Microsoft Says New Surface Pro is Faster Than 15" M3 MacBook Air

[DeepIn2U]

well, competition is a good thing, but the "average" customer doesn't care about cinebencz benchmarks.
More interesting, they either sell online, or like at Best Buy right next to any x86 Windows computer, so that will be their main "competition"... and it's running WinARM, so no x86 compatibility, which might not matter to non-enterprise users

Just like Rosetta it'll work with some wizardry!

Speaking about enterprise - Lenovo just announced and shipping very soon their ThinkPad T14s running the same 80W chip with 32GB RAM at 855x Mhz(!) and 1TB max storage which IS for enterprise.

Surface Pro traditionally sells more in enterprise than consumer markets in any region. Do the research.

 

[NT1440]

Just like Rosetta it'll work with some wizardry!

Speaking about enterprise - Lenovo just announced and shipping very soon their ThinkPad T14s running the same 80W chip with 32GB RAM at 855x Mhz(!) and 1TB max storage which IS for enterprise.

Surface Pro traditionally sells more in enterprise than consumer markets in any region. Do the research.

The thing runs at 80w?!?!?

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

This isn't true. The mouse existed before Xerox, it was created at SRI. Also as far as Apple and Xerox go Apple was allowed to "take what they wanted" in exchange for massive mounts of shares which they did.

SRI, as in Xerox PARC?

 

[DeepIn2U]

The thing runs at 80w?!?!?

Not fully it CAN run up to 80W.

Qualcomm does NOT use TDP rating because it's very inaccurate and doesn't take into account of full system load across the board but they reflect that 80/84W achieving 3.6 max 4.0Ghz // 3.8 max 4.2Ghz performance specs.

It's dynamic as it needs.

 

[NT1440]

Not fully it CAN run up to 80W.

Qualcomm does NOT use TDP rating because it's very inaccurate and doesn't take into account of full system load across the board but they reflect that 80/84W achieving 3.6 max 4.0Ghz // 3.8 max 4.2Ghz performance specs.

It's dynamic as it needs.

That’s still astonishing to me. The M series still seems to be a generation ahead in terms of the amount of work you can get done while sipping power.

 

[waterfta]

That’s still astonishing to me. The M series still seems to be a generation ahead in terms of the amount of work you can get done while sipping power.

M2 apparently has 50W Max and M2Pro 100W. So, he said "can", not "will", similar as how Apple does. We will have to wait for reviews to see properly.

Mac mini power consumption and thermal output (BTU) information - Apple Support (IE)

Find out more about the power consumption and thermal output of Mac mini computers.

support.apple.com

 

[waterfta]

You not, me yes. Perhaps others too.

Yep. I always bought Mac products for the hardware and was running Boot Camp and switching back and forth mostly for fun or when I "needed" Windows. That changed when Surface came out and provided competition. Then, with M1 out, I got close to switching back again. Now, just ordered Surface Laptop 7.

In short, it's been the hardware. I can work my way around the quirks in both systems' software and don't care either way, especially as I'm not a PC gamer anymore.

 

[waterfta]

"Basically"? as in the sense that it doesn't have a keyboard, then yes. But they are still comparing it to a cheapest laptop Apple makes. They could compare it to the Pro Tablet that Apple just released with the M4, I'm curious to see how it stacks up. It'll be the same processor they put in their MacBook Air this year, and then it'll be Table to Tablet comparison against devices released the same year.

until Apple considers putting MacOS on iPad, they aren't comparable. This has always been the Surface's selling point as a "tablet" with full OS capabilities. Apple seems hesitant to do that because they can probably recognize the implementation on Microsoft's part has been "acceptable" at best. Plus, most casual users don't need full MacOS these days and those that do either use a proper laptop/desktop or find ways to combine both.

I have a colleague that seems very content with his iMac and iPad Pro combo for example. I would love the idea of a Nintendo Switch/Steam Deck style official docking station from Apple that somehow swaps the table interface to a full desktop one. However, considering companies are not meant to innovate as much as they are now just designed to push the stock price higher, I don't see them doing that until customers like my colleague stop purchasing both pieces of hardware

 

[gaximus]

I have a colleague that seems very content with his iMac and iPad Pro combo for example. I would love the idea of a Nintendo Switch/Steam Deck style official docking station from Apple that somehow swaps the table interface to a full desktop one. However, considering companies are not meant to innovate as much as they are now just designed to push the stock price higher, I don't see them doing that until customers like my colleague stop purchasing both pieces of hardware

I’m sure Apple has a version of an iPad somewhere in their lab that plugs in to a USB C cable attached monitor that switches the OS to MacOS, perfectly, and when it does, the little cloud bubble above Tim Cook’s head with millions of users with iPads and Macs on their desks, all the Macs disappear when the cable is plugged in, he unplugs it, and they reappear. so we‘ll never see that device.

(And I say that as an Apple Fan boy that still believes Apple only does stuff for the good of the customer)

 

[Luposian]

I don't use the iPad I have (except to play Lava Crew), nor any I've had access to. I use my iPhone SE or my Windows laptop or my M1 Mac Mini (occasionally). I have an Android tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab A7) that I got for free and haven't touched it, either, except to mess with Intellivision Amico Home, a couple times.

 

[Abazigal]

I’m sure Apple has a version of an iPad somewhere in their lab that plugs in to a USB C cable attached monitor that switches the OS to MacOS, perfectly, and when it does, the little cloud bubble above Tim Cook’s head with millions of users with iPads and Macs on their desks, all the Macs disappear when the cable is plugged in, he unplugs it, and they reappear. so we‘ll never see that device.

(And I say that as an Apple Fan boy that still believes Apple only does stuff for the good of the customer)

I do too, but it's also worth bearing in mind that "what's good for the customer" is often seen from Apple's perspective, never our own.

So temper your expectations accordingly.

 

[ddhhddhh2]

So here's the deal - no matter how you look at it, the Surface can tackle all those tasks and workflows you throw at it way better than an iPad with iPadOS. It's like, even if the Surface hardware was a hundred times slower than the iPad, it'd still come out ahead in the end. Crazy, right? But nah, not really. I'm totally on board with what Microsoft's saying here. 'Cause at the end of the day, even if you're moving at a snail's pace, you're still gonna beat the guy who's not even moving at all, you know?

 

[GuruZac]

Pardon my ignorance because the English language throws me off sometimes and you said dual. Do you mean a second port?

Oh no worries, and yes, you are correct. A second USB-C port on the iPad Pro. I think it would add yet another layer of flexibility. The iPad Pro is not a direct replacement for the Mac for many, and can't be for many, but for me, it is all the computer I will need. I do really love my M1 MacBook Air, but its power and flexibility aren't needed as much, and I love the multiple user interface options with the iPad Pro.

 

[bobenhaus]

lol that Microsoft really thinks I’m buying Mac because the hardware.

Yes.for the hardware

 

[bobenhaus]

Hardware certainly looks great. But the software? Hard pass.

You have a job because of MS innovation and not Apple. Just look around

 

[GuruZac]

Most people who buy MacBook Airs are not power users and won’t see any real world benefit from a supposedly faster Windows machine.

But some might like the Surface’s form factor or OLED display.

I’m happy for the competition, though. And while I’m a Mac guy, I’m happy that Windows people are getting some better options.

Great perspective. I totally agree. Great to have competition, and others have options.

 

[Serqetry]

Not me over here gaming on my Steam Deck which runs Linux...

BTW if Steam is any indicator, more people game on Linux than on Mac OS.

Yes, way more people game on Linux than MacOS. I use Linux to game, and I haven't found a Windows game I wanted to play that didn't just work. It's pretty incredible. There's no reason to run Windows anymore.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Surface Pro vs Macbook Air 🤔. MacBook Pro M4 is around the corner.

Yet thsi is qualcomms 1st real effort without locked down partnership.

Remember AMD & NVidia are also making laptop and desktop arm chips. THAT is the real competition. Also Microsoft makes server chips too?

Wheres Aplle server compeition? Oh yeah tjat died eith a real os and server tools long ago!!

 

[DeepIn2U]

Yes, way more people game on Linux than MacOS. I use Linux to game, and I haven't found a Windows game I wanted to play that didn't just work. It's pretty incredible. There's no reason to run Windows anymore.

Except Qualcomms X Elite has from its inception tested on Linux with full kernel and driver support. So run WSL2 OR load your distribution of choice

 

[DeepIn2U]

Yeah, Apple should only put its money in exactly one area (like its Macs) and not pursue any other research targets. Because that's what turned the 90s Apple into a trillion dollar company.

Actually it's EXACTLY what made them that valuable + iPhone + iPad and Watch and Services!

Not Goggles or a failed Car project that really was a UI extension for CarPlay partnership. Mostly it was huge investments ans tax breaks in Ireland.

Stop bending facts

 

[DeepIn2U]

Hardware certainly looks great. But the software? Hard pass.

Can anyone spot the fanboy here?

I'm sure you really mean the OS or the Kernel - not the software.

Do you use Microsoft Office?
^ Jobs thougth it was VERY important to launch the original Macintosh in 1984!
> its available on Windows too.
- Gone is Lotus 123.
- Gone is WordPerfect (arguably was much better than MS Word in WordPerfects heyday - I actually liked it a lot back then until '97)
Do you use Adobe Acrobat or did before MACH was used in OS X?
Do you use any of Adobes creative suit?
> its available on Windows too.
Do you use iTunes (or Apple Music)?
^ I distinctly recall JObs jokingly with heart believed & stated its teh best Windows software for their colleagues in Redmond.
- I'll bet you laughed and cheered during that announcement too.
Do you use Ableton, FruityLoops, and similar music composition software that competes with Logic?
> its available on Windows too!
Do you use Chrome, Firefox, or Brave browsers?
> Guess what its available on Windows too.
Do you use AutoDesk, BlueMatrix, SAP, OneDrive, MegaNZ, SoundCloud, Sonos (rich client app), Microsoft Remote Desktop, VNC, Citrix, or any VPN software ... I can go on and on here. As long as it sa rich client application its software.

The OS I'm sure is your gripe not the software that is cross-platform compatible.
Unless youre completely through & through die-hard macOS and Apple sofware user - not many users are today (i'd say most are either retired or still programming solely for the platform like Things! programmers).

So is it the software or the OS and kernel you dislike about this Surface Pro and Surface Book (the latter to me is garbage).

PS: I'm more personally looking forward to what Asus brings in this form-factor as they continually have raised the bar and leveled the Surface Pro.

 

[okbymeman]

One reason to use Windows is that Office runs much better on it in my experience.

 

[DeepIn2U]

That’s still astonishing to me. The M series still seems to be a generation ahead in terms of the amount of work you can get done while sipping power.

Oh of course As it SHOULD BE!

It's just Qualcomm's (aka Nuvia engineers - the original Apple Silicon engineering team) is focused on more performance as that platform has much more need or want for that.

Apple for years has bragged about the Neural Engine in its iPhone's and now the full M-series Apple Silicon for macOS. The issue is outside of AI/LLM programmers, those pushing cyrpto mining on Apple Silicon, and especailly games ... up until Logic THIS year ... what if any direct interaction did the macOS user HAVE to access it, manipulate how it worked with data, use it to their hearts desire?

Nothing. macOS used it directly for you - but was Apple very clear to what stage and extent in previous to May 2024 software that used it? I cannot recall Apple clearly stating so - not beyond flops or terrar flops or how many units in there. Apple had nothing really to show for it. No thanks in huge part to Giannis!!

Microsoft for almost 3 years has steadily been giving users (at least via cloud) to directly interact with AI/LLMs via Bing browser and now Copilot which can use many tasks for local data directly on device without the need for cloud.

During the same time Apple has been the rich kid that shows up to class to present its show & tell of teh most sought after toy, yet had no idea how to USE it nor answer questions about it! Heck iPad's M1 and M2 did NOT get Thunderbolt (or did the M2 iPad Pro actually get TB3) which was a complete insult if you ask me at its launch price.

At the end of the day its not simply what you got but how you can USE it!
Somehow Apple got into this bragging game and played too many softball jokes for laughs at their WWDC and other presentations to woo youth. Y? Now even their engineering lead is starting to do the Craig with a wink during the M4 iPad Pro presentation. Cringe.

 

[DarthDon]

Are you running all web based apps? Going to just run Android or Chrome OS? If not, then app compatibility is still a major issue. Even though you can often build the apps yourself from source in Linux, most were built for x86 and x64 and are not guaranteed to run on a different instruction set. And there's no emulator like Rosetta or Prism to make them work.

I have firefox, thunderbird and telegram for internet. I don't do programming... Google Android will never come in my house. Debian (since they have they'r WLan drivers working) is on my thinkpad, connected to a 55" Samsung TV. Works like a charm... Emulators are not my thing, since i don't have any need for that kind of programs.

 

[chrono1081]

SRI, as in Xerox PARC?

No, SRI. This demo predates Xerox Parc.