Microsoft Previews Windows 8 for Tablets and PCs

[*LTD*]

is that just me who thinks that Windows 8 interface is horrific?

Windows Tablets ... unless they will be $100 they wont beat apple, just look at webOS it was great ... but where is it right now?

Microsoft has a lot of money, but they dont really have a great strategy. Unlike Apple microsoft dont learn on it's mistakes and keep doing the same thing all over again and again.

Doing the same things but expecting a different result each time. The definition of insanity.

Like I said, the Windows 8 interface looks like a set of compromises, and MS is trying all they can (like with Metro on WP7) to make those obvious compromises seem like advantages. Which at this point is a rather transparent strategy that clearly isn't working in key areas in which MS desperately needs traction.

 

[gnasher729]

The amount of Windows bashers is unbelievable on this board. Seriously, grow up, take some distance of your Mac vs Windows world and appreciate technology. Shees.

Considering that this site is MacRumors, the number is actually quite low. And we do appreciate technology, that's why we buy Macs

 

[Dr McKay]

Doing the same things but expecting a different result each time. The definition of insanity.

Like I said, the Windows 8 interface looks like a set of compromises, and MS is trying all they can (like with Metro on WP7) to make those obvious compromises seem like advantages. Which at this point is a rather transparent strategy that clearly isn't working in key areas in which MS desperately needs traction.

Can you point out any these "Compromises" that we will be forced to put up with?

 

[Speedy2]

Convergence is the future.

We've heard the convergence mantra for two decades now. The computer will take over all tasks and rule the home. Except that this never happened, but quite the opposite. All the other devices got smart and usable, and the classic computer is actually losing market share rapidly. The world's biggest computer manufacturer just decided to sell itself.

People are so fed up with the idea of this super-complex, hard-to-maintain machine that tries to do everything but in the end fails to do anything really well.

Why do you think people are going crazy for "extra" computers in their homes like smartphones, gaming consoles and now tablets? Because they do exactly what people want, and they don't bother them with registries, DLL and EXE files, uninstallation problems, drivers and so on.

And from the other point of view: how exactly are you going to do serious work with a tablet computer? It's a mobile device with a small screen, a weak CPU and limited space for files, and it will stay that way for quite a while. If you want to dock this thing and expect a powerful work computer, you need a docking station with a bigger screen and a good CPU. In other words, another computer.
If you're worried about copying around your data, use a centralized storage space, like a NAS or the cloud, depending on your needs. Corporations have been doing this for decades.

 

[brdeveloper]

I believe they looked at the middle ground here. They couldn't alienate 450 million potential customers with a brand new UI. They needed to include the old UI as well, but as touch computing matures, I expect that by Windows 10 or 11, The UI will fade away, just as I think that the next few versions of Mac OS will do the same.

The risk here was introducing this new UI for standard PC's and laptops, replacing the start menu with it. Customer reaction on this we'll have to see, but based upon customer satisfaction on WP7, I think they'll be alright.

Ubuntu at the login prompt has an option to choose either a netbook desktop or a standard taskbar. Is pretty easy to give user the option to choose any of UIs. Also, switching UI modes could be activated automatically by accelerometer or detecting any input devices attached.

 

[wescravn]

lion lasted 2 weeks on my 4 month old 21" imac.
Daily grey screens of death were pissing me off.
Simply browsing the internet should not crash the entire os.

lies! Windows 7 barely runs.

 

[*LTD*]

The Dodge Caravan had record sales also....doesn't mean it wasn't crap.

MS/PC record sales happen for one reason. Apple record sales happen for entirely different reasons.

Sales figures alone don't tell the whole story.

It depends on what's behind the numbers.

Sales figures - the rhyme and reason for them, are an entirely different beast when it comes to MS, and likewise, an entirely different beast when it comes to Apple. They aren't the same company, nor are their strategies the same.

To examine sales figures divorced from their strategic and market context is a waste of time and will lead you to false conclusions (like what you're doing now.)

Apple gear sells for one set of reasons. MS for another.

Not all sales figures are created equal. Understand what's behind them.

lies!

No, just an anecdote that has no basis in reality. It happened to *him*, that's true, but unless it registers in the big picture (by there being lots and lots more like him) that's where it begins and ends: with him.

 

[macsmurf]

Doing the same things but expecting a different result each time. The definition of insanity.

Like I said, the Windows 8 interface looks like a set of compromises, and MS is trying all they can (like with Metro on WP7) to make those obvious compromises seem like advantages. Which at this point is a rather transparent strategy that clearly isn't working in key areas in which MS desperately needs traction.

Again, why compromise? Why not make two equally valid GUIs depending on the input method and allow the user to run either?

 

[Dr McKay]

MS/PC record sales happen for one reason. Apple record sales happen for entirely different reasons.

Sales figures alone don't tell the whole story.

It depends on what's behind the numbers.

Sales figures - the rhyme and reason for them, are an entirely different beast when it comes to MS, and likewise, an entirely different beast when it comes to Apple. They aren't the same company, nor are their strategies the same.

So, despite the record numbers, bringing in Microsoft Record profit repeatedly, and overwhelmingly positive reviews people only use Windows 7 because they are forced to? And it's garbage?

 

[wescravn]

MS/PC record sales happen for one reason. Apple record sales happen for entirely different reasons.

Sales figures alone don't tell the whole story.

It depends on what's behind the numbers.

Sales figures - the rhyme and reason for them, are an entirely different beast when it comes to MS, and likewise, an entirely different beast when it comes to Apple. They aren't the same company, nor are their strategies the same.

To examine sales figures divorced from their strategic and market context is a waste of time and will lead you to false conclusions (like what you're doing now.)

Apple gear sells for one set of reasons. MS for another.

Not all sales figures are created equal. Understand what's behind them.

If Apple put a STRANGLEHOLD on the business market, they'd sell millions of copies of Lion, but don't. Microsoft forces you to buy their crappy os.

We need OBAMA to regulate the computer industry!

 

[NAG]

I believe they looked at the middle ground here. They couldn't alienate 450 million potential customers with a brand new UI. They needed to include the old UI as well, but as touch computing matures, I expect that by Windows 10 or 11, The UI will fade away, just as I think that the next few versions of Mac OS will do the same.

The risk here was introducing this new UI for standard PC's and laptops, replacing the start menu with it. Customer reaction on this we'll have to see, but based upon customer satisfaction on WP7, I think they'll be alright.

So they gave us the cleanliness of a dog and the loyalty of a cat.

I'm calling BS on alienating people by changing the UI. People didn't hate Vista because of the changes in the UI. They hated it because the UAC was clingy and their printers stopped working. People hate the ribbon because it was designed by committee and is a cobbled together mess, not because it is new.

If people really hated new ways to interact with their computer the iPhone wouldn't have taken off and everyone would be complaining about Lion's Mission Control interface. People need to learn that Microsoft is the exception, not the rule. Just because they're horrible at making new things doesn't mean that everyone else is.

As far as my impression of Windows 8 so far (from the This Is My Next video). It looks like you can flip the application launcher screen back and forth with ease (there are some understandable bugs/lag) and that you'll end up in the standard, non-tablet friendly interface 90% of the time (and we know the Aero interface is horrible on tablets because they failed in the mass market for the last decade). This begs the question, why is this being put on tablets when the new interface is a thin facade? This would be like if Apple slapped OS X on the iPad and supped up Dashboard and called it a night.

Microsoft needs to stop with this fascination with Windows. Why is Windows Phone 7 called Windows? Why don't they just call it Metro or whatever. This would leave them the freedom to cut the baggage that is holding them back. And it is holding them back. Windows Phone 7 is a nonstarter even though it has some very good ideas and isn't a complete iPhone knockoff unlike Android. They have the goose that might lay some golden eggs but they've decided to gut it and give it to Windows to wear as a hat. Being used like this will only damage Metro in the long run.

 

[rjohnstone]

lies! Windows 7 barely runs.

More lies... Windows 7 runs great.
Not a single stop error or BSOD since day 1.

Snow Leopard was pretty awesome too.
Lion is a turd plain and simple.

 

[Kissaragi]

Is wescraven always like this? Puts me off watching scream ever again..

 

[Certinfy]

lies! Windows 7 barely runs.

And you're accusing someone of lying? Haha.

 

[Speedy2]

But they have a choice to switch to the classic desktop or just keep things as it is. Either way, businesses & corporations will not be put off, especially as Windows 8 is far more efficient than the already efficient Windows 7.

Everyone wins!

There is no start menu, and there's no option to switch off Metro completely, nor are there any plans to offer such an option. We'll see about that when they'll get their feedback I guess...

Most big companies are in the middle of transitioning to Windows 7 right now and they will be shying away from retraining their entire workforce again for the new interface for at least 5 years.

 

[wescravn]

More lies... Windows 7 runs great.
Not a single stop error or BSOD since day 1.

Snow Leopard was pretty awesome too.
Lion is a turd plain and simple.

What makes you an authority? I've worked in the IT industry for 17+ years. I have 0 problems with Lion. Windows 7 is the same as every other version. Patch it till you get till SP3, and it might work! After downloading 180+ security updates, and 60 critical updates.

 

[AAPLaday]

If Apple put a STRANGLEHOLD on the business market, they'd sell millions of copies of Lion, but don't. Microsoft forces you to buy their crappy os.

We need OBAMA to regulate the computer industry!

To quote yourself from another thread

The one thing I've learned in life is this:

#1) People are naturally haters
#2) They will always try to bring you down, when your successful
#3) They're always jealous of what you have.

Well thats more than one thing, but back to the point. You should listen to yourself more often.

 

[*LTD*]

Microsoft needs to stop with this fascination with Windows. Why is Windows Phone 7 called Windows? Why don't they just call it Metro or whatever. This would leave them the freedom to cut the baggage that is holding them back. And it is holding them back. Windows Phone 7 is a nonstarter even though it has some very good ideas and isn't a complete iPhone knockoff unlike Android. They have the goose that might lay some golden eggs but they've decided to gut it and give it to Windows to wear as a hat. Being used like this will only damage Metro in the long run.

The brand is played out, tired, and has lost any cachet it once had (did it ever?). It's also killing their efforts in markets that actually matter for the next 5-10 years.

MS does not take risks. That is the problem. Those who do, like Apple, have ended up redefining and revolutionizing entire markets, to the effect that (among other things) MS is now in their rear-view and has been playing catch-up for years, constantly arriving late to the game. This might have been fine a decade ago, but in these new market realities post-iPhone (and certainly post-iPad), acting like Apple's (Google's?) slow cousin doesn't quite help.

Metro, for example, has existed and has been available to consumers since 2006, and in a bigger way since October 2010. Consumers didn't and don't care about it enough to generate any kind of appreciable return for MS.

Let's call a spade a spade: MS is basing the Windows 8 UI on an interface that is a total market failure, and which currently is doing absolutely nothing to help pitifully low WP7 sales.

Anything and everything Zune and Zune-related (e.g., Metro) has not translated into anything meaningful for MS - either in terms of share or in terms of profit.

So what's MS' answer? What is their grand strategy? Bring it to tablets and PCs.

It seems they're hoping that, regardless of anything, their Windows universal-licensing model will make Metro successful because eventually, if you want to get a $400 PC, you'll have to live with Metro by default.

This strategy will be (to put it softly) "interesting" to see in action.

 

[The Phazer]

The brand is played out, tired, and has lost any cachet it once had (did it ever?). It's also killing their efforts in markets that actually matter for the next 5-10 years.

MS does not take risks. That is the problem. Those who do, like Apple, have ended up redefining and revolutionizing entire markets, to the effect that (among other things) MS is now in their rear-view and has been playing catch-up for years, constantly arriving late to the game. This might have been fine a decade ago, but in these new market realities post-iPhone (and certainly post-iPad), acting like Apple's (Google's?) slow cousin doesn't quite help.

Of course Microsoft takes risks. As does Apple.

And both companies sometimes royally **** those risks up. MS did with UAC in Vista. It was a panicked risk to fix security that was a disaster.

Apple has taken similar risks with the file system in Lion and has also created a disaster.

Phazer

 

[NAG]

The brand is played out, tired, and has lost any cachet it once had (did it ever?). It's also killing their efforts in markets that actually matter for the next 5-10 years.

MS does not take risks. That is the problem. Those who do, like Apple, have ended up redefining and revolutionizing entire markets, to the effect that (among other things) MS is now in their rear-view and has been playing catch-up for years, constantly arriving late to the game. This might have been fine a decade ago, but in these new market realities post-iPhone (and certainly post-iPad), acting like Apple's (Google's?) slow cousin doesn't quite help.

Microsoft's schtick was, for the most part, be slow and make cheap knockoffs that run on commodity hardware (as far as products, they have done some nice tech). That isn't working so far in the mobile market for them because Google is "cheaper" on phones and currently Apple has the entire tablet market tied up because no one has figured out how to make a tablet you can give away for free with a haircut.

The question is, can Microsoft hold on long enough for them to be able to effectively copy and undercut without completely destroying their brand.

Edit: Phazer, the UAC was not a risk. I'll maybe give you panicked. Probably not well thought out is the better term. Not putting in the UAC would have been more of a risk because the security disaster that was XP would have continued. A risk in Vista would have been to remove the registry. They back out on that (along with every other major change).

 

[Speedy2]

I believe that the point is not to combine them but to make an OS that can be used either with touch or with mouse/keyboard.

iPads support keyboards, even though only very few people use them.

The problem is not the keyboard, it's the mouse.
If you've ever developed applications for iOS/Android and desktops you'll know what I mean. They have nothing in common except their most basic views. It simply doesn't make sense to mix the two paradigms on one OS, since you'll need two distinct sets of applications. Just like it doesn't make sense to install the current Windows on an iPad, you wouldn't want to connect a mouse to any tablet.

Also the form factor. Tablets have to be small and light, whereas you'd want a big screen for your desktop applications, and probably more storage space and a faster CPU.

 

[brdeveloper]

Why do you think people are going crazy for "extra" computers in their homes like smartphones, gaming consoles and now tablets? Because they do exactly what people want, and they don't bother them with registries, DLL and EXE files, uninstallation problems, drivers and so on.

Because they have money to spend and want to be seduced by a new gadget. Look at my signature... in Brazil, I'm a kind of an extreme geek as most people barely have a desktop PC.

If you could produce a single device with different "projections" of your system (workstation mode, mobile mode, entertainment mode) you could achieve the all-in-one dream. Also, add a single thunderbolt-like port to the device and it could be connected to external monitors, TVs, external hard disks and so on. You could have a thunderbolt dock at work and a thunderbolt-to-hdmi adapter at home.

And from the other point of view: how exactly are you going to do serious work with a tablet computer? It's a mobile device with a small screen, a weak CPU and limited space for files, and it will stay that way for quite a while. If you want to dock this thing and expect a powerful work computer, you need a docking station with a bigger screen and a good CPU. In other words, another computer.

A BT keyboard and a mouse or touchpad would be enough for most uses. A mini-HDMI port would do the rest. Wi-fi storage (or cloud storage) as backup units... what more? Film scanners? Ok, in such a professional application you would need some kind of hook as a TBolt dock.

About processing power, I bet a simple integrated 3d gpu, a quad-core ARM, 2 or 4 gigs of ram and a good SSD would give enough processing power for most applications. Of course, you would always have the option to buy a Mac Pro for extreme processing, but not a tablet, a netbook, a smartphone, a laptop. Power eficciency probably would be worse than iPad, but better than an Atom Netbook.

If you're worried about copying around your data, use a centralized storage space, like a NAS or the cloud, depending on your needs. Corporations have been doing this for decades.

I agree. Cloud would fit well in the all-in-one model. A single processing unit, a single central storage.

 

[AAPLaday]

The brand is played out, tired, and has lost any cachet it once had (did it ever?). It's also killing their efforts in markets that actually matter for the next 5-10 years.

MS does not take risks. That is the problem. Those who do, like Apple, have ended up redefining and revolutionizing entire markets, to the effect that (among other things) MS is now in their rear-view and has been playing catch-up for years, constantly arriving late to the game. This might have been fine a decade ago, but in these new market realities post-iPhone (and certainly post-iPad), acting like Apple's (Google's?) slow cousin doesn't quite help.

Metro, for example, has existed and has been available to consumers since 2006, and in a bigger way since October 2010. Consumers didn't and don't care about it enough to generate any kind of appreciable return for MS.

Let's call a spade a spade: MS is basing the Windows 8 UI on an interface that is a total market failure, and which currently is doing absolutely nothing to help pitifully low WP7 sales.

Anything and everything Zune and Zune-related (e.g., Metro) has not translated into anything meaningful for MS - either in terms of share or in terms of profit.

So what's MS' answer? What is their grand strategy? Bring it to tablets and PCs.

It seems they're hoping that, regardless of anything, their Windows universal-licensing model will make Metro successful because eventually, if you want to get a $400 PC, you'll have to live with Metro by default.

This strategy will be (to put it softly) "interesting" to see in action.

The Xbox was a risk. Kinect was a risk. Leaving Windows Mobile 6.5 behind was a risk. The lack of WP7 sales so far have nothing to do with Metro. The rest i cant be bothered to respond to. Its mainly the same empty rhetoric you post all the time.

 

[nylonsteel]

re original article - "metro" interface

"metro" as in - metrosexual?

 

[Speedy2]

Again, why compromise? Why not make two equally valid GUIs depending on the input method and allow the user to run either?

Because it requires the development of 2 entirely different applications, which is (of course) a lot of work. You can't just make a few tweaks and make an application like Photoshop touch-based. You'd basically have to start from the scratch.
Those 2 versions of an application would probably be never run together on one machine. If you have a touch-based computer, you'll use touch applications. If you have a mouse-based computer, you'll use the existing interface.