Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[linux2mac]

I have heard that the new xbox 360 (with built in wifi detection) can't get the red ring of death....only because it doesn't have any red LEDs in it.

LOL - that is hilarious!

When I bought my PS3 I was impressed that it had built in wi-fi where as my clunky Xbox 360 did not. That is funny that the new 360's have built in wifi. Another classic example of Ballmer & Co.'s philosophy, "if you can't beat them, copy them."

 

[Mike225]

LOL - that is hilarious!

When I bought my PS3 I was impressed that it had built in wi-fi where as my clunky Xbox 360 did not. That is funny that the new 360's have built in wifi. Another classic example of Ballmer & Co.'s philosophy, "if you can't beat them, copy them."

I think it's closer to "Keep the price down and outsell your competitor because of it."

I think it worked looking at the numbers.

 

[linux2mac]

Halo: Reach Swiped From Microsoft, Leaked to BitTorrent

Halo: Reach Swiped From Microsoft, Leaked to BitTorrent

Read More http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/08/halo-reach-leak/#ixzz0xj03IGQz

According to reports, the modders got it from Microsoft, which had uploaded a build of the game to Xbox Live Marketplace but kept it behind what turned out to be a porous security fence.

Why am I not surprised? That pretty much sums up Microsoft's security, "porous security fence." Since Linux and Mac, I am three years with no exploits. Hmmm, that can't be right because this thread was full of posts by credible resources saying that OSX is not secure.

Just did some more online banking with my iPhone and still not hacked. Dang, how come my iPhone is not being hacked? According to posts here from same credible resources that should be hacked too.

 

[Eidorian]

Halo: Reach Swiped From Microsoft, Leaked to BitTorrent

Read More http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/08/halo-reach-leak/#ixzz0xj03IGQz



Why am I not surprised? That pretty much sums up Microsoft's security, "porous security fence." Since Linux and Mac, I am three years with no exploits. Hmmm, that can't be right because this thread was full of posts by credible resources saying that OSX is not secure.

Just did some more online banking with my iPhone and still not hacked. Dang, how come my iPhone is not being hacked? According to posts here from same credible resources that should be hacked too.

What is the relationship again?

 

[JAT]

BTW I just looked at Office 2010 and it indeed comes with Save As PDF. I guess I should stop complaining about the lack of copy paste on my iPhone now

So does Office 2007, although it may be an add-in that shipped with it. Before that (and still for non-Office apps) we used PrimoPDF, one of several free 3rd-party PDF writers. Works just fine.

The (ahem) beloved Ribbon of Office 2007 still is irritating many users - the only thing that has really happened is that the loud public flames have been internalized to quiet grumbling and simmering discontent.

Ribbon Customizer, $30. I paid for it myself, otherwise I'd probably be in jail for going postal.

Enjoy it. I'd probably be bored to death.

So, you're an IT guy? Want to spend your timing fixing computers?

Not really. This is how most of today's computers work (phones is a different story).

My XP box screws something up every day. Every. Day. Mainly because our software uses many windows or dialog boxes and Windows (after 2 decades) still hasn't figured out how to switch from one app or window to another the same way every time.

My coworker had to restart twice to get network working today. Fairly basic function.

 

[Eidorian]

So, you're an IT guy? Want to spend your timing fixing computers?

If repairing computers is having a hot spare ready to replace a "broken" computer, sure why not.

Otherwise it's bigger money than helpdesk trifles. It's PEBKAC for almost everything else.

 

[JAT]

If repairing computers is having a hot spare ready to replace a "broken" computer, sure why not.

Otherwise it's bigger money than helpdesk trifles. It's PEBKAC for almost everything else.

It's the classic chicken/egg mystery. Did Windows create the IT industry, or did the IT guys make Windows a monopoly to give themselves something to do?

We'll never know....

 

[linux2mac]

My coworker had to restart twice to get network working today. Fairly basic function.

I feel their pain. I don't miss those days at all.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Are you guys still discussing Apple's built in PDF viewer? The one that allowed the iPhone to be hacked as well as OS X?

Um, nice attempt to change the subject. I take it you're saying that Windows does not handle PDFs out of the box.

However, if you want to get into the discussion of which platform is less likely to get hacked, I'm game. Let's look at statements made by Charlie Miller, the former NSA security expert that won the PWN2OWN contests three years in a row.

I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware.

As for his choice of computer:

I usually work on a pretty old MacBook that I've upgraded the hard drive on. Its been the computer that I had both times at Pwn2Own and its been in many countries with me like Korea, Japan, Australia, Malaysia, and of course, Canada. Hardware-wise, it’s pretty much stock--1.83 GHz Core Duo, 2 GB RAM. When I'm at home, I hook it up to a big 24" monitor. As for the winning notebooks, I only use my MacBook Air from last year when I’m doing a big fuzzing run or testing something. I don’t know what I’ll do with my new MacBook Pro, but I definitely won’t retire my trusty MacBook.

 

[-hh]

My XP box screws something up every day. Every. Day. Mainly because our software uses many windows or dialog boxes and Windows (after 2 decades) still hasn't figured out how to switch from one app or window to another the same way every time.

In defense of Microsoft, XP is fairly old, and has been proposed by Microsoft to be superceded by Vista and then also Win7 ... however, since roughly 68% of the installed Windows User Base is still nevertheless running XP, the marketplace has voted with their wallet (and/or distrust of Microsoft), so while XP is old, its still widespread, which means that it still isn't yet an abandoned-into-being-irrelevant product that would merit getting a free pass on its shortcomings.

It also doesn't do MS much good to have these OS replacements when their relatively huge Enterprise customer base has effectively remained on the sidelines for adoption of a newer OS.

YMMV, but IMO, it would appear that XP satisifies their 'Good Enough' criterion, while also being the "Devil You Know": in general, Enterprise is understandably wary and shy of deferable expenses whose adoption may include an unknown sized bag of downside risk of widespread disruption.

My coworker had to restart twice to get network working today. Fairly basic function.

I'm often un/replugging my USB mouse on XP due to some mystery or another that comes and goes...perhaps we should blame it on this apparently ancient and creaky 2.7 year old (January 2008) hardware & OS install?


-hh

 

[linux2mac]

Um, nice attempt to change the subject. I take it you're saying that Windows does not handle PDFs out of the box.

However, if you want to get into the discussion of which platform is less likely to get hacked, I'm game. Let's look at statements made by Charlie Miller, the former NSA security expert that won the PWN2OWN contests three years in a row.

I'd still recommend Macs for typical users as the odds of something targeting them are so low that they might go years without seeing any malware.

As for his choice of computer:

I usually work on a pretty old MacBook that I've upgraded the hard drive on. Its been the computer that I had both times at Pwn2Own and its been in many countries with me like Korea, Japan, Australia, Malaysia, and of course, Canada. Hardware-wise, it’s pretty much stock--1.83 GHz Core Duo, 2 GB RAM. When I'm at home, I hook it up to a big 24" monitor. As for the winning notebooks, I only use my MacBook Air from last year when I’m doing a big fuzzing run or testing something. I don’t know what I’ll do with my new MacBook Pro, but I definitely won’t retire my trusty MacBook.

Finally a credible source! I like your approach, you actually post facts instead of Photoshopped images of Tiffany & Co bags and plane reservations.

 

[Eidorian]

It's the classic chicken/egg mystery. Did Windows create the IT industry, or did the IT guys make Windows a monopoly to give themselves something to do?

We'll never know....

It seems like this doesn't get old. Maybe it's time to move on.

I can take care of myself at work and that's all that matters. If you're living the fantasy then more power to you.

 

[JAT]

perhaps we should blame it on this apparently ancient and creaky 2.7 year old (January 2008) hardware & OS install?


-hh

Gets updated at least monthly.

It seems like this doesn't get old. Maybe it's time to move on.

I can take care of myself at work and that's all that matters. If you're living the fantasy then more power to you.

Are you kidding??? I want to move on to a fantasy world where the ****ing computer just does what it is supposed to so I can do what I'm supposed to. But my office won't buy Macs.

 

[Eidorian]

Are you kidding??? I want to move on to a fantasy world where the ****ing computer just does what it is supposed to so I can do what I'm supposed to. But my office won't buy Macs.

Sadly there's nothing I can do about that. Windows 7 is on the horizon for us here. Our Core 2 Duo systems with 4 GB of RAM are still overkill for what we do though. There's a huge closet full of Celeron systems and a handful of Core 2 Precision workstations as hot spares with XP imaged on them. It's a drop in replacement if it takes more than 10-15 minutes to diagnose the problem.

Why spend more time when user space is on the network? We still have to remind users not to use the local hard drives for storage though.

We had one Mac but that user was always trouble regardless. I have the notebook now. The new trackpads are rather annoying.

 

[weespeed]

Finally a credible source! I like your approach, you actually post facts instead of Photoshopped images of Tiffany & Co bags and plane reservations.

Read the quote. Basically he's saying a 'typical user'..computer iliterate.. And 'odds of them being targeted are so low'.. meaning not worth a hackers time..

That quote just reaffirmed what a lot of people have said. That Apple computers are really easy to use they are idiot proof and that the numbers of Apple machines aren't worth trying to hack..

That quote didn't even address the issue that safari on a MAC was hacked in record time.

Quote from Charlie Miller taken from an article at ZDnet.com

Why Safari? Why didn’t you go after IE or Safari?

It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows.

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it. With my Safari exploit, I put the code into a process and I know exactly where it’s going to be. There’s no randomization. I know when I jump there, the code is there and I can execute it there. On Windows, the code might show up but I don’t know where it is. Even if I get to the code, it’s not executable. Those are two hurdles that Macs don’t have.

It’s clear that all three browsers (Safari, IE and Firefox) have bugs. Code execution holes everywhere. But that’s only half the equation. The other half is exploiting it. There’s almost no hurdle to jump through on Mac OS X.

On a scale of 1-10, how impressive was the Nils’ sweep of exploiting all three main browsers?

I was surprised. For IE 8, I’d give him a 9 out of 10. For Safari, maybe a 2. It’s just too easy to pop Safari. For Firefox on Windows, I give him a 10. That was the most impressive of the three. It’s really hard to exploit Firefox on Windows.

Now spin that??? What's harder to hack again?????

also an article titled "pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings"

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings/2748

 

[GamecockMac]

Read the quote. Basically he's saying a 'typical user'..computer iliterate..

So you're calling Charlie Miller a "typical user", that he is "computer illiterate"? Maybe you need to read the quote again, because you obviously missed the part where he states that he is a Mac user.

Now spin that??? What's harder to hack again?????

So a dedicated computer security guru is going to decide to use as his personal machine, a computer that is easy to hack? Is that the line of FUD you're going with?

 

[linux2mac]

Quote from Charlie Miller taken from an article at ZDnet.com

Now spin that??? What's harder to hack again?????

also an article titled "pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings"

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-hacker-apple-safari-is-easy-pickings/2748

OMG! I am convinced. I am going back to Windows. Everyone go back to Windows. That post was so persuasive. Apple stores will be closing their doors soon. Everyone its time to go back to a world of rebooting, network conflicts, hourly patching, and ugly machines! I will sell my elegant 27" glossy backlit LED iMac that works better than any Windows machine I have owned from Windows 95 to XP (it's the base level 27" iMac). I will sell my unibody MBP. I will sell my Airports that put my Linksys to shame. I will sell my iPhone and get a Android. I will sell my iPod and get an awesome Zune. Never mind, I will just give away all my new Apple products because Safari can be hacked in record time by a former NSA security expert.

Actually I was just kidding. No one will convince me to ever go back to that horrid experience. I enjoy my machines working without error. I am on Safari right now and I am waiting to be hacked. I am going to do all my online banking on my iPhone and see if that gets hacked too. I am pretty sure it won't.


Uhh, Charlie Miller is a Mac user.

I usually work on a pretty old MacBook that I've upgraded the hard drive on. Its been the computer that I had both times at Pwn2Own and its been in many countries with me like Korea, Japan, Australia, Malaysia, and of course, Canada. Hardware-wise, it’s pretty much stock--1.83 GHz Core Duo, 2 GB RAM. When I'm at home, I hook it up to a big 24" monitor. As for the winning notebooks, I only use my MacBook Air from last year when I’m doing a big fuzzing run or testing something. I don’t know what I’ll do with my new MacBook Pro, but I definitely won’t retire my trusty MacBook.

 

[MacNewsFix]

So you're calling Charlie Miller a "typical user", that he is "computer illiterate"? Maybe you need to read the quote again, because you obviously missed the part where he states that he is a Mac user.

So a dedicated computer security guru is going to decide to use as his personal machine, a computer that is easy to hack? Is that the line of FUD you're going with?

Thank you for saving me the time of having to explain the obvious to some people who just seem unwilling, or perhaps unable, to comprehend. +1 to GamecockMac

Respectfully,
MacNewsFix

 

[linux2mac]

Another +1 here for GamecockMac !

 

[weespeed]

WTH??

Did you read his quotes?? Yes Mac's are easier to use. Just because he knows how to beef up his MAc so it's not so easy to hack doesn't mean the everyday user does or can.

Read the articles and the quotes from the man himself.
I'm far from a windows fan. I'm typing this from my iMac. I just don't like fanboys like you lying and talking FUD..

So you're calling Charlie Miller a "typical user", that he is "computer illiterate"? Maybe you need to read the quote again, because you obviously missed the part where he states that he is a Mac user.



So a dedicated computer security guru is going to decide to use as his personal machine, a computer that is easy to hack? Is that the line of FUD you're going with?

No he said it, he said all those quotes not me.. Tell him he spreading FUD.
The 'dedicated computer security guru' said MACS are easier to hack. I didn't say it. So what FUD is there. The FUD you are saying while trying to take your foot out of your mouth??

 

[GamecockMac]

WTH??

Did you read his quotes?? Yes Mac's are easier to use. Just because he knows how to beef up his MAc so it's not so easy to hack doesn't mean the everyday user does or can.

Why don't you explain to everyone how he "beefs up his Mac"? All we ever hear from you Windoze fanboys is how you can't customize a Mac at all, how they are just toys for people who don't know how to use a computer. But now you're claiming that if you really know what you are doing, you can tinker with a Mac to the point that it is the hands-down machine of choice for a computer security expert?

Keep on spinning and FUD slinging, pal...it's funny to watch.

 

[weespeed]

OMG! I am convinced. I am going back to Windows. Everyone go back to Windows. That post was so persuasive. Apple stores will be closing their doors soon. Everyone its time to go back to a world of rebooting, network conflicts, hourly patching, and ugly machines! I will sell my elegant 27" glossy backlit LED iMac that works better than any Windows machine I have owned from Windows 95 to XP (it's the base level 27" iMac). I will sell my unibody MBP. I will sell my Airports that put my Linksys to shame. I will sell my iPhone and get a Android. I will sell my iPod and get an awesome Zune. Never mind, I will just give away all my new Apple products because Safari can be hacked in record time by a former NSA security expert.

Actually I was just kidding. No one will convince me to ever go back to that horrid experience. I enjoy my machines working without error. I am on Safari right now and I am waiting to be hacked. I am going to do all my online banking on my iPhone and see if that gets hacked too. I am pretty sure it won't.


Uhh, Charlie Miller is a Mac user.

And him using a mac has what to do with what he said??? NOTHING? Fact he said Macs are easier to hack than windows. Nothing more nothing less. Just stop with the BS and FUD all you fanboys say about how secure Macs are. It BS.

Why don't you explain to everyone how he "beefs up his Mac"? All we ever hear from you Windoze fanboys is how you can't customize a Mac at all, how they are just toys for people who don't know how to use a computer. But now you're claiming that if you really know what you are doing, you can tinker with a Mac to the point that it is the hands-down machine of choice for a computer security expert?

Keep on spinning and FUD slinging, pal...it's funny to watch.

Whatever. You can't even acknowledge what was written and said by Charlie Miller. That's all you can do is try and attack the messenger but not the message. Like I said I have nothing against apple. I'm typing this on an iMac and when I get home I'll be doing work on my 17" MBP.

I just hate when fanboys lie and distort the truth about windows. That's all. You still can't acknowledge the truth and just gloss over what I posted.

Charlie Miller workas here. http://securityevaluators.com/
Ask him yourself why he said macs are easier to hack than windows. Then You can ask him yourself why he uses a MAC.

 

[GamecockMac]

Whatever. You can't even acknowledge what was written and said by Charlie Miller. That's all you can do is try and attack the messenger but not the message. Like I said I have nothing against apple. I'm typing this on an iMac and when I get home I'll be doing work on my 17" MBP.

I just hate when fanboys lie and distort the truth about windows. That's all. You still can't acknowledge the truth and just gloss over what I posted.

The truth of what exactly? The guy you are holding up as some kind of master hacker uses a Mac as his own personal machine. That you can't see what kind of statement that makes speaks volumes about your level of intelligence.

The picture you are trying to paint would be like having a master thief buy the most easily crackable safe to store their valuables in. Are you starting to get it yet? Is it sinking in?

Charlie Miller workas here. http://securityevaluators.com/
Ask him yourself why he said macs are easier to hack than windows. Then You can ask him yourself why he uses a MAC.

I don't have to ask him anything, his actions tell me everything I need to know.

 

[MacNewsFix]

The truth of what exactly? The guy you are holding up as some kind of master hacker uses a Mac as his own personal machine. That you can't see what kind of statement that makes speaks volumes about your level of intelligence.

The picture you are trying to paint would be like having a master thief buy the most easily crackable safe to store their valuables in. Are you starting to get it yet? Is it sinking in?

I don't have to ask him anything, his actions tell me everything I need to know.

Maybe he's implying that Charlie Miller is a masochist and likes walking around with a highly vulnerable OS because he's a glutton for punishment? Wait, I know, he's saying Charlie Miller is a fan boy, too! LOL

 

[linux2mac]

I've never lied about how horrid windows is. It just is! Trust me, I am a former Microsoft trained applications developer. I have worked with SQL Server, Windows servers, Windows desktops, .NET technologies and do not ever want to work with anything MS again unless a client really needs it. Does that make me a fanboy because I choose the operating system that just works - OSX?