Microsoft Says New Surface Pro is 1.7× Faster Than iPad Pro With 35% More Battery Life

[AndyMacAndMic]

My math is based on the assumption that the easiest way to determine the number of computer users is to look at mobile numbers. There are some people whose only computers are smart phones and visa versa, but that number seems to be most likely to be real.

2b Android
1b iOS

3b computer users

Now let's do some simple math and determine which type of job is more prevelant. Computer jobs or not computer jobs?

Oh my goodness! You are serious. My original reaction was on Profets remark where he stated that "the majority of people in the world" probably only needed an iPad because (as I understood it) the majority of people are computer illiterates. I commented that he probably did not include the entire world workforce because the outcome probably would be different.

Your comment "Or they realize the people using computers for work aren't the majority of computer users." did actually make no sense to me because it was clearly besides the point of the discussion. My answer to you was therefore not to be taken literally. Sorry If I did not make that clear enough.

It's not about more of group A or more of group B. It was simply about "Will the majority of people in the world" only need an iPad.

Well.. I DIDn't do my math, because in this context it was besides the point. Thanks for your figures though. They probably are accurate and must serve a purpose for something..

 

[Martyimac]

That's fair. When I say Post PC I don't mean it in the context that Apple ever mentioned (honestly can't even remember when or how they said that). But I'm talking about the move to smartphones myself and an extension of that - iPad being ideal for most consumers.

I get it - you having a computer at home; I'm sitting in front of a Mac every day. But it doesn't mean that for most consumers an iPad isn't ideal. I think what I most disagree with is your use of ideal... What is ideal for one is different for another and I have no way to quantify that.

And honestly I agree mostly with the Chromebook too. Not a device that I like, but for what the majority of consumers need, it fits the bill. Sure, as long as their internet connection is up and running. And again, I dis agree mostly with your use of superlatives.

And yes, folks who aren't geeks are exactly who I'm talking about as most consumers. What do they use most? Messaging, camera/photos, email, social, etc. All of which they likely do most of on their smartphone.
[doublepost=1495738299][/doublepost] Sorry but this a duh comment, of course they will use the smartphone instead of their desktop, if the need arises when they are away from home. At home, so far my survey says 34 use their desktop/laptop, 2 use a tablet and one uses a smartphone. That is much different than "All of which the likely do most of on their smartphone".

Ok, let me ask you a question. For most consumers (not us geeks), if they have both a smartphone and a PC (majority likely only have a smartphone anyway), if they were asked to get rid of one device, which do you think they would keep? The smartphone or the PC?
No way I can answer that for everyone.


I do agree, phones are turned over more frequently than PCs, but not at the rate that smartphones are outselling PCs. And there definitely are people who keep their phones for longer period of times than you and I (I buy and sell every year, though in all honestly these devices are reaching the point where they can last for 3-4 years).

But I stand by my opinion, I see it every day. The majority of consumers are using a smartphone all day long. They're attached to them. They've become their primary and preferred method of computing. And if need they need a bigger screen at home, an iPad can be ideal.

And that is where we diverge. My demographic, which I see every day, which is basically retired folks, tend to use the home PC, not the idevice. Basically, what you see, and what I see are at opposite ends of the spectrum based purely on our posts here.

I hope you don't mind my responding this way, just made it a little easier to respond to the individual questions. I can rewrite it if this doesn't work for you.

 

[Michael Goff]

Oh my goodness! You are serious. My original reaction was on Profets remark where he stated that "the majority of people in the world" probably only needed an iPad because (as I understood it) the majority of people are computer illiterates. I commented that he probably did not include the entire world workforce because then the outcome probably would be different.

Your comment "Or they realize the people using computers for work aren't the majority of computer users." did actually make no sense to me because it was clearly besides the point of the discussion.
We where not trying to determine the number of computer users at all! My response to you "did your do your math?" was not to be taken literally. But thanks for your figures though. They are probably very accurate
Well.. I DIDn't do my math, because in this context it was besides the point.

Oh. Sorry. >>

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Oh. Sorry. >>

Me sorry too

 

[profets]

And that is where we diverge. My demographic, which I see every day, which is basically retired folks, tend to use the home PC, not the idevice. Basically, what you see, and what I see are at opposite ends of the spectrum based purely on our posts here.

I hope you don't mind my responding this way, just made it a little easier to respond to the individual questions. I can rewrite it if this doesn't work for you.

Nah, don't mind at all. Consumers that I support in their 60s I see using PCs still. But literally everything they do on a PC they could be doing on an iPad instead. Many of slowly moved to an iPad full time. Others, much older like into their 80s have never used traditional PCs and had trouble at times when trying to understand or even grasp the concept, but have been quite happy using iPads.

Anyway, we can likely go on forever about this, lol. Thanks for the collegial debate

Cheers

Oh. Sorry. >>

Me sorry too

LOL!

 

[Martyimac]

[Q]Anyway, we can likely go on forever about this, lol. Thanks for the collegial debate [Q/]

Thank YOU! It was quite refreshing to enter a debate that stayed civil throughout!

 

[Altis]

Nah, don't mind at all. Consumers that I support in their 60s I see using PCs still. But literally everything they do on a PC they could be doing on an iPad instead. Many of slowly moved to an iPad full time. Others, much older like into their 80s have never used traditional PCs and had trouble at times when trying to understand or even grasp the concept, but have been quite happy using iPads...

The ergonomics tend to get rather poor to be ideal for people in their golden years.

Having to hold the device and look down at a small screen with an OS that has generally low contrast isn't exactly a great setup for an aging body.

It doesn't help that iOS seems to have gotten more complicated to figure out over the past few years as they've added features and changed things.

 

[profets]

The ergonomics tend to get rather poor to be ideal for people in their golden years.

Having to hold the device and look down at a small screen with an OS that has generally low contrast isn't exactly a great setup for an aging body.

As opposed to a desktop with a keyboard and mouse? Whenever I see older folk use them, they have it on a stand of some sort at a table, or on their lap on a couch.

It doesn't help that iOS seems to have gotten more complicated to figure out over the past few years as they've added features and changed things.

The nice thing is, even with more advanced features slowly coming to iPad, it's still as simple to use as iOS was on day one. Press home button to get home, tap an app on the home screen to use that app.

 

[Altis]

As opposed to a desktop with a keyboard and mouse? Whenever I see older folk use them, they have it on a stand of some sort at a table, or on their lap on a couch.

The looking down is hard on the neck/back and the small screen with low contrast OS is hard on the eyes.

Having to hold the device isn't good for someone with arthritis or any kind of hand/joint issue. Having to tap small buttons (nearly always with no clear boundary) can be difficult, whereas a mouse scales the motion (variably) and lets you use your arm.

At least with a desktop, you can just sit and look at it without any issue.

The nice thing is, even with more advanced features slowly coming to iPad, it's still as simple to use as iOS was on day one. Press home button to get home, tap an app on the home screen to use that app.

Sure, some of it is the same. But changing to tap-to-unlock, can't get photos off the device without using iPhoto, "live photos" on by default, Apple Music/iCloud, etc, all means more inquiries from the folks/folks-in-law these days even though they've had iPhones for a while. All they want to do is browse the web, iMessage/Facetime, email, and some music.

Even sending messages in iMessage is tricky now when they have no idea why it's stuck in drawing-mode or the GIFs thing, or accidentally send audio messages since it's the same button as send.

 

[profets]

The looking down is hard on the neck/back and the small screen with low contrast OS is hard on the eyes.

Having to hold the device isn't good for someone with arthritis or any kind of hand/joint issue. Having to tap small buttons (nearly always with no clear boundary) can be difficult, whereas a mouse scales the motion (variably) and lets you use your arm.

At least with a desktop, you can just sit and look at it without any issue.



Sure, some of it is the same. But changing to tap-to-unlock, can't get photos off the device without using iPhoto, "live photos" on by default, Apple Music/iCloud, etc, all means more inquiries from the folks/folks-in-law these days even though they've had iPhones for a while. All they want to do is browse the web, iMessage/Facetime, email, and some music.

Even sending messages in iMessage is tricky now when they have no idea why it's stuck in drawing-mode or the GIFs thing, or accidentally send audio messages since it's the same button as send.

Sorry, but I disagree. With arthritis or other issues, taping a large icon on an iPad is going to be much easier than clicking on very small targets with a mouse.

Besides, these have been people who have tried to use a computer and simply don't understand what's happening, whereas on an iPad they unlock and are presented with a grid of apps to choose from. Press home button and go back to the list of apps. Windows, nor MacOS will ever be that simple for them.

The unlock behaviour in iOS 10 is a good example of change that took some learning. But no where near close to the kind of changes that happened from Windows 7, to 8 and then to 10. Want to talk about non-tech savvy users getting confused with OS upgrades? I've spent my share of hours trying to support that nonsense already.

 

[Altis]

Sorry, but I disagree. With arthritis or other issues, taping a large icon on an iPad is going to be much easier than clicking on very small targets with a mouse.

Besides, these have been people who have tried to use a computer and simply don't understand what's happening, whereas on an iPad they unlock and are presented with a grid of apps to choose from. Press home button and go back to the list of apps. Windows, nor MacOS will ever be that simple for them.

The unlock behaviour in iOS 10 is a good example of change that took some learning. But no where near close to the kind of changes that happened from Windows 7, to 8 and then to 10. Want to talk about non-tech savvy users getting confused with OS upgrades? I've spent my share of hours trying to support that nonsense already.

A lot of the buttons/elements you need to touch in iOS are very small and have no visible boundary, and it's underneath your finger.

With a desktop, you can have the size of everything set to massive, set the pointer to larger, and scale the mouse to move gradually. You don't have to look down at a 10" screen that you have to hold with one hand and interact with the other. You can even get a keyboard with giant keys/legends.

iPads/tablets are great for some things, but ergonomically they aren't ideal for any length of time-- and laptops aren't generally much better.

It's often said that "sitting is the new smoking"... I think extended phone/tablet usage will be the new sitting.

 

[koruki]

A little faster, a bit more battery life, but 1000% more practical. That is all

 

[44267547]

Meanwhile at Apple.

And this has what relevance? This contributes nothing and proves nothing by posting an exacerbated photo of Schiller.

 

[itguy06]

But wouldn't you rather be able to completely remove the keyboard? I don't see how that is a bad thing.

No. I never use a tablet as a tablet, even when I had an iPad. I guess I'm so used to the laptop form factor and don't particularly like typing on glass that I want a keyboard. The first thing I bought for my iPad was a keyboard case.

 

[Fabmac]

I had an iPad as a workhorse when I was not in the office, it works, it is pain. It is less time effective.
So iOS will not replace a computer.

About the surface it's a nice try, it works quite well, but it's not a perfect tablet.
On the other side it's not OS X, I do use windows 10 at work (I use my Air now quite often)
It's just windows at the end of the day it's the same crappy, goes slow over the time os so, not for me.

 

[convergent]

Well I'm putting my money where my mouth is... just pre-ordered one. I bought the Surface Pro 4 about a month ago and kept it for the 30 day period and returned it a couple days before the announcement to see what was coming. I love the form factor so will be now waiting for it to be available on 6/15.

 

[Aftashock617]

Intel should be getting the shakes right now if their i7 cpu is only 1.7 times faster than an Apple in-house designed A9 processor optimized for a tablet. Also... wonder how graphics performance compares?

Why should intel worry? We don't even know the gains Apple has made with their next chip. It might be a reason the next iPad Pro has not been released. Apple may be working out the kinks of the next chipset to make gains that may not be favorable to either performance gains or battery life.

 

[skaertus]

A lot of the buttons/elements you need to touch in iOS are very small and have no visible boundary, and it's underneath your finger.

With a desktop, you can have the size of everything set to massive, set the pointer to larger, and scale the mouse to move gradually. You don't have to look down at a 10" screen that you have to hold with one hand and interact with the other. You can even get a keyboard with giant keys/legends.

iPads/tablets are great for some things, but ergonomically they aren't ideal for any length of time-- and laptops aren't generally much better.

It's often said that "sitting is the new smoking"... I think extended phone/tablet usage will be the new sitting.

Yes. There was a time when all computers were desktops, and it was comfortable to use. Then most computers became laptops, and they were less comfortable and ergonomic. And now there are lots of smartphones, iPads and even smaller laptops. None of them is really comfortable. I guess the Surface Pro should be OK with its 12.3-inch screen, but it is still small.

 

[alexgowers]

I like how something that isn't even on the market yet you are an expert on. Also, this whole thread is talking about the Surface Pro which comes with Windows 10 Professional, not Windows 10 S.

There is nothing professional about windows 10, built in candy crush and other BS + advert and MASSIVE data collection.

S**T

Full Telemetry on Windows 10
The full Telemetry listing includes information on the basic level, as it is included, and information on data that is only collected if full is enabled. The format is better, as it is less technical in nature.

• Header information: OS name, version, build and locale, User ID, Xbox UserID, Environment (e.g. application ID), diagnostic event name, HTTP header information, device ID (unique), device class, event collection time, diagnostic level.
• Device, Connectivity, and configuration data:
  • Device properties: OS, installation type, processor, memory, storage, firmware and battery information, OEM details, hardware chassis type, color and form factor, virtual machine.
  • Device capabilities: information about camera, touch and process capabilities, TPM, virtualization hardware, voice, number of displays, DPI and resolution, wireless capabilities, OEM information, advanced camera capture mode.
  • Device preferences: User settings, user-provided decice name, domain or cloud joined, domain name hash, MDM settings, Bitlocker, Secure Boot and encryption settings, Windows Update, default app and browser choices, default language settings, app store update settings, Enterprise and commercial ID.
  • Device peripherals: information on connected peripherals including names, models, manufacturers, drivers.
  • Device network info: Networking information including available SSIDs and BSSIDs, connectivity status, proxy, DHCP and other details, IP address type, hashed IP address, data transfer rates, IMEI or MCCO, and more.
• Product and Service usage:
  • App usage: Usage statistics, content searches within app, reading activity, user navigation and interaction with app and Windows features, time of and count of app and compoinent launches, duration, user interaction methods and duration.
  • App or product state: Start menu and taskbar pins, app launch state, personalization impressions delivered, user interaction with UI controls or hotspots, User feedback, caret location or position within documents and media files.
  • Login properties: Login success, failure, sessions and state.
• Product and Service data:
  • Device health and crash data: information about device and software health including crash and hang dumps, system settings, error codes and messages, user generated files, details about abnormal shutdowns, hangs or crashes, crash failure data.
  • Device performance and reliability data: performance information, including user interface interaction duration, on/off performance, user input responsiveness, disk footprint, power and battery live, service responsiveness.
• Software Setup and Inventory data:
  • Installed applications and install history: Names, IDs, package family names, publisher, type of software, install date, method, install directory, installation type, more.
  • Device update information: Update readiness analysis, number of applicable updates, downlad size and source, Windows Update machine ID, Update Server and service URL, and more.
• Content Consumption data:
  • Movies: Technical video information, e.g. height or width, encoding, stream instructions, if there is an error, URL for a specific two second chunk of content.
  • Music & TV: Service URL for song being downloaded, content type, local media library collection statistics, region mismatch.
  • Reading: App accessing content and status, and options used to open a Windows Store Book, language of book, time spent reading, content type and size.
  • Photos App: File source data, image & video resolution.
• Browsing, Search and Query data:
  • Microsoft browser data: Text typed in address bar and search box, selected for Ask Cortana Search, browser ID, URLs, page title, auto-completed text, service response time.
  • On-device file query: kind of query, number of items requested and retrieved, file extension of search result user interacted with, launched item kind, name of process, hash of search scope, state of indices.
• Inking Typing and Speech Utterance data:
  • Voice, inking and typing: Type of pen used, pen gestures, palm touch coordinates, input latency, ink strokes written, text of speech recognition results, APP ID, language information.
• Licensing and Purchase data:
  • Purchase history: Product and Edition ID, product URI, offer details, date and time, purchase quantity and price, payment type.
  • DRM and license rights details, license type, usage session.

 

[convergent]

There is nothing professional about windows 10, built in candy crush and other BS + advert and MASSIVE data collection.

S**T

Full Telemetry on Windows 10
The full Telemetry listing includes information on the basic level, as it is included, and information on data that is only collected if full is enabled. The format is better, as it is less technical in nature.

• Header information: OS name, version, build and locale, User ID, Xbox UserID, Environment (e.g. application ID), diagnostic event name, HTTP header information, device ID (unique), device class, event collection time, diagnostic level.
• Device, Connectivity, and configuration data:
  • Device properties: OS, installation type, processor, memory, storage, firmware and battery information, OEM details, hardware chassis type, color and form factor, virtual machine.
  • Device capabilities: information about camera, touch and process capabilities, TPM, virtualization hardware, voice, number of displays, DPI and resolution, wireless capabilities, OEM information, advanced camera capture mode.
  • Device preferences: User settings, user-provided decice name, domain or cloud joined, domain name hash, MDM settings, Bitlocker, Secure Boot and encryption settings, Windows Update, default app and browser choices, default language settings, app store update settings, Enterprise and commercial ID.
  • Device peripherals: information on connected peripherals including names, models, manufacturers, drivers.
  • Device network info: Networking information including available SSIDs and BSSIDs, connectivity status, proxy, DHCP and other details, IP address type, hashed IP address, data transfer rates, IMEI or MCCO, and more.
• Product and Service usage:
  • App usage: Usage statistics, content searches within app, reading activity, user navigation and interaction with app and Windows features, time of and count of app and compoinent launches, duration, user interaction methods and duration.
  • App or product state: Start menu and taskbar pins, app launch state, personalization impressions delivered, user interaction with UI controls or hotspots, User feedback, caret location or position within documents and media files.
  • Login properties: Login success, failure, sessions and state.
• Product and Service data:
  • Device health and crash data: information about device and software health including crash and hang dumps, system settings, error codes and messages, user generated files, details about abnormal shutdowns, hangs or crashes, crash failure data.
  • Device performance and reliability data: performance information, including user interface interaction duration, on/off performance, user input responsiveness, disk footprint, power and battery live, service responsiveness.
• Software Setup and Inventory data:
  • Installed applications and install history: Names, IDs, package family names, publisher, type of software, install date, method, install directory, installation type, more.
  • Device update information: Update readiness analysis, number of applicable updates, downlad size and source, Windows Update machine ID, Update Server and service URL, and more.
• Content Consumption data:
  • Movies: Technical video information, e.g. height or width, encoding, stream instructions, if there is an error, URL for a specific two second chunk of content.
  • Music & TV: Service URL for song being downloaded, content type, local media library collection statistics, region mismatch.
  • Reading: App accessing content and status, and options used to open a Windows Store Book, language of book, time spent reading, content type and size.
  • Photos App: File source data, image & video resolution.
• Browsing, Search and Query data:
  • Microsoft browser data: Text typed in address bar and search box, selected for Ask Cortana Search, browser ID, URLs, page title, auto-completed text, service response time.
  • On-device file query: kind of query, number of items requested and retrieved, file extension of search result user interacted with, launched item kind, name of process, hash of search scope, state of indices.
• Inking Typing and Speech Utterance data:
  • Voice, inking and typing: Type of pen used, pen gestures, palm touch coordinates, input latency, ink strokes written, text of speech recognition results, APP ID, language information.
• Licensing and Purchase data:
  • Purchase history: Product and Edition ID, product URI, offer details, date and time, purchase quantity and price, payment type.
  • DRM and license rights details, license type, usage session.

If you don't believe Apple collects similar information, you are delusional. The screen you posted allows you to turn them off... you understand that right?

Candy Crush is preinstalled... oh wow, I can remove it with one click. Lets look at what Mac's come with ... Garage Band - that's a real "pro" application! What about Numbers and Pages? What's the marketshare on those for pro use? Or what's the marketshare of Windows vs. MacOS for pro use for that matter?

Both Windows 10 and MacOS are great platforms and work equally well for work or pleasure. Its ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Its great that there is competition and we have choice.

 

[skaertus]

There is nothing professional about windows 10, built in candy crush and other BS + advert and MASSIVE data collection.

S**T

Full Telemetry on Windows 10
The full Telemetry listing includes information on the basic level, as it is included, and information on data that is only collected if full is enabled. The format is better, as it is less technical in nature.

• Header information: OS name, version, build and locale, User ID, Xbox UserID, Environment (e.g. application ID), diagnostic event name, HTTP header information, device ID (unique), device class, event collection time, diagnostic level.
• Device, Connectivity, and configuration data:
  • Device properties: OS, installation type, processor, memory, storage, firmware and battery information, OEM details, hardware chassis type, color and form factor, virtual machine.
  • Device capabilities: information about camera, touch and process capabilities, TPM, virtualization hardware, voice, number of displays, DPI and resolution, wireless capabilities, OEM information, advanced camera capture mode.
  • Device preferences: User settings, user-provided decice name, domain or cloud joined, domain name hash, MDM settings, Bitlocker, Secure Boot and encryption settings, Windows Update, default app and browser choices, default language settings, app store update settings, Enterprise and commercial ID.
  • Device peripherals: information on connected peripherals including names, models, manufacturers, drivers.
  • Device network info: Networking information including available SSIDs and BSSIDs, connectivity status, proxy, DHCP and other details, IP address type, hashed IP address, data transfer rates, IMEI or MCCO, and more.
• Product and Service usage:
  • App usage: Usage statistics, content searches within app, reading activity, user navigation and interaction with app and Windows features, time of and count of app and compoinent launches, duration, user interaction methods and duration.
  • App or product state: Start menu and taskbar pins, app launch state, personalization impressions delivered, user interaction with UI controls or hotspots, User feedback, caret location or position within documents and media files.
  • Login properties: Login success, failure, sessions and state.
• Product and Service data:
  • Device health and crash data: information about device and software health including crash and hang dumps, system settings, error codes and messages, user generated files, details about abnormal shutdowns, hangs or crashes, crash failure data.
  • Device performance and reliability data: performance information, including user interface interaction duration, on/off performance, user input responsiveness, disk footprint, power and battery live, service responsiveness.
• Software Setup and Inventory data:
  • Installed applications and install history: Names, IDs, package family names, publisher, type of software, install date, method, install directory, installation type, more.
  • Device update information: Update readiness analysis, number of applicable updates, downlad size and source, Windows Update machine ID, Update Server and service URL, and more.
• Content Consumption data:
  • Movies: Technical video information, e.g. height or width, encoding, stream instructions, if there is an error, URL for a specific two second chunk of content.
  • Music & TV: Service URL for song being downloaded, content type, local media library collection statistics, region mismatch.
  • Reading: App accessing content and status, and options used to open a Windows Store Book, language of book, time spent reading, content type and size.
  • Photos App: File source data, image & video resolution.
• Browsing, Search and Query data:
  • Microsoft browser data: Text typed in address bar and search box, selected for Ask Cortana Search, browser ID, URLs, page title, auto-completed text, service response time.
  • On-device file query: kind of query, number of items requested and retrieved, file extension of search result user interacted with, launched item kind, name of process, hash of search scope, state of indices.
• Inking Typing and Speech Utterance data:
  • Voice, inking and typing: Type of pen used, pen gestures, palm touch coordinates, input latency, ink strokes written, text of speech recognition results, APP ID, language information.
• Licensing and Purchase data:
  • Purchase history: Product and Edition ID, product URI, offer details, date and time, purchase quantity and price, payment type.
  • DRM and license rights details, license type, usage session.

I really do not care if Windows collects my data. I guess at this point every company in the world collects my data. Microsoft does that, Google certainly does that, and I would be very surprised if Apple did not.

I am doing nothing wrong with my computer so the are no grave consequences of collecting data other than minor annoyances. And quite frankly, companies collecting my data are inevitable at this point. And least I prefer that Microsoft, Google and Apple do it (as they are publicly-held mega-companies and follow strict rules of good governance) then some obscure smaller businesses than can use my data in some unscrupulous manner.

 

[skaertus]

If you don't believe Apple collects similar information, you are delusional. The screen you posted allows you to turn them off... you understand that right?

Candy Crush is preinstalled... oh wow, I can remove it with one click. Lets look at what Mac's come with ... Garage Band - that's a real "pro" application! What about Numbers and Pages? What's the marketshare on those for pro use? Or what's the marketshare of Windows vs. MacOS for pro use for that matter?

Both Windows 10 and MacOS are great platforms and work equally well for work or pleasure. Its ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Its great that there is competition and we have choice.

You are right.

Windows 10 and macOS are both great, and each have its own advantages. Windows may be better for office work and for playing games, macOS may be better for photo or video editing. Or maybe not. But at this point they are both suitable for all kinds of usage. You cannot say one of them is really crap, because it is not.

 

[convergent]

I really do not care if Windows collects my data. I guess at this point every company in the world collects my data. Microsoft does that, Google certainly does that, and I would be very surprised if Apple did not.

I am doing nothing wrong with my computer so the are no grave consequences of collecting data other than minor annoyances. And quite frankly, companies collecting my data are inevitable at this point. And least I prefer that Microsoft, Google and Apple do it (as they are publicly-held mega-companies and follow strict rules of good governance) then some obscure smaller businesses than can use my data in some unscrupulous manner.

True. If you don't trust these companies with your data, you are doomed to working in a very unproductive state in today's systems. The primary reason they would be collecting data is a) to understand how to make the systems better based on usage patterns and bug reports; or b) to gather intelligence to direct more targeted advertising for you. Neither of these are harmful, and to the contrary they can be very helpful. If you are going to see ads, wouldn't you want to see ones that are of interest to you.

I admit it can be creepy sometimes, but its not like some human is setting there snooping... its all algorithms crunching information. The latest "creeper" ad I got this week was that I went into Amazon for something and it popped up pool skimmer baskets. The handle on our skimmer basket just broke and I needed to buy one, but I had not searched on the internet (that I remember) for anything about skimmer baskets. How did it know? LOL... seems creepy, but this kind of thing is actually where our information can be very helpful in the future as they get smarter.

The other big thing to consider is in today's media climate, what would happen if any of these companies misused our data? It would be discovered by someone, and they would get raked over the coals in the media. The big guys - Microsoft, Apple, Google... are not going to take that risk, and they hardly need to. I'd be way more worried about the little no name companies that you unwittingly give data to who may be going deeper than permitted and selling it to the highest bidder.

 

[skaertus]

True. If you don't trust these companies with your data, you are doomed to working in a very unproductive state in today's systems. The primary reason they would be collecting data is a) to understand how to make the systems better based on usage patterns and bug reports; or b) to gather intelligence to direct more targeted advertising for you. Neither of these are harmful, and to the contrary they can be very helpful. If you are going to see ads, wouldn't you want to see ones that are of interest to you.

I admit it can be creepy sometimes, but its not like some human is setting there snooping... its all algorithms crunching information. The latest "creeper" ad I got this week was that I went into Amazon for something and it popped up pool skimmer baskets. The handle on our skimmer basket just broke and I needed to buy one, but I had not searched on the internet (that I remember) for anything about skimmer baskets. How did it know? LOL... seems creepy, but this kind of thing is actually where our information can be very helpful in the future as they get smarter.

The other big thing to consider is in today's media climate, what would happen if any of these companies misused our data? It would be discovered by someone, and they would get raked over the coals in the media. The big guys - Microsoft, Apple, Google... are not going to take that risk, and they hardly need to. I'd be way more worried about the little no name companies that you unwittingly give data to who may be going deeper than permitted and selling it to the highest bidder.

Yes.

I am not exactly worried that a multi-billion dollar company may have access to my credit card or bank account information.

And I do not think these companies will sell my data to third parties. It is just not their business.

 

[convergent]

Yes.

I am not exactly worried that a multi-billion dollar company may have access to my credit card or bank account information.

And I do not think these companies will sell my data to third parties. It is just not their business.

Well the information we are talking about (see the list a few posts back) is nothing like credit card and bank account... its mostly information that is not personal, but just represents usage patterns.