Microsoft Says Its New Surface Book 2 is Twice as Powerful as Latest MacBook Pro

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Oct 17, 2017.

  1. xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #926
    I agree! Windows might be irritating at times, and I find Windows 10 less stable for me. However, I do this all day long where people want my recommendations on what systems to get. Sometimes I mention Windows PCs, sometimes I mention Macs, and sometimes I mention Chromebooks.

    Dell's generally have the best hardware on the Windows side. I have never had good experiences with anyone else - including Microsoft's Surface line. I have had the occasional issue with Dell systems, but nothing as bad as other manufacturers.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 24, 2017 ---
    Well yeah. It would be highly unprofessional of me not to have adapters. Not every computer in the world has a SD card reader, what if I have a client that brings their equipment and I need to put in an SD card in their computer that has no SD card reader?

    And as I said, dozens of adapters are in my laptop bag not adding pounds of weight of make my laptop bag horribly bulky. I also have ethernet, HDMI, DisplayPort to USB-C cables in my bag too.
     
  2. Jack Burton macrumors 6502

    Jack Burton

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    #927
    Sounds remarkably like an old Mac commercial:

     
  3. ocnitsa macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    #928
    I humbly apologize. I assumed that NVIDIA cards could be used for other applications besides just games. I was unaware that if you turned on a computer and used Word or any non-gaming app, the computer would black screen. I now know it was wrong to think you could edit movies with an NVIDIA card. I also didn't realize that only gaming systems are appropriate for games and/or NVIDIA cards. I'm grateful for the instruction. I didn't realize that what YOU use your computer for is what everyone else uses it for. I'm so, so sorry.

    Also, this debate is rendered moot by the move to Thunderbolt 3, affordable eGPU enclosures, and support for eGPU in Mac. So, whatever, brah! :D
     
  4. Jack Burton macrumors 6502

    Jack Burton

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    #929
    Not yet.

    Mac OS High Sierra nVidia eGPUs are a non-starter right now. Sierra requires some work (but at least one can get it working!) and they are advising people who need eGPU to not upgrade. Hopefully they will fix it by spring 2018, but right now it is a colossal mess. It's classic Apple software promises: support is coming... hopefully, one day, maybe.

    The drivers are there. The people over at egpu.io in this thread document the issues. If I'm understanding all of the talk about kext files and drivers, they say it's an Apple issue, not an nVidia issue. Nvidia would love to get everything working so they can sell a lot more hardware to Mac users.

    I hope to see that eGPUs become straight forward to plug in and just work like things on the Mac should. This is the stuff I criticize windows for: hardware and driver issues that suck away time like a vampire sucks blood. Even Mac eGPU setups with AMD cards have issues. You have to pick hardware configs very carefully. If I wanted to deal with that headache I'd build a PC again, except I remember my PC build going smoother than what people are saying in the forum on egpu.io.

    I'd use a couple of nVidia cards right now for rendering on this new iMac and be in heaven.
     
  5. xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #930
    And? The same can be said about AMD GPUs. We get our Macs to perform work and not play games, so the people complaining that it is not as good as a GTX 1050 for gaming.

    It cannot work only one way. You need NVIDIA for other stuff, I need AMD GPUs for my stuff. It is a shame we cannot have both choices to make both sides happy. But it has been know for a very long time now that AMD and Apple go together.

    And if you do heavy 3D work you are probably looking at the Quadro video cards which are not that good for gaming too.
     
  6. Compote, Oct 24, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017

    Compote macrumors regular

    Compote

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    #931
    So... I updated recently to Fall Creators Update.
    My newly acquired BeatsX disconnect from my iphone/ipad whenever my Windows laptop is on (because the windows laptop has made it a rule that since I paired the Beats X once, the headphones are his and his only). NO other device at my place disrupts my bluetooth headphones experience... but the Windows PC.

    Turns out the connection with the beats X is jumpy on the PC, by the way. Unusable. What a surprise. It's OK if I pair it over again every 3 hours, so I guess the Windows crowd will call it "not an issue", cause you know, you can waste time sorting out windows ****. That's part of the Windows fun, right ?

    There is no such issue on my Samsung TV, nor on my phones or tablets, just on the one windows PC.

    So I wanted to shut the PC's bluethooth down. You know, so it would let me listen to music on my phone. I had to deal with Windows' stupidity. Selected the bluetooth icon, and accidentally erased the icon from the quick access task bar... Because ****ing windows skipped a beat or something and the icon self-deleted.

    So I type "Bluetooth" into Cortana, right ? Cortana ****s up. Cortana won't let me type a U inside it. For reasons, no doubt. If you hold a key while typing inside the Cortana bar, fun fact, the bar will shut down. Why.

    BTW all the privacy settings have been put back on default since the update, so I discovered that Cortana has been listening in on me for weeks although I made it clear several times I wanted the option OFF. Nice.

    It's a rabbit hole. It starts with something annoying, and you look it up and try to solve it and the mess unfurls.

    Windows is pure ****. Has always been, will always be.
    I need it only for work but I swear the PC would fly out the window (get it) if I could only get rid of it.

    If not for work, I would never touch a piece of **** PC again.

    EDIT : Mark me, I didn't have a problem with USING Windows, the EXISTENCE of a nearby PC RUINED my experience with using OTHER NON WINDOWS devices. That is how FORKED UP Windows is.
     
  7. PowerMac G4 MDD macrumors 68000

    PowerMac G4 MDD

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Location:
    At the intersection of Conch and Coral.
    #932

    Yeah, that's how I felt xD
    --- Post Merged, Oct 24, 2017 ---
    I actually use a cheap little ASUS (running Linux, because Windows' background processes were hogging the CPU), for basic on-the-go tasks. I usually recommend Chrome-book like laptops to those who are mainly desktop users, as it wouldn't be worth having such a powerful laptop if it's not used at home.

    That being said, The 2016/2017 MacBook Pro is perfect within a desktop setup; and, on-the-go, what is one really going to be doing with it? If you're worried about desktop-level productivity whilst you aren't even home, buy one of those 3-inch-thick, 9-pound monster laptops with 17" screen. You'd get so much done on a lawnmower with mobile GTX 9xx/10xx card. When you get home, you can make use of all of those ports... because you have to.

    Again, one port can do it all for someone needing a desktop setup with which a laptop is integrated. Two, if you want storage. And, if you rely on tons of USB devices and such, bite the bullet and get a hub. I've even had to use hubs on desktop computers. If it's integrated well with the setup, it shouldn't matter.

    I know of a producer who daisy-chains roughly 20TB of storage, through USB-C, and it's all connected to his MacBook Pro. The same goes with his display and hub. Takes THREE measly cables to do all of that.



    BTW, I have had experience with a Nikon D80. Of course, in those days, it would have been stupid to not have an SD card slot. Sooner or later, cameras will have USB-C ports on them for fast transfer. SD card transfer speeds aren't super hot anyhow.
     
  8. Strelok macrumors 6502a

    Strelok

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Location:
    United States
    #933
    Nvidia is better than AMD in almost all aspects, the only issue is they cost more. I honestly wish Apple went with Nvidia in at least their laptops, since Nvidia cards are much more efficient than AMD cards right now. In a desktop? Meh, throw whatever you want in there since power consumption isn't as important. Apple used the 750Ti in the 2012 or 2013 MBPr, so it all comes down to pricing.
     
  9. xWhiplash, Oct 25, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017

    xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #934
    Not necessarily. My Radeon 7950 beats my GTX 980 in FCPX. So I stick with AMD.

    Look at the FCPX benchmarks here (and that is with a 1080 Ti) - http://barefeats.com/imac5K_vs_pros.html

    Also, the upcoming Vega 64 in the iMac Pro is very close to the 1080 Ti on this test where the iMac 2017 Radeon 580 was a little farther behind: http://barefeats.com/vega_resolve.html

    Again, it sucks there is no choice. It has been clear for a while now that we will not be seeing NVIDIA in our Macs. So get a Windows PC if you need it, or hopefully we will see better eGPU support now that Apple is pushing that.

    There are some tasks that I need to use CUDA for, that is why I have a Windows PC along with my iMac 2017.
     
  10. Strelok macrumors 6502a

    Strelok

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Location:
    United States
    #935
    Ahh ok, fair enough. Nvidia also cut down any compute tasks on all but their Quadro cards since I think the 900 series. Then again, I’m assuming if Apple worked together with Nvidia they could incorporate CUDA support in their software. Or, AMD could just make more power efficient cards :)!
     
  11. SarcasticJoe, Oct 27, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017

    SarcasticJoe macrumors 6502a

    SarcasticJoe

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Location:
    Finland
    #936
    Did you even read what I wrote at all? Because I never even mentioned OSX/iOS and specifically spoke about how banks use Linux and mainframes in the backend (mentioning IBM's mainframe OS by name) and Windows for their employee terminals.

    Where the hell did you get that I said financial services are using OSX when I didn't even mention the OS in the whole post. You're the second person to have read that post and start going on about how I'm wrong about banks using OSX even thou I made no mention of it.

    Financial services are however a somewhat different beast seeing how in the U.S at least data is commonly transfered from organization to organization on excel sheets sent via email. In terms of requirements on transaction rates, correctness, logging, accountability actual banks, not people who manage your company pensions accounts, are on a whole different level. From the level of incompetence with data and downright stupidity that I've seen the financial services industry is nothing like the gold standard for data processing that banks are.
     
  12. curtvaughan macrumors 6502a

    curtvaughan

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2016
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    #937
    Only when I'm playing banjo and doing bluegrass stuff! I first got into computers in 1973 as a student after getting out of the service. It eventually became a career from which I retired 10 years ago (yeah, I'm getting old). Anyway, with computers and other tech gadgetry (like mobile phones), I tend to judge a product as a price point balance between convenience, functionality, and cost. Aesthetics are in there to some degree - Apple seems to value that over everything else - but aren't really a significant concern with me. I always valued the speed of mainframes, the stability of servers, and the functionality of laptops and desktops when I was a work slave. I love beautiful hardware, more for its function than its looks - but that comes from a background in working in and around machine rooms, behind the scenes, often with weird hours - just to make sure things worked smoothly. Felt I might want to finally respond to your compliment :).
     
  13. Jodiuh macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    #938
    The 1060 model goes for $2500 so it’s 7920HQ vs 8650U…which runs 1 Ghz slower. They both have four cores. That’s not 2x faster, it’s actually slower!

    Also, my post was meant in jest, I’m not really pissed off, lol!

    The 1060 vs 560 is an entirely different comparison with the Nvidia part being nearly 3x faster.

    I would rather have the 8650U/1060 combo vs the 7920HQ/560 setup in the MBP. I wonder how loud and hot that 1060 will make the SP2 tho.

    They mentioned the CPU and GPU. 7920HQ vs 8650U isn’t 2x as powerful in the 1060 model.
     
  14. chucker23n1 macrumors 68000

    chucker23n1

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    #939
    Those two aren't appreciably different.

    Comparing based on clock speed is meaningless. However, the HQ has an edge on multi-core, and the next generation will likely come with six cores.
     
  15. xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #940
    Not in all tasks. In fact a Radeon 7950 beats the crap out of my GTX 980.

    http://barefeats.com/imac5K_vs_pros.html

    Look at FCPX tests. NVIDIA is significantly slower. I wish there would be a choice for those that want NVIDIA, but with my Mac, AMD smokes any NVIDIA I have used.
     
  16. Jodiuh macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    #941
    Geekbench is a benchmark. It's a quick benchmark where the 8650U will be able to turbo the entire process. If you're doing something CPU intensive where the fan kicks up and it takes awhile, then that 8650U will be running a Ghz slower than the 7920X. This isn't the days of Bloomfield to Sandy Bridge. The IPC of Coffee isn't much of a jump over Kaby. So in this case, clock speed means everything. We also have no idea of the cooling solution in a Surface Book 2, but I highly doubt it's going to be as robust as MBP 15".

    One test. For most tasks and all games, the 1060 will be significantly faster than the 560 in the MBP.
     
  17. xWhiplash, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017

    xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #942
    Did you look at that? There were multiple FCPX tests. I do not play games on macOS my Mac. And guess what? Gaming performance with my Radeon Pro 580 with Bootcamp is VERY GOOD.

    Davinci Resolve is 12 seconds with AMD and 11 seconds with NVIDIA. After Effects render with software was faster with AMD too. OpenCL and Metal was about even with all systems. Motion was about double the frame rate with AMD. In Photoshop, the 2017 iMac with AMD was way faster than the 2010 Mac Pro with GTX 1080. Lightroom was about the same performance too.

    Seriously, we get it. You guys use software that uses CUDA or play games. Not all of us use our Macs like this. I use FCPX, After Effects, Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer on my iMac. People around here treat AMD like you will only get 5 FPS in any game and your computer will be SOOOOOOOOOO SLOW if it does NOT have a NVIDIA GPU.

    I do hope with eGPU now that we will start seeing more NVIDIA eGPU options to cut down on all of these complaints. That and more options would be nice. I need AMD, so I would like Apple to keep AMD internally and people can use NVIDIA as a eGPU.

    Don't get me wrong. I love both AMD and NVIDIA. I specifically purchased the GTX 1080 when it was brand new. I got the Founder's Edition for around $850 and it was definitely worth it! When it comes to iMacs, the thermals are really not suited for heavy duty gaming even if it had a GTX 1080 in it. Same with the laptops. So I consider gaming on my Mac as a secondary "bonus". I do not care if it takes an additional few minutes to render something in Premiere Pro on AMD vs a NVIDIA GPU. I do most of my rendering at night anyway when I am sleeping.
     
  18. Jodiuh macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    #943
    Thanks for posting all that. I see video card and think gaming because it's all I've ever really done. I didn't even know what FCPX meant until I saw it here. I'm sure a lot of others will appreciate the info!
     
  19. xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #944
    It really is a shame there are no NVIDIA option for those that prefer those GPUs. Like I said, hopefully this is changing with eGPU.
     
  20. convergent macrumors 68030

    convergent

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #945
    This is correct. I would prefer not to have any dongles, but VGA is one that I bring, but its a single display dongle that has several different ports on it.
     
  21. MachineShedFred macrumors member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    #946
    Clock speed comparisons have been speculative at best for quite some time now. When Lenovo released the first generation of the X1 carbon, and real work would cause the i7 version to heat up and SpeedStep would throttle back faster than the i5 in the exact same notebook, so the i5 was actually both cheaper and faster for anything that mattered.

    It's all about heat - if you make too much of it and can't get rid of it, you have to get off the gas pedal.
     
  22. convergent macrumors 68030

    convergent

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #947
    How so?
     
  23. 73CortinaV8 macrumors 6502

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    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
  24. star-affinity macrumors 6502a

    star-affinity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    #949
    Yes, that particular feature is handled much better in Windows 10. Most other window management related stuff (Mission Control, app switcher showing apps and not all windows, being able to switch between windows in the frontmost app) I think is better handled in macOS. Well, except that the double-clicking a window in macOS doesn't always behave the same way (zoom to fill entire screen), although it does mostly.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 9, 2017 ---
    Pretty certain it will change. NVIDIA have drivers for their current GPU generation available for macOS which can be used if you have one of the older tower Mac Pro with a PCI Express slot.
     
  25. xWhiplash macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #950
    I just searched, I do not see macOS listed when I look for drivers for my GTX 1080 Ti.
     

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