Microsoft Previews Windows 8 for Tablets and PCs

[NAG]

The Xbox was a risk. Kinect was a risk. Leaving Windows Mobile 6.5 behind was a risk. The lack of WP7 sales so far have nothing to do with Metro. The rest i cant be bothered to respond to. Its mainly the same empty rhetoric you post all the time.

Whoa whoa. The Kinect was a risk? The Kinect came after the massive monetary success that was the Wii. I'll give them credit that they just didn't blatantly copy like Sony did with Move. But it was hardly a risk.

I'll give you the Xbox being a risk. I'm still not exactly sure why they went into the game console market, actually.

Leaving behind Windows Mobile wasn't exactly a risk. Windows Mobile 6.5 kept getting delayed and it was becoming more and more apparent that Windows Mobile was a dog compared to iOS and Android (especially with Android eloping with all the OEMs).

Microsoft either does not have the vision to see the future or they are so insanely slow that by the time their plans come to fruition the future happened years ago.

 

[aristotle]

re original article - "metro" interface

"metro" as in - metrosexual?

No, it is metro as in copying the style of street signs and metro station signs, especially from countries like Germany.

If it was the other kind of metro then it would be more stylish.

 

[*LTD*]

The Xbox was a risk. Kinect was a risk.

They've been good in gaming. Which has translated into a whole lot of nothing elsewhere.

Leaving Windows Mobile 6.5 behind was a risk.

it was a necessity. It was a destroyed, dead platform. Apple killed it the very day the iPhone was announced. A decade of mobile development, gone right dan the drain. And MS was in denial the entire time.

In fact, Apple either killed or re-framed everyone's ideas when it came to mobile. So MS wasn't alone, if that's any consolation.

The lack of WP7 sales so far have nothing to do with Metro.

Metro is just one of the pieces in this sad puzzle. Or it could be aliens. I bet MS is going with the aliens idea.

The rest i cant be bothered to respond to.

Because there really is no response to it. It's reality. Something MS can't quite come to terms with.

 

[Flitzy]

So all those good reviews of the preview so far must mean its going to flop?

Sigh...this forum.

EDIT: unless you are referring only to the hardware?

Even then, no tech blogs were making a huge deal of a fan...this even was about the software.

Just because some idiot with a tech blog says something is good doesn't make it true.

 

[brdeveloper]

Because it requires the development of 2 entirely different applications, which is (of course) a lot of work. You can't just make a few tweaks and make an application like Photoshop touch-based. You'd basically have to start from the scratch.
Those 2 versions of an application would probably be never run together on one machine.

Maybe Photoshop will need a patch to support multi-touch. A single finger is equivalent to a mouse pointer, although one would prefer continuing to use a mouse. Ok, that's good we'll have more input options.

If you have a touch-based computer, you'll use touch applications. If you have a mouse-based computer, you'll use the existing interface.

Wrong. If it was true, OSX would be very unsuccessful as it supports old one-button mouses, magic mouses and the multi-gesture trackpad.

 

[Oletros]

Just because some idiot with a tech blog says something is good doesn't make it true.

And the contrary

 

[ct2k7]

To those asking how much it costs,

I'd going to throw this in - from the video, I think Sinofsky and his team were using Visual Studio Express, a free version of the popular IDE. This would indicate that there are smaller costs involved, for now at least.

 

[*LTD*]

The very fact that there's a fan involved should be your first clue that something isn't quite right with MS' conception of tablet computing.

 

[NAG]

Metro is just one of the pieces in this sad puzzle. Or it could be aliens. I bet MS is going with the aliens idea.

You have to at least give them credit for trying with Metro. Microsoft just seems to see the problem incorrectly. Their ads are a great indication of this. They advertise how you can use the Windows Phone 7 UI quickly and don't have to spend a lot of time on your phone because they mistakenly believe that people are spending lots of time on their phones because they're hard to use instead of people spending time on their phones because the enjoy it (maybe this is projection from how Windows Mobile was a maze of convoluted menus).

 

[Dr McKay]

They've been good in gaming. Which has translated into a whole lot of nothing elsewhere.

Yet Windows 7 not only drove Microsoft to announce repeated record profits, it also received glowing reviews.

Do you ever listen to yourself speak? Or do you find that you drift in and out?

The very fact that there's a fan involved should be your first clue that something isn't quite right with MS' conception of tablet computing.

That was Samsungs tablet envision for Windows 8, by finding 1 bad example involving a fan you use that one view to look at this "bigger picture" you always mention when people criticize Apple.

Do I need to drag out the Quad-Core ARM Tablet running Windows 8, (No Fans)

 

[NAG]

Wrong. If it was true, OSX would be very unsuccessful as it supports old one-button mouses, magic mouses and the multi-gesture trackpad.

I'm not sure you understand the problem that is pixel accuracy with touch devices. Gestures ≠ touch interface.

 

[*LTD*]

You have to at least give them credit for trying with Metro. Microsoft just seems to see the problem incorrectly. Their ads are a great indication of this. They advertise how you can use the Windows Phone 7 UI quickly and don't have to spend a lot of time on your phone because they mistakenly believe that people are spending lots of time on their phones because they're hard to use instead of people spending time on their phones because the enjoy it (maybe this is projection from how Windows Mobile was a maze of convoluted menus).

It was MS' attempt to divert attention from App-Lack.™ As with many things they attempt, however, it was a little too late and a little too transparent to be taken seriously by anyone.

They couldn't have *really* thought that people were spending lots of time using their iPhones because they're hard to use. LOL did they? Somehow it wouldn't surprise me.

So what does MD do, they advertise directly against reality, and predictably, have been getting results accordingly.

 

[AAPLaday]

Whoa whoa. The Kinect was a risk? The Kinect came after the massive monetary success that was the Wii. I'll give them credit that they just didn't blatantly copy like Sony did with Move. But it was hardly a risk.

I'll give you the Xbox being a risk. I'm still not exactly sure why they went into the game console market, actually.

Leaving behind Windows Mobile wasn't exactly a risk. Windows Mobile 6.5 kept getting delayed and it was becoming more and more apparent that Windows Mobile was a dog compared to iOS and Android (especially with Android eloping with all the OEMs).

Microsoft either does not have the vision to see the future or they are so insanely slow that by the time their plans come to fruition the future happened years ago.

WP7 completely changed the game from 6.5. No gentle updates to slowly push through a new agenda, it was all gone in one fell swoop. It was a massive risk. People on 6.5 couldn't just buy a WP7 and use the old apps. It was starting again fresh. Risking alienating your entire mobile market in one update. Id call that a big risk. They could have just tried to update it but they went with a whole new approach.

 

[NAG]

It was MS' attempt to divert attention from App-Lack.™

They couldn't have *really* thought that people were spending lots of time using their iPhones because they're hard to use. LOL did they? Somehow it wouldn't surprise me.

So what does MD do, they advertise directly against reality, and predictably, have been getting results accordingly.

They had an entire blog post about how cool the Windows 8 Explorer ribbon is because the button area matched how often people used those functions. I really would not be surprised if they were that disconnected from reality that they think people hate using phones.

WP7 completely changed the game from 6.5. No gentle updates to slowly push through a new agenda, it was all gone in one fell swoop. It was a massive risk. People on 6.5 couldn't just buy a WP7 and use the old apps. It was starting again fresh. Risking alienating your entire mobile market in one update. Id call that a big risk. They could have just tried to update it but they went with a whole new approach.

That would mean something if there was a Windows Mobile market at the time. Look at the marketshare numbers. Everyone either left Windows Mobile before 6.5 or they were in the process of leaving. There was very little risk in rebooting their mobile market compared to not.

 

[Arran]

You have to at least give them credit for trying with Metro. Microsoft just seems to see the problem incorrectly. Their ads are a great indication of this. They advertise how you can use the Windows Phone 7 UI quickly and don't have to spend a lot of time on your phone because they mistakenly believe that people are spending lots of time on their phones because they're hard to use instead of people spending time on their phones because the enjoy it (maybe this is projection from how Windows Mobile was a maze of convoluted menus).

Interesting thought.

 

[Sensamic]

As I watch my 2 year old son pick up the iPad and he begins to use it within minutes and understand its UI I know deep inside all he really needs is multitasking. When he looks to me and smiles I know that really means he wants to download a youTube video as he plays a strategy game on the device. And when he giggles he really means that he needs more RAM to complete those complex tasks that tablet users need. You know like downloading "stuff" from the internet.

Heaven help me! Is this how far we've come? Download youtube clips - in the background? If you want to be productive you don't download "stuff" and you don't stream youtube in the background.

When people speak of multitasking on iOS devices all I ever here the reason why is so they can't watch a video at the same time as working on a spreadsheet! - yes thats what all power intensve users do!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??????????????????? So iPads are only for 2 year old babys?????????????????? So because of this the rest of the world don't need true multitasking????? Is your argument serious?????????????

 

[brdeveloper]

I'm not sure you understand the problem that is pixel accuracy with touch devices. Gestures ≠ touch interface.

I understand. Someone would rarely need to make Photoshop editing when not at his desk, and there he would probably have a mouse. Also, he could use a stylus pen or drawing imprecisely in the touch screen if he prefer. You have one more input option and this is not a conflict, it's an improvement.

Maybe you're talking about mouse-related UI stuff like scrollbars. You can continue with scroll bars on legacy applications. You could scroll the bar with your finger.

 

[*LTD*]

WP7 completely changed the game from 6.5.

Which isn't actually saying much. They arrived late to the game with something that might have been impressive (at the time) two years prior. MS changed nothing, just introduced redundancy and quite potentially the final nail in Nokia's smartphone coffin.

No gentle updates to slowly push through a new agenda, it was all gone in one fell swoop. It was a massive risk. People on 6.5 couldn't just buy a WP7 and use the old apps. It was starting again fresh. Risking alienating your entire mobile market in one update. Id call that a big risk.

Their mobile market was already long gone.

They could have just tried to update it but they went with a whole new approach.

. . . about three years too late, when Android and Apple have already eaten MS' lunch.

MS' only really hope in the smartphone segment is that Google's Moto purchase alienates enough of their partners that they move to WP7. Then, of course, there's MS' Nokia partnership which still spells sloppy-seconds for other manufacturers.

Ironically, but attempting to go with the Apple strategy (halfway, anyway) of vertical integration, the also-rans are just introducing more fragmentation into the market by potentially driving away other manufacturers to some other OS. There have been rumblings that HTC is contemplating an OS purchase. Yikes! Seems they want to play in the Apple orchard, without really understanding Apples.

The moves MS is attempting to make right now should have been put into play ages ago. Now it looks like it's all being rendered moot.

 

[AngerDanger]

Lipstick on a pig.

No, it's lipstick on a moderately hot girl.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

re original article - "metro" interface

"metro" as in - metrosexual?

Yes. and like Sexual as in sexual assault.

Read this.

 

[AAPLaday]

That would mean something if there was a Windows Mobile market at the time. Look at the marketshare numbers. Everyone either left Windows Mobile before 6.5 or they were in the process of leaving. There was very little risk in rebooting their mobile market compared to not.

It never sold well to consumers so when a consumer smartphone was released it was never going to compete on sales. It could still things that rivals couldn't at the time though. It was in reality just too much for a phone. Too fiddly for most non business users.

MS' only really hope in the smartphone segment is that Google's Moto purchase alienates enough of their partners that they move to WP7. Then, of course, there's MS' Nokia partnership which still spells sloppy-seconds for other manufacturers.

Ironically, but attempting to go with the Apple strategy (halfway, anyway) of vertical integration, the also-rans are just introducing more fragmentation into the market by potentially driving away other manufacturers to some other OS. There have been rumblings that HTC is contemplating an OS purchase. Yikes! Seems they want to play in the Apple orchard, without really understanding Apples.

The moves MS is attempting to make right now should have been put into play ages ago. Now it looks like it's all being rendered moot.

WP7 will be fine. It was just late to the game thats all. The very first version of it was faster and more responsive than Android (after all its updates). Metro will be across the whole windows live suite including hotmail and Xbox. And Windows 8 apps can run on Windows PHone. All it takes is 1 line of code change i believe. Great idea.

 

[NAG]

I understand. Someone would rarely need to make Photoshop editing when not at his desk, and there he would probably have a mouse.

So why even bother putting it on a tablet?

Also, he could use a stylus pen or drawing imprecisely in the touch screen if he prefer. You have one more input option and this is not a conflict, it's an improvement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt these tablets have the necessary hardware to make drawing with a stylus work better than a wacom tablet.

Maybe you're talking about mouse-related UI stuff like scrollbars. You can continue with scroll bars on legacy applications. You could scroll the bar with your finger.

No, scrolling is not the problem as people rarely use the UI interface elements to scroll (they instead either use gestures or dedicated hardware such as scroll wheels). I'm talking about things like the close window button or menus (notice how they don't do any of that stuff during the demo videos). The Aero UI just does not have enough space to make up for the loss of pixel accuracy in a touch interface. And a touch interface wastes a huge amount of space in a mouse driven interface. They're two completely different metaphors for interacting with a computer that do not mesh. Morphing back and forth capriciously like Windows 8 will only confuse the heck out of the user.

It never sold well to consumers so when a consumer smartphone was released it was never going to compete on sales. It could still things that rivals couldn't at the time though. It was in reality just too much for a phone.

Examples?

 

[iEvolution]

Interesting, the problem like others have stated is the fact people are going to have to switch between two interfaces constantly.

The big factor of whether or not Windows 8 succeeds is how 3rd party developers respond, if they decide to develop for this new interface.

Quite frankly I think this whole tablet business is fad much like the iPods ended up being. I think there is room for them in retail or in businesses where its more feasible to carry a tablet for direct customer to business association but really beyond that the desktop PCs and Macs aren't going anywhere.

I just love the hype surrounding them like they are going to replace computers, get real. Just because the sales are through the roof and computer sales aren't advancing much doesn't mean its replacing the computer.

Computers have been around 40 years of course they aren't going to be as hot as tablets that is because everyone has one already where as the tablet is just barely taking off, is fresh and new and is lead by one of the best hyping companies ever, Apple.

 

[435713]

Quite frankly I think this whole tablet business is fad much like the iPods ended up being. I think there is room for them in retail or in businesses where its more feasible to carry a tablet for direct customer to business association but really beyond that the desktop PCs and Macs aren't going anywhere.

Agreed. I think tablets basically have to shape in form similar to a laptop anyway. As they evolve, they will evolve into something that exists already today. Like the Wii for myself. Fun for a month then wanted no part of it.

 

[NAG]

Yeah, I mean I'm totally squirting with my Zune now because the iPod was a complete fad!