Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[jeznav]

The point is that Macs are not immune to viruses. As more users begin to use the Macintosh operating systems I can guarantee you that viruses for this operating system will become more prevalent.

Though you are right about no such operating system that are immune to viruses, there have been no ACTIVE Mac viruses out there that caused system damage that requires a full wipe and reinstall of the OS.

You can count all Mac Viruses/Trojans that ever existed but none ever propegated compared to Windows.

I've been a windows user for over 15 years, and I've encountered viruses/malwares that corrupt registry, erase boot partitions/file allocation tables, trojaned and remote hacked. I was so sicken tired of reinstalling Windows, reinstalling Programs and settings, that I even made recovery images every months.

So I made a commitment to switch to Linux for a few years, until I found OSX can do the things I love in Linux and never look backed to Windows again.

 

[JCCL]

double post.

 

[JCCL]

I'm sorry, it's your writing which is open to misinterpretation. The OP was talking about flawless operation in computers, not the mobile device OS. Which you then pick fault with.

"I didn't brought that up."

Says it all really.

Yeah, I am sure you can write in your third language as good as I write in English.

 

[balamw]

yes, in which they omit to state that the i7s in the macs are more powerful than those in their machine, that the mac ram is faster and the screen has a higher pixel count (among other things.) Bless.

Plus, they include their discount, but conveniently forget to add in the $200+free iPod Touch discount that Apple is currently going with on those models.

B

 

[eponym]

Oh man. This MS mini site is hilarious.

Macs don't work as well at work or at school.
If most of the computers in your office or school run Windows you may find it harder to get things done with a Mac.

Sharing documents and spreadsheets.
If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky. Your documents might not look right and your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly.

Giving presentations.
You'll have to buy a separate hardware dongle to plug your Mac into a standard VGA projector. Most PCs with Windows 7 hook up easily.

Protecting your drives.
On a Mac, out of the box, you can only encrypt your home folder. With Windows 7 Ultimate, you can encrypt your entire hard drive and even USB drives. So your stuff can be safer wherever you go.

So much misleading information. It's like a Michael Moore film about computers. And I love that instead of mentioning that MS themselves sell a mac version of Office, they instead choose to take a stab at iWork.

 

[JCCL]

Plus, they include their discount, but conveniently forget to add in the $200+free iPod Touch discount that Apple is currently going with on those models.

B

Well it would still be a 1000 USD difference, not really helping is it?

 

[jahall]

I've used Windows 7 and hated it! And this page: there are so many things about this that tick me off, here are a few.

-"The PC has bluray, more software choices, and more!" - Even sixth graders know that a) more is an overused word and b) you shouldn't use it, let alone twice in a sentence!

- They talk about hooking up a TV to the computer and only mention photos and videos: well if that's all, it's called Apple TV and it's wonderful.

- "Time To Learn" - I've taught people how to use Windows. It takes a good month.

-"Working Hard": My school has all Windows and my work has all Windows. So far, I've had 0 problems.

-So far, I haven't had any sharing problems. And I like being able to control my iTunes with my iPod!

-No, iWork format files won't open if you're unfortunate enough to need to use a PC. But if you do, just tick the little "save as Word" and go! This usually works pretty well for what I've done so far.

-Programs I've used all work the same way on Mac as PC. The only difference is the location of the menu bar, which is more convenient on Mac.



I'll stop ranting now.

...but let's just say, I took their survey. Sorry, M$, but you deserved it.

 

[balamw]

Well it would still be a 1000 USD difference, not really helping is it?

Yes, but they are comparing apples to oranges.

Taking their featured system, upgrading to W7 Pro (needed to join an AD domain, a prerequisite for many places). Upping to the faster processor i7-840 (1.86 GHz) (the Macs use faster Arrandale not Clarksfield CPUs). I end up at $1425 after discount as compared with $1699 after discount for the entry level (not high end) 15" MBP and that comes with an iPod touch.

Yes, the Dell is cheaper, but it is not a 2X difference unless you stack the deck. (low end Dell vs. High end Mac).

EDIT: I see now I'm comparing an i5 Mac to the i7 Dell. The i5 version of the Dell is back around ~$1000 after discount.

EDIT: I actually think the main weakness of this is the "It's familiar/compatible" argument. I've seen experienced XP users driven to tears (OK almost) when presented with Vista/7 and trying to do something that they have done every day for years and finding it gone/missing/changed beyond recognition. Ultimately they adapt and find a new workflow, but it's just as much of a transition as switching to Mac. And don't get me started on Office document compatibility. It's a myth. Even between similar versions of Office you can get documents that render very differently on different machines.

B

 

[ranguvar]

Also Windows has a MUCH better API structure than OSX.

I doubt you have written drivers for either platform.

Drivers work better on PC than they do on Mac because the PC is more open..

The Mac OS X kernel is open-source. Mac OS X and even iOS can pretty much run all *nix programs. The PC is definitely more open .

Games run faster. Programs are more optimized.

This has nothing to do with the operating system but with the developer. Personally, I have experienced most Mac OS X applications to be way more polished and carefully crafted than most Windows programs.

 

[LagunaSol]

What microsoft is writing is not even half as bad as the half-truths and lies that Apple told for years in their ' I'm a Mac ' adverts.

I keep hearing this accusation from the Winbot horde yet no one ever mentions any specific examples.

Please, point out a single lie found in any one of these Apple commercials. Seriously. Back up your argument with a fact. We're waiting.

 

[MSean101]

Twitter feed on MS's "PC vs. Windows" page

Has anybody tried to search for the tweets listed in the "What the buzz is about..." box on the "PC vs. Mac" page? I looked for about a dozen of them and I can't find a single one. One of the alleged tweets (that read, "Just got #Win7 and love it!") was from a user whose posts are all in Spanish. Is it me, or does this seem kinda bogus? (At the very least, some of the tweets are months and months old...)

 

[WeegieMac]

Sorry, I've just finished drying my eyes after laughing so hard at the utter drivel on that site.

I actually thought the "Macs only come in white or silver" was a tongue in cheek joke by someone on here, not a genuine exert from the site itself.

The rest is woefully ill informed and poorly worded. Aside from Blu-Ray playback (which is better on a home theatre and big screen rather than a computer, in my opinion), and the incompatibility between word processing documents created on the Mac but opened on Windows, the site is garbage.

For such a prestigious company, they have real trouble wording things in such a way that it doesn't sound like a Primary School project at best.

 

[Todd H]

Microsoft really needs to hire a new advertising firm because the ads they put out now are terrible.

Probably the worst one is the nerdy college kid going on about how his Windows laptop lets him watch television in the hall while his roommate is getting him some lovin' in their dorm room. The first thing that popped in my head was "I bet his cool, nookie-getting roommate owns a Mac while nerdy virgin boy is still stuck using a Windows PC."

The concept of cool just totally baffles Microsoft.

 

[WeegieMac]

Yes, as several of you have already noted, Microsoft does not make PCs. So what a strange campaign for them. They make Windows which works on a PC or a Mac equally well. So what Microsoft makes does not require a PC. Yet that is what they are advertising?

Exactly.

The likes of HP, Dell, Sony, Compaq, Toshiba, etc must be sitting there going, "Cheers for the free advertisement".

 

[HLdan]

That's no more or no less dumb than some of the claims in the "I'm a mac" adverts.

Oh yeah? How so?

You mean the Get a Mac ad where there are multiple flavors of Vista? Was there only one after all?

You mean the Get a Mac ad where the PC is overweight due to all the bloated trial software pre-installed? Have all PC's always come with just Windows installed with full versions of only essential software?

You mean the Get a Mac ad where the PC has a virus from the 114,000 viruses on the web? Were there never any Windows viruses and security was always iron clad on a Windows?

You mean the Get a Mac ad where the PC is upgrading to Windows 7 but realizes that he can't upgrade from XP, it would require a reformat? Did Microsoft lie to their own customers when they said you couldn't upgrade from XP to 7?

Oh oh, you must mean the Get a Mac ad where the PC is complaining that someone tripped over his power cord and yanked his notebook off from the desk? Was Apple lying when they said they had a Magsafe power connector, something that PC notebooks don't have? Hmph.

 

[mlts22]

Macs don't work as well at work or at school.

If Macs didn't work hard, why are they the majority of campus machines? A lot of professors are Mac only. The reason they are not as prolific in business is because Windows is a lot better at being managed from central consoles where one can even control what wallpaper a user is using. In a CS major, Macs are extremely handy, especially basic UNIX classes and other items which require a command line.

Sharing documents and spreadsheets.

Of course, we bang into the 99% issue (where one office suite saves 99% of the information correctly for another). This is more about what people have standardized on. For the paper written in Word, almost anything (iWork, OOo, MS Office) can read that with few issues. If not, there is always PDF.

Giving presentations.

My iPhone makes for a great remote when doing Keynote stuff, and it easily exports to PowerPoint. Again, if a place is standardized on MS Office for Windows, that isn't Apple's fault. That is like saying a Ford is a lesser vehicle because the business only has Chevy parts.

Protecting your drives.

Well, if you have a computer with a TPM, I will say that BitLocker is best of breed for hard disk encryption. But, how many computers have a TPM chip outside of business PCs? You won't see a consumer laptop sporting one of these chips. How many consumers have the Ultimate version of Windows 7? Not many.

With a Mac, both FileVault, and encrypted disk images come standard. Additionally, TrueCrypt is freely available for securing files that might be on USB flash drives and such.

Now for sales point #1 against Windows 7: Backups. One of the items I see bite students the most is losing files, especially critical reports. Without some sort of backup mechanism in place, people will have horror stories.

Windows 7's backup abilities depend on the edition. For the lower end editions, there is no way to make a complete image. You have to buy a third party tool. For Pro and Ultimate, you can create images, but incremental backups are difficult. Want good backups regardless of edition? A person has to buy a third party program like Retrospect or TrueImage.

Macs, you enable Time Machine on an external drive or Time Capsule, and call it done. For further security, one can install Mozy and have access to files even if the Mac and the external hard disk got destroyed.

Sales point #2: Security. There are a lot of Windows users who end up screaming at friends to "fix my PC" because malware trashed the system, stole their WoW account, spammed the mailboxes with scams saying to pay $500 ransom to some address in Nigeria, and other crap. This does not happen with Macs (unless it is the Windows VM or Boot Camp partition.) Ever clean up an infected Mac since OS 9? I haven't. Macs are not 100% secure, and there have been Trojans out there (like the one that was in a pirated version of iWork '09), but Mac users are not having their systems grind to a halt, nor their identity stolen in the sheer numbers that PCs do.

In a campus environment where there are a lot of blackhats, security is a major issue. This in itself should be a reason why people should go Mac.

 

[kernkraft]

Everybody could, but escapists have to

She looks about as smug and annoying as Justin Long in the Mac ads!

No, you cannot beat Justin Long. He's super-annoying and the king of smug!

The problem with both Apple and MS/PC fans is that everyone always says "well, my _____ is better". Better? At what? Be specific.

Apple is better than PC at surfing the web? Wrong. They are identical.

Apple is better than PC at running MS Office? Wrong. They are identical software titles with the exact same features that even diehards use.

PC is better at file sharing or printer sharing? Mmmm. Doubt it. Both Apple and MS since 2000 have made their file and printer sharing pretty darn easy for the home novice. Perfect? No. But nothing's perfect.


The list can go quite on so long as people get specific and people counter with questions.


I own both a Mac and a few Windows XP boxes. I prefer Windows over the Mac for a few reasons:

1)PCs, for what I use them for, are more affordable. That's dollars people. I can keep my existing monitor and buy a new $450 desktop machine every 3-4 years simply for the latest CPU and/or other hardware that is more standard RATHER than just upgrading my box. Or I can buy a WHOLE BRAND NEW SYSTEM for $700 which includes a sweet 20"+ monitor. No matter how much you spin it, you cannot buy a $700 desktop system (includes monitor, keyboard, mouse) for $700 from Apple. Or $800. Or $900. Or $1000. Or $1100. Apple's base is $1200 for an iMac or $1596 for a Mini with kb/mouse/monitor. That's a huge price difference between platforms. Gigantic.

2)I've been using Windows since 1992...mainly because Apple was almost dead and I (a techie) wasn't going to invest my money or knowledge in a platform that was used by 5% of the world. That wasn't my problem and that's why even today Apple is below 10% marketshare. Maybe in a few years Apple will have 20% marketshare which will be quite cool...more and more people owning Macs to be able to help and talk with for questions/advice/help/support/etc.

3)It's really OS vs OS. Since Apple went Intel (a smart idea), all the hardware that is available on a PC is available on a Mac and vice versa...therefore, do I think I need to spend a $200-$400 premium on an OS? I don't see the value. 80% of the time I am doing work on the web...with a browser that works on both Mac and Apple and thus provides the EXACT experience...paying bills, reading articles, email, and the billions of other things we do on the web. iTunes? Got it on Windows, too. MS Office, got it on Windows, too.

4)Everyone in the business world (which is where I work) uses Windows...also 100% of my family/friends/neighbors use Windows...hence I am still a Windows person. Compatibility, questions, support, recommendations, etc.


Again, those are my reasons.


What I would like to see is Apple bring back more of a box that is under $800 and allows for easy upgrading. Before you scream "The Mini!!!", the Mini is basically a laptop minus the keyboard and mouse...anyone can create that tiny little box. I want a box that is larger...where I don't need a putty knife to open it up...and that comes standard with 7200RPM drives...and allows me to easily plop in more drives or memory or a new card (eSata or USB3.0 for example). Even though I am technical, there are a lot of non-technical people who simply want to add a bit of ram or add an internal bluray/dvd/cd drive.

-Eric

Very good points! But it seems to me that Apple likes the quick bucks from its gadgets and if anything, they want to keep the price levels as high as possible for the computers. They are relying on middle class aspirations and they are milking lower classes who buy into the idea that buying a particular consumer electronics makes them better. It doesn't, but that is just human nature. For that, I don't blame Apple Inc.

I occasionally visit a thread here where forum members post picture of themselves. I also like visiting the latest purchase and 'my car' threads. It is obvious that many people spend disproportionately large amount of their disposable income on Apple hardware. Often you can see basic flats and cheap, old cars (with massive alloy wheels and exhausts), low-cost furniture, dark rooms with low ceilings... and an iPhone, an iMac, an TV and so on... I can see the point of escapism, but come on! The priorities are wrong!

Obsession with computer hardware is just morally wrong, sad and I genuinely feel sorry for people who think that by spending $1200 for a computer and almost as much for an iPhone (during a two-year contract) they enter a family or a club. Most people in the developed world COULD afford Macs.

When I started my career many years ago, entry level graduate jobs in the first company that I worked for paid around £22k ($35.000). That was almost a decade ago. An average UK monthly mortgage payment is almost as much as a Mac Mini. Who couldn't afford a few hundred pounds to pay the premium for a Mac? It's just that most people don't care or just don't see the point of buying Apple. There are other alternatives, many of them are in the same price range too, so the argument that you only buy Mac if you are wealthy is pathetic.

I can go a bit further. I remember a thread where an unemployed young man was planning to queue for the new iPhone. You can buy a phone for almost pennies. There are pre-paid solutions for making calls. If you really want to check emails on the go, you can still rely on other technologies or just buy an iPod Touch and a mobile internet hub or find wifi spots. In some cases, buying a Mac doesn't make you look better-off. It only proves that you make poor consumer choices.

 

[LagunaSol]

Has anybody tried to search for the tweets listed in the "What the buzz is about..." box on the "PC vs. Mac" page? I looked for about a dozen of them and I can't find a single one. One of the alleged tweets (that read, "Just got #Win7 and love it!") was from a user whose posts are all in Spanish. Is it me, or does this seem kinda bogus? (At the very least, some of the tweets are months and months old...)

It wouldn't be the first time Microsoft has "invented" fans to sell its products.

Microsoft Pulls Phony Switch Ad
Wired News Report 10.15.02

Microsoft has pulled a phony Mac-to-PC "switch" ad after the switcher was uncovered as a Microsoft PR rep.

Microsoft had posted a breezy advertisement on its website purportedly written by a freelance writer who switched to Windows from the rival Macintosh platform.

The ad echoes Apple's high-profile Switch campaign, which features ordinary people telling why they switched from the PC to the Mac. Apple's ads uses real people, who clearly identify their names and occupations, and speak in their own voices.

Microsoft's ad, on the other hand, did not identify the woman.

She turned out to be an employee at a public relations company hired by Microsoft: Valerie G. Mallinson of Shoreline, Wash.

Mallinson later acknowledged she was Microsoft's mysterious convert. The Associated Press tracked Mallinson by examining personal data embedded in Microsoft Word documents that Microsoft had published with its controversial ad.

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2002/10/55785
​

And remember all those Zune "fan" sites that magically appeared when the original Zune launched?

Microsoft wants to be your friend. And they'll buy you lunch to prove it.

 

[WeegieMac]

The only people who will take in the info on that site are long term/existing Windows users, or people who aren't tech-savvy when it comes to computers but who have heard about these "Macs" that everyone is talking about.

It basically panders to the mopes. This gave me a right good laugh though:

Intuitive, familiar, and easy to use, PCs do what you want: they just work.

If there's one thing a PC does not do, compared to a Mac, it's "just work". Although Ballmer better beware, stealing an old Apple catchphrase like that.

To be honest, Ballmer is one man I'd never tire of thumping in the face. He's an embarrassment to Microsoft, unlike Bill Gates, who is a man I could genuinely sit and listen to.

Ballmer, with his sweaty pits, jumping around on stage "wooing", talking far too fast while spitting at anyone within six feet of him, while sounding utterly intelligent in the process ... words fail me. I am shocked Gates felt he was the man for that job, but then again the share price doesn't lie.

 

[Mister Snitch]

...mostly using Windows as my main computer. I now just build my own computer every year or so.

Amazing how many people here make the case for Apple with absolutely no idea they're doing so. Yeah, if you're the type that builds his own computer every year or so, you don't want a Mac.

Now, as for the other 99% of the world...

 

[diamond.g]

yes, in which they omit to state that the i7s in the macs are more powerful than those in their machine, that the mac ram is faster and the screen has a higher pixel count (among other things.) Bless.

The i7's in the dells are quad core. The MBP's isn't.

Oh man. This MS mini site is hilarious.
So much misleading information. It's like a Michael Moore film about computers. And I love that instead of mentioning that MS themselves sell a mac version of Office, they instead choose to take a stab at iWork.

Sharing documents and spreadsheets.
If you use Apple's productivity suite, sharing files with PC users can be tricky. Your documents might not look right and your spreadsheets might not calculate correctly.

Giving presentations.
You'll have to buy a separate hardware dongle to plug your Mac into a standard VGA projector. Most PCs with Windows 7 hook up easily.

Those two are somewhat accurate (if taken at face value). I mean most here would say that iWork is superior (which for the most part I do agree), but when it comes to interacting with others (say uploading your resume to Monster.com) you have to use doc or rtf. Neither of which tend to look good when exported from iWork. The presentation this is totally right. I brought a MBP, you have to buy an adapter to be able to interface with pretty much any business projector. I remember, before I started using Macs, how people used to say Macs come with everything that you need, no need for adapters or dongles. Apple used to include dongles when they first started to use them. Now you are on your own (does the Mac Mini come with a VGA adapter still?).

 

[Xenomorph]

In the corporate world, trying to integrate Macs has only hurt us and slowed progress.

Windows & Active Directory, Group Policies, etc makes things SO nice. Not to mention Windows Office is a LOT better than Mac OS X Office.

With a locked down PC, up to date security software, everyone behind a firewall, and somewhat educated users, everything can run like clockwork.

Mac Desktops play along. They don't follow the same rules, and require a little extra effort to install software and change settings, but they work.

Shoe-horning an Apple server into the mix has been a nightmare. Some former higher-ups made a BAD call on that one. Mac OS X doesn't even take advantage of Apple servers (they work just as well with a Windows server), but the Apple Server's out-dated Samba install makes Windows management and connectivity very difficult. Emulation of strictly NT4-domains prevents us from joining Windows 7 boxes, and of course we don't have the power of Group Policies and pushing software.

In the home-world, I would REALLY like my mom to have a Mac. And my sisters. And my dad. And my wife.

I can keep my system(s) running perfectly, but I'm not a fan of visiting family members to update software and scan for malware. They take advantage of NONE of Windows' power, but get hurt by all the disadvantages (malware).

Personally, I'm a Windows-user all the way. I have a lot of Macs, and even some systems running Linux, but I will continue using Windows on my primary systems.
I take advantage of the hardware support, the game support, the application support, etc. I don't suffer from any of the downsides. I'm always up to date, I don't suffer from viruses or malware, etc.

The whole "Mac vs PC" thing is silly. Each has its place. Although I guess some Mac-fans could consider it an insult if I mostly recommended Macs for people who "don't know what they are doing with a computer". It's a good thing that Macs (for the most part) "just work".

 

[LagunaSol]

Very good points! But it seems to me that Apple likes the quick bucks from its gadgets and if anything, they want to keep the price levels as high as possible for the computers.

It's called good business. *head explodes* It's not Apple's fault that the Dells of the world fail to understand this simple concept.

They are relying on middle class aspirations and they are milking lower classes who buy into the idea that buying a particular consumer electronics makes them better.

A typical bogus assertion from the standard Apple haters' list of talking points. I've yet to see anything from Apple that implied that use of its products makes you "cooler" than anyone else.

As for "middle class aspirations" - yes, we all like to believe we're getting something "better" for our money.

I occasionally visit a thread here where forum members post picture of themselves. I also like visiting the latest purchase and 'my car' threads. It is obvious that many people spend disproportionately large amount of their disposable income on Apple hardware. Often you can see basic flats and cheap, old cars (with massive alloy wheels and exhausts), low-cost furniture, dark rooms with low ceilings... and an iPhone, an iMac, an TV and so on... I can see the point of escapism, but come on! The priorities are wrong!

Obviously these ignoramuses should be embracing the Windows "computer for the people," eh comrade? And they should be spending their money on cool cars, furniture, and flats with high ceilings, not cool computers! Amirite?

Wow, talk about doublespeak. Talk about smug.

Obsession with computer hardware is just morally wrong

You should totally start a new charity with Bill Gates called Windows 7 Ultimate For All! (Only $319.99 for a DVD - get it now!)

It's just that most people don't care or just don't see the point of buying Apple.

And that's fine. And for those people, there's a Dell with Windows and free anti-virus software.

In some cases, buying a Mac doesn't make you look better-off. It only proves that you make poor consumer choices.

Microsoft should add this gem to its "PC vs Mac" website.

 

[JAT]

I didn't get the memo that iLink wasn't FireWire.

iLink is the non-powered, 4 wire version. Firewire technically covers all forms, but mostly is used to refer to full 6 wire connection.

 

[CFreymarc]

That doesn't exactly sound like a good sign for the PC industry - as any student of automotive history will tell you, the fins+chrome era of American auto production went on until American cars were massive gas hogs which then got pwned beyond belief by more fuel-efficient imports...

Yup, the "fuel-efficient imports" are called tablet and handheld computers.