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Maybe he's implying that Charlie Miller is a masochist and likes walking around with a highly vulnerable OS because he's a glutton for punishment? Wait, I know, he's saying Charlie Miller is a fan boy, too! LOL

And yet Charlie Miller said it. Not me not anyone. Yet you and gamecockmac just ignore it and make it like I'm making crap up.

I've never lied about how horrid windows is. It just is! Trust me, I am a former Microsoft trained applications developer. I have worked with SQL Server, Windows servers, Windows desktops, .NET technologies and do not ever want to work with anything MS again unless a client really needs it. Does that make me a fanboy because I choose the operating system that just works - OSX?

Nope, that's not what makes you a fanboy. Liking something more than something else doesnt.

Saying OS X is more secure than windows, then given evidence that it might not be more secure then ignoring it and saying it's a FUD makes a person a fanboy.

I could care less if one person likes windows or OSX. It doesn't make me money either way. It just irks the hell out of me when I see lies and distortions about thing. That's it.
 
I don't have to ask him anything, his actions tell me everything I need to know.

Yeah that Mac's are super easy to hack compared to windows. Yep, glad you read the article.

For those that missed it.
Quote from Charlie Miller taken from an article at ZDnet.com


Why Safari? Why didn’t you go after IE or Safari?

It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows.

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it. With my Safari exploit, I put the code into a process and I know exactly where it’s going to be. There’s no randomization. I know when I jump there, the code is there and I can execute it there. On Windows, the code might show up but I don’t know where it is. Even if I get to the code, it’s not executable. Those are two hurdles that Macs don’t have.

It’s clear that all three browsers (Safari, IE and Firefox) have bugs. Code execution holes everywhere. But that’s only half the equation. The other half is exploiting it. There’s almost no hurdle to jump through on Mac OS X.

On a scale of 1-10, how impressive was the Nils’ sweep of exploiting all three main browsers?

I was surprised. For IE 8, I’d give him a 9 out of 10. For Safari, maybe a 2. It’s just too easy to pop Safari. For Firefox on Windows, I give him a 10. That was the most impressive of the three. It’s really hard to exploit Firefox on Windows.

Now spin that??? What's harder to hack again?????

also an article titled "pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings"

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings/2748
 
Unfortunately, that's enough to get the "fanboi" label here on MacRumours - calling out people for biased lying isn't accepted. ;)

Apparently, it's only acceptable if you're doing it to troll the forum or defend Windows/Android from the big-bad Apple "fanboys". :rolleyes:

Yeah that Mac's are super easy to hack compared to windows. Yep, glad you read the article.

If that's what it tells you, then I'm sorry I've been trying to talk some sense into someone who clearly is struggling with a learning disability.

You have my sympathies. I know it must be tough going through life like that.
 
If that's what it tells you, then I'm sorry I've been trying to talk some sense into someone who clearly is struggling with a learning disability.

You have my sympathies. I know it must be tough going through life like that.

Nice, I like your style. No point in going further with this. I feel sorry for you as well. My sympathies to you too.
 
The million dollar question.

For those in the thread contemptuous of the Mac and portraying yourselves as Mac users, please explain to everyone why you would use a Mac and risk yourself being hacked? It truly boggles the mind.

Years as a Windows Systems Admin taught me that in no way, shape or form would I want to deal with that nightmare in my off hours or, for that matter, pay good money for a computer that meant being afraid of hooking it up to the Internet.
 
Maybe I should draw some stick figures.

Now that would be funny.

For those in the thread contemptuous of the Mac and portraying yourselves as Mac users, please explain to everyone why you would use a Mac and risk yourself being hacked? It truly boggles the mind.

Years as a Windows Systems Admin taught me that in no way, shape or form would I want to deal with that nightmare in my off hours or, for that matter, pay good money for a computer that meant being afraid of hooking it up to the Internet.

Portraying?? Ok, nothing contemptuous here. Like I said just irks me to see lies and half-truths. Could be about anything.

I like both operating systems, they both have their pros and cons. They both have their uses. I don't use a pick when I need a shovel or a fork when I need a knife. But I'll praise and bash both equally.

I prefer using the mac because of the hardware. They are beautiful and sexy.
 
*face-in-palm*

Sigh. Guess I will have to break it down for some people.

From the interview:

Alan: So, if you had to make a recommendation, Mac, PC, or Linux? Or do you find them to be equally (in)secure?

Charlie: I'll leave Linux out of the equation since I know my grandma couldn't run it. Between Mac and PC, I'd say that Macs are less secure for the reasons we've discussed here (lack of anti-exploitation technologies) but are more safe because there simply isn't much malware out there. For now, I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it would be easier for them.


Above he describes Macs as less secure than PCs but goes on to say Macs "are more safe" due to the reality that they are hardly targeted. Also, even though Miller is a security expert, he contends that he'd "still recommend Macs for typical users" (note that he did not say über security experts) for the aforesaid reasons.

In essence, PCs are safer in theory, but it is the Mac that is safer in reality.
 
Sigh. Guess I will have to break it down for some people.

From the interview:

Alan: So, if you had to make a recommendation, Mac, PC, or Linux? Or do you find them to be equally (in)secure?

Charlie: I'll leave Linux out of the equation since I know my grandma couldn't run it. Between Mac and PC, I'd say that Macs are less secure for the reasons we've discussed here (lack of anti-exploitation technologies) but are more safe because there simply isn't much malware out there. For now, I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target them it would be easier for them.


Above he describes Macs as less secure than PCs but goes on to say Macs "are more safe" due to the reality that they are hardly targeted. Also, even though Miller is a security expert, he contends that he'd "still recommend Macs for typical users" (note that he did not say über security experts) for the aforesaid reasons.

In essence, PCs are safer in theory, but it is the Mac that is safer in reality.

Thank you for that. That is exactly what I said in my first post. I admit the computer illiterate part was harsh. But that is what I said in my first post.
 
I prefer using the mac because of the hardware. They are beautiful and sexy.

+1 to you for good taste.

I, too, would argue that in some instances, Windows or Linux makes more sense for some folks due to their circumstances. However, those instances are rare in my experience.

Let's agree to disagree and instead go...
 

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(On my XP machine)
Gets updated at least monthly.
But of course. Seemingly every other wednesday...except when something particularly critical comes through (all five nights this week).

Are double posts allowed?

Apparently, it's only acceptable if you're doing it to troll the forum or defend Windows/Android from the big-bad Apple "fanboys". :rolleyes:
Minimizing the meta-discussion, double-posting is indirectly allowed when it is the result of the Moderators cutting out a bunch of unproductive posts (that's where my 'double' on this thread came from yesterday). Unfortunately, what did get passed by from that recent intervention was a "make lemonaid" opportunity to use a "Tiffany Tax" analogy to illustrate the fallacies in the classical "Apple Tax" recurring topic. Bottom line here is that product differentiations always exist, as well as variation in consumer perceptions & prioritizations thereof, which lead to a YMMV on their relative worth.

Thank you for that. That is exactly what I said in my first post. I admit the computer illiterate part was harsh. But that is what I said in my first post.

+1 to you for good taste.

I, too, would argue that in some instances, Windows or Linux makes more sense for some folks due to their circumstances. However, those instances are rare in my experience.

Let's agree to disagree and instead go...

IMO, what's a pretty clear line is that Apple really isn't ready for Enterprise in comparison to the ecosystem that Microsoft & 3rd Parties have built up around Windows. Of course, one can also look at the still very high retention rate for XP and conclude that Microsoft still has some work to do too.

What this News Topic ('PC vs Mac' website) really is about is not that Business/Enterprise segment, but is representative of competition in the home consumer segment. We can recognize that this is where Apple's focus is, and this website is Microsoft responding to their erosion of influence (and sales) in that segment.

And with the recent news of seemingly huge percentages of college freshmen going off to school with Macs under their arms, the long term business implications of this for what the future home marketplace is going to look like in ~5 years is not particularly an optimistic one for Microsoft. Expect this to be merely the first response of MS in trying to defend their sales in this market segment.

Of course, there's always more factors to consider. For example, with the increasing capability of internet-savvy consumers, they're less likely to simplistically accept just a brand's marketing pitch and do their own research. As such, when the pitch contains slants (selective truths, etc), there will eventually be a threshhold crossed (YMMV as to exactly where) where the consumer will be turned off by the marketing spin and effectively be driven away from what they likely consider is an "untrustworthy" corporation...which all means that the marketing approach backfired. There's various means to minimize this marketing downside risk, including saying less than your competitor (fewer opportunities to screw up or alienate, etc)...examples can be found in local politics (elections are coming soon in the USA).



-hh
 
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