Microsoft, Samsung Take on Apple With New Smartphone Announcements

[Eidorian]

When the iPhone was being announced, I thought "Good, Apple will do something unique in handheld UIs."

Instead, they put out a 1984 style icon grid, with a bunch of non-integrated standalone apps. Big whoop. All the other stuff was old hat to us enterprise touch screen folk. Granted, it's a good choice if you want to keep things super simple.

Since then, I've waited for someone to take a truly fresh approach. Palm and HTC started the idea of integrating all social pieces together, but didn't take it very far.

Now Microsoft steps with in a far younger generation of UI designers, who understand that a lot of people will want things grouped by social activity. It won't be the UI for everyone, not by a long shot, but at least it's truly innovative.

Apple cannot afford to do anything like this, because it doesn't hit as many tiers of users as they like. And frankly, I think Apple is stuck because Jobs had a hit with the original Mac and still thinks icon grids and single-tasking are sufficient.

I fought Microsoft most of my professional life. Unlike some of the loudmouth kids around here, I actually invested a lot of time and development and money in trying to create and boost competing products, probably while many were in diapers. But I have to admit, I'm pleasantly surprised that MS's old guys let go enough to let this kind of UI get attempted.

This is what I see in the interface of Windows Mobile 7. Throw in the work they've done with Xbox Live and the social aspects of that and you're going places. It's a phone aiming for someone that owns an Xbox 360. They're not forgetting the business side either.

 

[QuixoticFable]

Thats the point, apple has set up a great system in which they give the tools and framework to foster innovation. Part of that innovation is having a system built from to ground up to interact with humans in ways which we haven't before.

Seeing that is the future of computing, and enabling the masses to participate? THATS innovation.

Okay, I get what you're saying. Apple is more the facilitator of innovation (though not without a certain degree of control). That actually makes more sense with what Apple has done the past couple of years and with the announced plans for the iPad. Thanks for explaining that perspective.

 

[Clown Boy]

I love this phone, think the UI looks great, clean, modern and easy to use.

I don't expect the fan boi's to like it but that goes without saying. These were the same idiots that defended the lack of cut & paste in the iPhone.

I vote positive, think this will be a big hit.

 

[diamond.g]

This is what I see in the interface of Windows Mobile 7. Throw in the work they've done with Xbox Live and the social aspects of that and you're going places. It's a phone aiming for someone that owns an Xbox 360. They're not forgetting the business side either.

Not a horrible group of people to go after... Maybe it could accomplish what the N-Gage failed to do...

 

[NT1440]

Okay, I get what you're saying. Apple is more the facilitator of innovation (though not without a certain degree of control). That actually makes more sense with what Apple has done the past couple of years and with the announced plans for the iPad. Thanks for explaining that perspective.

No problem. The way I see it Apple is more developer based at this point, which should scare the **** out of Ballmer

Think about it, devs are flooding in to put their content into apples hands, combine that with Apple's mindshare and downright explosive popularity and there is no way that the iPhone and iPad will not become staples of computing in the future.

 

[jclardy]

...On a bigger screen you'd see more content. Where is the problem?

Ok, imagine the 'Home' screen from WP7 on a display 4x as large. Now you have ~30 little 'advertisement' boxes all over your screen, all animated calling for your attention. On a 4" screen that works because you only see between 5-10 at a time, in a single column.

Could they change it for a bigger screen? sure but that is not what the quote was talking about. I'm not saying the iPad's current interface is perfect or anything because it is not. I just have a feeling that iPad has not been completely revealed as of yet (OS 4.0).

 

[newdeal]

...

so if I had 100 apps does that mean I would have to scroll down and down and down and down to get to one? Or are they in groups so I need to dig through heirarchies to try to find something? That seems inefficient

 

[Eidorian]

Not a horrible group of people to go after... Maybe it could accomplish what the N-Gage failed to do...

Throw in Windows Media Center and Windows Home Server integration too. You'll have me foaming at the mouth for a Zune or even a phone.

I wasn't too keen into how social Xbox Live really was. Then I started using matchmaking in Left 4 Dead and realized what it would be like on the 360. Steam is going to great lengths as well to make gaming more social with friend's lists and user profiles. The Games for Windows line also supports integration across PC to Xbox platforms as well. Then I really took notice.

Imagine getting your Xbox Live messages and game invites for later on the road. It's just something to think about.

 

[NT1440]

I love this phone, think the UI looks great, clean, modern and easy to use.

I don't expect the fan boi's to like it but that goes without saying. These were the same idiots that defended the lack of cut & paste in the iPhone.

I vote positive, think this will be a big hit.

How bout the lack of copy/paste and multitasking on these devices? Does that not warrant the same outcry, especially now that its 2 years after those original (and some rightfully ongoing) complaints?

 

[maplestar]

Okay, I get what you're saying. Apple is more the facilitator of innovation (though not without a certain degree of control). That actually makes more sense with what Apple has done the past couple of years and with the announced plans for the iPad. Thanks for explaining that perspective.

Yea, that's one way to see it. They do facilitate innovation by innovating the method of facilitation. But they do also innovate interesting other things. I'm pretty sure the iPhone was the first true multitasking phone, it was probably also the first smartphone with a good browsing experience with a full screen display.

The iPad does make sense in the sense that it really isn't innovative on Apple's part. But it definitely is the fact that they developed it and linked it with the iPhone which will allow developers to really make the great apps that will eventually come out.

Hopefully, since the iPad and the iPhone are connected, their innovation will come out with iPhone OS 4.0. Apple is moving away from Hardware innovation to Software, since full aluminum and unibody and multitouch seems the limit at the moment for hardware innovation.

 

[BTW]

Looks good. I'm glad Microsoft isn't letting Apple run away with the market. They seem to be getting the idea of what people really need. Apple could steal some ideas from them.

 

[psouper]

Content V Apps

Grouping by social content rather than by app is the real innovation here , You can do this on a desktop at the moment with browsers such as Flock - though they can take ages to set up. It will depend on how quickly you can get everything humming on your opening page. Apple though can easily have an app that will do this grouping by content it wouldn't require a new OS.

 

[axual]

Zune redux

MS innovates ... 10 years late.

 

[firewood]

Anyone can hire a hot art department to make a great looking UI for a demo run.

The question is will the new underlying OS environment and API's encourage developers to make new interesting apps, beyond those in the demo, that will provide an excellent user experience. In the past, devs who created PalmOS apps with great UI said that they couldn't do anywhere near as well with WinCE API's, as is.

Several times in the past Apple/Jobs have burned their bridges to the past, essentially forcing developers to write creative new stuff instead of just porting their old code with an unsuitable UI for the new environment. Doing this might be MS's blind spot. They try too hard to cater to the past.

 

[a.gomez]

No it can't. Microsoft is a big company that people like to bash for many reasons. Being a passionate Windows fanboy would be like being an fanboy of something like Sprite. Apple has a niche markets. Niche markets develop a lot of fanboys. It turns into an us against them, while most Windows users are not even aware of Mac or any other type of competition. Not a lot of Windows fanboys because for that they need to be aware of the competition. I do see people defending Microsoft here, but that's mostly in response to FUD and exaggerations by Apple fanboys. On the internet I see a lot of Apple fanboys, and a lot of Apple fanboy haters.

so true

 

[citi]

Yea, that's one way to see it. They do facilitate innovation by innovating the method of facilitation. But they do also innovate interesting other things. I'm pretty sure the iPhone was the first true multitasking phone, it was probably also the first smartphone with a good browsing experience with a full screen display.

The iPad does make sense in the sense that it really isn't innovative on Apple's part. But it definitely is the fact that they developed it and linked it with the iPhone which will allow developers to really make the great apps that will eventually come out.

Hopefully, since the iPad and the iPhone are connected, their innovation will come out with iPhone OS 4.0. Apple is moving away from Hardware innovation to Software, since full aluminum and unibody and multitouch seems the limit at the moment for hardware innovation.

Apple is and always will be...a hardware company. Never forget that. Plus, if an app gets developed that is truly innovative, they will just buy the developer and rebadge it.

They are in the making money business, and business is a boomin'

 

[Povilas]

Grouping by social content rather than by app is the real innovation here , You can do this on a desktop at the moment with browsers such as Flock - though they can take ages to set up. It will depend on how quickly you can get everything humming on your opening page. Apple though can easily have an app that will do this grouping by content it wouldn't require a new OS.

Palm Pre does that already.

 

[cmaier]

LOL, who said Pandora is my main concern? I want true multitasking. Pandora is one of many reasons. And yeah, multitasking requires a major overhaul of the OS because it has to be re-written to allow it and the UI would change because you can't just use the home button to quit an app anymore.

BTW, I'm glad you feel they're minor UI gripes when this is a company that is all about finesse and the perfection of even the smallest minutia. The PNS is so broken it's like a few college kids wrote it.

The OS already alllows multitasking - just not for third party apps. No major overhaul is necessary, though some sort of UI paradigm is required to allow switching of apps.

 

[Flavioparentiq]

No problem. The way I see it Apple is more developer based at this point, which should scare the **** out of Ballmer

Think about it, devs are flooding in to put their content into apples hands, combine that with Apple's mindshare and downright explosive popularity and there is no way that the iPhone and iPad will not become staples of computing in the future.

Some days ago I red a very interesting article talking about apple beeing the new microsoft (for the iphone market share, and maybe the ipad's) and google the new "apple" (beeing cooler than cool, geek only stuff that is actually even better than streamlined product)

There is a shift, right in front of our eyes. The fact that Microsoft is actually showing an os that will come up in 10 month, giving all their ideas to competitor that already are in the market makes it clear that they are far far away from android and iphone os's.

1980: Atari OS, Amiga OS, Dos.
1990: Atari is dead. Amiga OS, APPLE OS, Windows 3.1. (don't mention ibm os/2 failure...)
2000: Amiga is dead. Linux, Apple OSX, Windows NT, 95, 98,2000, xp,vista (fragmentation give apple a chance)
2010: Apple Iphone OS, Google Android (Aka LINUX), Windows Iphone 7.

My bet is on Apple and Google taking the game, windows will be left behind, just like Ibm when bill gates created dos then windows.

 

[mrochester]

Yea, that's one way to see it. They do facilitate innovation by innovating the method of facilitation. But they do also innovate interesting other things. I'm pretty sure the iPhone was the first true multitasking phone, it was probably also the first smartphone with a good browsing experience with a full screen display.

I love it when people come onto a forum thinking they know it all, and end up putting their foot in their mouth like this

 

[RMXO]

No Flash?

No Multitasking?

OMFG, ePiC pHaiLuRe!

 

[darthvedder81]

The iPhone OS is "dated and boring"? Huh?

The iPhone puts all your apps in a clean and simple grid with a black background. If you can't find something swipe left, search and launch.

Nothing could be simpler. I don't need it to be "exciting" I need it to work–or do we want a bunch of useless eye candy added ala Microsoft?

 

[macUser2007]

It's FLASH, Stupid!

WM7 seems to build on their Media Center UI.

Which is a good thing, IMO. It's intuitive and light years ahead of WM6.5.

I left Apple for my home theater, after struggling with the then available OS X HTPC options, and I still find Windows Media Center to be the simplest and most well-rounded of all front-ends, including the rather pathetic FrontRow. The fact that Window Mobile 7 borrows from MCE is great.

Also great is that now we have another worthy competitor to the iPhone, to join Android.

The competition will usher in faster innovation all around, both in hardware and OS/UI.

If Apple fails to bring Flash to iPhone OS 4, it will be the only major mobile platform unable to access a large portion of the current web. It will be a huge disadvantage, even for the small screen of the iPhone.

But, it will be a much bigger disadvantage for the larger screen of the iPad, on which people will actually want to browse the web. There are Android tablets coming out soon, and now there will be WM7 ones. The iPad will be joke if it lacks Flash.

Then there is the camera, multitasking and so on. Apple has its work cut out, but for us, the consumers, 2010 is shaping to be a great year.

 

[Frazzle]

When the iPhone was being announced, I thought "Good, Apple will do something unique in handheld UIs." Instead, they put out a 1984 style icon grid, with a bunch of non-integrated standalone apps. Big whoop. All the other stuff was old hat to us enterprise touch screen folk. Granted, it's a good choice if you want to keep things super simple.

I'm sorry, but I've had it with people who claim the iPhone UI was nothing new to them. Sure, it was all 'old hat' to you. Then riddle me this: how come no one had ever done a decent touch UI on a mobile phone before Apple and how come most "enterprise touch screen folk" have so far only managed to come up with mediocre copies of said UI? It's been 3 years.

I fought Microsoft most of my professional life. Unlike some of the loudmouth kids around here, I actually invested a lot of time and development and money in trying to create and boost competing products, probably while many were in diapers.

So you of all people must applaud Apple's ability to execute. The FUD, vaporware and misinformation tactics that MS likes to employ have probably burnt you as well. And many others, like myself. And MS are still at it.

That's probably why people mistrust them so much. They have a concept video of a tablet out there that has people salivating. But it's just a video. Apple showed us a very real iPad and promised availability in 60 days. That's strength in my book.

So we'll see about this Windows Phone UI. So far, it has all the 'weaknesses' that Ballmer pointed out in the iPhone. Remember? "No keyboard, no real tool for business users..." - sure. Business users will be all over this thing with all the pictures and social networking features. It looks nice, but they did set themselves up for all kinds of nasty comments by so casually dismissing the iPhone way-back-when.

Now that MS is finally catching up, Apple is going strong and moving further ahead. Did MS aim high enough this time? The next couple of months will be interesting.

 

[notjustjay]

Congratulations, Microsoft... you've copied all of Apple's OS breakthroughs and are now touting them as innovations. Quite pathetic, really.

Please name one "Apple OS breakthrough" that Microsoft copied on Windows Mobile 7 Windows Phone Series 7.

Unless you consider "not supporting Flash" to be an Apple innovation...

Edit: whoops, called it the wrong thing