceptions. Don't worry: you can earn money if you work at it and aim for doing more than the next guy while making yourself a valuable commodity of the work force. Then you can get a Mac too.
The problem with both Apple and MS/PC fans is that everyone always says "well, my _____ is better". Better? At what? Be specific.
Apple is better than PC at surfing the web? Wrong. They are identical.
Apple is better than PC at running MS Office? Wrong. They are identical software titles with the exact same features that even diehards use.
PC is better at file sharing or printer sharing? Mmmm. Doubt it. Both Apple and MS since 2000 have made their file and printer sharing pretty darn easy for the home novice. Perfect? No. But nothing's perfect.
The list can go quite on so long as people get specific and people counter with questions.
I own both a Mac and a few Windows XP boxes. I prefer Windows over the Mac for a few reasons:
1)PCs, for what I use them for, are more affordable. That's dollars people. I can keep my existing monitor and buy a new $450 desktop machine every 3-4 years simply for the latest CPU and/or other hardware that is more standard RATHER than just upgrading my box. Or I can buy a WHOLE BRAND NEW SYSTEM for $700 which includes a sweet 20"+ monitor. No matter how much you spin it, you cannot buy a $700 desktop system (includes monitor, keyboard, mouse) for $700 from Apple. Or $800. Or $900. Or $1000. Or $1100. Apple's base is $1200 for an iMac or $1596 for a Mini with kb/mouse/monitor. That's a huge price difference between platforms. Gigantic.
2)I've been using Windows since 1992...mainly because Apple was almost dead and I (a techie) wasn't going to invest my money or knowledge in a platform that was used by 5% of the world. That wasn't my problem and that's why even today Apple is below 10% marketshare. Maybe in a few years Apple will have 20% marketshare which will be quite cool...more and more people owning Macs to be able to help and talk with for questions/advice/help/support/etc.
3)It's really OS vs OS. Since Apple went Intel (a smart idea), all the hardware that is available on a PC is available on a Mac and vice versa...therefore, do I think I need to spend a $200-$400 premium on an OS? I don't see the value. 80% of the time I am doing work on the web...with a browser that works on both Mac and Apple and thus provides the EXACT experience...paying bills, reading articles, email, and the billions of other things we do on the web. iTunes? Got it on Windows, too. MS Office, got it on Windows, too.
4)Everyone in the business world (which is where I work) uses Windows...also 100% of my family/friends/neighbors use Windows...hence I am still a Windows person. Compatibility, questions, support, recommendations, etc.
Again, those are my reasons.
What I would like to see is Apple bring back more of a box that is under $800 and allows for easy upgrading. Before you scream "The Mini!!!", the Mini is basically a laptop minus the keyboard and mouse...anyone can create that tiny little box. I want a box that is larger...where I don't need a putty knife to open it up...and that comes standard with 7200RPM drives...and allows me to easily plop in more drives or memory or a new card (eSata or USB3.0 for example). Even though I am technical, there are a lot of non-technical people who simply want to add a bit of ram or add an internal bluray/dvd/cd drive.
-Eric
Apple is better than PC at surfing the web? Wrong. They are identical.
Apple is better than PC at running MS Office? Wrong. They are identical software titles with the exact same features that even diehards use.
PC is better at file sharing or printer sharing? Mmmm. Doubt it. Both Apple and MS since 2000 have made their file and printer sharing pretty darn easy for the home novice. Perfect? No. But nothing's perfect.
The list can go quite on so long as people get specific and people counter with questions.
I own both a Mac and a few Windows XP boxes. I prefer Windows over the Mac for a few reasons:
1)PCs, for what I use them for, are more affordable. That's dollars people. I can keep my existing monitor and buy a new $450 desktop machine every 3-4 years simply for the latest CPU and/or other hardware that is more standard RATHER than just upgrading my box. Or I can buy a WHOLE BRAND NEW SYSTEM for $700 which includes a sweet 20"+ monitor. No matter how much you spin it, you cannot buy a $700 desktop system (includes monitor, keyboard, mouse) for $700 from Apple. Or $800. Or $900. Or $1000. Or $1100. Apple's base is $1200 for an iMac or $1596 for a Mini with kb/mouse/monitor. That's a huge price difference between platforms. Gigantic.
2)I've been using Windows since 1992...mainly because Apple was almost dead and I (a techie) wasn't going to invest my money or knowledge in a platform that was used by 5% of the world. That wasn't my problem and that's why even today Apple is below 10% marketshare. Maybe in a few years Apple will have 20% marketshare which will be quite cool...more and more people owning Macs to be able to help and talk with for questions/advice/help/support/etc.
3)It's really OS vs OS. Since Apple went Intel (a smart idea), all the hardware that is available on a PC is available on a Mac and vice versa...therefore, do I think I need to spend a $200-$400 premium on an OS? I don't see the value. 80% of the time I am doing work on the web...with a browser that works on both Mac and Apple and thus provides the EXACT experience...paying bills, reading articles, email, and the billions of other things we do on the web. iTunes? Got it on Windows, too. MS Office, got it on Windows, too.
4)Everyone in the business world (which is where I work) uses Windows...also 100% of my family/friends/neighbors use Windows...hence I am still a Windows person. Compatibility, questions, support, recommendations, etc.
Again, those are my reasons.
What I would like to see is Apple bring back more of a box that is under $800 and allows for easy upgrading. Before you scream "The Mini!!!", the Mini is basically a laptop minus the keyboard and mouse...anyone can create that tiny little box. I want a box that is larger...where I don't need a putty knife to open it up...and that comes standard with 7200RPM drives...and allows me to easily plop in more drives or memory or a new card (eSata or USB3.0 for example). Even though I am technical, there are a lot of non-technical people who simply want to add a bit of ram or add an internal bluray/dvd/cd drive.
-Eric
Because they have a ton of bloatware preinstalled. What are they thinking i dont' really know.
Check this out: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/352927/the-crapware-con
I know this is old but the mac a few years ago got pwned by a flash exploit which is now patched but I'm sure there are other exploits, so I ask with all your education can you tell me why me as a user would care that my computer fell because of a third party exploit or an OS hole?
edit: I think iOS shows given motivation OS X can be broken
Dell has the same thing: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/apple-comparison?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
yes, in which they omit to state that the i7s in the macs are more powerful than those in their machine, that the mac ram is faster and the screen has a higher pixel count (among other things.) Bless.
Flawless and iPhone 3G don't go well on the same sentence, have you tried iOS 4? How flawless is that....hell, OS 3.0 was far from flawless.
Ok, so, I'm a Windows user (obviously, look at my sig), and while I generally am a fan of most things PC, this Microsoft campaign sounds kind of lame. I mean really, some of the arguements given in the ad... I cringed at some of them, because I know its a stretch of the truth. But whatever.
I am impressed by Apple's marketing. It is very clear they are taking the long road in gaining market share. Influence and impress the younger generation, and they will stick with Macs as they age. It really is quite genius. Therefore, the Mac marketshare is only going to increase overtime, at least here in the USA.
Personally though, the joy in being a 'PC' guy is building my rigs- using a desktop creation that I've put together with my own two hands, after having chosen the components carefully, knowing how parts interoperate, and how not to contract viruses. Not surprisingly, I don't encounter issues with my Windows rig, primarily because I know how it works and how to responsibly use one (Apple fanboys' long-held cliche arguements against PC's always amuse me). All in all, I don't think Apple will ever offer me the same experience, which is why I have no interest in Macs.
But Microsoft really needs some help in their marketing department!
I am impressed by Apple's marketing. It is very clear they are taking the long road in gaining market share. Influence and impress the younger generation, and they will stick with Macs as they age. It really is quite genius. Therefore, the Mac marketshare is only going to increase overtime, at least here in the USA.
Personally though, the joy in being a 'PC' guy is building my rigs- using a desktop creation that I've put together with my own two hands, after having chosen the components carefully, knowing how parts interoperate, and how not to contract viruses. Not surprisingly, I don't encounter issues with my Windows rig, primarily because I know how it works and how to responsibly use one (Apple fanboys' long-held cliche arguements against PC's always amuse me). All in all, I don't think Apple will ever offer me the same experience, which is why I have no interest in Macs.
But Microsoft really needs some help in their marketing department!
So are you now comparing mobile phone operating systems rather than the desktop/laptop operating systems that are the subject of this discussion. Shall we compare iOS to windows mobile - is that what you'd rather do?!
I have a Studio 1558, RAM is DDR3 1333 dual channel, faster than the one on the MAC (1066), screen is LED 1920x1080, again higher than the MBP with similar spec (1680-by-1050 MAX). The i5 processor can be scaled in both, both you will end up paying more than double if you want a similarly spec'd MAC to the Dell
Since Apple did not lie in their ads, this tells me a lot about your motives and viewpoint. You are repeating Windows propaganda, so I don't think you ever really went Mac, so to speak.
Are we complaining about the ads? It's more the case that we are complaining about the absurd bullet points they chose. We're laughing at Microsoft more than complaining about Microsoft. Nothing hypocritical about that.
If you read the whole thread, I didn't brought that up.....reading comprehension failing at its max. I just found that sentence ridiculous to say the least. Like I said, I love apple's mobile devices and own several myself. Their desktop OS and hardware I can't stand.
Lies and misleading statements like this are so unethical to even post.
How can you possibly state that a 4 year old "machine" is faster than any "new machine" by HP or Dell...or by any computer manufacturer?!
You're telling me that your Intel Core 2 iMac is faster than the i7 chips today? Really? Or the Xeon chips that Dell and HP sell on their business class machines? And your 4 year old iMac supports USB 3.0 just like most of the new Dell and HP $800 desktops?! And let me guess, your 4 year old iMac with 667MHz ram is SOMEHOW faster than the newer 1066 MHz and 1333MHz ram chips deployed in most Dell and HP desktop machines today. Or that the average PC desktop today ships with 3GB of RAM compared to your 1GB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_(Intel-based)#Polycarbonate_iMac
Lastly, how can you compare your wife's personal computer (and her buying decision/budget) to that of a business?!
-Eric
I agree with you entirely. Microsoft don't build computers, they build an operating system. Therefore if you want to build a PC, you're not building a Mac as only Apple build Macs, urgo if you like to tinker and build things then it's not going to be a Mac. Nothing to stop you then installing OSX however, but again, it's not a Mac.
Macs aren't for people who want to build their computer, they are for people who want computers to come from the shop, plug in and work. The lack of choice is a good thing for mac users, if you want more choice than is on offer, then Apple isn't going to float your boat.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but from what I've read in this Microsoft campaign, Microsoft don't appear to be able to find any valid weaknesses in the Mac, the copy is awful, the 'features' listed are laughable and there are also several untruths in amongst the copy.
I'm sorry, it's your writing which is open to misinterpretation. The OP was talking about flawless operation in computers, not the mobile device OS. Which you then pick fault with.
"I didn't brought that up."
Says it all really.
I like my first Mac alot. Even though I thought W7 was working pretty darn well. I decided to try a Mac book pro. Frankly my Mac is a very nice machine. Though I don't feel like the price I paid is worth the extra value. Not sure at this time what I will do when this machines dies. I'm just sorry I paid such a high tax for such a over priced product......Oh well it is a fun experiment.
1) WWDC was iOS focused. We knew that before the event even started. Next year will likely be the opposite.
2) Oh FFS people need to stop beating that quote to death. What hate? It was an analogythat traditional desktop computers and their operating systems are becoming a specialized market of products. And he's 100% right. He is NOT saying that a truck is useless or that macs are pointless and being phased out. He's just saying the evolution of the marketplace and the way we want to consume content is changing the desktop's role (not just macsall computers).
3) The 'Get a Mac' campaign was getting long in the tooth. After what? 50+ ads it was time to move on. And advertising macs would be overkill right now. They've already got a bazillion people flocking to their stores to check out the iPhone/Pad/Pod. In case you haven't noticed, mac sales are up even without the advertising.
4) OS X is likely undergoing some radical development, which is why we know so little. Look at the job opening descriptions. Looks at the little bits of hardware being leaked. Look at the company acquisitions. They're doing something and obviously being very tight-lipped. Apple has no reason to feel insecure about their offerings nor market performance for the time being. So they have no reason to reveal any details at this time. Be patient.
Yes, as several of you have already noted, Microsoft does not make PCs. So what a strange campaign for them. They make Windows which works on a PC or a Mac equally well. So what Microsoft makes does not require a PC. Yet that is what they are advertising?