Take a look at this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-pro/overview[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty cool and yea you're right, definitely eliminates the argument Apple has been using.
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Microsoft Says New Surface Pro is 1.7× Faster Than iPad Pro With 35% More Battery Life
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Take a look at this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-pro/overview[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty cool and yea you're right, definitely eliminates the argument Apple has been using.
You can run exactly one instance of some dumbed-down version of office, some dumbed-down version of OneNote and you can watch movies.
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Perhaps because it's not true - I just spent 5 hours working in Excel and I was at 50% battery when I got home.
Fair enough. To me, when you add a keyboard and trackpad to it, you might as well just be using a laptop. Like people want an iPad that has a keyboard, mouse support, and runs macOS (they sell it, it's called a MacBook). It just doesn't make a ton of sense to me, I see compromises. The kickstand part I have never really thought about. I never used one of my iPads (don't currently own one, mainly a software issue) on a desk/table setting, which I am assuming is the most natural place to use a kickstand. I have always used an iPad sitting on the couch, laying in bed, on the deck, things like that. The smart case and keyboard allows you to prop it up when needed though, it works well although expensive.
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What's the "studio mode"? The rest of your point makes perfect sense to me.[/QUOTE]
But the bed and couch are the BEST places to have the kickstand! Oh wait now I see why everyone complains about tablets being heavy, they actually have to hold them up while using them. The kickstand allows various configurations which allow me to hold zero weight, to counterbalance zero weight, to not use my arms/hands at all except to lightly cradle.
You can call it whatever you like, the point still stands, for most people, it is the ideal computer.
iPad is just a bycycle in my opinion.
OK I Fixed my statement.
No. Your point does not stands. How do you know it is a car for most people? You can't claim "the most" unless you have a proof. Are you presenting your opinion as fact? From what I see people around me own and use many devices including an iPad and that may or may not means iPad is a car for most people.
Based on what? Your personal opinion?
For most people I know, it is not the ideal computer.
It will be interesting to see.
Apple has shown most of its cards already. The MacBook and MacBook Pro had a revamp recently and may get only spec bumps. The iPad Pro may get a refresh and even a new form factor. What about the iMac?
I am not sure if I would like the fabric around the keyboard. Am afraid that it is hard to clean up. But otherwise it is a decent windows device. And magnetic connector is really very helpful, I had seen how it saved the mac from falling
Hasn't get a chance to see the Surface Laptop, as usual it is not available in Singapore.
But I would get the Surface Pro/Laptop if I need a Windows device.
Um... "dummy OS without true multi-thread"? iOS is the same core as macOS / OS X. It absolutely is multithreaded. Just because third-party apps cannot choose when to stay active doesn't make it not multithreaded. And apps *CAN* be written in a way that they stay active when not in front.
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I'm hoping to see an "A11X Fusion" with a dual-core energy-efficient core plus a 3-or-4 core "high power" core. With similar on the GPU side, where it has much more power than the phone A11 when it needs it, but can clock down+disable GPU cores for tasks that don't need the power.
Unless they update iOS 11 to take advantage of it I don't see the point of all that power.
Heck an A9 chip with 2GB of RAM is more than enough for iOS these days.
At this point..no matter how powerful the A series processors are...doesnt take a dummy to know that ios software is barely touching the surface of that power even if I have some skepticism of their actual potential. (Dummy OS is appropriate terminology with its limitations
)Ok, it's all my opinion as well, though I do a lot of support and education for hundreds of users and have seen it first hand. Dozens of older people who literally couldn't grasp how to use a mouse on a computer but use iPads every day now, as an example.
Let's be dead serious for a moment. Think about the majority of the people in the world - most are not technically savvy like we probably are. When I say most, I really mean most and not the niche that technically savvy.
Do you really see the every day person needing Windows or MacOS? Or knowing how to properly maintain it? With iOS (or heck even Chrome OS, or Android to an extent), the device becomes much easier to use, has easy access to software and is quite secure.
For the average non-technical savvy user, what do you think they would benefit from or need from Windows or Mac that they couldn't do on iPad?
I know the iPad keeps getting referred to as the post PC era. But heck, I think post PC has already happened and it's smartphones. The smartphone is almost everyone's primary computer. Would you argue with that?
Started to think about getting on these things and just realized how expensive and heavy
I am with you on this argument. We, as in everyone on this forum, are the minority when it comes to computers. Less and less people need sophisticated software to maintain their personal or work lives, myself included. I consider myself fairly tech savvy and I am familiar with most OS's, but I really don't have a need for a high end computer at my house. I manage a logistics brokerage firm and have a windows 10 laptop at the office for everything I need to do. At home, a MacBook currently, but I am going to sell and go iPad and iPhone only as I really don't have a need at home. I think that trend will continue.
I am with you on this argument. We, as in everyone on this forum, are the minority when it comes to computers. Less and less people need sophisticated software to maintain their personal or work lives, myself included. I consider myself fairly tech savvy and I am familiar with most OS's, but I really don't have a need for a high end computer at my house. I manage a logistics brokerage firm and have a windows 10 laptop at the office for everything I need to do. At home, a MacBook currently, but I am going to sell and go iPad and iPhone only as I really don't have a need at home. I think that trend will continue.
And after more than 20 pages (you probably did not read) on this thread you came up with this "constructive" comment? Did you think of this all by yourself?
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Definitely not MY ideal computer, not even close.
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The highlighted part is all I am referring to here and I would suggest saying it is becoming a primary computer. Almost everyone's? I think that may be a little optimistic. I base that purely on my experience as a friend and neighbor helping others with their computers and the demographic is seniors older than 55.
I do agree with the statement about seniors having a hard time grasping how to use a mouse but in every case, these are folks who never used a computer before and are trying to stay up to date with technology as they age, and are almost literally forced to have a computing device.
I think your definition of "the majority of people in the world" (in the context of computers) is another definition than mine. Your definition only seems to include (non technical savvy) home users doing some media consumption.
In my definition the majority of computer users in the world are people who use their computers for work. People working in offices or professionally from home. Most of those people need desktop OS computers and in their cases an IPad Pro simply will not do.
The post PC era has not happened at all since 99% of the professional work (varying from MS Office to high end graphical and 3d design) still can't be done on an iPad or smart phone but still has to be done on machines with a desktop OS.
In your definition you simply rule out the whole professional workforce in the world.
The point I was making was... $2,700 is a lot to spend on any computer with a mobile dual-core i7 and no dedicated GPU. That's what the earlier comments were hinting at.
And that's why I suggested a combo of a powerful desktop and a light laptop.
Yes... syncing data might be a pain (though less so with various cloud services we have now... would be fine for smaller documents... not giant video files...)
But sure... one computer that is both mobile and dockable is great. Just realize you're paying A LOT of money for not very much performance per dollar.
Aren't you gonna cry when you plug your $2,700 Surface Pro into your 4K monitor when it doesn't have a dedicated GPU?
I don't do anything that requires a dedicated GPU, so I wouldn't cry. I also don't intend to buy an i7 version of the Surface Pro because that price... argh! The most I spent in the past was for a spec'd out i7 MacBook Air and Thunderbolt display and it was a lot more than $2700. That was a good kit at the time... still is actually. But I spend a lot of time daily in OneNote now and the tablet/pen mode to take notes is a great form factor. Office suite heavy at work. Lightroom heavy for home/hobby. Surface Pro i5 is a great fit with that. And from my experience with the Surface Pro 4, it is OK as a tablet. Not as smooth as an iPad, but I also can run literally anything. I would rather have that then take two devices around.
I like how something that isn't even on the market yet you are an expert on. Also, this whole thread is talking about the Surface Pro which comes with Windows 10 Professional, not Windows 10 S.
I didn't miss the point of a 2in1 at all. My opinion is that a removable keyboard makes what you described way better. Folding the keyboard around 360 degrees is going to result in a device that is way too heavy to hold like a tablet. The Surface Pro, with keyboard removed, is still heavier than the iPad, but not so much so that its unusable. In fact, its pretty close in weight to the original iPad when it was released. Also, having a keyboard on the back of your tablet is kind of weird. I get the 2in1 but prefer the removable keyboard to a 360 degree hinge.
Wait, are you talking about the Surface Pro or the iPad? The Surface Pro can connect and work with about 99.9% of what's out in the world. Mini DisplayPort is on most business laptops and can output HDMI via an adapter if needed. Microsoft has also said they will have a USB-C dongle for the dock port in the future... so that will be covered in the rare case you need it. In my experience, I've yet to encounter a single device that requires USB-C anywhere in the world in my daily work and personal life.
Either you have a bad sample, you've hosed it up, or you don't have a Surface Pro 4. Its not a perfect machine for sure, but its also not the worst piece of junk ever. I love the thing personally. And based on JD Power survey, it ranked higher for user satisfaction than the iPad a month ago - http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2017-us-tablet-satisfaction-study
The kickstand is necessary for you to use it like a laptop. If you had a laptop in your lap, the hinge supports the display. With a Surface Pro, there is no hinge to the keyboard, so the kickstand leans down to hold it. Until I tried it, I thought it would not work well but I found it to be pretty good actually. All the use cases you just said you use your laptop, I've used a Surface Pro 4 in the same and it worked fine. Its different, but equally usable.
In contrast, my wife lives on her iPad. Its her only computer. She's always wanting to show us videos she found on the internet. Then there is the procedure of trying to prop it up on something. The kickstand would handle this scenario perfectly.
The kickstand can be set to many angles, and the studio mode is just a more flat angle than the old one would open to. I believe its at about the same angle as the Magic Trackpad which is nearly flat, but not completely. That is a good angle for writing. The only thing I don't like is that you can only do that in landscape mode. Though it would seem impossible to do, would be great if there were a way to tilt it like that in portrait mode as well, because that is how I like to take notes.
One other comment, for the folks I know, that own an ipad, they much prefer their desktop computer for most of their computing chores including media consumption. Their ipads, like ours (mine and wife's) is purely used for convenience when we are away from the desktops. And most of this desktop preference is based on having a large easy to read screen, a mouse, and a regular keyboard. All are much preferred over the ipad setup especially for long term browsing/consumption.
Or they realize the people using computers for work aren't the majority of computer users.