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It's might be successful in converting a few, but won't put a dent in the iPad installed base. It also won't help the installed base of the surface.

What they need is a good product AND marketing and they have neither.

I was in a store in Amsterdam a few days ago and played around with a surface pro. It wasn't set up properly and didn't work. Regardless of the quality of the product, who would but that if the tried it? In addition MS does not do commercials here.

The thing might have some traction in the US, but here it is and will remain a dud.
 
Oh so you admit you're anti-Apple. Why are you here? This isn't a place for flaming. You can get banned.

I didn't say I'm anti-apple. Read it again.

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seriously, i cant believe someone hasnt called you out on thi. Ice cream bars?? really? people buy more than one a year because they EAT them and then poop them out there @sses!!! you cant do anything to it once that happens! do you eat ipads?? worst analogy ever.

You kind of proved my point actually. Some things don't need added functionality other things should. That analogy was to poke fun of a Previous statement. Not to be taken literally. I thought that was obvious :rolleyes: actually it was obvious. That's why no one called me out on it.
 
It's might be successful in converting a few, but won't put a dent in the iPad installed base. It also won't help the installed base of the surface.

What they need is a good product AND marketing and they have neither.

I was in a store in Amsterdam a few days ago and played around with a surface pro. It wasn't set up properly and didn't work. Regardless of the quality of the product, who would but that if the tried it? In addition MS does not do commercials here.

The thing might have some traction in the US, but here it is and will remain a dud.

MS has definitely screwed up in the marketing, though they're on top of it now. The current crop of Windows 8 tablet commercials are fantastic. The early ones were complete crap. I've seen a number of displays like that, where the device wasn't properly setup or maintained, and where poorly trained employees couldn't explain the product well at all.

But to say that it'll "remain a dud" is silly. You're predicting a future nobody can yet see.

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They aren't above criticism. You just don't want to be reminded of it apparently. That's unfortunate.. For you I mean.

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Oh c'mon it has a villain with a cool British accent and robocop!

I really like Benedict Cumberbatch, but he was completely miscast. Khan was neither white nor British, and the reboot of Trek didn't extend all the way back to the 1990's. The writing was AWFUL. :)

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No, the Surface Pro is a not a laptop with less features. It is a hybrid devices that attempts to meld the worlds of tablet and ultrabook, and although it isn't flawless, it's the best attempt anyone has yet made (though I do like the Lenovo Yoga, too).

You, my friend, have actually missed the point. The iPad tries to be only a companion device, and for that, it's pretty good. But it can't replace your computer entirely; even if you own an iPad, odds are good you still need a MacBook or a Windows PC, because an ipad simply lacks the features and capabilities to do all the things people need to do.

Perfection is a myth; it doesn't exist *at all*, no matter what you add or remove. The world is a diverse place with diverse needs, and devices like the iPad--and believe me, I adored my iPad until Apple ruined it with their bloated OS--simply do not offer enough diversity to meet all the needs out there. That's why there is a need for devices like Surface and other tablet/laptop hybrids that do the job of two devices in one.

The market is headed towards a world where the dominant form factor of devices is the tablet. There is no escaping that simple fact. But that doesn't mean that traditional needs and uses of computers disappear; rather, they will be subsumed by the new form factor, just as laptops subsumed the functionality of desktops. In order for that convergence to happen, the world needs an operating system that can live in both worlds with enough success to meet both sets of needs. That OS isn't found in IOS nor in OSX, unfortunately. So far, the closest we have to a true convergence OS is Windows 8, and like it or not, that puts Microsoft on top of the current crop of innovators in the OS and device space. Will they ultimately succeed? I don't know for sure, but I do know this: In 1995, we all thought Microsoft was shooting itself in the foot with Windows 95 and that Linux would take over. In 2002 we all thought MS was killing itself with XP, which launched to slow sales and lots of bitching because it was dramatically different from 9x/DOS. And we definitely all thought their goose was cooked when the steaming pile of crap named Vista was released.

Were we right ANY of those times? No.

The surface is a laptop with less features and no good keyboard, and it's almost as thick as a full ultrabook, so WHAT'S THE POINT?

The thing they don't get is that the iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but rather an ipad! A touchscreen book with cook apps that are not limited with all the bagage of the operating system.

- it doesnt need a usb port, since EVERYTHING is wireless now, just like i didnt care the macbook air in 2008 didnt have a DVD since the last time i used one was in 2005
-also the goal of the ipad is to be sIMPLE, no gizmos, no keyboard, no extras, no usb, no headbreaking for forgetting stuff home, no external dvd or hdd: it is a PLEASURE, fun device that you just want to use and have fun, not worry about anything.
- If you need functionality, get a laptop! A macbook air 11" is the same size and fully capable, or any windows ultrabook

Perfection is achieved when you've run out of things you can remove. That's the essence of simplicity. It's amazing that a large corporation with thousands of employees dont get it. NO ONE gets it in all those ppl? Humanity is screwed.


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Obviously you are a paid troll just joining this website this month. With no economic or biz education. I hope they pay you enough.

I'm a systems engineer with nearly 18 years of experience, I have three degrees, over a dozen certifications and have recently gone back to school for a degree in film. I regret to inform you that I'm definitely not on Microsoft's payroll. That said, you might want to go wipe your mouth off, there's a little Apple splooge on your face.
 
USB and SD slot. Neither are gimmicks, both I already mentioned, but you were apparently too emotionally compromised by reading my criticizm to see it. Don't feel bad though, apparently several members got emotionally compromised as well. Its sad when your self worth is tied to a half eaten piece of fruit.

What's even sadder is someone who comes on to an Apple-centric website with no other reason than to troll. iPad not for you? Great, that's awesome. That's what it's all about..... choosing what you want. I mean what do you expect to gain by arguing here with people that are pro Apple? That somehow your imparted wisdom will make them see the light? Ain't going to happen and you know it.

People always talk about Apple's greatest asset is their marketing. Bull. Their greatest asset is be in the minds of everyone. You included.
 
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Most people don't buy a new phone, computer or iPad every year. Other than upping speed, there's not that much more you can add to such devices other than minor things...

You sound like an Apple Development engineer....or Tim Cook!
 
What's even sadder is someone who comes on to an Apple-centric website with no other reason than to troll. iPad not for you? Great, that's awesome. That's what it's all about..... choosing what you want. I mean what do you expect to gain by arguing here with people that are pro Apple? That somehow your imparted wisdom will make them see the light? Ain't going to happen and you know it.

People always talk about Apple's greatest asset is their marketing. Bull. Their greatest asset is be in the minds of everyone. You included.

Well, I'll agree with one thing: imparting wisdom to a fanboy, regardless of which company they troll for, is impossible. But let's also be honest here: Apple has lost its mojo. The iPhone 5s is a disappointment (though I'm sure it'll sell well), and their share of the tablet market has been ripped to shreds by Android devices. In just 3 years they've gone from 90% dominance with iPad to less than 30% of the overall tablet market. Any way you look at it, that's bad news.

And the reason is very clear: they stopped innovating. All Apple has done for the last 2 years is rest on their laurels, shipping modest improvements to an established cash cow. They're not taking any risks at all anymore, which is what got them to where they are now. It's showing in their stock (down 20% since last year) and in the reaction to their announcements (3 years ago the new iPhone was received with awe; this week it was received with "awwww! I wanted more!"
 
What's even sadder is someone who comes on to an Apple-centric website with no other reason than to troll. iPad not for you? Great, that's awesome. That's what it's all about..... choosing what you want. I mean what do you expect to gain by arguing here with people that are pro Apple? That somehow your imparted wisdom will make them see the light? Ain't going to happen and you know it.

People always talk about Apple's greatest asset is their marketing. Bull. Their greatest asset is be in the minds of everyone. You included.

Nah, criticizing the iPads slow progression certainly isn't sadder than tying your self worth to it.
 
Yeah they are still making a ton of money from enterprise and established business software such as Office and Server operating systems. But they are scrambling for relevance in the new mobile computing era and so far making nothing more than the tiniest dent.

They're definitely starting off slowly, but that's hardly an indicator of failure. Windows XP started off with slow sales and consumer upset at how different it was from the 9x/DOS version of Windows, too. It "failed" to ignite sales of PC's at launch, and it made a lot of people very angry. And yet, it went on to sell a billion copies (literally).

The tablet market is just getting started. I know it's fun to think the party's over, done and won, but the truth is, the ball has only just begun to roll. And right now, it's anybody's game.
 
1) Most people don't buy a car every year
2) We aren't talking about cars

My logic would makes more sense if you knew the above. ;) and you'd know the above if you weren't a die hard apple enthusiast. Ice cream bars don't gain functionality either yet we buy more than one a year, most of us. But again, we aren't talking about ice cream either. I would suggest you learn a bit of logic before pretending to be an expert on the subject.

I don't usually comment on arguments like this, but neither of you are giving example of logic. When it comes to change an progress, there is little logic to apply other than: change is required for change to happen. A nice tautology there.

What has to be asked is: are Apple's competitors adding something new and if they are, is it being embraced by the general consumer or only by a fringe, technically astute community? Apple's strength is to make whole slices of society embrace a new technology or form factor and, for all the tweaks and changes made by others, I cannot see that they have given anything new to the way we embrace technology. When Samsung or some other competitor adds something new and Apple does it later people argue that Apple copied. If however Apple made everyone embrace it, then thy simply got the implementation right. The idea that adding NFC or even fingerprint recognition hasn't or hadn't occurred to Apple before others added it is simply incredibly unlikely. In reality they could not think of a way to make it an essential or incredibly useful tool. Without that behind it, it's just a piece of hardware without a reason. Apple themselves have failed because of this - mac.com, bling (or whatever their Facebook iTunes thing was). The iPod, iPad and iPhone weren't new, but they all worker for people who don't care about what it is as much as people here do. They only care that they can use it. The risk of using cheaper, more spec rich ripoffs is that whole swathes of society become disenchanted by the changes we are seeing because they are faced with the same old confusion that they had before apple entered the market. Nokia died because they implemented messy smartphones. So, to conclude, effective change means having the strength to resist change for change's sake.
 
Step 1: Sell iPad 4 to MS
Step 2: Buy amazon card at MS store
Step 3: Buy Apple card at amazon
Step 4: Buy iPad 5.
Step 5: Brag to MS that you have a better iPad than them.

Lmao! Brilliant. Love your idea

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I imagine it's for people who would like a fully-functioning operating system with access to the file system. Of course, the 2013 Apple culture would not be willing to entertain such an idea.

RT is not a full os and you cannot run windows apps on it. The pro is bulkier , runs hotter and you might as well get a laptop if you ever tried running windows os on a laptop. Your point... Invalid unless you actually go buy an rt and then return it for an iPad of course
 
Well, I'll agree with one thing: imparting wisdom to a fanboy, regardless of which company they troll for, is impossible. But let's also be honest here: Apple has lost its mojo. The iPhone 5s is a disappointment (though I'm sure it'll sell well), and their share of the tablet market has been ripped to shreds by Android devices. In just 3 years they've gone from 90% dominance with iPad to less than 30% of the overall tablet market. Any way you look at it, that's bad news.

And the reason is very clear: they stopped innovating. All Apple has done for the last 2 years is rest on their laurels, shipping modest improvements to an established cash cow. They're not taking any risks at all anymore, which is what got them to where they are now. It's showing in their stock (down 20% since last year) and in the reaction to their announcements (3 years ago the new iPhone was received with awe; this week it was received with "awwww! I wanted more!"


Lost its mojo? Quite possibly but if you've been around here for very long that same argument has been around for a while. Intel was upping clock speed while the PPC Moto chips couldn't get past 1 GHz. What? Nothing new about the "new" iPod except greater storage. Honestly if you really look at the iPhone it's not that much different now from the original. Faster, better screen, better battery life and now a finger scanner but the basics are the same. Same could be said about all phones. They're all basically evolutions of their originals. I don't see Apple innovating to any great measure until if/when they enter a new market.

If they iPhone is a disappointment to you I can see that but to broadly cast it's a disappointment generally and in the same breath state "though I'm sure it will sell well" is sort of convoluted. And if you chalk it up to mindless Apple zealotry given the numbers they'll sell is delusional.
 
...

You're comparing an iPad to a Surface Pro? Run Visual Studio on your iPad. Run full Photoshop on your iPad.

I could continue.

Edit: Or in other words: Regardless of how much you spend on an iPad you can do so much more on a Surface Pro.

Lmao!! Run visual studio on your rt or pro pad. You are funny
 
Does a car get any additional functionality every new model year? It does the same thing...get you to and from a place. Only engines, look, bells and whistles get upgraded really.

You're logic is really really bad.

To be fair so is yours, you cannot compare a car development and manadacturing process to an iPad . The worst thing abused on these forums is car anologies.

Really really silly.
 
How about the other way around?

Bring a surface to Apple Store to "ahem" trade "ahem" it in?:rolleyes:

That's fine. Apple will recycle it for you for free.
Well, I assume they do. They accept computers, so probably will also accept tablets.
 
You clearly haven't seen Microsoft's financial reports lately, then. They are doing VERY well. Notice how they just paid cash to buy out Nokia's devices and services division and still have over 70 billion dollars in the bank? Yeah--they're not hurting for profit.

Up to 2000 Microsoft built up an incredibly strong range of products. Since then they have been living on their past success. Compare Microsoft in 2000 and Apple in 2000. And then ask yourself: How come people are buying iPhones and not Windows Phones? Microsoft should have been the biggest seller of high end phones. If Apple could do it, why not the much bigger Microsoft? Total failure. How come people are buying iPods and not Zunes? How come people are buying iPads and not Surface tablets? Total, total failure.

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It is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, the overall specs (that usually don't matter) of the A7 are very impressive, and make for a great upgrade from Apple's current lineup.

...but 64 bit on a smartphone or tablet? It'll be at least 5 years before any iDevice apps even comes close to needing to take advantage of it. All it does right now is make for extra memory overhead without any performance benefits. It's about as useful as the octo core ARM CPUs Samsung is making. It looks nice on a spec sheet, but what mobile app needs it?

Except you are wrong. On several accounts. There are major advances in this chip that have nothing to do with RAM: Twice the number of registers. Twice the number of vector registers. Vector operations for double precision floating point. That alone makes it run faster. Lots of code is optimised for 64 bit, because years of MacOS X 64 bit optimisations can just be carried over. As an example of actual memory savings, the C++ standard library will not allocate memory for any strings up to 22 characters. NSNumber objects will usually not allocate any memory. Then there are built-in operations for cryptography, making encryption and decryption a lot faster.

Memory usage is 90% dictated by things where 64 bit doesn't produce any memory overhead, that is graphics, video, audio, text.
 
I sold my faulty ipad2 (physically damaged) for parts on eBay for 189AU$. Why one would trade in a working ipad2 or newer for 200$?:confused:
 
Will it work ? Who knows.

Is it a great idea ? Who knows.

But will Apple make the same offer ? ...
"Bought a turd from Microsoft or Samsung ?
Bring it in to the Apple Store for $300 off the new 128GB iPad."
 
So MS is telling me to get rid of my great iPad 4 AND pay $150 for a Surface tablet?????!!!! :eek::eek::eek:


I think they said minimum of $200 for iPad 2...

You won't get as much as welling an iPad on eBay or Craigslist but I'm guessing you would get somewhere around amazon trade value.

You don't have to get a surface tablet. Anything in the Microsoft store.


I know this is a apple forum but atleast read the post before you start ignorantly hating.
 
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