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Microsoft Releases New Anti-iPad Ad Highlighting Surface Accessories

Black Magic said:
Spinedoc while I like you, again, you are part of the problem. Microsoft doesn't innovate and they actually stifle it. People like you defend them and their behavior which in turn is an attempt to keep us in the dark ages.

Read this: http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/micr...IhateMS_1.html

You try to mask an OS that is overcomplicated and average at best by associating intelligence levels of the the users of different products. In reality, Microsoft makes average products that does some things average to good at best. Apple and Google have great products that do most things great to fantastic at a minimum.

Everyone learned their lesson with Microsoft and have patented everything to avoid the blatant copy techniques MS deploys and rewraps as innovation. Now that MS is struggling to copy like in the past, they are showing their true innovative chops by releasing crap products like Surface, Windows Phone, and Windows 8. Yes, I know you will beat on your chest and go from forum to forum pronouncing your love for all things MS but the fact still remains that consumers have spoken and the products suck. Microsoft's quarterly earnings reflect this. Your mouth and posts do not. Which of the two (MS Quarterly Statements or your posts) are more grounded in reality?
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URL is 404 :(

I don't disagree that MS has some mediocre products, and I definitely don't disagree they make some TERRIBLE decisions. MS could have dominated the smartphone market WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. MS could have dominated the portable music player WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. MS could have dominated the tablet market WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. Even now that MS has a clearly superior product in the windows tablets they managed to yet again... yep you guessed it... fumble that.

But at the end of the day people talk about the Apple ecosystem and all the apps available for it. For people who have used Windows computers for the past 30+ years there is a ridiculously huge ecosystem which dwarfs iOS ecosystem to look like a drop in the ocean. This functionality can be important to some, and to others it wouldn't matter at all. Still, iOS will never be on laptops and desktops so it remains something which you have to carry another device for, a sub branch of an OS, a lesser variant, etc. With a windows tablet at least I can be on a SINGLE ecosystem, carry my tablet, and just dock it at home and I can have my tablet, laptop, and desktop with one device. Once again this is impossible with iOS, you can link me all the keyboards, docks, apps, and whatever for the ipad but you are still just really reaching if you say the ipad can replace your laptop and desktop and frankly I call BS on most people that make this claim.

As for the whole copying thing, this is so hilarious to me. Everyone copies from everyone else. Why do people come on here thinking they are defending Apple's "ethics" by espousing how original they are and how everyone else copies them? I'll tell you what, you "copier" proclaimers would sure make some lousy businessmen, not even Apple would want you.

Win8 and the win8 tablets are not crap, but MS has released and marketed them horribly, shooting themselves in the foot as they are apt to do. It doesn't mean they are horrible products in the least. Just to clarify, and I've made this clear in a thousand other posts, I'm only talking about the Atom tablets. Windows RT is a complete atrocity and utter junk. The surface pro is a niche device made before it's time.

Plus I don't have a love for all things MS, far from it, I like to think of myself as using what I need. I use an Apple iphone for example because it suits my needs. I used a macbook Air for years until the windows tablets came out, because it suited my needs. I used an ipad religiously from when the ipad 1 was released until December of 2012 when Atom tablets came out, because it suited my needs. It's easy to take things out of context, but harder to make salient discussion points which are valid.
 
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spinedoc77 said:
URL is 404 :(

I don't disagree that MS has some mediocre products, and I definitely don't disagree they make some TERRIBLE decisions. MS could have dominated the smartphone market WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. MS could have dominated the portable music player WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. MS could have dominated the tablet market WAY before Apple, but they fumbled it. Even now that MS has a clearly superior product in the windows tablets they managed to yet again... yep you guessed it... fumble that.

But at the end of the day people talk about the Apple ecosystem and all the apps available for it. For people who have used Windows computers for the past 30+ years there is a ridiculously huge ecosystem which dwarfs iOS ecosystem to look like a drop in the ocean. This functionality can be important to some, and to others it wouldn't matter at all. Still, iOS will never be on laptops and desktops so it remains something which you have to carry another device for, a sub branch of an OS, a lesser variant, etc. With a windows tablet at least I can be on a SINGLE ecosystem, carry my tablet, and just dock it at home and I can have my tablet, laptop, and desktop with one device. Once again this is impossible with iOS, you can link me all the keyboards, docks, apps, and whatever for the ipad but you are still just really reaching if you say the ipad can replace your laptop and desktop and frankly I call BS on most people that make this claim.

As for the whole copying thing, this is so hilarious to me. Everyone copies from everyone else. Why do people come on here thinking they are defending Apple's "ethics" by espousing how original they are and how everyone else copies them? I'll tell you what, you "copier" proclaimers would sure make some lousy businessmen, not even Apple would want you.

Win8 and the win8 tablets are not crap, but MS has released and marketed them horribly, shooting themselves in the foot as they are apt to do. It doesn't mean they are horrible products in the least. Plus I don't have a love for all things MS, far from it, I like to think of myself as using what I need. I use an Apple iphone for example because it suits my needs. I used a macbook Air for years until the windows tablets came out, because it suited my needs. It's easy to take things out of context, but harder to make salient discussion points which are valid.
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http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_1.html
 
spinedoc77 said:
Yep, that's why Bill Gates is the richest man in the world and you are sitting here arguing on an internet forum about him. Hehe. ;)
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Come on. Let's stay focused and not go down rabbit holes. Surface, Windows 8, and Windows Phone are horrible (or should I say consumers are not interested) products. Sales figures and market share indicate as much. Spinedoc thinks otherwise. The end?
 
Just because screen size is similar does not mean screens are

Maybe they could have SIRI mention the Surface has a resolution of 1366×768 vs the iPad3 2048×1536. And even help with the math to realize that is roughly 3 times as many pixels on an iPad.

You get what you pay for, if you are willing to make more than a casual comparison.
 
Black Magic said:
Come on. Let's stay focused and not go down rabbit holes. Surface, Windows 8, and Windows Phone are horrible (or should I say consumers are not interested) products. Sales figures and market share indicate as much. Spinedoc thinks otherwise. The end?
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The Surface (not RT) is an excellent idea that needs a more touch-centric OS. Having both a touch UI and the desktop isn't doing the machine any favors.

Windows 8 is as solid an OS as you can ask for. It's fast, runs light on resources, and is perfectly stable (yes, it really is). The problem with it is MS' bad decision to try and make an OS that contains both a touch based UI and the traditional desktop. The idea was for people to switch between the two depending on how you intend on using your device. As long as you're using one or the other, you're fine. But using both together muddies up things, and makes it harder to use than it should be.

It's a good idea badly implemented.

Windows Phone? Like I said earlier (I think it was this thread), it's been growing slowly and steadily since it's introduction a couple years back.

And to repeat myself yet again, anyone who says that sales are an indication of quality needs to smack themselves upside the head. Bad products sometimes sell well. Good products sometimes go tragically ignored. The buying public is a fickle beast. You never know which way they'll go.

It's the last thing a long time Apple fan should say, because...well...Macs never did sell all that well in the past, did they? Certainly you wouldn't consider the fact they only sold a fraction as much as Wintel PCs to be an indicator of their quality, would you?
 
Black Magic said:
Come on. Let's stay focused and not go down rabbit holes. Surface, Windows 8, and Windows Phone are horrible (or should I say consumers are not interested) products. Sales figures and market share indicate as much. Spinedoc thinks otherwise. The end?
Click to expand...

Nope, see you didn't take the time to read what I was saying. Just because MS royally screwed up their release doesn't make them bad products, it just makes MS a bad company with a bad strategy. I get the impression that you think I'm defending MS, I could care less and I'd hate to be one of those stupid sounding people who do nothing but defend a company whos product they buy, but otherwise have absolutely no vested interest in, as if they were the CEO of said company.

I agree consumers are not interested.
Windows RT: Cannot out ipad the ipad, lack of ecosystem, apps and confuses/splits your user base.

Atom powered Windows tablets: Instead of releasing a hardware Atom tablet, MS let the OEMs do it, who were already pissed that MS was going to release the surface rt/pro and take their hardware business. OEM's do a horrible job of releasing atom tablets AFTER windows 8 gets released, taking a lot of steam away from that release, and there is virtually no marketing of atom tablets. Big mistake as this should have been MS entry to have a big piece of the pie.

Surface Pro: Beautiful device, but too ahead of it's time. Thick, heavy, horrible battery life, terrible scaling, expensive, it was destined to be a niche product, a beta.

Windows 8: This is a tough one, MS did not want to lose it's incredible advantage in a 30 year old Windows ecosystem, but at the same time was smart enough to know not to split the market with its OS (which it did anyway with WinRT, sigh). Yes win8 was released too early, but 8.1 has done a ton to fix those errors. While I initally hated Metro, I now understand it IS the future. When MS doesn't innovate people point fingers and say "copiers", but when MS does innovate people point their fingers and say "it's too different".

It's a shame because using a windows tablet is truly a dream come true, a dream I never thought would come true as I tolerated all of the ipads shortcomings.

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Renzatic said:
It's the last thing a long time Apple fan should say, because...well...Macs never did sell all that well in the past, did they? Certainly you wouldn't consider the fact they only sold a fraction as much as Wintel PCs to be an indicator of their quality, would you?
Click to expand...

This makes WAYYY too much sense, you don't belong in this discussion with your useless things like logic and common sense. ;)
 
spinedoc77 said:
Windows 8: This is a tough one, MS did not want to lose it's incredible advantage in a 30 year old Windows ecosystem, but at the same time was smart enough to know not to split the market with its OS (which it did anyway with WinRT, sigh). Yes win8 was released too early, but 8.1 has done a ton to fix those errors. While I initally hated Metro, I now understand it IS the future. When MS doesn't innovate people point fingers and say "copiers", but when MS does innovate people point their fingers and say "it's too different".

It's a shame because using a windows tablet is truly a dream come true, a dream I never thought would come true as I tolerated all of the ipads shortcomings.
Click to expand...

Basically, M$ don't know how to do strategy. And no, Metro is not the future for desktop. It's essentially big-ass icons on a full-window and driving developers to create inflexible full-sized apps that don't work on desktops. Did Apple have problems when they dropped PowerPC for Intel? No; because they provided some form of emulation for a period of time to allow developers to either drop support for legacy products (or stay on the last supported version) or redevelop for Intel chips. The support was there and Apple made sure they knew when the threshold of Intel based Mac's was at greater proportion, they dropped emulation.

M$ unfortunately have created confusion because they wanted to blend their single OS onto different chipsets without using a different name other than Windows 8. The only thing that would of saved M$ would be providing emulation support for the new Surface ARM apps on to the x86. This would provide a consistent experience if they wanted their desktop OS to fit in the tablet architecture (rather than creating conflicting versions of the same tablet). Shows complete misunderstanding of what they wanted to with the current technology trends.

The best thing Apple did was create the divide between desktop and smartphone/tablet systems. People understand the difference unlike Microsoft's Windows 8 phone / tablet / desktop blurry mess.
 
spinedoc77 said:
It's a shame because using a windows tablet is truly a dream come true, a dream I never thought would come true as I tolerated all of the ipads shortcomings.

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Click to expand...




Does your dream include ONLY holding your tablet in landscape mode? Like holding a steering wheel like a race car driver when you read posts like these? Hurry, floor it, you're almost at the finish line!
 
ricosuave said:
Does your dream include ONLY holding your tablet in landscape mode? Like holding a steering wheel like a race car driver when you read posts like these? Hurry, floor it, you're almost at the finish line!
Click to expand...

Is it possible that someone has a use case or preference other than yours?
 
Tunster said:
Basically, M$ don't know how to do strategy. And no, Metro is not the future for desktop. It's essentially big-ass icons on a full-window and driving developers to create inflexible full-sized apps that don't work on desktops. Did Apple have problems when they dropped PowerPC for Intel? No; because they provided some form of emulation for a period of time to allow developers to either drop support for legacy products (or stay on the last supported version) or redevelop for Intel chips. The support was there and Apple made sure they knew when the threshold of Intel based Mac's was at greater proportion, they dropped emulation.

M$ unfortunately have created confusion because they wanted to blend their single OS onto different chipsets without using a different name other than Windows 8. The only thing that would of saved M$ would be providing emulation support for the new Surface ARM apps on to the x86. This would provide a consistent experience if they wanted their desktop OS to fit in the tablet architecture (rather than creating conflicting versions of the same tablet). Shows complete misunderstanding of what they wanted to with the current technology trends.

The best thing Apple did was create the divide between desktop and smartphone/tablet systems. People understand the difference unlike Microsoft's Windows 8 phone / tablet / desktop blurry mess.
Click to expand...

I didn't really do justice to my thoughts there, I don't think Metro is the future of windows as a desktop interface, just as I don't think iOS is the future of OSx as a desktop interface. What I meant is that Metro is the future of windows in a mobile format, but with the added benefit of having the full desktop at it's disposal. IMO we are not at a point in terms of interface to truly let go of the desktop interface, otherwise why isn't Apple running iOS on it's desktops and laptops. MS has to skirt this dual world and they decided instead of short changing their customers by only putting Metro on their tablets, they would give their intelligent customers the choice of whether they wanted to use the desktop of the more mobile friendly Metro. Personally I like to be treated as an intelligent adult with choices rather than a stupid child who needs something "simple", but hey that's me.

As for emulation, I didn't realize there were Windows ARM apps which did not run on x86? More specifically are there WinRT apps that don't run, or have an equivalent on x86? No there issue had nothing to do with emulation, and PowerPC to x86 is not the same comparison IMO as we are talking about moving the same OS to a different hardware versus moving an OS itself to a different form factor. Although I would assume with the ambiguity of your analogy you meant windows x86 to windows rt/arm, but that's just a mistake all around any way you look at it, no arguments from me there.

I think the worst thing Apple ever did was create that divide, between tablets and "real computers". I understand (although few on there actually do) that part of that decision was dictated by hardware, and rightly so, Apple made a great decision to limit iOS in order to have a thin, light tablet with phenomenal battery life. But those days are past us and there is now NO reason to have a simplistic watered down OS on tablets anymore, zero, zilch other than to have this weird "hey my grandma can use it" or "hey my 2 year old can use it" mentality. I'm not sure when "my 2 year old can use it" became the benchmark for technology, but personally I think that was a very sad day for all of us.

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ricosuave said:
Does your dream include ONLY holding your tablet in landscape mode? Like holding a steering wheel like a race car driver when you read posts like these? Hurry, floor it, you're almost at the finish line!
Click to expand...

My desktop computers screen is always in landscape mode, I don't ask the inane question why can't my desktop do portrait. My laptop screen is always in landscape mode, I don't ask the inane question why can't my laptop do tablet. Web pages look better IMO in landscape mode. Oh yeah I can hold my tablet in portrait mode when I'm using my stylus and Wacom screen to annotate PDF's, write and edit Word documents, or yes browse web pages, or maybe even use the pressure sensitive stylus to work in the full version of Photoshop. Oh wait the ipads can't do that? :eek:
 
spinedoc77 said:
I didn't really do justice to my thoughts there, I don't think Metro is the future of windows as a desktop interface, just as I don't think iOS is the future of OSx as a desktop interface. What I meant is that Metro is the future of windows in a mobile format, but with the added benefit of having the full desktop at it's disposal. IMO we are not at a point in terms of interface to truly let go of the desktop interface, otherwise why isn't Apple running iOS on it's desktops and laptops. MS has to skirt this dual world and they decided instead of short changing their customers by only putting Metro on their tablets, they would give their intelligent customers the choice of whether they wanted to use the desktop of the more mobile friendly Metro. Personally I like to be treated as an intelligent adult with choices rather than a stupid child who needs something "simple", but hey that's me.

As for emulation, I didn't realize there were Windows ARM apps which did not run on x86? More specifically are there WinRT apps that don't run, or have an equivalent on x86? No there issue had nothing to do with emulation, and PowerPC to x86 is not the same comparison IMO as we are talking about moving the same OS to a different hardware versus moving an OS itself to a different form factor. Although I would assume with the ambiguity of your analogy you meant windows x86 to windows rt/arm, but that's just a mistake all around any way you look at it, no arguments from me there.

I think the worst thing Apple ever did was create that divide, between tablets and "real computers". I understand (although few on there actually do) that part of that decision was dictated by hardware, and rightly so, Apple made a great decision to limit iOS in order to have a thin, light tablet with phenomenal battery life. But those days are past us and there is now NO reason to have a simplistic watered down OS on tablets anymore, zero, zilch other than to have this weird "hey my grandma can use it" or "hey my 2 year old can use it" mentality. I'm not sure when "my 2 year old can use it" became the benchmark for technology, but personally I think that was a very sad day for all of us.

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My desktop computers screen is always in landscape mode, I don't ask the inane question why can't my desktop do portrait. My laptop screen is always in landscape mode, I don't ask the inane question why can't my laptop do tablet. Web pages look better IMO in landscape mode. Oh yeah I can hold my tablet in portrait mode when I'm using my stylus and Wacom screen to annotate PDF's, write and edit Word documents, or yes browse web pages, or maybe even use the pressure sensitive stylus to work in the full version of Photoshop. Oh wait the ipads can't do that? :eek:
Click to expand...


So Spinedoc, you think Apple made a mistake creating that divide even though their decision went on to make them highly profitable and the biggest name in tech right now? You think Microsoft made that right choice when all of their consumer products are stumbling and have barely any market share? You are the consumer version of Steve Ballmer :)

Seriously, I don't understand how you can sit here and defend MS products day in and out after its been proven to be a failure. The guy that created Windows 8 was fired for crying out loud. You are certainly the minority on this and for the sake of wasting forum chat time maybe we all should say you are right and that the Surface is the best tablet available that nobody wants. :)

Note: It's not wanted for a reason. :)
 
"You have a keyboard too" (Bottom of the screen: Keyboard not included disclaimer)

LOL, guess what Microsoft, iPad also has a keyboard that is sold separately. Very weak. Whoudln't have used that "point", if that's what you think it was. Desperate.
 
Black Magic said:
So Spinedoc, you think Apple made a mistake creating that divide even though their decision went on to make them highly profitable and the biggest name in tech right now? You think Microsoft made that right choice when all of their consumer products are stumbling and have barely any market share? You are the consumer version of Steve Ballmer :)

Seriously, I don't understand how you can sit here and defend MS products day in and out after its been proven to be a failure. The guy that created Windows 8 was fired for crying out loud. You are certainly the minority on this and for the sake of wasting forum chat time maybe we all should say you are right and that the Surface is the best tablet available that nobody wants. :)

Note: It's not wanted for a reason. :)
Click to expand...

Nope, I specifically said that "Apple made a great decision to limit iOS in order to have a thin, light tablet with phenomenal battery life". Very smart move at the time, considering where technology was. But I also said it was the worst decision IMO because it brought us to this "my 2 year old can figure it out" mentality. I've also outlined many times why I feel MS has made some bad decisions, arguably almost all of their decisions have been bad. I'm not sure if you are not truly reading my responses, or you just want to be contrary for the sake of being so.

I never said the Surface is the best tablet, in fact I think both the surface RT and the surface Pro are misguided and bad decisions. Read carefully.
 
ricosuave said:
To not have a choice is another.
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Yep, the ipad is full of not having choices. I'd rather have the choice. Do I want a dumb tablet or a desktop experience. Do I want to type on screen or use a stylus? Do I want to run apps or desktop programs? Do I want to save to a memory card or the cloud? Do I want to use a USB device? etc etc etc, too many to list.
 
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