Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[UltimaLink]

No, Windows update is a piece of ****. On my Mac, I use Windows infrequently, such that there is almost some update happening. On the mac, software update pops up with a reminder, where I can press "not now".

Windows does this:

Which means I'm constantly interrupted during my work and I can't leave the computer for more than 15 minutes without Windows killing everything I have open.

It just pops up again and again and again. It's like a child saying "are we there yet?", "Can I restart now?", "Can I restart now?", "Can I restart now?"

What's wrong with a "permanently piss off and just install it when I'm done and press restart" button? I still want the automatic updates, I just don't want to be held at ransom every 15 minutes.

I'm assuming this annoyance isn't in Win7...

>XP
>2010

Anyways, yes, 7 improved it, you can have it set to either do it automatically at a certain time, and if you're on and doing something important at that time, you can tell it to remind you in a few minutes, hour, and 4 hours later, then you can restart on your own if 4 hours didn't pass.

Though, I've had times when it doesn't tell me to restart or anything unless the update is critical(As in, if you don't do it you will be in some serious $&!^) so yeah.

Really, Windows isn't as bad as you guys say. Install a good virus protection(I run avast! free version and I've never had a virus, ever.) and then install something better than IE and you're set.

Then again, I'm posting on MacRumors trying to reason with Mac fanboys, this is as bad as trying to reason with *company* fanboys!

 

[blunderboy]

But no, you're doing it wrong:


That's right, blame it on the user.

Why not try to justify the relentless and annoying pop-ups, while you're at it? - - What? Oh, never mind.


Also, quite analogous to an overly zealous, stir-crazy dog, drooling, and panting away..... "Can I go out now..." "Can I restart now?", "Can I restart now?", "Can I restart now?" LOL.

Never mind that this constant badgering brings work flow and productivity to a screeching halt.


This is one of countless reasons why people abandon Windows.

Have you ever attempted to compete with UAC in W7?

Microsoft got rid of the annoying Windows Update restart prompts in Win7; they're just notifications that come up in the taskbar, IIRC. Not as bad. But most people aren't seeing those improvements; they're still on XP and have to deal with Windows Update threatening to kill all their apps and restart every 15 minutes. There's a way to turn it off, but it involves messing around in advanced settings that the average person isn't going to want to mess with.

Oh, god, User Account Control drove me nuts. It wouldn't stop popping up asking me to authorise. Yes, the Mac does pop up the password dialogues when you need elevated privileges, but fewer operations on a Mac's administrator account require that you type your password, unlike with Windows and the 'cancel or allow' dialogue boxes. (Well, Windows 7 uses different wording than 'cancel or allow'—that's Vista—but it's the same thing.)

And UltimaLink: You're a PC user, posting on a Mac forum, trying to tell Mac users that Windows PCs are better. This, um, doesn't add up. Newsflash: I like my Mac! I switched from Windows for a reason. I don't join the Windows 7 forums and talk about how the Mac is better, because it's not respecting the space.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Really, Windows isn't as bad as you guys say. Install a good virus protection(I run avast! free version and I've never had a virus, ever.) and then install something better than IE and you're set.

Isn't so bad? You just explained how you have to install 3rd party software right off the bat to do simply use the web well.

 

[UltimaLink]

And UltimaLink: You're a PC user, posting on a Mac forum, trying to tell Mac users that Windows PCs are better. This, um, doesn't add up.

I'm just here to defend Windows when you guys say that it sucks, always gets viruses, ect.

I also like talking about Apple products when people aren't being fanboys.

Isn't so bad? You just explained how you have to install 3rd party software right off the bat to do simply use the web well.

OH NO I HAVE TO GO TO A WEBSITE AND DOWNLOAD A FREE PROGRAM.

You realize you're grasping at straws here, right?

 

[DMann]

Anyways, yes, 7 improved it, you can have it set to either do it automatically at a certain time, and if you're on and doing something important at that time, you can tell it to remind you in a few minutes, hour, and 4 hours later, then you can restart on your own if 4 hours didn't pass.

Not at all helpful while on a 48 hour crunch-release-deadline.

Every four hours? No thank you.

Then again, I'm posting on MacRumors trying to reason with Mac fanboys, this is as bad as trying to reason with *company* fanboys!

Go figure.

 

[OllyW]

What's wrong with a "permanently piss off and just install it when I'm done and press restart" button? I still want the automatic updates, I just don't want to be held at ransom every 15 minutes.

Why don't you just set Automatic Updates to Download updates for me, but let me choose when to install them?

Set this way it just notifies you when an update is available so you can install it at your convenience.

 

[UltimaLink]

Not at all helpful while on a 48 hour crunch-release-deadline.

Every four hours? No thank you.

There.

 

[blunderboy]

I'm just here to defend Windows when you guys say that it sucks, always gets viruses, ect.

I also like talking about Apple products when people aren't being fanboys.

I do think Windows sucks. That is my subjective opinion. If you're happy with Windows, great. You don't need to convince Mac users that Windows is 'not that bad'. Most of us, as I've said earlier, switched away from Windows for a reason. Because of this, a lot of people don't have favourable opinions of the OS. Telling us that Windows 'isn't that bad' is probably going to fall on deaf ears, because these people were tired of it. It's one thing if you're saying that you can change settings on Windows to make it less irritating, which is constructive and helpful for those of us who have to use Windows in any way.

Re telling Windows Update to ask whether you want updates—it's probably only a good piece of advice for more advanced users. Novices should have the patches done automatically, but the way XP implements it is terrible. At least Microsoft got a clue on that one. I'd said that Win7 improved the update mechanism, but I think people were referring to XP, which most people are still using.

 

[DMann]

There.

And for some reason, you refrained from mentioning this earlier?

Hardly a help for the vast majority - XP users.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

OH NO I HAVE TO GO TO A WEBSITE AND DOWNLOAD A FREE PROGRAM.

You realize you're grasping at straws here, right?

Straw? Yes being able to turn on your pc, connect to the internet and having your browser not crash or infect you with virsus is soo overated

 

[UltimaLink]

Straw? Yes being able to turn on your pc, connect to the internet and having your browser not crash or infect you with virsus is soo overated

Yes, you are grasping at straws.

Avast takes about a minute to download and install, and the only reason I said install a different browser is because others are far more advanced than IE.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

and the only reason I said install a different browser is because others are far more advanced than IE.

like safari? another + for mac, another - for windows.

 

[blunderboy]

Yes, you are grasping at straws.

Avast takes about a minute to download and install, and the only reason I said install a different browser is because others are far more advanced than IE.

How's he grasping at straws? Microsoft presents Windows as a total solution. When you have to download third-party applications, whether they're free or NOT, to make sure that an operating system is usable on the Internet, that is NOT a total solution, and reflects poorly on Microsoft.

 

[UltimaLink]

like safari? another + for mac, another - for windows.

Not really, but ok.

How's he grasping at straws? Microsoft presents Windows as a total solution. When you have to download third-party applications, whether they're free or NOT, to make sure that an operating system is usable on the Internet, that is NOT a total solution, and reflects poorly on Microsoft.

You do realize that if Macs were more popular, you would have to install virus protection too, right? Don't go acting like your all mighty Macintosh is automatically usable out of the box, if it wasn't for the fact OS X isn't used as much as Windows, you would have to install virus protection too.

So yeah, macs aren't technically as usable as you think.

Just wait, Macs are rising in popularity, watch as people start reporting more viruses.

 

[blunderboy]

Not really, but ok.

You do realize that if Macs were more popular, you would have to install virus protection too, right? Don't go acting like your all mighty Macintosh is automatically usable out of the box, if it wasn't for the fact OS X isn't used as much as Windows, you would have to install virus protection too.

So yeah, macs aren't technically as usable as you think.

Just wait, Macs are rising in popularity, watch as people start reporting more viruses.

Almighty Macintosh? LOL. Macs are based on a Unix system; there are inherent difficulties in the ability of a self-replicating virus or worm to spread on a Mac system. Security through obscurity is a myth.

I'm going to bed, and putting my almighty Macintosh to sleep. Until tomorrow.

 

[-hh]

How's he grasping at straws? Microsoft presents Windows as a total solution. When you have to download third-party applications, whether they're free or NOT, to make sure that an operating system is usable on the Internet, that is NOT a total solution, and reflects poorly on Microsoft.

It is a 'FAIL' at the concept of the OEM providing a Turnkey solution. It pragmatically forces the customer to be his own IT Manager (analogy: General Contractor; Project Manager; etc) because of this shortcoming.

You do realize that if Macs were more popular, you would have to install virus protection too, right? Don't go acting like your all mighty Macintosh is automatically usable out of the box, if it wasn't for the fact OS X isn't used as much as Windows, you would have to install virus protection too.

Apparently, someone didn't read Post#1019 in this thread, so here's the math yet again:

In the meantime, real world exploits for OS X remain extremely rare (some people will argue that its effectively zero). When combined with other risk-benefit ratio factors, it strongly infers that OS X isn't "easy" at all.

On this factor, its the numbers that tell the story: contemporary estimates for how many viruses exist in the wild vary, as do the number of new ones per day, so pick whatever you want: I'll go with the very low values of 114,000 with +500 new/day to illustrate.

So.....if Malware writers are divided on an "equal share" basis (ie, they neither target nor ignore an OS), then per the Mac's ~10% marketshare, the malware should be roughly 10% of the total, which would be 11,400 in the wild, and with +50 new each day.

Well, that's obviously wrong. Way, way wrong.


Okay, so lets adjust downwards, by assuming that 9 out of 10 Malware writers who would normally target the Mac doesn't believe its worth their time ("Market too small" paradigm). Thus, we move up from 90% to 99% focus on Windows, thereby ignoring the Mac: by this metric, there should still be 1,140 in the wild and +5 new per day.

Hmmm...we're still way too high.

So adjusting again. Say that its still 99% on ignore, but of the 1% that try, they discover that OS X is 10x harder to crack, which we'll model by saying that it takes them 10x longer (ie, the productivity is 1/10th). Thus, there should be 0.1% of the original, which 114 in the wild and +0.5 new per day (ie, 1 new every 2 days).

Dang, that's still too high. Now what, Batman?

Last go:

99% ignore, and of the 1% that try, its still 10x longer before they're successful, but because of this higher difficulty, 90% give up before getting there (fail to find an exploit). Under this scenario (0.01% of original), we would expect to find 11.4 exploits in the wild, and a new one every 20 days, which is roughly 18 new per year.


Comments are invited. Afterall, no OS is utterly perfect.

Just wait, Macs are rising in popularity, watch as people start reporting more viruses.

Oh, I've been waiting all right, and yet for some reason, the floodgates of doom still haven't opened.


Thus, the pragmatic question I have for the doomsayers is:

What level of OS X marketshare threshold must be crossed before OS X has 0.1% of what Windows has?

FYI, do keep in mind that we're IMO roughly at 10% for 0.001%, which is a ~10,000:1 ratio.



-hh

 

[diamond.g]

And for some reason, you refrained from mentioning this earlier?

Hardly a help for the vast majority - XP users.

Actually that option has existed since Windows has been using Automatic Updates (so it should be there in XP as well). When you first set up XP I believe it should ask you what kind of updates do you want to do.

 

[AidenShaw]

Actually that option has existed since Windows has been using Automatic Updates (so it should be there in XP as well). When you first set up XP I believe it should ask you what kind of updates do you want to do.

You are correct, but if the end user didn't install the end user wouldn't have seen the prompt.

The main option is very logically in "Control Panel" -> "Automatic Updates" in XP - not that hard to find. See attachment 1. (If the controls are greyed out, log in as an administrator.) There's also a button in the "Microsoft Update" control to go to the configuration.

You can also tell automatic updates to install fixes, but not to restart if any users are logged in. See attachment 2. Launch the Group Policy Editor by typing gpedit.msc at the "Run" prompt or in an administrator command terminal. Set the main panel to "Automatic". (Of course, this means that any updates that require a restart will be deferred until you log off.) You can also change the "nag" interval, to for example 1 day instead of every few minutes.

See http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/disable-restart-now/ for more info.

 

[Burger Thing]

News from today:

"Two years ago, Spanair flight JK-5022 crashed shortly after takeoff in Madrid, killing 154 of its 172 passengers and crew. El Pais online newspaper reports that the ground computer used by technicians to query technical malfunctions and responsible for triggering an alarm after three failures are reported in a plane, failed to do so. The computer was infected with trojans"

Here is an article in Spanish. English ones will follow during the next days, I am sure.

In our airline technicians are running Windows PCs, too. I hope they take their time for their daily Anti Malware updates, do daily system scans, etc. Knowing, that sometimes things need to be done quickly under time pressure, especially in this business, I have my serious doubts about that.

The accident was mostly to blame on pilot error - but normally a number of things have to line up in order for an accident to happen. And the trojan/virus infected computer certainly seemed to have played a role. Tragic.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

And for some reason, you refrained from mentioning this earlier?

Hardly a help for the vast majority - XP users.

Figure you need a history lesson on windows yet again.
When xp was first released in 2001 it's default setting was to download them and notify you it was ready to install. It was discovered that people would not install updates for months on end. Malware and virus writers would take the release notes figure out exactly what was path and exploit it. Msblaster for example used a hole that was patch months before hand. In SP2 the default setting was changed to download and install to fix for the idiots who never installed updates. Sadly the updating notification system was not designed with his fox for people stupidity in mind so it would bother you every 15 min. My solution to the problem was to take that restate window and just put it in the bottom right hand corner below he task bar so it would not bother me again. Never pops up to ruin work flow

In window 7 t is a flag that pops up that really does no ruin work flow. It is a lot like the popup you get I. He right hand corner when a new email comes in on out look. Not a big deal and cam be ignored easy enough and setting it to 4 hours means worse case it is going to pop up and it is time for you to get up and take a 15 min break.

 

[AidenShaw]

Here is an article in Spanish. English ones will follow during the next days, I am sure.

So it wasn't due to the pilots not setting the flaps and slats to takeoff configuration, as earlier reports say?

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Sadly the updating notification system was not designed with his fox for people stupidity in mind so it would bother you every 15 min. My solution to the problem

So what you are saying is that not only can microsoft not make a secure os, they also have no taste and forget to make the notification system pleasing so you have to become an IT manager (as a previous poster said) to fix the problem.

Yep sure sounds like MS for you

 

[Burger Thing]

So it wasn't due to the pilots not setting the flaps and slats to takeoff configuration, as earlier reports say?

They did not set the flaps/slats into the take off configuration. Correct. Normally there will be a warning sound in the cockpit, if the plane is not properly configured for take off. It seems that warning was not working due to some malfunctions. If I understand correctly, then because of the nature of the technical malfunctions (or their combinations as such) the plane should have not been dispatched. But technicians failed to realized that because their computer was not working properly.

An accident has never only a single cause.

 

[DMann]

Figure you need a history lesson on windows yet again.

Oh, by all means.

When xp was first released in 2001 it's default setting was to download them and notify you it was ready to install. It was discovered that people would not install updates for months on end.

Who'd have thought?

Malware and virus writers would take the release notes figure out exactly what was path and exploit it. Msblaster for example used a hole that was patch months before hand. In SP2 the default setting was changed to download and install to fix for the idiots who never installed updates. Sadly the updating notification system was not designed with his fox for people stupidity in mind so it would bother you every 15 min.

Ah, that explains it - all Windows users are riddled with stupidity.

My solution to the problem was to take that restate window and just put it in the bottom right hand corner below he task bar so it would not bother me again. Never pops up to ruin work flow

So clever, although, hardly useful while recording, laying down, and mixing music tracks.

In window 7 t is a flag that pops up that really does no ruin work flow. It is a lot like the popup you get I. He right hand corner when a new email comes in on out look. Not a big deal and cam be ignored easy enough and setting it to 4 hours means worse case it is going to pop up and it is time for you to get up and take a 15 min break.

It can even double as an alarm - imagine that!

Saddest apology for a crapstyle notification system, to date.

Congrats!

They did not set the flaps/slats into the take off configuration. Correct. Normally there will be a warning sound in the cockpit, if the plane is not properly configured for take off. It seems that warning was not working due to some malfunctions. If I understand correctly, then because of the nature of the technical malfunctions (or their combinations as such) the plane should have not been dispatched. But technicians failed to realized that because their computer was not working properly.

An accident has never only a single cause.

Sure, why not blame it all on the user, the Microsoft way.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So what you are saying is that not only can microsoft not make a secure os, they also have no taste and forget to make the notification system pleasing so you have to become an IT manager (as a previous poster said) to fix the problem.

Yep sure sounds like MS for you

XP <> windows 7

XP had a fix for people's stupidity. XP had a lot of problems on of which is it was pushed beyond it's life span and being demanded to do things it was never designed to handle. It you stripped xp back to 2004 it was not so bad. 2004 was when it was it was originally going to be replaced. Now it is 2010 and people are still using it. Xp support was originally going to be complelelt drop 2009. Now it is in extended support until 2014. That is a long time for any is to stay active.