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Why would I want to use a tablet if I have a table top? That's what a notebook computer is for.

Because a tablet shouldn't be usable in multiple locations? Odd comment

You also prefer Android, so that tells me you value other things than fit and finish.

Absurd comment. Where did he say he preferred Android? And since many people here own multiple devices - not just Apple ones - how can you even make that comment without sounding ridiculous.

To borrow your phrase... "psst come closer. I'll tell ya a secret. " - you can't make that comment without sounding ridiculous.
 
I've played with the tablet at Best Buy and unlike your mentioned reviews, did not find it "fast, smooth, boots quick, and works well." But you think otherwise, go figure. To each it's own I guess. You also prefer Android, so that tells me you value other things than fit and finish.

Wuh? I generally prefer iOS overall, and don't even own an Android device. It's just that, unlike some people here, I'm not so stuck on cheerleading for one platform I can't acknowledge the strengths of others.

Android does offer you more options to use tools that better fit the job than iOS does. There are word processor apps out for Android that allow you to use a mouse when you want to select that space between the X and the A three paragraphs up. Tablets like the Samsung Note line that have built in digitizers for sketching, painting, or jotting down...wait for it...notes in class.

This is what Apple should be doing with the iPad.

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To borrow your phrase... "psst come closer. I'll tell ya a secret. " - you can't make that comment without sounding ridiculous.

Samcraig is back earning more Hotpockets for the cause! It's been too long, man! :D
 
Because a tablet shouldn't be usable in multiple locations? Odd comment



Absurd comment. Where did he say he preferred Android? And since many people here own multiple devices - not just Apple ones - how can you even make that comment without sounding ridiculous.

To borrow your phrase... "psst come closer. I'll tell ya a secret. " - you can't make that comment without sounding ridiculous.

I misunderstood his comments earlier. And I agree, I should not have made that statement.
 
I think you've jumped the shark when your criticism for the iPad is a stylus.

It wasn't my primary criticism, or even my secondary one, but you kept discussing it. Still, it IS an area of criticism, for me at least.

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Why would I want to use a tablet if I have a table top? That's what a notebook computer is for.

My tablet replaces my notebook so I only have to carry around one device.
 
I misunderstood his comments earlier. And I agree, I should not have made that statement.

Fair enough. You have my respect (not that I think you care either way) because unlike many here - you own up to your posts and if/when you make a mistake. It's refreshing. And I'm not just saying that because you were addressing me on this particular issue.
 
That's the thing. I don't think you can make the desktop finger friendly. If you scale everything too big, you won't have room to navigate between your various windows comfortably. And if you can't do that, then what's the point of having the desktop?

The desktop is all about providing space for multiple windows. The more room it has to work with, the better. This isn't something a tablet will ever be strong at. You only have so much space to work with, and most of that space should be dedicated to a single app.

What a tablet needs is a better way to multitask. Something that works almost as well as what you get on a desktop, but still plays to the strength of the medium. Metro's dockable apps come pretty close to this. It doesn't give you as much flexibility as a desktop, true, but it does allows you to juggle two-three apps pretty easily.

If you ask me, what iOS needs is something like app docking. Something that allows you to...for lack of a better word...prime an app for easy access while you're working in another. Also it needs something very much like Mission Control in OSX. I think using this setup, you could build something that's touch friendly, allows for complexity, but still simple enough grandma can use it.



You're looking at the worst case scenario. Touch based devices don't necessarily have to be any less powerful than their desktop equivalents. They just have to be designed differently.

And like I've said in the past (I've been repeating myself a lot here recently), touch will one day be the primary method we interact with our computers. A whole generation of kids are growing up around iPads, iPhones, Android devices, Windows touch enabled laptops, all kinds of stuff they navigate through with their fingers. They're gonna be expecting it from here on out.



Anyone who tries that deserves the headache. I use my iPad and Pages/Onenote/Whatever to write stuff all the time, though. I'll set it up on my desk, take my bluetooth keyboard out, and type away. And you know, it works pretty well. I could easily see a future where I'm getting by just as well as I am now with touch based devices.

...though you know what would make it better? If I had a damn mouse or a stylus with a proper pointed end for those moments when I want to make a specific selection. Touch pretty much sucks for making precise selections.

Well you know some of the functions in Metro address your multiple points. For example in Metro we don't need desktop windows functions like a close/minimize/resize button for example. Instead of having to worry about scale/resize the close button on a window for example, in Metro you simply swipe downwards and the program is completely closed, or you can resize it with a swipe to introduce other windows, or you can swipe in from the left to scroll through your open programs, or you can swipe and hold from the left to see a taskbar style snapshot of your open programs. It's this desktop replacing touch functionality which many are not seeing as incredibly positive points to Windows 8. MS is in fact taking steps to take the desktop to the next level, letting users get used to swiping and such for example.

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But don't you see? He wants his tablet's fans to whisper at him. Comfort him. He wants his tablet's batteries to last a whole 1.5 hours. He wants a stylus for crying out loud. His needs are different.

My windows tablet actually lasts me 10+ hours.

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I've played with the tablet at Best Buy and unlike your mentioned reviews, did not find it "fast, smooth, boots quick, and works well." But you think otherwise, go figure. To each it's own I guess. You also prefer Android, so that tells me you value other things than fit and finish.

Not sure what you played with, maybe an RT tablet which are sluggish. But windows tablets are smooth and work well, tons of reviews which note this point.

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Wuh? I generally prefer iOS overall, and don't even own an Android device. It's just that, unlike some people here, I'm not so stuck on cheerleading for one platform I can't acknowledge the strengths of others.

Android does offer you more options to use tools that better fit the job than iOS does. There are word processor apps out for Android that allow you to use a mouse when you want to select that space between the X and the A three paragraphs up. Tablets like the Samsung Note line that have built in digitizers for sketching, painting, or jotting down...wait for it...notes in class.

This is what Apple should be doing with the iPad.

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Samcraig is back earning more Hotpockets for the cause! It's been too long, man! :D

It's nice to see someone being open minded about all the technology out there. Each has its pluses and minuses, I love ipads for their incredible gaming ability for example, something the windows tablets are woefully lacking in.
 
The one with the baseball scouts is particularly lame. "What's his ERA? Against Lefties?" Uhh, wouldn't they already know that information if they sent a scout to look at him? A more appropriate question would be "How is he out of the stretch?" or "How's his stuff look in person?" OK, that last question came out wrong, but you know what I mean. You wouldn't need a tablet to answer those questions.
 
Windows RT is an atrocity, a hugely bad decision and MS rightly deserves the loss of money and the loss of stock for such a bad strategy. It still doesn't mean that consumers don't want a stylus on the ipad and that Jobs was wrong. Nice try in trying to put those 2 distantly related things together though, A+ for effort and creativity.

Apple consumers want a stylus about as much as J Crew consumers want a phanny pack
 
Hilarious how optimistic some of the MSFT investors were about this thing. It's iOS vs Android. Let's face it, this thing is a low-end laptop.
 
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That is all nice, but I'm talking about real world, the majority of which are various age PC's, not imaginary Apple world where everyone has the latest Apple devices and has iTunes/Apple accounts.
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I don't know where you're from, but I live in that imaginary apple world.

In Nashville, it's legitimately difficult to find a non-apple user.

Heres an example: My roommate bought a midi foot switch for controlling Logic from a pedalboard. The initial configuration required windows (obscure no name generic product). The first thing we said was "where THE HECK are we gonna find a PC??" After several days of asking friends at Vanderbilt, Belmont and elsewhere, we finally used someone's Windows partition ON A MAC.
 
I don't know where you're from, but I live in that imaginary apple world.

In Nashville, it's legitimately difficult to find a non-apple user.

Heres an example: My roommate bought a midi foot switch for controlling Logic from a pedalboard. The initial configuration required windows (obscure no name generic product). The first thing we said was "where THE HECK are we gonna find a PC??" After several days of asking friends at Vanderbilt, Belmont and elsewhere, we finally used someone's Windows partition ON A MAC.

In NJ it's legitimately difficult to find an Apple user. My friend bought a inversion table which came with Apple installation software, we asked all our friends at all the bars and watering holes in several towns and couldn't find any Apple users. We finally ended up Hackintoshing a PC to run OSx on it.
 
Well you know some of the functions in Metro address your multiple points. For example in Metro we don't need desktop windows functions like a close/minimize/resize button for example. Instead of having to worry about scale/resize the close button on a window for example, in Metro you simply swipe downwards and the program is completely closed, or you can resize it with a swipe to introduce other windows, or you can swipe in from the left to scroll through your open programs, or you can swipe and hold from the left to see a taskbar style snapshot of your open programs. It's this desktop replacing touch functionality which many are not seeing as incredibly positive points to Windows 8. MS is in fact taking steps to take the desktop to the next level, letting users get used to swiping and such for example.

Yup. Metro does do a lot of what I want to see out of a tablet. Thing is, it has one big problem: A dearth of apps. Metro is currently justifiable only on low end devices like the RT. Why? Because that's what all the apps are built for. The only Office app actually built using WinRT is OneNote. The rest are still using Win32. It's the reason why the RT ended up with a desktop mode.

If MS wants to win the mobile war, they need a tablet that's built to be a tablet. Not an inbetween device like the Surface Pro and the various Win8 devices currently are. They need the powerful apps the desktop hosts, but built to take advantage of a touch based environment. If they can do this, they'll go from being the "nice...but..." option, to a solid contender against the iPad.

To me, the desktop will never really work on a tablet. You might be able to get by with it, sure. I know I could use it pretty well with the stylus. But it'll never be optimal. Never offer that feeling of being a specifically tailored experience like iOS does. It'll always feel like a somewhat clunky compromise. If MS wants to compete against iOS and Android, they need Metro to offer up as many of the advantages of the desktop as they can, apps, flexibility, multitasking, etc, but all of it built with touch in mind.

Right now, MS feels like they're just half-in. They've got a lot of good ideas, but they haven't taken real advantage of them yet.
 
Yup. Metro does do a lot of what I want to see out of a tablet. Thing is, it has one big problem: A dearth of apps. Metro is currently justifiable only on low end devices like the RT. Why? Because that's what all the apps are built for. The only Office app actually built using WinRT is OneNote. The rest are still using Win32. It's the reason why the RT ended up with a desktop mode.

If MS wants to win the mobile war, they need a tablet that's built to be a tablet. Not an inbetween device like the Surface Pro and the various Win8 devices currently are. They need the powerful apps the desktop hosts, but built to take advantage of a touch based environment. If they can do this, they'll go from being the "nice...but..." option, to a solid contender against the iPad.

To me, the desktop will never really work on a tablet. You might be able to get by with it, sure. I know I could use it pretty well with the stylus. But it'll never be optimal. Never offer that feeling of being a specifically tailored experience like iOS does. It'll always feel like a somewhat clunky compromise. If MS wants to compete against iOS and Android, they need Metro to offer up as many of the advantages of the desktop as they can, apps, flexibility, multitasking, etc, but all of it built with touch in mind.

Right now, MS feels like they're just half-in. They've got a lot of good ideas, but they haven't taken real advantage of them yet.

So true. But we all the know the tick tock nature of Windows releases. This is the Vista Tick and windows 9 will be the "7" Tock
 
Yup. Metro does do a lot of what I want to see out of a tablet. Thing is, it has one big problem: A dearth of apps. Metro is currently justifiable only on low end devices like the RT. Why? Because that's what all the apps are built for. The only Office app actually built using WinRT is OneNote. The rest are still using Win32. It's the reason why the RT ended up with a desktop mode.

If MS wants to win the mobile war, they need a tablet that's built to be a tablet. Not an inbetween device like the Surface Pro and the various Win8 devices currently are. They need the powerful apps the desktop hosts, but built to take advantage of a touch based environment. If they can do this, they'll go from being the "nice...but..." option, to a solid contender against the iPad.

To me, the desktop will never really work on a tablet. You might be able to get by with it, sure. I know I could use it pretty well with the stylus. But it'll never be optimal. Never offer that feeling of being a specifically tailored experience like iOS does. It'll always feel like a somewhat clunky compromise. If MS wants to compete against iOS and Android, they need Metro to offer up as many of the advantages of the desktop as they can, apps, flexibility, multitasking, etc, but all of it built with touch in mind.

Right now, MS feels like they're just half-in. They've got a lot of good ideas, but they haven't taken real advantage of them yet.

No I hear you, the app ecosystem is hurting MS. But you have to admit they have made HUGE strides in their app ecosystem, they are trying. The legacy windows programs are what put them over the edge. That's why RT is such a failure.

What's nice is that MS DOES have a tablet which was built to be a tablet, the Atom powered variant. I've said this ever since they were released back in December MS biggest mistake was not simply making their surface hardware with the Atom processor. Still, they do exist from other OEM's and they are pretty awesome, and they will run desktop programs as well as Metro apps.

Certainly the desktop days are numbered, but not as shortly numbered as you think, there is still a need for it. If I was smart enough to invent a way to move on past the desktop I'd be a billionaire, but I'm not, but then again neither is Apple so far. But consider that with a windows tablet you don't ever have to look at the desktop if you don't want to, you can simply stay in Metro 100% of the time. Once MS starts catching up with apps this will be a more significant point. It's not that MS is half in, they are all in as they understand how important this is, it's just that they have incredibly bad management and cannot focus in one direction like Apple can. The one thing Apple is incredible at is they can have a razor sharp focus in a single direction and the entire company moves as one in that direction.

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They must only air HD vision sunglasses commercials in the south.

Now that I think about it, I don't blame them.

It's an example of a lame product that makes a lot of money

Hmm, I still don't get it. I think the only lame thing here is your joke, hehe. :eek:
 
So true. But we all the know the tick tock nature of Windows releases. This is the Vista Tick and windows 9 will be the "7" Tock

I'm pretty sure Windows 9 is going to be perfected Windows 8. That's how MS has worked since forever now.

Thing is, they can't afford to do the tick-tock cycle in the mobile scene. They don't have as much leverage there as they do on the desktop. There's no complete, polished version to tide people over in the meantime.
 
That's because Apple invented the modern internet. It was made on a bunch of Steve Jobs made computers, you know. Only he had the vision necessary to create the World Wide Web.

We should call it the Steven P. Jobs Memorial Information Superhighway to honor him.

And all this time I thought that Al Gore invented the internet!
 
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