Microsoft Says Apple's 30% Fee Makes Xbox Cloud Gaming iOS App 'Impossible'

[Timo_Existencia]

I just don't think any company should be allowed, under any circumstances, to control what ones does with hardware they own.

I consider it a market failure and it shouldn't be legal.

And if the market agrees with you, if customers hate the way Apple operates, the market will take care of this. This is NOT a market failure. Here's an example of one: the things you hate about Apple I love about Apple.

But if you really feel this way, I have no understanding as to why you're sticking with Apple.

Illegal? Really?

 

[bsolar]

Microsoft takes 30% on their platform…

But Microsoft does not mandate using their App Store on Windows.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

But Microsoft does not mandate using their App Store on Windows.

And MS has a customer base who appreciates the way MS operates. Just as Apple has a customer base who appreciates the way Apple operates.

 

[jamesmcinerney]

Apple's 30 percent commission fee "makes it impossible" for Microsoft to monetize its cloud gaming service, and it is neither "economically sustainable nor justifiable."

Microsoft to Windows Store and XBOX devs: "that will be 30% please"

How can they complain about Apple with a straight face. The hypocrisy is astounding.

 

[Dudebro101]

Uh huh, yet Microsoft can throw $80B+ at acquisitions for games that were already coming to Xbox.

 

[jamesmcinerney]

But Microsoft does not mandate using their App Store on Windows.

They do on Xbox though. Same 30%, same "you must use our digital distribution model"

When will we be able to side load Xbox games?

 

[bsolar]

And MS has a customer base who appreciates the way MS operates. Just as Apple has a customer base who appreciates the way Apple operates.

I hope you understand the way Microsoft operates on Windows is basically required to them due to anti-trust considerations, not on what Microsoft's customer base wants or needs.

Microsoft would absolutely mandate using their app store and take a cut for everything that gets installed on Windows if they could, but the anti-trust would destroy them if they tried.

 

[Unity451]

Impossible → Improbable

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

But Microsoft does not mandate using their App Store on Windows.

Imagine if they had asked for 30% of iTunes sales on Windows in 2003.

If 2003 Apple had to deal with companies that operated like 2024 Apple they wouldn't exist anymore.

 

[jinnj]

I get the feeling that this House of Cards is about to collapse on Apple. The writing is on the wall and its about time Apple changes their policies regarding the fees etc. If not then EU (and others later) will force them.

Can't wait

Revenue Share​

Microsoft takes a 30% cut of game sales and in-app purchases for most developers publishing on Xbox. This means developers keep 70% of the revenue their games generate on the platform.

Fee Reduction for Some Developers​

In 2021, Microsoft announced they would reduce their cut to 12% for PC games sold through the Microsoft Store. However, this reduced rate does not apply to Xbox console games.

Free-to-Play Games​

Microsoft does take a cut of in-game purchases made through its platforms. Specifically, for games sold on the Microsoft Store, the company takes a 12% cut of the revenue from in-game purchases, which is a reduction from the previous 30% cut that was standard across many platforms. This fee structure aligns Microsoft more closely with the Epic Games Store, which also charges a 12% fee, and is part of a broader strategy to remain competitive in the gaming market, particularly against rivals like Apple and Valve.However, it's important to note that this 12% cut applies specifically to games. For non-game apps, developers can retain 100% of their revenue from in-app purchases unless the app is categorized as a game, indicating a clear distinction in how Microsoft handles revenue sharing between games and other types of applications.

Additional Costs​

Besides the revenue share, developers may incur other costs when publishing on Xbox:

• Development kit fees
• Certification and testing fees
• Marketing and promotion costs

Comparison to Other Platforms​

Microsoft's 30% cut for Xbox games is in line with industry standards. Other major platforms like PlayStation and Nintendo also typically take a 30% share of game sales revenue.While Microsoft has reduced its fee for PC games, the standard 30% rate remains in place for Xbox console games as of 2024. Developers should factor this revenue split into their financial planning when bringing games to the Xbox platform.

I'll add to this by stating that "Certification and testing fees" applies to updates as well. So back in the XBox 1/PS4 era where everyone was courting indie devs, some developers bowed out cause they couldn't see a future where every patch required re-certification!

 

[jinnj]

Imagine if they had asked for 30% of iTunes sales on Windows in 2003.

If 2003 Apple had to deal with companies that operated like 2024 Apple they wouldn't exist anymore.

Except they did on their Zune player.

 

[bsolar]

Except they did on their Zune player.

Giving Zune and their fees' requirements the middle finger would have meant renouncing to reach a market share in the single digits. Giving Apple the middle finger is a very different story.

 

[brofkand]

It's absolutely relevant. I would know I'm a developer.

And we're talking Xbox here, you can't just get any Xbox game wherever you want. Sony and Nintendo charge 30% too.

I can buy an Xbox game from the Xbox store on the console, from Best Buy or any other retailer, or used.

Where can I buy an iPhone app or in-app purchase, except the Apple App store?

The two are in no way comparable. One is actually competitive, the other is a walled garden that serves nobody except Apple.

 

[Ethosik]

I can buy an Xbox game from the Xbox store on the console, from Best Buy or any other retailer, or used.

Where can I buy an iPhone app or in-app purchase, except the Apple App store?

The two are in no way comparable. One is actually competitive, the other is a walled garden that serves nobody except Apple.

From a development perspective, they are comparable. Even if you sell physical copies at Best Buy, you still need to pay Microsoft for the platform fee.

 

[chrono1081]

I can buy an Xbox game from the Xbox store on the console, from Best Buy or any other retailer, or used.

Where can I buy an iPhone app or in-app purchase, except the Apple App store?

The two are in no way comparable. One is actually competitive, the other is a walled garden that serves nobody except Apple.

You're not understanding the situation at all. You have to pay Microsoft 30% to develop on Xbox, period. It's literally in their terms (someone actually linked it here earlier). It even tells you to budget that 30%.

 

[brofkand]

You're not understanding the situation at all. You have to pay Microsoft 30% to develop on Xbox, period. It's literally in their terms (someone actually linked it here earlier). It even tells you to budget that 30%.

That is a different issue than the commission they charge for the Store. Thats what I thought someone was originally talking about - the store commission. Not the cost to develop on the platform.

 

[Hobbes42]

Apple's rent seeking behavior has to stop.

For real. It’s not a good look.

I wonder if anyone at the executive level has the self-awareness to realize this.

The perception of Apple being a nickel-and-diming trillion dollar company isn’t a good one.

 

[Naraxus]

So Microsoft, just like Spotify and Epic and others, want Apple to provide their platform for free and if Apple says no then they go and whine like my five year old to the playground monitor that "They're not fair!" or "Becuz monopoly!!" Give me break. I really wish Cook would finally balls up and tell them and the EU to go pound sand.

 

[HMI]

So, release it on the Microsoft App Store, and prove your dominance.

 

[Hobbes42]

How else do you expect them to be able to afford to rehash almost the exact same iPhone design for 5 years in a row!?!? The same basic iPad Pro design for 7 years?

Well said! It legit seems like Jonny Ive was the only person at Apple who was interested in designing hardware.

**** is stale af these days. Maybe the entire company was allocated to the Vision Pro, neglecting every other product as far as industrial design goes.

Back in the good old days the iPhone would completely change its look every 2 years. That was fun.

 

[mikerahl]

Do you and others seriously not know what it costs to host an App Store with all the features apples App Store has? Why isn't anyone going after Google or Steam that charge the *exact* same amount? 30% is actually incredibly reasonable if you knew what people paid in the past. (It was around 95% by the way to a publisher, sometimes even higher).

Want to know who else charges 30%? Microsoft. For Xbox games.

And no one is proposing Apple should not be compensated. IF someone uses their app store. What they're saying is, like with Mac OS, Windows, etc., if one chooses NOT to use the app store (and Apple should be compelled to allow that option), Apple isn't doing anything (their OS is basically an extension of Free BSD) and Apple should not be compensated, anymore than I should have to pay Ubuntu if I want to install software on Linux.

 

[Naraxus]

I just don't think any company should be allowed, under any circumstances, to control what ones does with hardware they own.

I consider it a market failure and it shouldn't be legal.

This has been explained countless times before, but you can do whatever you want to with that hardware.

What you really seem to want is to be able to controll the software which, again has been explained before, is something you can not do and knew full well you couldn't do when you bought the phone.

 

[brofkand]

For real. It’s not a good look.

I wonder if anyone at the executive level has the self-awareness to realize this.

The perception of Apple being a nickel-and-diming trillion dollar company isn’t a good one.

They see their hardware sales flatlining, so their best bet at increased revenue is services income. Nobody wants their bleeding heart TV, news, etc., services (every time I go to best buy, they staple another 3-month trial on my receipt for them). So they shakedown their customers for extra iCloud storage (most normal people I know have no idea how to stop the popups except to pay which is embarrassing) and ratchet up the rent-seeking on the App Store.

 

[Rogifan]

The first and only real answer is because that's the way Apple chooses to do business. If their customers don't like it, then Apple is punished in the marketplace.

(and, Netflix and Spotify don't sell subscriptions in their IOS App).

I know Netflix and Spotify don’t sell subs in their app. Because Apple allows them to have an app in the store that only functions once you log in (and doesn’t offer sign-up in-app). I remember the Hey app where they were forced to offer some basic functionality for free in order to be in the App Store without offering IAP. Apple’s rules aren’t consistent. They let Netflix and Spotify do things others can’t because they need those apps in the store.

 

[Rogifan]

I have read the article. Thanks. If MS or any customers don't like how Apple operates, if there is a priority on cloud gaming for a segment of Apple's customers, Apple will suffer in the marketplace. Again, this is the only real mechanism that works.

But, IF there is not significant demand for Apple to change from Apple's customers, then Apple will not suffer. Either way, there's no other fix for this.

*And you seriously think that Microsoft has no financial interest in this issue?

Apple already allows apps that serve up digital content to exist in the store without offering IAP. There is no rational for why Spotify and Netflix can do this but Microsoft can. And Phil Schiller wouldn’t be able to provide one because there isn’t one.