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Ok.

Apple is going to require Uber, Lyft, Target and Walmart to pay 15% of every online shopping order (it's 0% currently). Oh and that Amazon store purchase? 15% please.
Apple is not that suicidal. They will try to maintain status quo s long as they can and probably will lose in the end anyways.
 
Tim Cook likes to lobby for equality yet does not see why allowing some companies to pay less is anything but equality?

You are confusing business with human rights, they are two completely different things. When you run a business, you sign different deals with different partners. I have affiliate partners who have a 10% cut and some who get 30% - because that’s the deals they were able to negotiate. It’s how things work.
 
I'm not a supporter of government interference with private business but I definitely think anti-trust action is warranted against Apple. They're abusing what is, IMO, a monopoly. Time to put some restraints on Apple.
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You are confusing business with human rights, they are two completely different things. When you run a business, you sign different deals with different partners. I have affiliate partners who have a 10% cut and some who get 30% - because that’s the deals they were able to negotiate. It’s how things work.
Unless you have a monopoly which, IMO, Apple does wrt the App Store.
 
Well, I'm a small independent developer and I disagree. The 30% is fair for what is offered from Apple's side: tax documentation, billing arrangements in different countries, visibility on the App Store, detailed metrics on usage, and more...

I dislike how 'independent developers' are OK with this until they suddenly become huge companies with million dollar budgets (and profits) - then it's suddenly 'unfair' because what they're paying Apple now amounts to millions of dollars (even though it's still the same 15/30%). It's disgusting actually, and I'll be really annoyed if the big developers pay less proportionally than the smaller ones - that's really unfair (you know, like the US tax system... great model that).

Of course you are happy with it, as all the things you mentioned would likely cost you more to do yourself rather than just pay the 15/30% to Apple.

However I bet once the 15/30% starts to cost you more than paying to do those things yourself, you too would also start getting annoyed that there is no freedom to do it another way on iOS without paying out a hefty chunk of profit.

Also what makes 15/30% fair? If Apple decided to take 90% of your profit instead would you be happy if it was that?
 
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Apple has to lose this. The conditions are daylight robbery. I find the epic promo video amazingly valid.
Back then Apple opposed MS as being the bully and now it is the same but Apple is the bully.
Hahahaha, how things change.
You clearly can’t see the difference. Microsoft manipulated a poorly written license to copy Mac OS. They then licensed that stolen product to EOM but forbade them from using competing OS or products on the products they are producing and marketing. Apple makes the whole widget. While allowing apps to run natively is great for them and developers, it is not how it started. Web Apps were the way at first and they are still supported. In fact WebOS that came years after Apple moved to native Apps was lauded at the time as the Apple killer. Maybe Apple should charge per service for use of their APIs for those that don’t want to play. And it will be directly related to cost of maintaining the platform plus profit. I’m sure it would be a substantial increase. How can you be a bully in your own store. It’s like going to Target and complaining that the items are higher than Walmart or demanding that Walmart carry Target branded products.
 
I’m certainly no attorney, and I agree Apple’s "store" policies seem overly onerous. If nothing else they need a majore revamp of rules. They’ve forced virtually every app to have in-app purchases, or be pay-as-you-go. Won’t participate in those. Would much rather pay more up-front to "own" the app.
I believe this will hurt Apple. All the lawsuits are just making them look worse with the current investigations they’re under.

That said though, it"s their "store" and should be able to carry only the "products" they want.

I liken it to trying to get a new product into a grocery store chain. It’s a circus of paying them money just to get the product in, then some more for good placement, etc. It’s almost like extortion.

inot Even completely sure where I stand on this whole mess.
It's their OS and they should be able to include any browser they want said no Apple advocate wrt Microsoft bundling IE.
 
Then develop a store that's worth a damn behind a mobile OS that is the same and Epic can be your client. Otherwise keep your hand out of the cookie jar Satya.
 
How much of the 30% did Apple reinvest back into developers?

The problem is that you have no idea. Developers have *some* idea because we literally can see the benefits of the 30% first hand.

But if you took some time and do some research, you can make estimates from their financial statements and reported numbers.

If you want, I show you my math and sources (it's a long explanation so I'm not going to write it all out unless you want, but I doubt you're going to read). It turns out, Apple in 2019 made about $15 billion in revenue from the App Store cut and I estimated that about $5 billion is reinvested back into the developer platform.

Now, 66% margin is a nice fat margin, but compared to Android, I suspect Apple is investing far more than Google back into the platform.

On Android, Epic *can* already run their own store on Android but they're currently failing to get adoption because no one wants to install it. So asking for a separate store is unlikely to change things as we've already seen, what else does Epic want? Asking Apple to decrease their cut to, let's say, 20% would essentially cut back investments into developers since Apple knows they're ahead of the game in developer side. Cutting back investments is bad for small developers and 80% is only going to benefit large companies.

Do you think Apple should instead charge developers according to how much they cost Apple’s infrastructure? Currently apps like Spotify and Facebook do not pay Apple much as they don’t offer subscription/IAP on App Store. If more/all big apps pay Apple for their usage of App Store, maybe the 30% level can drop - if Apple keeps the same margin.
 
Then develop a store that's worth a damn behind a mobile OS that is the same and Epic can be your client. Otherwise keep your hand out of the cookie jar Satya.
The problem is that they can't because Apple prevents them from doing so.
 
Do you think Apple should instead charge developers according to how much they cost Apple’s infrastructure? Currently apps like Spotify and Facebook do not pay Apple much as they don’t offer subscription/IAP on App Store. If more/all big apps pay Apple for their usage of App Store, maybe the 30% level can drop - if Apple keeps the same margin.
Apple should allow side loading of applications. Those who want to use the App Store can and those who don't won't be forced to. A win-win for everyone except Apple.
 
Of course you are happy with it, as all the things you mentioned would likely cost you more to do yourself rather than just pay the 15/30% to Apple.

However I bet once the 15/30% starts to cost you more than paying to do those things yourself, you too would also start getting annoyed that there is no freedom to do it another way on iOS without paying out a hefty chunk of profit.

Also what makes 15/30% fair? If Apple decided to take 90% of your profit instead would you be happy if it was that?
If they didn’t need Apple’s marketing and access to their customer base, it would be different. They should invest in making their platform independent and everyone would be signing up on their site and not in app at all. Problem solved. If you build your business off someone else’s platform, expect to pay. It would be different if Apple was changing the terms after the fact. In fact, they made the terms better for those developers who make apps that have subscriptions that are maintained beyond the first year.
 
The problem is that they can't because Apple prevents them from doing so.
No, not a store that has to live in my store. Why aren’t they doing the same as Xbox. Make your own platform that does not depend on the work of Apple. It’s more that just a store, Apple actually creates the frameworks and tools that make their apps possible. Why should they have access to those tools for free? They want to be paid and decide their own prices. I think all their games should be 9 cents because I don’t value them. Do you think they will accept that?
 
If they didn’t need Apple’s marketing and access to their customer base, it would be different. They should invest in making their platform independent and everyone would be signing up on their site and not in app at all. Problem solved. If you build your business off someone else’s platform, expect to pay. It would be different if Apple was changing the terms after the fact. In fact, they made the terms better for those developers who make apps that have subscriptions that are maintained beyond the first year.

They don’t need Apple’s marketing though. It’s a popular game that is on multiple platforms. The game was released 9 months prior to launching on iOS on other platforms where they advertised within the game itself that it was launching on iOS.

Also who determines that the current terms are fair. Why is 15/30% fair? Would you say the same if it was 90% instead?
 
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Okay Microsoft then I want to be able to install playstation games on an xbox, install games from other places and deveppers should get more than 70% of profits on your platform too. While I’m at it I dont want to have to pay more to play online on a console that I already bought.

Microsoft is trying to play the hero when they are just as much the villain as apple here and its it very hypocritical of them to support epic when they do have the same damn problems....

Now I’m not saying apple is the bad guy either, like I’ve pointed out other companies have the same 70/30 split, along with Sony and Microsoft in the same way as apple as there’s only one play to sell on those platforms. Is the 70/30 split right, imo no but pointing the finger at just apple when Sony, Microsoft, Steam and Google take the same cuts is so dumb.

And Epic trying to play this as “for the gamer“ and ”for developers“ but that‘s dumb too. Like they don’t give a damn about gamers and other developers, they only care about their bottom line and the fact they‘re spinning it that way is uttely disgusting. Like we’re talking about a comapny that make millions or billions on one game with mostly children buying useless skins they may hardly use with their own money or money taken from their parents. Like its $20 for one skin....thats absurd for the amount of money they make off them, its a blatant rip and scheme to take money from kids and its disgusting.

As much as I think Apple‘s TOS need tweaking and the 70/30 cut needs changing a bitt (but again not just an apple thing there) I can‘t support a company like epic who is playing rather childish games to just stuff their own pockets rather than help anyone.

Edit: TL;DR: I don’t like anybody for this war, all are in the wrong in one way or another, though I thin Epic is the worst one.
 
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Okay Microsoft then I want to be able to install playstation games on an xbox, install games from other places and deveppers should get more than 70% of profits on your platform too. While I’m at it I dont want to have to pay more to play online on a console that I already bought.

Microsoft is try to play the hero when they are just as much the villain as apple here and its it very hypocritical of them to support epic when they do have the same damn problems....

Now I’m not saying apple Is the bad guy either, like I’ve pointed out many many companies have the same 70/30 split, along with Sony and Microsoft in the same way as apple as there’s only one play to sell on those platforms. Is the 70/30 split right, imo no but pointing the finger at just apple when Sony, Microsoft, Steam and Google take the same cuts is so dumb.

And Epic trying to play this as “for the gamer“ and ”for developers“ is dumb too. Like they don’t give a damn about gamers and other developers, they only care about their bottom line and the fact they‘re spinning it that way is uttely disgusting. Like we’re talking about a comapny that make millions or billions on one game with mostly children buying useless skins they may hardly with their own money or money taken from their parents. Like its $20 for one skin....thats absurd fro the amount of money they make off them, its a blatant rip and scheme to take money from kids and its disgusting.

As much as I think Apple‘s TOS need tweaking and the 70/30 cut needs changing a but (but again not just an apple thing there) I can‘t support a company like epic who is playing rather childish games to just stuff their own pockets more rather than help other.

Edit: TL;DR: I don’t like anybody for this war, all are in the wrong in one way or another, though I thin Epic is the worst one.
 
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No, not a store that has to live in my store. Why aren’t they doing the same as Xbox. Make your own platform that does not depend on the work of Apple. It’s more that just a store, Apple actually creates the frameworks and tools that make their apps possible. Why should they have access to those tools for free? They want to be paid and decide their own prices. I think all their games should be 9 cents because I don’t value them. Do you think they will accept that?
No one, at least not that I've seen, is saying Apple shouldn't be compensated for the frameworks / tools Apple has made. I don't have any objection if Apple charges for said items. However that's not the same as prohibiting developers from side loading applications.
 
Do you think Apple should instead charge developers according to how much they cost Apple’s infrastructure? Currently apps like Spotify and Facebook do not pay Apple much as they don’t offer subscription/IAP on App Store. If more/all big apps pay Apple for their usage of App Store, maybe the 30% level can drop - if Apple keeps the same margin.
I dont they should do a tiered approach to keep things simple, but I also think Apple should just send out a survey asking this question and see what the response would be like.
 
Okay Microsoft then I want to be able to install playstation games on an xbox, install games from other places and deveppers should get more than 70% of profits on your platform too. While I’m at it I dont want to have to pay more to play online on a console that I already bought.
Perhaps a legitimate complaint against Microsoft which has absolutely nothing to do with Apple and their ToS.
 
You are confusing business with human rights, they are two completely different things. When you run a business, you sign different deals with different partners. I have affiliate partners who have a 10% cut and some who get 30% - because that’s the deals they were able to negotiate. It’s how things work.
Apple loves placing human rights in the center of their advertising campaigns, they should at least follow that ethics, and don’t digitally rape customers and developers. Same with their donations, if all these donations would be from the deepest of their heart, like they publicly love to claim, they would donate quietly, but these are pure strategic business donations. Apple is soulless.

But the bigger they come, the harder they fall.
 
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