Microsoft Surface Estimated to Have Sold Only 1.7 Million Units Since Launch

[Michael Goff]

I mean that Microsoft seems completely uninterested in developing Windows for the desktop. Sure Windows 8 still has a desktop mode, but it's just a "by the way, it can still do that if you really want it" feature. They're not even advertising it. All they can say is "Windows 8 is awesome because it has tiles and touch support" which is completely irrelevant for a desktop PC user.

While Apple is trying to innovate in both iOS and OS X, Microsoft only seems interested in their tablet OS solution which no one really uses on a tablet. And yes, it is likely going to be the most used OS, but on a desktop PC. So Windows 8 should have great desktop features. Currently it's almost identical to Windows 7. They put the desktop OS aside and spent all their effort developing a layer into the OS that won't be used on a device for which it was designed.

And yet Windows 8's desktop works just as well as any other desktop OS still.

So a doctor saving lives is not real work?

A road crew painting white lines on a road to avoid crashes is not real work?

Playing a musical instrument for other people's pleasure is not real work?

Real work comes in many facets. It doesn't always involve a desk, a keyboard and a monitor.

Saw a guy once. In a nightclub. Beat mixing a 3 hour set on two iPads with two old school iPods 120gb strapped in. To him, that's real work. The 500 people who paid $60 to get in the door plus drinks paid for his excellent real work.

And not a keyboard in sight

I would never argue that you can't do real work with an iPad, that is a horrible argument. I will simply argue that it won't be able to do all work, hence why there will always be a place for traditional PCs.

 

[asthamapheo]

i thought the surface pro would have done better that but it's quite shocking to see the whole surface line catch only 1.7M customers.

 

[GoldenJoe]

Yes, but if a company has a monopoly they don't have to work as hard to get those dollars from the consumers, as the consumers will have few other options other than to buy their products. They can even glean MORE dollars from the consumers in many cases this way, as with no competition they can set their prices high and spend less on developing new & better products, leading to higher profits. If a company has to cut their prices to compete, and spend tons on R&D to make a product that's better than their competitor, the profits could well be smaller.

Read the second paragraph of my post this time.

 

[Renzatic]

Yep, just because ipads are dominant (somewhat) doesn't mean that Windows doesn't outnumber iOS and OSx put together. Personally I find Windows more intuitive, simple things like the taskbar versus the awful awful dock bar in OSx.

Hey, I like the dock. It's purdy and it jiggles a bunch.

As for the tablets, I am just not getting what people don't like. I see a LOT of chest thumping without real world experience, it's like if I never used an ipad ever but came on here telling everyone how much it sucked. Metro itself is very nice after the 8.1 update and IMO is just as good as iOS, better in some ways, worse in others, with the only obvious caveat is the app store, but man give MS some props here they really populated their app store pretty quickly. They are working hard on it. I don't know why people hate just to hate, it's a very viable, usable and fun platform, give it a chance, you may be surprised.

Most people here are griping about Win8 because they're on the griping bandwagon, and want to look cool. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is.

But there are some legitimate complains about the current state of Windows on tablets. See, is Metro is pretty damn good for touch (very few people here will admit to it, but touch IE's interface beats the crap out of Safari on iOS), and yeah, the app store is getting larger and larger every day. But the thing is, it doesn't yet offer you the touch equivalent to the desktop. You still have to go to the desktop if you want to run something like Office or Photoshop. It's that split personality that makes Win8 a hard sell to the average consumer. Jumping back and forth between the two doesn't make for the smoothest, most cohesive experience around.

iOS is starting to improve on the powerful productivity app front. Yeah, they currently feel like the lite version of their desktop counterparts, but they're still pretty good. The only thing MS has for Metro is OneNote. The rest mirrors the iPads first year. They're all fun and informative apps, but nothing you'd use to get anything done with.

Imagine being able to use Office and IE side by side in a touch environment. Just swishing between the two with a simple single finger gesture. Imagine being able to use a full featured version of Photoshop with an actual pressure sensitive stylus. Imagine being able to use your Xbox360 controller paired to your tablet with bluetooth to play some Xbox360 quality games. Imagine all of it being done in the touchcentric environment Metro offers. If MS did all this, the Surfaces would be flying off store shelves.

 

[whiteboytrash]

And yet Windows 8's desktop works just as well as any other desktop OS still.



I would never argue that you can't do real work with an iPad, that is a horrible argument. I will simply argue that it won't be able to do all work, hence why there will always be a place for traditional PCs.

Ever seen a DJ with an IBM thinkpad or Dell? not possible.

Can't do all the work with an iPad and you can't do it all with a desktop/laptop.

They are simply different devices.

MS appear to want to put the desktop into tablet form. Others not so much. Which is why iPad/Android own the market.

 

[Black Magic]

People arent griping just to gripe. SpineDoc and Renz are the minority when it comes to the Windows 8 Lovefest.

SpineDoc mentioned earlier that the Metro UI is actually good now with Windows 8.1. Do you see what that really means? He is referencing a BETA software that is not even out yet, but the current software that is out (Windows 8) currently sucks. 8.1 should not even be mentioned right now because its not out for the masses and Surface doesn't have it yet. Funny thing too because a while back on this very forum we had the same discussion on how RT sucks but PRO would rock according to him. Here we are about a year later....

Bottom line: Surface and Windows 8 are not desired by many folks and anyone that states that opinion comes off as a hater to you two plain and simple.

 

[spinedoc77]

Actually to stay in desktop mode on a Windows 8 machine, you have to do some serious tweaking. First of all you have to change program associations for some file extensions like photos and such to name one tweak. Not very intuitive and user friendly for the average consumer.

Yeah because it's so hard to task switch from a metro program to the desktop. Why do people continue to try to make themselves seem dumber just so they can beat their chest about how "simple" iOS is. Windows 8 isn't freakin rocket science, it really isn't. My mom, who is the most computer illiterate person in the world is currently loving the new laptop I bought for her and even she doesn't complain about what some people gripe and exaggerate about on these forums.

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Because when you say PC its pretty much synonymous with Windows. Those bad experiences live on in the minds of the consumers and hurt Microsoft's brand. Again, nobody wants that Windows/PC experience on their mobile devices. You see an ad for Windows Phone and it's a complete turn off just on the name alone.

Outside of canning Balmer, I think creating a new brand, OS, ecosystem and vision would be just about the best thing Microsoft could do to get back in the hunt on the consumer side. No chance in hell this will happen as MS is already prepping Surface RT 2 with some tweaks like AD compatibility and such.

This is fantasy, you don't see people having Post Traumatic Stress Disorder over having an issue 10 years ago in Windows. I think y ou are right, the windows name is a turn off, but not for what happened 10 years ago to a consumer, rather it's a bad name because of the stupid stuff that MS does like abandon Zune, abandon WP7, soon to be abandon RT, etc etc.

Yeah I agree, Balmer needs to be canned, for a guy running a multi billion dollar corporation he's a moron. But I think throwing away the windows name is utter suicide, contrary to what you think this is what people flock to. Surface RT2, HUGE HUGE mistake, agreed there, but once again they still have Balmer.

 

[APlotdevice]

I don't think that's the case. I can throw pretty much everything at my Atom tablet and it behaves very well. The only exception is games, but even the surface Pro is awful at games so I kind of think that's a lost cause, at least for this generation. IMO and experience with almost every atom tablet out there MS could have definitely released an atom powered surface variant and I'll bet it would have done well.

I'm not just talking about performance. I mean in terms of battery life and wieght. Any tablet that's going to go up against the iPad needs to be able to run for at least 9 hours, and can't be an ounce heavier. At this point is should also have a high-density display.

 

[Black Magic]

Yeah because it's so hard to task switch from a metro program to the desktop. Why do people continue to try to make themselves seem dumber just so they can beat their chest about how "simple" iOS is. Windows 8 isn't freakin rocket science, it really isn't. My mom, who is the most computer illiterate person in the world is currently loving the new laptop I bought for her and even she doesn't complain about what some people gripe and exaggerate about on these forums.

Are you really arguing that configuring file extension associations are intuitive and user friendly for the average user? Are you really arguing that Surface which has a half ass OS which is touch friendly sometimes and mouse friendly other times is intuitive and the way to go? Seriously? Having a Metro IE and a Desktop IE on the same tablet is user friendly?

Either you work for Microsoft, have stock in Microsoft, or the biggest fan boy alive because the market doesn't agree. Most of this forum doesnt agree. Most of the interweb doesnt agree. You gotta be starting to feel lonely on this at some point.

 

[Renzatic]

People arent griping just to gripe. SpineDoc and Renz are the minority when it comes to the Windows 8 Lovefest.

It's hardly a lovefest, man. I don't think either one of us have unabashedly praised Windows 8. Hell, we don't even totally agree with each other about it should best be used on a tablet. But we both see the potential for the platform, and how we'd like the future of tablets to unfold.

Windows 8 is far from being all good, but it's also not the horrible crime against humanity it's made out to be by some people here.

SpineDoc mentioned earlier that the Metro UI is actually good now with Windows 8.1. Do you see what that really means? He is referencing a BETA software that is not even out yet, but the current software that is out (Windows 8) currently sucks. 8.1 should not even be mentioned right now because its not out for the masses and Surface doesn't have it yet. Funny thing too because a while back on this very forum we had the same discussion on how RT sucks but PRO would rock according to him. Here we are about a year later....

What? That's dumb. You can talk about something that isn't released yet, specially if you've got hands-on time with it, which Spinedoc does. The features I've seen 8.1 sporting are big improvements over what came out with 8. It looks to be smoother, better though out, and should've been what we all got back in October.

I've said similar things about iOS7 on here before. It's not released to the masses yet, yet we've got a forum dedicated to it not even a couple of slots below here. Hell, talking about things that aren't even out yet is about 3/4ths the reason Macrumors is even around.

 

[Black Magic]

It's hardly a lovefest, man. I don't think either one of us have unabashedly praised Windows 8. Hell, we don't even totally agree with each other about it should best be used on a tablet. But we both see the potential for the platform, and how we'd like the future of tablets to unfold.

Windows 8 is far from being all good, but it's also not the horrible crime against humanity it's made out to be by some people here.



What? That's dumb. You can talk about something that isn't released yet, specially if you've got hands-on time with it, which Spinedoc does. The features I've seen 8.1 sporting are big improvements over what came out with 8. It looks to be smoother, better though out, and should've been what we all got back in October.

I've said similar things about iOS7 on here before. It's not released to the masses yet, yet we've got a forum dedicated to it not even a couple of slots below here. Hell, talking about things that aren't even out yet is about 3/4ths the reason Macrumors is even around.

The point being made is we are discussing the flop that is the Surface/Surface Pro and Windows 8 in the present form which lead to the lackluster sales and poor adoption rate. We aren't talking about Windows 8.1 or Surface RT 2 or Pro 2 and how it may possibly be the best thing since sliced bread. Think about it. Mostly everyone in this thread says Windows 8 and Surface sucks right now. SpineDoc pops in and says it doesnt suck and windows 8.1 is super awesome. It's a tangent and not relevant to the current discussion.

 

[Michael Goff]

Ever seen a DJ with an IBM thinkpad or Dell? not possible.

Can't do all the work with an iPad and you can't do it all with a desktop/laptop.

They are simply different devices.

MS appear to want to put the desktop into tablet form. Others not so much. Which is why iPad/Android own the market.

Which could work for some people, though I'm thinking their biggest hope in the tablet market as opposed to the emerging hybrid market is actually Windows RT. Imagine if you had a device with no desktop but had basically full Office. It offers one of the best browsers, good battery life, no fans or need to disperse heat, and performed rather well.

That is where I see Windows RT being if they keep working on it. It isn't completely there yet, there's still a need for the desktop, but it is slowly getting there. It might never replace an iPad or an Android tablet for everyone, but that's because tablet purchases these are as much about the ecosystem as it is the device and OS itself.

But within a year or two? I see RT being extremely competitive.

 

[Renzatic]

The point being made is we are discussing the flop that is the Surface/Surface Pro and Windows 8 in the present form which lead to the lackluster sales and poor adoption rate. We aren't talking about Windows 8.1 or Surface RT 2 or Pro 2 and how it may possibly be the best thing since sliced bread. Think about it. Mostly everyone is this thread says Windows 8 and Surface sucks right now. SpineDoc pops in and says it doesnt suck and windows 8.1 is super awesome. It tangent and not relevant to the current discussion.

So? Discussions evolve. The future of the Surface line and Windows 8.1 is the natural course the topic was likely to take. It's a perfectly cromulent thing to talk about.

And anyway, the thread has already been derailed and rerailed so many times already, I'm wondering why you feel the need to suddenly steer it back now.

 

[Michael Goff]

Are you really arguing that configuring file extension associations are intuitive and user friendly for the average user? Are you really arguing that Surface which has a half ass OS which is touch friendly sometimes and mouse friendly other times is intuitive and the way to go? Seriously? Having a Metro IE and a Desktop IE on the same tablet is user friendly?

Either you work for Microsoft, have stock in Microsoft, or the biggest fan boy alive because the market doesn't agree. Most of this forum doesnt agree. Most of the interweb doesnt agree. You gotta be starting to feel lonely on this at some point.

The market is not the best indicator of a good product.

I'm not saying Windows 8 is the best product, or even great, but using a marketshare argument is bad.

 

[spinedoc77]

So a doctor saving lives is not real work?

A road crew painting white lines on a road to avoid crashes is not real work?

Playing a musical instrument for other people's pleasure is not real work?

Real work comes in many facets. It doesn't always involve a desk, a keyboard and a monitor.

Saw a guy once. In a nightclub. Beat mixing a 3 hour set on two iPads with two old school iPods 120gb strapped in. To him, that's real work. The 500 people who paid $60 to get in the door plus drinks paid for his excellent real work.

And not a keyboard in sight

What?!? I don't understand your point. You wanted to know what "real" work gets done on a computer, I gave you some examples. Not sure what a road crew has to do with it. I never said every job in the world required a keyboard, you really don't think anyone in the entire world is that incredibly stupid do you? Lol

 

[Black Magic]

So? Discussions evolve. The future of the Surface line and Windows 8.1 is the natural course the topic was likely to take. It's a perfectly cromulent thing to talk about.

And anyway, the thread has already been derailed and rerailed so many times already, I'm wondering why you feel the need to suddenly steer it back now.

Just hard to have a debate when the people you are debating with keeps moving the target and adding future products/rumors as counter points.

 

[mrhick01]

Well, although the implementation was cheesy, MS is spot on in identifying Apple's demographic and you can't blame them for going after it (again).

Not to come across as condescending but... "Grown ups" use Windows machines - kiddies use Apple devices. Just look around you. iOS is designed mostly for "consumption" and that's enough for the young people until they're forced to go out into the world to earn a living and collaborating with other working adults.

Yes, I'm over generalizing but that's basically the way it is. As much as I wish Apple would make a dent in the enterprise market I can certainly see the value in catering to general consumerism.

And I find all the "smugness" here about Apple's paltry 10% market share in the OS market funny as hell. Plus, this market share would be considerably less if you count all of us that have Windows on our macs.

Apple has a considerable presence in enterprise with iPads and iPhones via BYOD, do they not?

 

[Renzatic]

Just hard to have a debate when the people you are debating with keeps moving the target and adding future products/rumors as counter points.

Eh, that's not really happening. When he brought 8.1 up, he was talking to me, not arguing with you.

 

[BaldiMac]

You wanted to know what "real" work gets done on a computer...

You added the part in bold by yourself.

Regardless, the point being made is that the term "real work" was just being used as a euphemism for "stuff you can't do on an iPad." Which is just silly. There is plenty of work that can be done conveniently on an iPad.

 

[Krazy Bill]

Apple has a considerable presence in enterprise with iPads and iPhones via BYOD, do they not?

Uh... no, they don't. At least not iPads. (The iPhone is mainly used as a cell phone - nothing "enterprise" about that).

What in god's name makes people think iOS is suited for an enterprise environment? Consumption-related tasks yes, but if you want to get something serious done or collaborate with the corporate world it falls way short.

 

[Xiroteus]

Why is it the perfect tablet?

Perfect may be a bit strong as the Surface Pro and tablets like the iPad are quite different. As for myself I like that I can install any program, I like that it has wacom pressure sensitivity, that I can play flash video! I still want that on tablets. I don't feel limited on a Windows based tablet like I would others. Of course being a full OS also means it has the weakness of them as well and come with their own annoying faults.

Originally Posted by tongxinshe View Post
There are plenty of stylus for iPad on the market, you don't have to wait for Apple to produce one.

Not close to the wacom pressure sensitive digitizer.

 

[spinedoc77]

Hey, I like the dock. It's purdy and it jiggles a bunch.



Most people here are griping about Win8 because they're on the griping bandwagon, and want to look cool. Don't ask me why. That's just the way it is.

But there are some legitimate complains about the current state of Windows on tablets. See, is Metro is pretty damn good for touch (very few people here will admit to it, but touch IE's interface beats the crap out of Safari on iOS), and yeah, the app store is getting larger and larger every day. But the thing is, it doesn't yet offer you the touch equivalent to the desktop. You still have to go to the desktop if you want to run something like Office or Photoshop. It's that split personality that makes Win8 a hard sell to the average consumer. Jumping back and forth between the two doesn't make for the smoothest, most cohesive experience around.

iOS is starting to improve on the powerful productivity app front. Yeah, they currently feel like the lite version of their desktop counterparts, but they're still pretty good. The only thing MS has for Metro is OneNote. The rest mirrors the iPads first year. They're all fun and informative apps, but nothing you'd use to get anything done with.

Imagine being able to use Office and IE side by side in a touch environment. Just swishing between the two with a simple single finger gesture. Imagine being able to use a full featured version of Photoshop with an actual pressure sensitive stylus. Imagine being able to use your Xbox360 controller paired to your tablet with bluetooth to play some Xbox360 quality games. Imagine all of it being done in the touchcentric environment Metro offers. If MS did all this, the Surfaces would be flying off store shelves.

Touch IE11 on Metro is freakin awesome, it blows away Safari. Although I never used Safari much, when I had an ipad I always used iCab which is a pretty nice iOS browser. I can't comment on the ipad 4, but on my ipad 3 I won't ever miss the constant checkerboarding and force closing when too many tabs were open. IE11 I can literally have dozens of tabs open with flash running, ads, video, etc and it doesn't slow down and I can switch to each tab instantly with no lag, checkerboarding or reloading. All this on the paltry atom processor with 2 gb of ram.

 

[APlotdevice]

Which could work for some people, though I'm thinking their biggest hope in the tablet market as opposed to the emerging hybrid market is actually Windows RT. Imagine if you had a device with no desktop but had basically full Office. It offers one of the best browsers, good battery life, no fans or need to disperse heat, and performed rather well.

That is where I see Windows RT being if they keep working on it. It isn't completely there yet, there's still a need for the desktop, but it is slowly getting there. It might never replace an iPad or an Android tablet for everyone, but that's because tablet purchases these are as much about the ecosystem as it is the device and OS itself.

But within a year or two? I see RT being extremely competitive.

I don't. A year ago RT had a reason to exist. Since then Intel has released Atom processors that come fairly close to the performance vs. efficiency of ARM processors. Not exactly the same, but most likely good enough. Furthermore Microsoft failed to delineate RT enough from Windows 8 proper, in the process creating considerable confusion for the average consumer. This confusion will almost certainly continue for so long as they keep making RT tablets.

 

[BaldiMac]

Uh... no, they don't. At least not iPads. (The iPhone is mainly used as a cell phone - nothing "enterprise" about that).

What in god's name makes people think iOS is suited for an enterprise environment? Consumption-related tasks yes, but if you want to get something serious done or collaborate with the corporate world it falls way short.

http://ipadinsight.com/category/ipad-in-the-enterprise-2/

Hmm. And I use an iPad for content creation and collaborate with the corporate world.

 

[spinedoc77]

People arent griping just to gripe. SpineDoc and Renz are the minority when it comes to the Windows 8 Lovefest.

SpineDoc mentioned earlier that the Metro UI is actually good now with Windows 8.1. Do you see what that really means? He is referencing a BETA software that is not even out yet, but the current software that is out (Windows 8) currently sucks. 8.1 should not even be mentioned right now because its not out for the masses and Surface doesn't have it yet. Funny thing too because a while back on this very forum we had the same discussion on how RT sucks but PRO would rock according to him. Here we are about a year later....

Bottom line: Surface and Windows 8 are not desired by many folks and anyone that states that opinion comes off as a hater to you two plain and simple.

So what? Are not a huge amount of posts on this site about iOS7?!?!? Does that mean that iOS6 doesn't arguably suck for some? As for me thinking Pro would rock, hey I'm guilty of actually thinking about things and changing my mind instead of sticking my head in the sand and griping about something I haven't even ever tried. I had high hopes for the surface Pro, I bought one and changed my mind, I even had a thread documenting my change of heart. If more people admitted changing their thought processes in this world I think it would be a better place.

I don't think of anyone as a hater, except for the haters, the people who gripe without real world experience, or the people who exaggerate, or the people who don't give any credit at all to what MS is doing. Yeah I agree, MS is going to crash and burn, but it's not because windows tablet isn't viable or useful, it's because MS are freakin morons.