Microsoft Says Windows PC Makers Seeing 'Continued Growth' in Premium Market Led by Apple

[pat500000]

When have they ever broken out individual macs? They always release real sales numbers though.

So where is that number?

 

[WestonHarvey1]

I use the vi editor. Lacking a physical "Esc" key on the keyboard is a 100% deal-breaker for me. I am eyeing the new Dell XPS 15 laptops.

Have you tried it? It's literally a non-issue. It's always right where your finger thinks it is.

Esc on modern keyboards is ridiculously unergonomic in vi anyway. Use Ctrl-[ so you don't have to leave the home row, or get a keyboard where Esc is in more reasonable place like an HHKB.

Vi was designed for a terminal that had an Esc key where the Tab key is now.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Do a significant number of people really switch from Mac OS to Windows 10? Seems like a bit of a red herring to me even if Apple's current lineup is unimpressive. I can see power users, maybe, who's revenue depends on fast output changing. But is that a big number? I can't see the avg. consumer switching and also Mac seems to remain the preference of kids and college students.

Yes, power users. But the average consumer could also be influenced by the higher prices. Time will tell.

 

[nia820]

Not surprised at all. Especially with the surface line.

 

[potentmf]

The people I know that have them, love them. They are perfect for college kids. My cousin calls it a tablet with the capabilities and power of a laptop.

 

[brendu]

Hackintoshing is a great way to get the hardware you want, but with an actually good Operating System. I would seriously recommend it.

I have strongly considered it. It's absolutely an option.
[doublepost=1485540377][/doublepost]

I'd skip the garbage Dell and look at the Spectre x360 15t or one of the Asus models....

Calling the dell garbage makes me less likely to listen to a recommendation for the spectre.

 

[9081094]

I've been a Mac user for over 10 years because they were awesome.
The MBP is proving Apple is running for profit and not innovation.
Here's some key differences between SurfaceBook and MBP:

• SB - 16 hours of battery life. MBP - 10 hour. In reality, SB is a little less with pro usage, but MBP is only about 2 to 3 hours. Pathetic.
• SB - Has magsafe like connector for safety. MBP - got rid of Magsafe, one of the best inventions ever. This is ridiculous.
• SB - Has touchscreen. Once you use it you never go back. MBP - no touch screen, but has touch bar, that once you use it, you tend to avoid it.
• SB - Has detachable screen, where when detached, the OS changes into a tablet mode making it great for simple things like games, email, and browsing. MBP - can't detach screen, so if you wan't a tablet, it need to buy an expensive iPad. Obvious money grab.
• SB - Has the option for Nvidia GPU, which is great for CUDA developement, which I do. MBP - does not offer this option. So stuck with non CUDA development.

Please let me know if I'm being over critical, but please justify you reasoning. Remember, I was a hard core Mac lover, and Apple makes more money than anyone, so there's no reason that Apple should be 4 years behind the competition. Tim Cook may be fantastic at organizing production, but he would be fired if Steve Job's came back to life for what he has done to the company. Yes, the stock is good, but that cause the company is running for profit. It won't last.

I feel you. Im in for a new iMac since last year. Im still waiting after waiting and waiting. Never knew one computer company which neglected their customers for that long. Also I don't know any computer company who shameless tell in public that they're very committed to their computers. 2017 will be the year that I will probably turn my back to Apple. I loved their seamless integration, innovation and design. That all eroded the last 5 years. Apple has turned into a fashion brand while their fashion is out of date. Don't blame me for turning my back on Apple. Apple turned their back to me for years. The company has lost its soul and that's sad.

 

[brendu]

I've reluctantly started speccing out PC's that would work (to replace the Pro), but my emotional side is still hoping I'm wrong here and they update the Mini and Pro with good (true 4 core Mini option etc.) components. But my rational side says the likelihood of that happening is very low & that they've been pushed in the garbage can with the Airports.

The picture on apple's Mac page that accompanies the "compare Mac Models" link sums up apple's plans for the Mac lineup pretty clearly.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Calling the dell garbage makes me less likely to listen to a recommendation for the spectre.

The xps is quite the opposite of garbage and i used to hate dell. I'm with you, i wouldn't even look at that the spectre now after that ridiculous recommendation.

A nephew got an inspiration laptop recently and I was surprised by it. Not a premium laptop but built better than the stuff that was coming out of dell at one time.

An xps though is an excellent laptop.

 

[manu chao]

Been a Mac guy since 2002, shareholder since '09 and bought my first PC - HP Spectre x360 15t. Why? I wanted a better machine than my 11" MBA for on the go photo editing. Wanted either a 13" or 15" screen. The new Macbooks are Meh at best and very overpriced.

I got the latest Intel CPU, a 4k screen, touch + pen, 16GB, Discrete graphics, 512GB SSD machine for $1499. A comparable 15" MBP was $2799 and no pen/touch input.

Sure it's cheaper, it is, using Mac laptops as a yardstick, a budget 15" laptop: only dual-core, MBA-class CPU, no discrete GPU (built-in Intel GPU is even only an HD 520 not an Iris one), the 512 GB SSD appears to be a SATA one (only the 1 TB is listed as NVMe). It 'only' has a 64.5 Wh battery (the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery but the discrete GPU + quad-core CPU probably eat up that difference). It's connectivity tops out at 5 Gbit/s compared to the 40 Gbit/s of the MBP. (At least these are the specs listed on HP's website.)

And since we all know by now, a 15" laptop that doesn't offer 32 GB of RAM is essentially useless. /s

 

[nurban1992]

All of you who are preaching of doom and gloom are not looking at the bigger picture. People have been implying the undoing of Apple's position for as long as I can remember. Every time Apple releases a product that is controversial or one that doesn't smash records.

It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen anytime soon. That is because Apple has always been a controversial company, making decisions to what they truly believe is the best path, even if it doesn't excite users at the present time. They've been doing it even during the Steve Jobs era — it's what the "think different" mantra represents. They plan for the future, and their plans almost always turn out bright once the people acclamate to their vision.

Apple's always been focused on the things that matter most from the beginning: Privacy, security, simplicity, functionality, reliability and optimization. Apple is and will likely ever be ahead of the industry on these fronts. They've also been following their own ideal for the future for years — looking back on the evolution of the iPhone, iPad, Watch, and Mac and how features have been introduced and implemented across the entire platform, it's clear to see that they've had a vision in motion for how their product ecosystem will work for this entire past decade, and looking ahead.

Most of the rest of the industry makes decisions based on what Apple's released. Hardware and software design language of the competition's next generation almost always follows suit with what Apple's most recently released. And of course, that's not to say that Apple hasn't taken some inspiration from things such as Android... the point to be seen here is that Apple is the influencer, here. Even today, where most flagship android phones look suspiciously like a iPhone 6.

Whenever there is a blemish in Apple's execution, the competition jumps to take advantage of it, because that's the only way they have a chance to gain relevance. But, Apple always bounces back.

Right now, they're working on re-engineering and optimizing a new MBP that can support 32Gb of RAM, power better graphics, and likely have at least one other port. I say this with confidence because Apple was truly proud of what they've created with the new MBP, and was taken aback by the criticism. I have no doubt in my mind that they want to improve upon it, to satisfy consumers and give us what we actually want.

Anyone who thinks with logic would recognize this was Apple misunderstanding what the people wanted, and that they are now taking it as a learning experience. During a period of time where Apple is trying to pioneer a wireless future, across countries the world over (a far greater breadth than Jobs ever had to deal with). They will improve and will soar again.

But, the irrational ones will continue to say that Cook is destroying Apple and that everyone else is making better decisions. No. Apple's just thinking differently, and you're currently expressing impacience. In time, you'll get what they're working to accomplish, once they've got it all fleshed out.

 

[manu chao]

A computer does not have to be thinner to be a fresh design. People have been brainwashed to think that.

Sorry, unless you add touchscreen support to macOS, there is little that a fresh laptop design can offer besides being thinner and lighter. A laptop is a rectangular box (unless you go for wedge-shaped). You know that Apple would have gotten blasted if the 2016 MBP would have had the same case dimensions and just internal improvements (faster ports, wide gamut, brighter display, new CPU generation, new GPU, faster SSD, Touch Bar).

 

[pat500000]

All of you who are preaching of doom and gloom are not looking at the bigger picture. People have been implying the undoing of Apple's position for as long as I can remember. Every time Apple releases a product that is controversial or one that doesn't smash records.

It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen anytime soon. That is because Apple has always been a controversial company, making decisions to what they truly believe is the best path, even if it doesn't excite users at the present time. They've been doing it even during the Steve Jobs era — it's what the "think different" mantra represents. They plan for the future, and their plans almost always turn out bright once the people acclamate to their vision.

Apple's always been focused on the things that matter most from the beginning: Privacy, security, simplicity, functionality, reliability and optimization. Apple is and will likely ever be ahead of the industry on these fronts. They've also been following their own ideal for the future for years — looking back on the evolution of the iPhone, iPad, Watch, and Mac and how features have been introduced and implemented across the entire platform, it's clear to see that they've had a vision in motion for how their product ecosystem will work for this entire past decade, and looking ahead.

Most of the rest of the industry makes decisions based on what Apple's released. Hardware and software design language of the competition's next generation almost always follows suit with what Apple's most recently released. And of course, that's not to say that Apple hasn't taken some inspiration from things such as Android... the point to be seen here is that Apple is the influencer, here. Even today, where most flagship android phones look suspiciously like a iPhone 6.

Whenever there is a blemish in Apple's execution, the competition jumps to take advantage of it, because that's the only way they have a chance to gain relevance. But, Apple always bounces back.

Right now, they're working on re-engineering and optimizing a new MBP that can support 32Gb of RAM, power better graphics, and likely have at least one other port. I say this with confidence because Apple was truly proud of what they've created with the new MBP, and was taken aback by the criticism. I have no doubt in my mind that they want to improve upon it, to satisfy consumers and give us what we actually want.

Anyone who thinks with logic would recognize this was Apple misunderstanding what the people wanted, and that they are now taking it as a learning experience. During a period of time where Apple is trying to pioneer a wireless future, across countries the world over (a far greater breadth than Jobs ever had to deal with). They will improve and will soar again.

But, the irrational ones will continue to say that Cook is destroying Apple and that everyone else is making better decisions. No. Apple's just thinking differently, and you're currently expressing impacience. In time, you'll get what they're working to accomplish, once they've got it all fleshed out.

Where is Mac Pro? I noticed you were talking about mbp and not other macs.

 

[Eightarmedpet]

Yes and I think that it's an engineering marvel! The GTX965M runs at 75W and the Macbook Pro one only runs at 35W. And they perform similarly.

Indeed. I feel people are all too quick to jump on the 2016 MacBook Pro hate band wagon, I did too to be honest, eyed up all other laptops, but slowly came round to realising they are actually great machines.

 

[9081094]

All of you who are preaching of doom and gloom are not looking at the bigger picture. People have been implying the undoing of Apple's position for as long as I can remember. Every time Apple releases a product that is controversial or one that doesn't smash records.

It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen anytime soon. That is because Apple has always been a controversial company, making decisions to what they truly believe is the best path, even if it doesn't excite users at the present time. They've been doing it even during the Steve Jobs era — it's what the "think different" mantra represents. They plan for the future, and their plans almost always turn out bright once the people acclamate to their vision.

Apple's always been focused on the things that matter most from the beginning: Privacy, security, simplicity, functionality, reliability and optimization. Apple is and will likely ever be ahead of the industry on these fronts. They've also been following their own ideal for the future for years — looking back on the evolution of the iPhone, iPad, Watch, and Mac and how features have been introduced and implemented across the entire platform, it's clear to see that they've had a vision in motion for how their product ecosystem will work for this entire past decade, and looking ahead.

Most of the rest of the industry makes decisions based on what Apple's released. Hardware and software design language of the competition's next generation almost always follows suit with what Apple's most recently released. And of course, that's not to say that Apple hasn't taken some inspiration from things such as Android... the point to be seen here is that Apple is the influencer, here. Even today, where most flagship android phones look suspiciously like a iPhone 6.

Whenever there is a blemish in Apple's execution, the competition jumps to take advantage of it, because that's the only way they have a chance to gain relevance. But, Apple always bounces back.

Right now, they're working on re-engineering and optimizing a new MBP that can support 32Gb of RAM, power better graphics, and likely have at least one other port. I say this with confidence because Apple was truly proud of what they've created with the new MBP, and was taken aback by the criticism. I have no doubt in my mind that they want to improve upon it, to satisfy consumers and give us what we actually want.

Anyone who thinks with logic would recognize this was Apple misunderstanding what the people wanted, and that they are now taking it as a learning experience. During a period of time where Apple is trying to pioneer a wireless future, across countries the world over (a far greater breadth than Jobs ever had to deal with). They will improve and will soar again.

But, the irrational ones will continue to say that Cook is destroying Apple and that everyone else is making better decisions. No. Apple's just thinking differently, and you're currently expressing impacience. In time, you'll get what they're working to accomplish, once they've got it all fleshed out.

Thanks for your explanation Tim. Can you also tell me if it's worth the wait for a new iMac? At work I badly need a new Mac Pro. Or is it wiser to skip the Mac and go over to the other side. I feel kind of trapped right now...

 

[hithimhard50]

IMO, apple went in the wrong direction with the touch bar. It should have been the trackpad. Imagine the possibilities. Maybe you want to draw on something free hand. Then just click on an area of you screen with your cursor with maybe a shortcut or gesture, which then becomes the center of your touchpads screen where you can draw on the touch pad. You get the benefits of a tablet while still having the versatility of a laptop. Plus you don't have to write on a vertical screen like in windows which is cumbersome. Heck even the DJ tutorial they showed on the track bar would have been much better equipped on a screen trackpad which has more room.

 

[itguy06]

I have strongly considered it. It's absolutely an option.
[doublepost=1485540377][/doublepost]
Calling the dell garbage makes me less likely to listen to a recommendation for the spectre.

20+ year IT career having seen tons of computers tells me Dell is garbage. Always has been. You don't have to believe me but the Spectre lineup is on most reviewer's "Best Windows Laptops" lists for 1-2 years now.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Sure it's cheaper, it is, using Mac laptops as a yardstick, a budget 15" laptop: only dual-core, MBA-class CPU, no discrete GPU (built-in Intel GPU is even only an HD 520 not an Iris one), the 512 GB SSD appears to be a SATA one (only the 1 TB is listed as NVMe). It 'only' has a 64.5 Wh battery (the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery but the discrete GPU + quad-core CPU probably eat up that difference). It's connectivity tops out at 5 Gbit/s compared to the 40 Gbit/s of the MBP. (At least these are the specs listed on HP's website.)

And since we all know by now, a 15" laptop that doesn't offer 32 GB of RAM is essentially useless. /s

I will take this one for 1187. over the losest 15" macbook pro. Seriously, quote battery life and weight all you want but 1700 less for this one than the closest macbook pro and sagers are generally upgradable. Even graphics cards.

15.6” FHD 16:9 LED Backlit Wide screen (1920x1080) Super Clear Matte Type IPS Screen
7th Generation Intel® Kabylake™ i7-7700HQ (2.8GHz - 3.8GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache
Mobile Intel® HM175 Series Chipset
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 [2GB] w/ Optimus™ Technology
32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 2400MHz Dual Channel Memory
512GB SanDisk X400 SSD - Bay 1
1 x HDMI™ output Port (with HDCP)
2 mDP 1.2
1 USB 2.0 Port
1 USB 3.0 Type C
2 USB 3.0 Ports
1 Headphone Jack
1 Microphone Jack
1 RJ-45 LAN

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np6850-clevo-n850hj.html?startcustomization=1

 

[itguy06]

The xps is quite the opposite of garbage and i used to hate dell. I'm with you, i wouldn't even look at that the spectre now after that ridiculous recommendation.

A nephew got an inspiration laptop recently and I was surprised by it. Not a premium laptop but built better than the stuff that was coming out of dell at one time.

An xps though is an excellent laptop.

I don't care what you buy but calling Dell anything but garbage is a stretch. For the same $$ you could buy an HP that has the Mac's build quality (it is very well built) and, IIRC at a cheaper price than a Dell XPS 13 2-in-1....

Asus is also making some compelling designs and relative newcomer Razer's blade series looks great as well.

Dell is the bottom of the barrel and you'd do yourself a favor to look elsewhere.

 

[brendu]

20+ year IT career having seen tons of computers tells me Dell is garbage. Always has been. You don't have to believe me but the Spectre lineup is on most reviewer's "Best Windows Laptops" lists for 1-2 years now.

So are the XPS line from the past 3 years.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

Sorry, unless you add touchscreen support to macOS, there is little that a fresh laptop design can offer besides being thinner and lighter. A laptop is a rectangular box (unless you go for wedge-shaped). You know that Apple would have gotten blasted if the 2016 MBP would have had the same case dimensions and just internal improvements (faster ports, wide gamut, brighter display, new CPU generation, new GPU, faster SSD, Touch Bar).

So you are agreeing with me? what do you mean by sorry, you agreed? I said thinner does not mean a fresh laptop and you agree with me by saying a touch screen would mean that. You seem to be arguing with yourself.

Most people do not even notice a couple of mm's thinner, that certainly does not mean a fresh design by any stretch. Touch screen, absolutely.

 

[itguy06]

Sure it's cheaper, it is, using Mac laptops as a yardstick, a budget 15" laptop: only dual-core, MBA-class CPU, no discrete GPU (built-in Intel GPU is even only an HD 520 not an Iris one), the 512 GB SSD appears to be a SATA one (only the 1 TB is listed as NVMe). It 'only' has a 64.5 Wh battery (the 15" MBP has a 76 Wh battery but the discrete GPU + quad-core CPU probably eat up that difference). It's connectivity tops out at 5 Gbit/s compared to the 40 Gbit/s of the MBP. (At least these are the specs listed on HP's website.)

And since we all know by now, a 15" laptop that doesn't offer 32 GB of RAM is essentially useless. /s

That is LAST YEAR'S MODEL. This is the new one that trumps the MBP:
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-spectre-x360---15-bl075nr-z4z37ua-aba
[doublepost=1485542603][/doublepost]

So are the XPS line from the past 3 years.

I'll pass on a company that historically makes junk on the hope that they "got it right". The work Dell I use (Latitude) is garbage in nearly every sense of the word.

 

[BeforeTheMeds]

I don't care what you buy but calling Dell anything but garbage is a stretch. For the same $$ you could buy an HP that has the Mac's build quality (it is very well built) and, IIRC at a cheaper price than a Dell XPS 13 2-in-1....

Asus is also making some compelling designs and relative newcomer Razer's blade series looks great as well.

Dell is the bottom of the barrel and you'd do yourself a favor to look elsewhere.

I have used a lot of asus motherboards in my builds and I'm sure I have seen and built a lot more than you have when you quote 20 years. Probably started before you were born.

HP. Give me a break and search for wifi problems hp. I know 2 people that have hp envy's and they are junk. HP, lol.

2&1? I'm talking about the xps 13 and 15, very high rated.

I like asus but I would take the xps line over it and I am a long time dell hater. The xps has been constantly getting best windows laptop.

 

[Franshans]

If you haven't yet switched to a Microsoft Surface, do so now! Apple is train running straight into bankruptcy from bad products and overpriced watch bands no one asked for, with its stupid train conductor Tim and coal shoveling minion Johnny

blah blah since 10+ years...
Sure, Apple´s lineup is ridiculous at the moment, but I used a Surface - and it sucked more than anything.
[doublepost=1485542830][/doublepost]

I know 2 people that...

rofl.

 

[MH01]

Under a rock? You do know the, "esc," key literally is always present?

Physical key