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Personally, having owned an iPad, it is an expensive media consumption larger iPhone. It is the best media consumption laptop, but not value for money (whether you can afford it or not).

For productivity, SP is better, but I am not happy with the current iteration due to battery life.

Really looking forward to the SP5, or maybe even the next Surface Book - unless Apple manages to really pull off something nice with MacOS/iOS (which since 2015 have just been a buggy mess for me, compared to pre-2015).
 
Really looking forward to the SP5, or maybe even the next Surface Book
Latest rumors on the next Surface Book is that it will be a minor update. I don't know about the Surface Pro, I've not come across too many rumors on that, other then it will retain the same proprietary keyboard connector.
 
Personally, having owned an iPad, it is an expensive media consumption larger iPhone. It is the best media consumption laptop, but not value for money (whether you can afford it or not).

For productivity, SP is better, but I am not happy with the current iteration due to battery life.

Really looking forward to the SP5, or maybe even the next Surface Book - unless Apple manages to really pull off something nice with MacOS/iOS (which since 2015 have just been a buggy mess for me, compared to pre-2015).
Purchased the sp4 after laptop died in Dec 2015. No doubt it's a windows box, with a lot of compromises. The use case was mainly for the better half because after the laptop she wanted something light. In that dept. the sp4 doesn't disappoint. The keyboard, kickstand, magnets, wireless display and pen is also very innovative. However I found the pen to be of limited use and I don't use tablet mode as it's not as "good" as the ipad.
  • battery life is abysmal, no doubt about it. The ipad will go the distance on a coast to coast flight, sp4 not so much.
  • Need the power adapter to charge/power the sp4, can't charge from one of the big available battery packs.
  • The power pack should have had 2.4amp USB to be able to charge an ipad.
  • Because of cooling (with the i5/i7 chips) it's not as sleek as the ipad pro.
Away, I find I can do most what I need with the ipad through one of the many RDP programs available on the app store and I can do this in the air. Using the sp4 on a coast to coast flight will certainly result in a dead battery on the sp4 at landing. However, there are some things I needs windows, which is why the sp4 comes with us on a trip.

So there you have it, trade-offs in usage, battery, style, charging, etc. For some people, and I know some, the ipad is a desktop replacement as not everybody "needs" windows. Not however imo, for the "typical" knowledge worker working for a fortune 500 company.
 
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Interesting comments from Paul Thurrott, its behind a paywall, but I think some his comments on the JD Powers selection are spot on. I understand we can easily categorize him as an apple hater and given his rich history of knocking Apple, I'll not disagree, but I do think he does raise some interesting points.

But this win is bigger than Surface, I think. And it says a lot about the state of innovation in the PC world these days.

Which actually makes sense when you think about it: Apple is fat and comfortable and wants to protect its iPhone economic engine. By comparison, the PC industry is beleaguered and is fighting for its life. Innovation doesn't come out of companies like Apple. It comes from companies that have something to prove, that are fighting for their very existence.

While I don't like how he describes Apple as fat, I think the point of Apple protecting its iPhone vs. companies doing everything they can to produce a product, has some truth to it. Companies don't grow and stay #1 by trying to protect their marketshare, history shows us that. Just look at Microsoft as a great example. They tried stifling competitors and using their marketshare to squash potential competitors. Now that they lost the phone market, they're really pushing and swinging for the fences with new products and services.

More simply, the reason the iPad fell to Surface is that the iPad of today is all too similar to the one Apple released in 2010. It's limited in all the same areas and has not evolved in any exciting and unexpected ways

This comment has some interesting insight, the iPad by and large has not changed in 6+ years. The most radical update occurred when Apple added a stylus, and that was to compete and try to fight off the Surface Pro
 
Purchased the sp4 after laptop died in Dec 2015. No doubt it's a windows box, with a lot of compromises. The use case was mainly for the better half because after the laptop she wanted something light. In that dept. the sp4 doesn't disappoint. The keyboard, kickstand, magnets, wireless display and pen is also very innovative. However I found the pen to be of limited use and I don't use tablet mode as it's not as "good" as the ipad.
  • battery life is abysmal, no doubt about it. The ipad will go the distance on a coast to coast flight, sp4 not so much.
  • Need the power adapter to charge/power the sp4, can't charge from one of the big available battery packs.
  • The power pack should have had 2.4amp USB to be able to charge an ipad.
  • Because of cooling (with the i5/i7 chips) it's not as sleek as the ipad pro.
Away, I find I can do most what I need with the ipad through one of the many RDP programs available on the app store and I can do this in the air. Using the sp4 on a coast to coast flight will certainly result in a dead battery on the sp4 at landing. However, there are some things I needs windows, which is why the sp4 comes with us on a trip.

So there you have it, trade-offs in usage, battery, style, charging, etc. For some people, and I know some, the ipad is a desktop replacement as not everybody "needs" windows. Not however imo, for the "typical" knowledge worker working for a fortune 500 company.

That's a fair enough assessment, I agree with all the shortcomings you list. it really comes down to which device you prefer and does what you need it to do.

It will be interesting how those weaknesses are going forward. Kaby Lake should have some improvement in battery life, although not that much which is a disappointment with Intel in general. I get a solid 6 hours out of my SP4 with regular usage, probably more if I was in battery saver mode or adjusted some of the settings. The Tab S pro gets closer to 7 hours, and doesn't have a fan which helps its form factor, which should improve more if Samsung uses Kaby Lake in the next one. Although there is a strong rumor that Microsoft is working on x86 compatability with Snapdragon chips, if that's true then that might be huge in terms of battery and performance, especially if Samsung is working on something.

Anyhow that's tomorrow and not today, and your weakness for the SP4 certainly are something that I agree with. It's just a trade off if you want the SP4 weaknesses, or the ipad weaknesses. For myself the ipad's weakness are just too significant as a tablet to ever go back to it, but I most likely define a tablet differently than you do.
 
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*inexplicable

And in defense of people who build their own stuff, don't a lot of cheaper mobos still require BIOS functionality or simply don't support EFI? I'm not having much luck finding where I remember seeing that, so I'm doubting my own memory...

Not anymore though I'm sure with a through enough google search you'll probably find some. The switch has been coming since Westmere in the mainstream and I've not bought a board since Sandy Bridge that wasn't UEFI capable and my most recent had no BIOS option. While it's been a long while since I created a W10 thumb drive IIRC if your thumb drive is MBR then the boot driver creater assumes no EFI and you don't get an EFI install. I like and prefer EFI but I'm not all that sure most people shut down other than for updates I think most just sleep and wake as needed so either will be fine for them.

===

On topic I got my wife an iPad Pro a month or so ago and I like it and I don't think I'd buy a Surface Pro over it unless it was my only computing device, but then if I only had one computing device I don't think it'd be a Surface.
 
Purchased the sp4 after laptop died in Dec 2015. No doubt it's a windows box, with a lot of compromises. The use case was mainly for the better half because after the laptop she wanted something light. In that dept. the sp4 doesn't disappoint. The keyboard, kickstand, magnets, wireless display and pen is also very innovative. However I found the pen to be of limited use and I don't use tablet mode as it's not as "good" as the ipad.
  • battery life is abysmal, no doubt about it. The ipad will go the distance on a coast to coast flight, sp4 not so much.
  • Need the power adapter to charge/power the sp4, can't charge from one of the big available battery packs.
  • The power pack should have had 2.4amp USB to be able to charge an ipad.
  • Because of cooling (with the i5/i7 chips) it's not as sleek as the ipad pro.
Away, I find I can do most what I need with the ipad through one of the many RDP programs available on the app store and I can do this in the air. Using the sp4 on a coast to coast flight will certainly result in a dead battery on the sp4 at landing. However, there are some things I needs windows, which is why the sp4 comes with us on a trip.

So there you have it, trade-offs in usage, battery, style, charging, etc. For some people, and I know some, the ipad is a desktop replacement as not everybody "needs" windows. Not however imo, for the "typical" knowledge worker working for a fortune 500 company.

Although I agree with you about the battery life concerns, the fact that the iPad has decent battery life is kind of dwarfed by the fact that it is much more limited in functionality compared to an SP, I really don't enjoy iOS on a tablet if I am honest. It is more comparable to Android tablets in my opinion.
 
I have, its a nice tablet, though I have since sold it and gotten a Surface Book which offers a larger display, better battery and a faster processor.
I don't have a Surface but from my point of view is not a good tablet and not a good laptop. It is not a good a tablet because it runs software designed for laptops (keyboard & mouse) and is not a good laptop because the hardware design is tablet oriented. Just my opinion, pretty sure many people using SF4 have found a good product that fulfills their needs.
 
I don't have a Surface but from my point of view is not a good tablet and not a good laptop. It is not a good a tablet because it runs software designed for laptops (keyboard & mouse) and is not a good laptop because the hardware design is tablet oriented. Just my opinion, pretty sure many people using SF4 have found a good product that fulfills their needs.
That is why first-hand experience is so important... for BOTH sides of the equation.

There are those who look at the theory of owning a converged device and see having a desktop OS on a tablet as a good thing (from a tablet owner's perspective). And those who see it as a negative (from a notebook owner's perspective).

The reality can only be determined by practical every day use.

As an owner of iPads, and iPad Pro, Surface and various notebooks and tablets, my "dream" converged device would be the Surface Pro 4 hardware that is capable of running both iOS and macOS. yeah, I know, keep dreaming. :eek::D
 
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Although I agree with you about the battery life concerns, the fact that the iPad has decent battery life is kind of dwarfed by the fact that it is much more limited in functionality compared to an SP, I really don't enjoy iOS on a tablet if I am honest. It is more comparable to Android tablets in my opinion.

The iOS experience on a tablet is vastly superior to an Android tablet.
With regards to functionality - I think that is changing as more power and features are being added to iOS and related applications.
 
how is 6 points out of 1000 of any significance? Even the difference between the top and bottom is negligible. Or am I missing something?
 
how is 6 points out of 1000 of any significance? Even the difference between the top and bottom is negligible. Or am I missing something?

you're not. JD power has the most bizarre conclusions. It's everytime they release report it makes me go "WTF?!"

they seem to have this mentality that if a device isn't first, it cannot get more t han 3 stars, EVEN if the percentage of people who voted in favour are only a couple points off. it makes for some really bizarre comparisons.

it's not uncommon to see reports where Device A gets a 98/100 and a 5 star rating, while Device B gets a 97/100 and gets a 2 star rating coming in 2nd. it really doesn't make sense and stinks more like JD power has become a sales arm for whoever comes up first
 
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That is why first-hand experience is so important... for BOTH sides of the equation.

There are those who look at the theory of owning a converged device and see having a desktop OS on a tablet as a good thing (from a tablet owner's perspective). And those who see it as a negative (from a notebook owner's perspective).

The reality can only be determined by practical every day use.

As an owner of iPads, and iPad Pro, Surface and various notebooks and tablets, my "dream" converged device would be the Surface Pro 4 hardware that is capable of running both iOS and macOS. yeah, I know, keep dreaming. :eek::D

That would be my dream too - the perfect all in one device.
 
The iOS experience on a tablet is vastly superior to an Android tablet.
With regards to functionality - I think that is changing as more power and features are being added to iOS and related applications.

I haven't used an android tablet in years but I was more talking with respect to battery life, where android tablet quote over 10 hours of use.
 
Sure they do, there are clearly attack vectors for them.
Yet I havent heard of Mac infections... Windows can get infected but it doesnt until you try to infect it. Some common sense would go a long way in maintaining virus free PCs


It doesn't have to be new. It's an entry level at an attractive price that will attract new and returning apple customers and sales will increase similar to the SE.
Those who wanted an Air 2 have already got one in the 4 years it was on the market. A cross between the iPad Air and an Air 2 is not going to help any.


It's not an hour less, it's 50% less in real world usage.
Thats your anecdotal experience. According to Microsoft its just an hour less. And to put forth my anecdotal experience neither my iPad Pro or Air 2 lasts 10 hours with constant use as Apple claims.


Trade-offs with the ipads are less than the sp4, which has issues with bulk, battery life and heat. The one plus portability.
60g lesser weight isnt a groundbreaking difference. Battery life is more because the iPad does less. Lets limit the Windows tablet to suspend all background processes and let us use only 2 apps at one time, and terminate the apps in memory every 8 hours and see who wins


Since I own the sp4, I'd say my opinion counts just as much. The ipad pro pencil is just so much better. I don't even use the sp4 pencil because it's not that good.
You only own a Surface Pro. The reviews I am posting are customers with both an iPad Pro and Surface Pro and have used both for extensive periods of time


There are always compromises to be had, just less with ipads, imo.
Both have the same amounf of compromises. The iPad has worse fragmentation because of features being split between the pro 12.9,9.7 and the Mini while there are only 2 surfaces on the market


It depends on what your workflow is. A professional artist might not say that. A dot net developer maybe. My aunt doesn't need windows, an ipad is fine for her.
Lets play along with your logic for a while and admit that for an artist an iPad Pro is better.But its useless for a dot net developer. On the other hand the Surface is perfectly serviceable for an artist whilst also getting the job done for a developer.


Not really, zero day vulnerabilities are Microsofts worst nightmare.
My antivirus updates every 2 seconds

You brought the whole thing up, I just proved you were wrong.
I never claimed anything about netbooks or 2006 era PCs.


If they do, much less than the SP4.
Its worse because when I pay for a Surface Pro 4, I get extra features while when I pay for an iPad Pro 12.9 I get an inferior screen and the same battery life


Can't have it both ways.
If Steve is responsible for iPad decline 7 years down the line he is most certainly responsible for an iPhone decline 12 years down the line or so. Or is the number of years a arbitrary cutoff you decided?


Does the air 2 sell for that price 24x7x365? If not, it's a sale price, whatever you payed is the price.
many customers bought it for that price so its the relevant price

No the chip is better and more power efficient.
The chip loses in multi core. So no surprise its more efficient.

Apple is doing well, seen the stock price recently? Last quarters earnings? Apple is doing well in spite of the doom and gloom.
That has nothing to do with the iPad which is the subject of discussion. The price is up because of the OLED iPhone Edition. If Tim doesnt deliver the goods, the price will come crashing down


Right, he's just in jail.
Not only a deflection but also incorrect. We are taking of whether he is blamed for any sales decline when he was not at the helm. By the way he isnt the founder of Samsung


I'm waiting until my sp4 gets 10 hours of battery life watching netflix downloaded movies.
I am waiting until the iPad Pro can run 10 apps simultaneously while listening to Play Music and using a trackpad to navigate


Hyperbole. It doesn't take much to infect windows from all of the vectors of attack.
It doesnt take much to infect Windows but it will only get infected if you havent any degree of common sense in which case no gadget is safe


Maybe they didn't want to deal with burn-in and other oled issues.
That cant be it because they just placed an order for OLED panels with Samsung for their latest iPhone


I need a tablet that goes the distance with decent battery life and can accomplish what I need.
Get a Surface 3


What will you say when sales start picking up due to the entry level ipad?
I will believe it when I see it. In my opinion sales will only show a marked increase once the OLED bezel less iPad comes out on the market


That's because the ios on the ipad is tuned properly for good battery life.
Thats because iOS lacks real multi tasking unlike Windows. For a chip to be better it needs to be good in both single and multi core otherwise by your logic an Intel 7700K> AMD Ryzen 1800


I don't need support on my sp4 for legacy applications, just one or two in case the internet goes down. The remote desktop on my ipad works very well for my needs and the battery life fantastic vs the 4 hours on my sp4 (in battery saving mode)
Remote Desktop is slow.I do use a lot of legacy apps and if I need tablet apps I use Blue Stacks. With constant use my iPad will be dead in 7 hour, my laptop in 12 hours
 
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I haven't used an android tablet in years but I was more talking with respect to battery life, where android tablet quote over 10 hours of use.

OK got it -- my apologies for the confusion. Agreed on point. Although I do get a full 12 hours on my iPad Pro (12.9) using it at work with my main desktop. It depends on use I would guess.
 
Yet I havent heard of Mac infections... Windows can get infected but it doesnt until you try to infect it. Some common sense would go a long way in maintaining virus free PCs



Those who wanted an Air 2 have already got one in the 4 years it was on the market. A cross between the iPad Air and an Air 2 is not going to help any.



Thats your anecdotal experience. According to Microsoft its just an hour less. And to put forth my anecdotal experience neither my iPad Pro or Air 2 lasts 10 hours with constant use as Apple claims.



60g lesser weight isnt a groundbreaking difference. Battery life is more because the iPad does less. Lets limit the Windows tablet to suspend all background processes and let us use only 2 apps at one time, and terminate the apps in memory every 8 hours and see who wins



You only own a Surface Pro. The reviews I am posting are customers with both an iPad Pro and Surface Pro and have used both for extensive periods of time



Both have the same amounf of compromises. The iPad has worse fragmentation because of features being split between the pro 12.9,9.7 and the Mini while there are only 2 surfaces on the market



Lets play along with your logic for a while and admit that for an artist an iPad Pro is better.But its useless for a dot net developer. On the other hand the Surface is perfectly serviceable for an artist whilst also getting the job done for a developer.



My antivirus updates every 2 seconds


I never claimed anything about netbooks or 2006 era PCs.



Its worse because when I pay for a Surface Pro 4, I get extra features while when I pay for an iPad Pro 12.9 I get an inferior screen and the same battery life



If Steve is responsible for iPad decline 7 years down the line he is most certainly responsible for an iPhone decline 12 years down the line or so. Or is the number of years a arbitrary cutoff you decided?



many customers bought it for that price so its the relevant price


The chip loses in multi core. So no surprise its more efficient.


That has nothing to do with the iPad which is the subject of discussion. The price is up because of the OLED iPhone Edition. If Tim doesnt deliver the goods, the price will come crashing down



Not only a deflection but also incorrect. We are taking of whether he is blamed for any sales decline when he was not at the helm. By the way he isnt the founder of Samsung



I am waiting until the iPad Pro can run 10 apps simultaneously while listening to Play Music and using a trackpad to navigate



It doesnt take much to infect Windows but it will only get infected if you havent any degree of common sense in which case no gadget is safe



That cant be it because they just placed an order for OLED panels with Samsung for their latest iPhone



Get a Surface 3



I will believe it when I see it. In my opinion sales will only show a marked increase once the OLED bezel less iPad comes out on the market



Thats because iOS lacks real multi tasking unlike Windows. For a chip to be better it needs to be good in both single and multi core otherwise by your logic an Intel 7700K> AMD Ryzen 1800



Remote Desktop is slow.I do use a lot of legacy apps and if I need tablet apps I use Blue Stacks. With constant use my iPad will be dead in 7 hour, my laptop in 12 hours
- Viruses: Yes those who try are called researches. For the rest of the population, virus writers are getting more sophisticated, which is why M/S has been publishing loads of zero day vulnerabilities fixes. Viruses can be gotten on all platforms.
- Ipad: Apple released the latest model to make their products accessible downmarket. I think their strategy will work. I'm replacing my ipad 2 with one of these.
- Battery life: My anecdotal experience accounts for a lot, because it will affect a future purchase decision. Whether you agree with it or not.
- Trade-offs: less trade-offs in the ipad pro.
- Pencil: ipad pencil is better/superior.
- Compromises: ipad has less for what it is.
- Vulnerabilities: your a/v could update every two seconds, but zero day vulnerabilities keep o/s developers up at night.
- w10: this was your conversation, I proved you wrong.
- Who gets the credit and blame: keep moving the goal posts.
- Sale price: not related to msrp as it's not consistent. While the price is the price, that is not the guaranteed selling price.
- Apple is doing very well as well as the ipad line. Most tablet manufacturers would die to get sales as lousy as the ipad. (which IMO is SJ fault as discussed)
- Samsung - The president is in jail, what does that tell you?
- Viruses: a lot of people don't have common sense and that is why the antivirus industry exists.
- OLED - still a rumor until proven fact. But apple did not want to deal with burn-in and crappy oled technology previously.
- Choices: back again to picking last generation, most performance and best battery life. That's seemingly what you get with Microsoft products. 2 out of three.
- Multitasking: I'd rather have battery life in a tablet, which the ipad gets 10 hours.
- RDP: doesn't matter what "YOU" think of it. I use it just fine from my ipad.
 
- Viruses: Yes those who try are called researches. For the rest of the population, virus writers are getting more sophisticated, which is why M/S has been publishing loads of zero day vulnerabilities fixes. Viruses can be gotten on all platforms.
Microsoft issues updates because its a part of the process of keeping the platform safe. That does not automatically imply that its impossible to keep Windows virus free. Even iOS gets security fixes and its nigh almost impossible to infect it. If you dont go looking for trouble, it wont come looking for you. The vast amount of Windows users are used to clicking on those free download blobs, not reading the installation processes and installing all kinds of crap on their PCs and even adware and after 5 years start complaining on forums on how Windows slows down

Ipad: Apple released the latest model to make their products accessible downmarket. I think their strategy will work. I'm replacing my ipad 2 with one of these.
Its not going to save them because its essentially a downgraded Air 2 with an A9 thrown in. And its not that much cheaper that its going to convert tanking sales into record sales when Mini sales are also down


Battery life: My anecdotal experience accounts for a lot, because it will affect a future purchase decision. Whether you agree with it or not.
We are not discussing your future purchase decisions. Surface is getting more popular than iPad low battery life or not. Seems customers dont mind trading a bit of battery life for the huge leap in functionality. I know I would. There's only so many years I can wait for Apple to come out with a proper upgrade to the iPad before I become one of those statistics

- Trade-offs: less trade-offs in the ipad pro.
Just a blanket statement repeated without any justification. iPads have compromises with the display and the battery so that you pay more get less. Surface has battery and heat. Next

Pencil: ipad pencil is better/superior.
Anecdotal. Tons of reviews are saying the Surface Pen is better and jusdging by the article Surface is more popular so your experience seems to be isolated

Compromises: ipad has less for what it is.
iPad Pro 12.9 is charging Surface prices for less

Vulnerabilities: your a/v could update every two seconds, but zero day vulnerabilities keep o/s developers up at night.
That applies for every company. I bet even Apple developers are doing the same. And to be perfectly honest if your PC got infected by a virus which bypasses Microsoft Smartscreen,the standard virus signatures and behaviorual detection you were playing with fire on your PC

w10: this was your conversation, I proved you wrong.

Pull out the quote where I compare with 2006 computers. When I call a device old I dont refer to a device from 20 years ago
Who gets the credit and blame: keep moving the goal posts.
Pretty straightforward as far as I am concerned. There werent any declines during the Steve era so any decline post Steve era is Tim's fault. You are the one saying that the 7 years later, the reason for the iPad declining (with hardly any competition in the market) is lack of Jobs foresight. So I was wondering by what time will you finally hold Tim responsible for it

Sale price: not related to msrp as it's not consistent. While the price is the price, that is not the guaranteed selling price.
Call it consistent or not. The Air 2 was selling at those prices during holiday sales and tons of people bought it at that price just like how this new iPad just days after launch is selling at 299

[/QUOTE]Apple is doing very well as well as the ipad line. Most tablet manufacturers would die to get sales as lousy as the ipad.[/QUOTE]
There arent any tablet manufacturers in the competition with iPad currently except Microsoft. No one is interested in tablets. I am not saying the iPad isnt doing well but compared to what it used to be it doesnt look good

Samsung - The president is in jail, what does that tell you?
That he was just not as lucky as the Apple executive who narrowly escaped jail time. And you continue to deflect with this quote as he is not Samsung's founder

- Viruses: a lot of people don't have common sense and that is why the antivirus industry exists.
Anti viruses used to exist even for iOS till a year or two ago before Apple took them down. That doesnt imply people were getting infected on iOS.

I have never heard of Macs being infected enmasse and yet I see anti viruses in the market

- OLED - still a rumor until proven fact. But apple did not want to deal with burn-in and crappy oled technology previously.
Its going to happen whether you like it or not. The only question which remains is the price.

Apple did not go OLED because OLED costs more and if hurts their profit margins which is their ultimate priority just like how they were offering 16GB base for years when the competiton is on 32. Now the competition is on 64 and Apple is on 32.

Choices: back again to picking last generation, most performance and best battery life. That's seemingly what you get with Microsoft products. 2 out of three.
If I want to get the fastest iPad I have to get a last gen product.If I want the best display I have to pick a slower iPad. If I want the highest RAM, I have to buy a last gen product.

Multitasking: I'd rather have battery life in a tablet, which the ipad gets 10 hours.
It doesnt do much for a PC replacement. I never get manufacturer advertised battery life on any of my tablets.

RDP: doesn't matter what "YOU" think of it. I use it just fine from my ipad.
I am not thinking of it. It is slow. And when I pay 700 slow is the last thing I want
 
Microsoft issues updates because its a part of the process of keeping the platform safe. That does not automatically imply that its impossible to keep Windows virus free. Even iOS gets security fixes and its nigh almost impossible to infect it. If you dont go looking for trouble, it wont come looking for you. The vast amount of Windows users are used to clicking on those free download blobs, not reading the installation processes and installing all kinds of crap on their PCs and even adware and after 5 years start complaining on forums on how Windows slows down
Basic nonsense. Your anecdotal experience does not translate into why there is a vast anti virus industry.

Its not going to save them because its essentially a downgraded Air 2 with an A9 thrown in. And its not that much cheaper that its going to convert tanking sales into record sales when Mini sales are also down
There is nothing to save, have you seen the most recent earnings call and stock price?

We are not discussing your future purchase decisions. Surface is getting more popular than iPad low battery life or not. Seems customers dont mind trading a bit of battery life for the huge leap in functionality. I know I would. There's only so many years I can wait for Apple to come out with a proper upgrade to the iPad before I become one of those statistics
I don't know what you are discussing, but I'm discussing how displeased I am with my sp4 battery life vs my iPad and how it may affect a future purchase decision.

Just a blanket statement repeated without any justification. iPads have compromises with the display and the battery so that you pay more get less. Surface has battery and heat. Next
I agree there is a lot of hyperbole in this conversation.

Anecdotal. Tons of reviews are saying the Surface Pen is better and jusdging by the article Surface is more popular so your experience seems to be isolated
Tons of reviews are saying the iPad Pro pen is the best out there? Can you draw with the sp4 pen in the same way as the Apple Pencil? Case closed. My experience mirrors those who know what they are discussing.

iPad Pro 12.9 is charging Surface prices for less
By whose line in the sand?

That applies for every company. I bet even Apple developers are doing the same. And to be perfectly honest if your PC got infected by a virus which bypasses Microsoft Smartscreen,the standard virus signatures and behaviorual detection you were playing with fire on your PC
Of course it does, viruses know no bounds.

Pull out the quote where I compare with 2006 computers. When I call a device old I dont refer to a device from 20 years ago
You are the one that brought up hardware after you made the claim that windows 10 runs better than windows xp. Period.

Pretty straightforward as far as I am concerned. There werent any declines during the Steve era so any decline post Steve era is Tim's fault. You are the one saying that the 7 years later, the reason for the iPad declining (with hardly any competition in the market) is lack of Jobs foresight. So I was wondering by what time will you finally hold Tim responsible for it
Not really, it took time for the tablet makers to catch up and then Jobs' strategy backfired on Timmy. Now Timmy is cleaning up the mess. So yes, that is what I am saying.

Call it consistent or not. The Air 2 was selling at those prices during holiday sales and tons of people bought it at that price just like how this new iPad just days after launch is selling at 299
Spin this any way you want. Are you claiming you don't know the difference between msrp and sale price?

Apple is doing very well as well as the ipad line. Most tablet manufacturers would die to get sales as lousy as the ipad.
There arent any tablet manufacturers in the competition with iPad currently except Microsoft. No one is interested in tablets. I am not saying the iPad isnt doing well but compared to what it used to be it doesnt look good
Really? Dell? Asus?

That he was just not as lucky as the Apple executive who narrowly escaped jail time. And you continue to deflect with this quote as he is not Samsung's founder
There is a difference between the two, one was found guilty.

Anti viruses used to exist even for iOS till a year or two ago before Apple took them down. That doesnt imply people were getting infected on iOS.
Nor does it mean iOS is 100% secure. Is any environment?

I have never heard of Macs being infected enmasse and yet I see anti viruses in the market
And what does that tell you?

Its going to happen whether you like it or not. The only question which remains is the price.

Apple did not go OLED because OLED costs more and if hurts their profit margins which is their ultimate priority just like how they were offering 16GB base for years when the competiton is on 32. Now the competition is on 64 and Apple is on 32.
Still a rumor.

If I want to get the fastest iPad I have to get a last gen product.If I want the best display I have to pick a slower iPad. If I want the highest RAM, I have to buy a last gen product.
No it's the current gen, there is no replacement for the iPad Pro. Unlike the surface which to have good battery life I have to buy the last gen product.

It doesnt do much for a PC replacement. I never get manufacturer advertised battery life on any of my tablets.


I am not thinking of it. It is slow. And when I pay 700 slow is the last thing I want
For my use case it works perfectly and lets me have 10 hours of use on my iPad.
 



The Microsoft Surface has been ranked the highest in overall consumer satisfaction, and six points above Apple's iPad in second place, according to J.D. Power's 2017 U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study. This marks the first top spot win for Microsoft in all six years that J.D. Power has published the Tablet Satisfaction Study, with the company earning a total 855 satisfaction score out of a potential 1,000 points.

The J.D. Power U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study measures customer satisfaction in the tablet market by looking at five areas: performance (28 percent); ease of operation (22 percent); features (22 percent); styling and design (17 percent); and cost (11 percent). The study accounts for 2,238 tablet owners who have owned their current device for less than one year, with participants being questioned between October and December 2016.

With these rankings, Microsoft has received the designation as "among the best" on the market, while Apple at 849 points is "better than most."

surface-vs-ipad.jpg

According to J.D. Power, Microsoft's win this year "is largely due to its top rankings in the features and styling & design factors." The company earned top marks in categories related to the variety of pre-loaded applications, internet connectivity, and availability of manufacturer-supported accessories. This last category highlights the Surface's versatility, according to consumers, who reportedly "have the highest incidences of accessory use" with Microsoft Surface when compared to competitors.

Specifically, the Microsoft Surface's stylus saw a 48 percent usage rate in comparison to 27 percent of the industry average, while the tablet's add-on keyboard had a 51 percent usage rate in comparison to just a 14 percent industry average. Rounding out the Surface's pros were its variety of input/output ports (like a microSD card slot, USB 3.0, and 3.5mm headphone jack) and amount of internal storage available.
Microsoft also beat Apple in areas like the size of the tablet, quality of materials used, and attractiveness of tablet design. Microsoft's customers who are using the Surface Pro line of tablets are said to largely be early adopters (51 percent), younger than the customers of its competitors, and "more likely to consider productivity features as important." Microsoft customers tend to list productivity-related tasks as "very important" in comparison to industry average, like emailing, word processing, and banking.

jd-power-tablet-study.jpg

Overall, J.D. Power found that customer satisfaction with their tablets is rising, with the study average sitting at 841 and increasing 21 index points from the six-months-ago iteration of the study. Customers are also tending to choose large screens, with satisfaction at 869 points for customers with screens measuring 10 inches or more, 850 points for screens 8-10 inches or more, and 824 for screens less than 8 inches.

More key findings include:

Driving the selection process: Lower price and past experience are the most commonly cited reasons for tablet selection among customers (22% each). Reputation is next at 19%.
Data plans increase satisfaction: Nearly one-third (32%) of customers have a data plan with their tablet. Overall satisfaction among customers with a data plan is 863 vs. 834 among those without such a plan.

Apple has moved up and down J.D. Power's Tablet Satisfaction Study throughout the years, earning the top spot on some iterations of the study, while falling back down a few months later in others. Previous first place holders include Amazon and its Fire Tablets, as well as Samsung. When it's on top, Apple has used J.D. Power's ratings in numerous web campaigns in the past.

Article Link: Microsoft Surface Beats iPad in Design, Productivity, and Accessory Use in New J.D. Power Study



The Microsoft Surface has been ranked the highest in overall consumer satisfaction, and six points above Apple's iPad in second place, according to J.D. Power's 2017 U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study. This marks the first top spot win for Microsoft in all six years that J.D. Power has published the Tablet Satisfaction Study, with the company earning a total 855 satisfaction score out of a potential 1,000 points.

The J.D. Power U.S. Tablet Satisfaction Study measures customer satisfaction in the tablet market by looking at five areas: performance (28 percent); ease of operation (22 percent); features (22 percent); styling and design (17 percent); and cost (11 percent). The study accounts for 2,238 tablet owners who have owned their current device for less than one year, with participants being questioned between October and December 2016.

With these rankings, Microsoft has received the designation as "among the best" on the market, while Apple at 849 points is "better than most."

surface-vs-ipad.jpg

According to J.D. Power, Microsoft's win this year "is largely due to its top rankings in the features and styling & design factors." The company earned top marks in categories related to the variety of pre-loaded applications, internet connectivity, and availability of manufacturer-supported accessories. This last category highlights the Surface's versatility, according to consumers, who reportedly "have the highest incidences of accessory use" with Microsoft Surface when compared to competitors.

Specifically, the Microsoft Surface's stylus saw a 48 percent usage rate in comparison to 27 percent of the industry average, while the tablet's add-on keyboard had a 51 percent usage rate in comparison to just a 14 percent industry average. Rounding out the Surface's pros were its variety of input/output ports (like a microSD card slot, USB 3.0, and 3.5mm headphone jack) and amount of internal storage available.
Microsoft also beat Apple in areas like the size of the tablet, quality of materials used, and attractiveness of tablet design. Microsoft's customers who are using the Surface Pro line of tablets are said to largely be early adopters (51 percent), younger than the customers of its competitors, and "more likely to consider productivity features as important." Microsoft customers tend to list productivity-related tasks as "very important" in comparison to industry average, like emailing, word processing, and banking.

jd-power-tablet-study.jpg

Overall, J.D. Power found that customer satisfaction with their tablets is rising, with the study average sitting at 841 and increasing 21 index points from the six-months-ago iteration of the study. Customers are also tending to choose large screens, with satisfaction at 869 points for customers with screens measuring 10 inches or more, 850 points for screens 8-10 inches or more, and 824 for screens less than 8 inches.

More key findings include:

Driving the selection process: Lower price and past experience are the most commonly cited reasons for tablet selection among customers (22% each). Reputation is next at 19%.
Data plans increase satisfaction: Nearly one-third (32%) of customers have a data plan with their tablet. Overall satisfaction among customers with a data plan is 863 vs. 834 among those without such a plan.

Apple has moved up and down J.D. Power's Tablet Satisfaction Study throughout the years, earning the top spot on some iterations of the study, while falling back down a few months later in others. Previous first place holders include Amazon and its Fire Tablets, as well as Samsung. When it's on top, Apple has used J.D. Power's ratings in numerous web campaigns in the past.

Article Link: Microsoft Surface Beats iPad in Design, Productivity, and Accessory Use in New J.D. Power Study
I am interested in getting a new tablet. I have the old IPad ll. I am a photographer and I shoot into my Ipad all the time on location. I use an Eyefi card in one of my card slots on my Canon 5D Mark lll's and it does a great job of previewing my set up when used with the Eyefi app. It's like how I used to use a Polaroid back on my Mamiya RZ. Once I like my set up I take the card out and use the CF card to record my RAW files. Apple really needs to hit a home run with their iPad. Right now I dont think they are doing that. I am hoping the new Ipad that is supposed to come out in June or later this fall will have some new features. I want to see a micro SD slot for increased memory. That way I can shoot high res JPEG into the iPad and RAW's into the CF card, I would like the Ipad to be almost like a laptop, like the Surface has done. I just dont like Windows operating system. I know Mac OS well and just want to stick with it to match my other Mac computers.
 
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I want to see a micro SD slot for increased memory. That way I can shoot high res JPEG into the iPad and RAW's into the CF card, I would like the Ipad to be almost like a laptop, like the Surface has done.

Sorry dude, sd-slot is never going to happen. Apple wants you to buy the version with maximum space in it. These days there are some extremely fast cards out there. People would buy the 32gb model and put cards in it. Thats not what Apple wants. Also an SD slot would invade the simplicity of the design. I dont think Apple would like that.
 
Agreed. If I wasn't so ingrained in the Apple ecosystem I would have a surface. If nothing else, I really think the iPad should steal the idea of the kickstand. I would improve the iPad a lot.
YESSS! It may seem like a little thing, but having to do two-ish movements to go from tablet to using the Smart Keyboard/cover (whatever it is called) gets annoying.
 
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To me, the Surface Pro is the tablet hybrid that does what the iPad Pro has claimed to do but doesn't.

I don't like saying that, because I would have strongly preferred the iPad Pro & its refinement and lovely pen if that wasn't the case. But for general productivity, I don't think there's much comparison. Apple has one of the finest desktop operating systems ever made - one that would arguably work well even with a touch screen with only minor adaption - and yet they chose not to use it with their flagship tablet.

If the next iPad Pro implements OS X, I'll buy one the day it comes out. Until then, the Surface Pro it is...
 
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