Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[linux2mac]

Oh and you think its crummy? People at my work think its bloody brilliant. Fast, stable and a consistent UI. It also lets us open any files from any word processing software that would likely get sent to us.

Ditto! I put an entire elementary school on Open Office and saved them a ton of money and security vulnerabilities - three years and no viruses! My small business clients are also amazed at Open Office's stability and that they can open any MS Office document sent to them - plus it's free!!

 

[blunderboy]

I like OpenOffice in theory, but not in practice for what I use office applications for. It's awesome for basic word processing, spreadsheets and presentations, and has built-in PDF support, which is especially great on non-Mac operating systems. Not to mention, it's got the amazing perk of being free, and can open up Microsoft Office files without you actually having to pay MS for a licence.

However, OpenOffice's interface feels really clunky to me (not I'm too crazy about MS Office UIs, either—MS Office 2007 drove me insane when I had to use it on work Windows boxes), and I don't like the fact that Writer doesn't support advanced typography (ligatures, contextual alternates, oldstyle figures, etc), which Apple's text editors do. Microsoft has only just added these features into Office, at least in Office 2010. Not sure if they're adding them into 2011, but I hope they are. Microsoft included advanced OpenType features as a Windows feature back in the mid-2000s, but didn't put them into the Office text rendering engine until this year. Kerning, as far as I know, has to be turned ON, rather than off, in MS Office, which makes some type render badly. That being said, Office has better support for advanced typography than OpenOffice, which as far as I know, cannot even open .otf font files, which are very common for designers. Not too fond of its layout features, either.

As a graphic designer, I really need to have access to advanced typographical features, so OpenOffice isn't going to cut it. So, yeah, specialist needs can definitely make or break what applications and platforms you use, so I really can't blame anyone who has to use Windows (using that as an example) for mission-critical stuff. So, yeah, I'm just going to wait for MS Office 2011 to get released and buy it. I kind of see Microsoft products for the Mac as a 'necessary evil'—if I've got to use MS for something, I'll use their stuff.

I could be proved wrong, though, and might download the newest OpenOffice to see if things have changed. If they have, I'll write about it.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I like OpenOffice in theory, but not in practice for what I use office applications for. It's awesome for basic word processing, spreadsheets and presentations, and has built-in PDF support, which is especially great on non-Mac operating systems. Not to mention, it's got the amazing perk of being free, and can open up Microsoft Office files without you actually having to pay MS for a licence.

However, OpenOffice's interface feels really clunky to me (not I'm too crazy about MS Office UIs, either—MS Office 2007 drove me insane when I had to use it on work Windows boxes), and I don't like the fact that Writer doesn't support advanced typography (ligatures, contextual alternates, oldstyle figures, etc), which Apple's text editors do. Microsoft has only just added these features into Office, at least in Office 2010. Not sure if they're adding them into 2011, but I hope they are. Microsoft included advanced OpenType features as a Windows feature back in the mid-2000s, but didn't put them into the Office text rendering engine until this year. Kerning, as far as I know, has to be turned ON, rather than off, in MS Office, which makes some type render badly. That being said, Office has better support for advanced typography than OpenOffice, which as far as I know, cannot even open .otf font files, which are very common for designers. Not too fond of its layout features, either.

As a graphic designer, I really need to have access to advanced typographical features, so OpenOffice isn't going to cut it. So, yeah, specialist needs can definitely make or break what applications and platforms you use, so I really can't blame anyone who has to use Windows (using that as an example) for mission-critical stuff. So, yeah, I'm just going to wait for MS Office 2011 to get released and buy it. I kind of see Microsoft products for the Mac as a 'necessary evil'—if I've got to use MS for something, I'll use their stuff.

I could be proved wrong, though, and might download the newest OpenOffice to see if things have changed. If they have, I'll write about it.

If you were doing work which required advanced typographic techniques, wouldn't it be better if you used InDesign or Quark?

 

[blunderboy]

If you were doing work which required advanced typographic techniques, wouldn't it be better if you used InDesign or Quark?

I have InDesign, but I still like to have some typographic control over standard documents.

By the way, OpenOffice seems to finally support OTF ligatures, at least on the Mac. Just downloaded it to see if they improved the UI and features—seems they have.

...but it just 'unexpectedly quit' after an extension update, so who knows whether I'm going to keep using it.

 

[-hh]

I like OpenOffice in theory, but not in practice for what I use office applications for...

(Admin: re-arranged)

I could be proved wrong, though, and might download the newest OpenOffice to see if things have changed. If they have, I'll write about it.

Generally, when an App is free (or even close to it), the consumer's classical 'Value Paradigm' gets a healthy shift, although that's sometimes not necessarily enough. For OO, I can't even recall how long ago I tried it; sounds like its worth considering a new try on my next local machine that I set up.

... (not I'm too crazy about MS Office UIs, either—MS Office 2007 drove me insane when I had to use it on work Windows boxes).....So, yeah, I'm just going to wait for MS Office 2011 to get released and buy it. I kind of see Microsoft products for the Mac as a 'necessary evil'—if I've got to use MS for something, I'll use their stuff...

The (ahem) beloved Ribbon of Office 2007 still is irritating many users - the only thing that has really happened is that the loud public flames have been internalized to quiet grumbling and simmering discontent.

Its really just another warning indicator of the bigger picture perspective, namely that it is unfortunately quite telling when customers increasingly refer to things such as one of a company's flagship products as nothing less than "A Necessary Evil".


Thus, we're back to the original News topic: despite a 90% market share, MS is manifestly afraid ...of something (not necessarily just Apple) to have taken this Marketing step as damage control.

FYI, I refined/revised the above to "Of Something" because while this marketing campaign is overtly OS centric, elements such as the "Sharing documents and spreadsheets" dialog's sidestepping does try to send a message for Apps too. Looking through & beyond to the next level, I'd postulate the strategic implications of Open Office potentially becoming a major competitor to Office in the Educational markets, such that MS might even begin to lose those sales of the $99 Student versions, which is a long term profitability threat, since these are often "Gateway" licenses to future sales of upgrades.


-hh

 

[MacNewsFix]

These points may have already been made, so I apologize in advance if they have been.

To the best of my knowledge, Windows still has no integrated solution for handling PDFs right out of the box. Mac OS X has built-in PDF creation plus viewing and annotating with Preview. I cannot fault MS for leaving it out, as Acrobat seems to be somewhat of a vector for all types of computer malevolence.

While I don't fault Microsoft for responding to the years of the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC commercials and the iOS devices' halo effect, this latest Windows 7 ad campaign is just silly with its litany of half truths and hyperbole. My personal favorite:

Things just don't work the same way on Macs if you're used to a PC. For example, the mouse works differently.

What, moving a mouse left and right in Windows makes the cursor go up and down and visa versa?

I cannot believe the same ad agency that wrote the "Windows 7 Was My Idea" campaign is the same that did this one. Does anybody know if that is the case?

 

[Mike225]

Are you guys still discussing Apple's built in PDF viewer? The one that allowed the iPhone to be hacked as well as OS X?

 

[-hh]

While I don't fault Microsoft for responding to the years of the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC commercials and the iOS devices' halo effect, this latest Windows 7 ad campaign is just silly with its litany of half truths and hyperbole. My personal favorite:

Things just don't work the same way on Macs if you're used to a PC. For example, the mouse works differently.

What, moving a mouse left and right in Windows makes the cursor go up and down and visa versa?

I cannot believe the same ad agency that wrote the "Windows 7 Was My Idea" campaign is the same that did this one. Does anybody know if that is the case?

I don't happen to know, but considering that the "My Idea" campaign was similarly weak & lame IMO, I'd not be at all surprised if it was the same agency.

Are you guys still discussing Apple's built in PDF viewer? The one that allowed the iPhone to be hacked as well as OS X?

FYI, this PDF hole has already been patched, with it being iOS versions 4.0.2 and 3.2.2, and for OS X, via Security Update 2010-005.

The topic of how Apple does seem tend to comparatively take a bit longer to patch is not a new one; their approach tends to result in fewer patches-of-patches, so its a question of "fix it fast" vs "fix it right the first time" difference in support philosophy. Since each approach has their respective strengths & weaknesses, there is no pat answer for which one is better/worse.



-hh

 

[blunderboy]

I don't happen to know, but considering that the "My Idea" campaign was similarly weak & lame IMO, I'd not be at all surprised if it was the same agency.




FYI, this PDF hole has already been patched, with it being iOS versions 4.0.2 and 3.2.2, and for OS X, via Security Update 2010-005.

The topic of how Apple does seem tend to comparatively take a bit longer to patch is not a new one; their approach tends to result in fewer patches-of-patches, so its a question of "fix it fast" vs "fix it right the first time" difference in support philosophy. Since each approach has their respective strengths & weaknesses, there is no pat answer for which one is better/worse.



-hh

This makes a lot of sense. There seem to be fewer long-term security problems with Apple; most of the known security holes are patched up for good, whereas Windows' patches seem to be constantly building on each other as new leaks are sprung. The security of Mac OS X is also less likely to be breached, because of its structure. (The same applies to other Unix and Unix-like operating systems, actually.) I'm not saying it can't be breached, because it can. No operating system is perfect.

 

[linux2mac]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

 

[Derkatwork]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

I have heard that the new xbox 360 (with built in wifi detection) can't get the red ring of death....only because it doesn't have any red LEDs in it.

 

[Eidorian]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

Enjoy it. I'd probably be bored to death.

 

[Mike225]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

My XBOX has never RROD'ed, I finally got rid of a computer from ~2000 (1GHZ P3) that was still in use using Windows 7 at its retirement, I havent had Windows crash on me since I picked up Vista in Summer of 07, my iPhone needs to be rebooted often when SMS starts to fail to load, I often have a hard time waking my iPhone from sleep, my dad's on his third iPhone (2 replacements) because of poor battery life (Not unusual) and a broken vibrate switch, I have friends/family always complaining about their 3G's being slow after 4.0, my girlfirends macbook has had 2 HD replacements as well as 2 of her friends with macbooks, my good friend had an '07 MBP $ihit on itself and he had to replace it with a new one, my friends 13' MB uibody was incredibly slow and took me many minutes to close all the windows he had open because it was so bad, my girlfriend refers to her macbook as "shiitty", and 2 friends who bought iPhone 4's couldnt get their facetime to work also.

See, we can all give stories (mine are true btw), but I don't say Microsoft is perfect and Apple can't make good products because of it.

Your problem is that you see people who defend Microsoft against "attacks" and see them as putting Apple down. I have steered clear of Apple insults if you read all my posts, but the problem lies in your perception.

 

[linux2mac]

Wow I love this forum! I can learn about my problems that I didn't know I had.

 

[lilo777]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

Not really. This is how most of today's computers work (phones is a different story).

 

[blunderboy]

I am still not seeing any of the weaknesses of OSX mentioned by all the posters happily pointing them out. My iMac hasn't crashed ever (it will be a year in October that I switched to Mac), I have had no viruses, my OS hasn't been hacked, since I bought an Airport Extreme (I switched from Linksys) I haven't had to reboot my router when playing online with my PS3 ( my last two Xboxes got the red ring of death), and my iPhone 4 is trouble free ( maybe someone can try to hack it cause I am on it now). All I have seen with every Apple product I have purchased is a headache free computing experience. Am I missing something?

To be fair, Mike, a lot of the Windows folks probably had similar experiences. I didn't, and I'm sure you didn't. I'm not defending Windows as an OS for you or me, but I think that this whole thread is people giving subjective opinions of their OS experiences and making them into absolute truths for everyone. 'Windows is the best!' 'Mac OS X is the best!'

Its really just another warning indicator of the bigger picture perspective, namely that it is unfortunately quite telling when customers increasingly refer to things such as one of a company's flagship products as nothing less than "A Necessary Evil".

I do think that it's a problem that Microsoft doesn't have the same kind of competition for MS Office that it has for Windows, although MS does hold both OS and office monopolies, thanks to aggressive marketing in the 80s and 90s. More people are switching to the Mac and Linux than before, but at least for Mac users, they're still in Microsoft's camp by buying MS Office for Mac. Honestly, I think that Windows licences will be cut into before Office ones are, simply because it has been very difficult for competitors to come up with an office suite that is totally compatible with the de facto standard office apps because of MS' proprietary code. Microsoft can rest on their laurels with Office—hence the lack of sites about competing office suites—but they can't as much with Windows, which is why they put up that PC vs Mac site.

 

[Eidorian]

Yeah...if you live in some fantasy world...

I try not to do so.

Otherwise life goes on regardless.

LOL, my current job ends Sept 2nd. That means I wont be getting paid to sit in my office and surf the net like I do now. So mark your calendar, person with Mac in his name.

I hope you won't be unemployed.

 

[GamecockMac]

LOL, my current job ends Sept 2nd. That means I wont be getting paid to sit in my office and surf the net like I do now. So mark your calendar, person with Mac in his name.

Calendar marked. September 3 is the day person named Mike heads to the unemployment office in San Fran and gets on the government dole.

Congrats!

Also, I didn't realize that Microsoft/Google were laying off astroturfers. Things are indeed tough all over.

 

[Mike225]

Calendar marked. September 3 is the day person named Mike heads to the unemployment office in San Fran and gets on the government dole.

Congrats!

No, its when I head back to school to continue with my Engineering degree

Actually its when I go to my girlfriends for the weekend cuz its her BDay, then the next weekend I go to Aspen for a week at the Ritz Carlton Destination Club with my friends, then I go back to school.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Enjoy it. I'd probably be bored to death.

Try Arch Linux or Fedora, you'll be not bored for the rest of your computing life.

 

[GamecockMac]

Actually its when I go to my girlfriends for the weekend cuz its her BDay, then the next weekend I go to Aspen for a week at the Ritz Carlton Destination Club with my friends, then I go back to school.

Yeah, I hear you...I have to pick up my Ferrari 458 at the dealership in Charlotte two weekends from now and drive my girl down for a week-long stay at the Four Seasons Palm Beach. If it's not one thing, it's another.

Mo' money, mo' problems, huh?

 

[Eidorian]

Try Arch Linux or Fedora, you'll be not bored for the rest of your computing life.

There is no image macro for what I am feeling.

I'll stick with hardware please. Otherwise it's helping plebeians. I'm expecting someone to chime in on how I'm never happy but at least I'm not being called out, again, again.

 

[linux2mac]

Don't worry, white iPhones will be out soon.

 

[-hh]

This makes a lot of sense. There seem to be fewer long-term security problems with Apple; most of the known security holes are patched up for good, whereas Windows' patches seem to be constantly building on each other as new leaks are sprung. The security of Mac OS X is also less likely to be breached, because of its structure. (The same applies to other Unix and Unix-like operating systems, actually.) I'm not saying it can't be breached, because it can. No operating system is perfect.

Agreed that nothing is perfect. It has been quite surprisingly interesting and revealing how by apparently being only "X" amount harder to IRL exploit that the Mac OS has been pragmatically bulletproof for so many years.

I do think that it's a problem that Microsoft doesn't have the same kind of competition for MS Office that it has for Windows, although MS does hold both OS and office monopolies, thanks to aggressive marketing in the 80s and 90s. More people are switching to the Mac and Linux than before, but at least for Mac users, they're still in Microsoft's camp by buying MS Office for Mac. Honestly, I think that Windows licences will be cut into before Office ones are, simply because it has been very difficult for competitors to come up with an office suite that is totally compatible with the de facto standard office apps because of MS' proprietary code. Microsoft can rest on their laurels with Office—hence the lack of sites about competing office suites—but they can't as much with Windows, which is why they put up that PC vs Mac site.

Historically, it was more than merely 'aggressive' marketing; some of us were working in industry back in the days of when a DOS upgrade reliably killed one's current revision of Lotus123. And there's still a few people who actually still keep around an old OS 9 Mac just to run MacProject, because of Microsoft Project's shortcomings despite another decade of alleged improvements.

Yeah, I hear you...I have to pick up my Ferrari 458 at the dealership in Charlotte two weekends from now and drive my girl down for a week-long stay at the Four Seasons Palm Beach. If it's not one thing, it's another.

Indeed! Because of our kitchen renovation, we're only going to be able to take six weeks of vacation this year, and I ended up getting my Porsche repaired instead of just ordering a new one. "Honest!".


-hh

 

[-hh]

(Edit: comment removed)


There is no simple, pat answer that's applicable to everyone, everywhere. Not only are we all different, but so are our needs & priorities.

The best we can hope to do is to recognize what underlies our own personal decisions, and then decide which contributed to each part, so as to better understand what we were attributing value to, and upon what merits.

Thus applied to the original topic, Microsoft does implicitly agree within this marketing campaign that product differences exist between a Windows PC and a Mac to merit a consumer decision that's more complicated than just price. But we can also see that their marketing campaign is trying to transform and redefine differences from features into problems. Doing this devalues them, which can nudge the consumer back to where he had been before the "Apple Better" Mindshare, which was to choose a PC based upon the simplification of just an initial purchase price based commodity decision again, which we know that Microsoft typically wins. From this perspective, their marketing campaign is a quite clever approach.


-hh