Microsoft Surface Estimated to Have Sold Only 1.7 Million Units Since Launch

[JoEw]

I always have to chuckle when I see comments like this. I haven't had driver issues, BSOD or any other old windows annoyances since the days of Windows, 98/NT and Vista.

Windows 7 and 8 have been extremely stable for me. I still prefer OS X on my desktop and laptop but I really have no complaints about Windows 8 other than getting used to the new UI.

Cheers,

I am happy for you. But I have not, and i hardly would call myself non-tech savvy
Basic operation fails like this (network) really sell the windows reputation and it is justified. It simply was not built on a good structure, yes it has gotten more secure over years I believe some aspects of ease of use have gotten worse.
As someone who uses both operating systems I can assure you I am not biased, merely honest.

 

[rhett7660]

Pardon me?
It could do it all. It had support for any Windows app as well as specially developed tablet apps. It acted like a Cintiq too which was the biggest reason why I wanted one.

So did you get one? You said wanted. If not why not? If so, how do you like and are you still using it?

 

[Renzatic]

I am happy for you. But I have not, and i hardly would call myself non-tech savvy

It's hard to take your tech savvyness seriously when you say the reason you're getting driver failures is because Windows is built on a shaky foundation, disregarding the fact MS practically rewrote the entire driver architecture from scratch with Vista.

Seriously. I've jumped back and forth between wifi and ethernet on a laptop all in a very short amount of time, and it's given me absolutely zero problems. It's more likely your network card was bad than Windows deciding to suddenly corrupt the driver for no apparent reason.

 

[SockRolid]

Bottom line is though, Google is making A LOT of money. Google makes money from ads. Apple makes money from iOS and iToys from brilliant marketing. Microsoft, well nobody cares about them anymore ...

96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. Never forget that fact.
If you look at Google as an advertising company (almost) everything they do makes sense.

 

[Renzatic]

96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. Never forget that fact.
If you look at Google as an advertising company (almost) everything they do makes sense.

Well yeah, considering they openly admit this fact, and use it so anyone can use their services free of charge. It's true that nothing comes free. You're paying for just about everything you use one way or another. But Google isn't exactly being sneaky about how they make their money to provide everything to you.

 

[baryon]

Yeah. Not BSOD for me but others at work certainly have that issue. Have to say that Windows 7 is great as long as I reboot it every few days.

Same here. Windows has to be rebooted daily for me, otherwise I start getting weird problems, like the mouse pointer lagging sometimes, apps starting to act weird (slowing down, crashing, hanging for very long). If I reboot daily, these things don't happen as much. But there are so many other problems: drivers often crash or simply fail to load on startup, apps sometimes take ages to load (on a fresh fast computer), etc…

A big problem with Windows is how it can't read Raw files and PSDs, and it glitches a lot with TIFF files. Then you have the problem of old "startup items" still starting up even though you've uninstalled the program, annoying updates that nag you about rebooting while you're in the middle of something (if you're not around to dismiss the message because you're on lunch or something, you WILL lose unsaved files as Windows will simply force quit all apps just to install its useless updates).

Then you have the non-existant window management system. There's nothing like Exposé or Spaces, you still have to stick to Alt-Tabbing your way through apps like you did 20 years ago.

And the thing I hate the most: accidentally pressing the Windows key or the Alt key while retouching in Photoshop. It completely breaks whatever you're doing as it opens a menu. Alt being an important key in Photoshop, you have to press it all the time. Just this alone annoys me more than all the other problems combined.

Then you have Windows 8 which is not a desktop OS, so I guess Windows for the desktop is officially dead?

 

[Michael Goff]

Same here. Windows has to be rebooted daily for me, otherwise I start getting weird problems, like the mouse pointer lagging sometimes, apps starting to act weird (slowing down, crashing, hanging for very long). If I reboot daily, these things don't happen as much. But there are so many other problems: drivers often crash or simply fail to load on startup, apps sometimes take ages to load (on a fresh fast computer), etc…

A big problem with Windows is how it can't read Raw files and PSDs, and it glitches a lot with TIFF files. Then you have the problem of old "startup items" still starting up even though you've uninstalled the program, annoying updates that nag you about rebooting while you're in the middle of something (if you're not around to dismiss the message because you're on lunch or something, you WILL lose unsaved files as Windows will simply force quit all apps just to install its useless updates).

Then you have the non-existant window management system. There's nothing like Exposé or Spaces, you still have to stick to Alt-Tabbing your way through apps like you did 20 years ago.

And the thing I hate the most: accidentally pressing the Windows key or the Alt key while retouching in Photoshop. It completely breaks whatever you're doing as it opens a menu. Alt being an important key in Photoshop, you have to press it all the time. Just this alone annoys me more than all the other problems combined.

Then you have Windows 8 which is not a desktop OS, so I guess Windows for the desktop is officially dead?

By officially dead, I assume you mean "likely going to be the most used for the foreseeable future".

 

[SockRolid]

(re: Microsoft forgetting how to compete)

This is the crux of the problem, but I think you understate it. In truth, they've never really had to compete.

Good point. Bill Gates was a decent programmer. But his real strength was in business.
He bought the right to sell DOS from Seattle Computer Products for $25K, and cut a deal with IBM.
Microsoft's first smash hit, MS-DOS, was another company's product. But Microsoft got the IBM PC deal.
Then Gates somehow managed to negotiate Windows licensing contracts with PC manufacturers.
They all pay Microsoft for every PC they ship, whether or not it has Windows installed.

If you have a CEO who can do deals like that, you don't need to innovate or compete.
And that's what happened to Microsoft. Their greatest successes came from others' work and
ridiculous deals with PC OEMs and milking corporate IT clients who are locked in to Microsoft systems.
And their greatest strength was defending their near-monopoly in PC OS and Office software.

None of which can be leveraged in mobile computing.
Adds new depth to the term "post-PC era," doesn't it?

 

[Michael Goff]

(re: Microsoft forgetting how to compete)



Good point. Bill Gates was a decent programmer. But his real strength was in business.
He bought DOS for $50K, then cut a deal with IBM to have it installed on all IBM PCs.
Then he managed to negotiate Windows licensing contracts with PC manufacturers.
They pay Microsoft for every PC they ship, whether or not it has Windows installed.

If you have a CEO who can do deals like that, you don't need to innovate or compete.
And that's what happened to Microsoft. Their greatest successes came from
others' work.
And their greatest strength was defending their near-monopoly in PC OS and Office software.

None of which can be leveraged in mobile computing.
Adds new depth to the term "post-PC era," doesn't it?

Can we please kill this Post-PC myth? PLEASE?

 

[Renzatic]

Then you have Windows 8 which is not a desktop OS, so I guess Windows for the desktop is officially dead?

How is Windows 8 not a desktop OS?

Anyway, I think it's weird that people have so many problems with Windows that they have to reboot it ever day just to keep it working right.

Me? The longest I've had Windows up without rebooting was nearly 90 days on Windows 7, and then I only had to because I got one of those stupid reboot required updates. I had zero performance problems out of it, and this was on my old janky 4GB Opteron computer I built when XP was still the latest MS OS.

 

[Michael Goff]

How is Windows 8 not a desktop OS?

Anyway, I think it's weird that people have so many problems with Windows that they have to reboot it ever day just to keep it working right.

Me? The longest I've had Windows up without rebooting was nearly 90 days on Windows 7, and then I only had to because I got one of those stupid reboot required updates. I had zero performance problems out of it, and this was on my old janky 4GB Opteron computer I built when XP was still the latest MS OS.

People who want to push an idea that Windows is hard to use, and thus everyone should switch to their OS of choice, always seem to have the most problems with Windows. They also, somehow, happen to be the people who have "used every version of Windows" and so forth.

 

[SockRolid]

This is the crux of the problem, but I think you understate it. In truth, they've never really had to compete.

Can we please kill this Post-PC myth? PLEASE?

Having trouble letting go?

 

[zephonic]

iPads have been deployed by almost all Fortune 500 companies. Not one article I've read states that they have replaced the core system that they use. Same is true for any company that has deployed the Surface. the point of tablets is again, to support the base not be the base. The sooner MS realize this, the sooner they'll have a profitable product.

My wife works for one of those Fortune 500 companies. Until last year her arsenal comprised a Blackberry and LenovoThinkpad. This year? All of that is being phased out and replaced with an iPhone 5 and iPad. They primarily use Salesforce and Office.

Laptop/desktop no more. I don't know what they use on the backend, but if that is Linux-based, we are now looking at 3000+ employee company that no longer requires Windows licenses.

The implications are HUGE. MS has already introduced an Office app for iOS/Android and while they simply had to do that to remain relevant, it almost certainly will be another nail in the coffin for their own tablet/phone OS. That is quite the dilemma, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

FWIW, while Steve Jobs famously stated he hated the enterprise market, I think corporate adoption of iOS will be a considerable factor in iOS' continued success. I am not aware of any major company replacing their existing infrastructure with Android devices and Google services.

 

[SockRolid]

Well yeah, considering they openly admit this fact, and use it so anyone can use their services free of charge. It's true that nothing comes free. You're paying for just about everything you use one way or another. But Google isn't exactly being sneaky about how they make their money to provide everything to you.

No, they can't be sneaky about it. They blatantly spam up their search results.
As long as users of Google's "products" and "services" understand that their
eyeballs on ads is Google's real product, and that Google's real customers
are advertisers, then fine. Free country. Knock yourself out.

 

[Michael Goff]

Having trouble letting go?

Letting go of what? It isn't so much me not letting go, but this new buzzword not making any sense. There are some places where iPads are a better tool, or Android tablets, but this is hardly an era where laptops and desktops are being completely displaced by them.

And that isn't even stating the obvious, that tablets these days are more "personal computers" than your average "PC" is.

 

[Black Magic]

People who want to push an idea that Windows is hard to use, and thus everyone should switch to their OS of choice, always seem to have the most problems with Windows. They also, somehow, happen to be the people who have "used every version of Windows" and so forth.

This is why geeks don't get it and feel threatened that people buying iOS and Android no longer need their advice and skills. Let me elaborate.

Most folks go into the local store and buy a windows laptop or PC that is loaded from the rooter to the tooter with bloat/third party software. It could be nice and stable for some folks for the first 30 days but alot of the shareware starts expiring and needs to be removed to avoid annoying pop ups. Removing the software can go sideways and cause problems if you dont know what you are doing. Throw in getting a virus because you know thats going to happen when the AV version that came with the box was set to expire and you have one awful experience that NOBODY wants to replicate on a tablet or mobile phone.

Geeks will proclaim to the high heavens how great Microsoft OS is and that they never have an issue. Problem is most folks dont have the same technical know how and buy their PCs retail with bloat. The geeks experience is the exception and not the rule. Average consumers are now voicing their opinions with their wallet buying friendly tech. Geeks hate this because everyday that passes makes them that much more irrelevant.

 

[Michael Goff]

This is why geeks don't get it and feel threatened that people buying iOS and Android no longer need their advice and skills. Let me elaborate.

Most folks go into the local store and buy a windows laptop or PC that is loaded from the rooter to the tooter with bloat/third party software. It could be nice and stable for some folks for the first 30 days but alot of the shareware starts expiring and needs to be removed to avoid annoying pop ups. Removing the software can go sideways and cause problems if you dont know what you are doing. Throw in getting a virus because you know thats going to happen when the AV version that came with the box was set to expire and you have one awful experience that NOBODY wants to replicate on a tablet or mobile phone.

Geeks will proclaim to the high heavens how great Microsoft OS is and that they never have an issue. Problem is most folks dont have the same technical know how and buy their PCs retail with bloat. The geeks experience is the exception and not the rule. Average consumers are now voicing their opinions with their wallet buying friendly tech. Geeks hate this because everyday that passes makes them that much more irrelevant.

No, most people who buy an iOS or Android device also have a laptop or a desktop laying around somewhere. The idea that they don't is just plain wrong. It's why people are forced to lump smartPHONE sales with tablets in an effort to show that mobile is overtaking traditional PCs.

Because tablets are not.

 

[IJ Reilly]

IE perfect example.

Yes, a latter-day example. From the moment they had the DOS/Windows market served up on a silver platter they've never really had to think about technological excellence. Nothing had to be better than good enough to keep their customers from straying and the money rolling in. That's an entirely different task and mindset than trying to win over new customers, or create new markets. Microsoft had never been good at that. Sadly, innovation isn't in their corporate DNA.

Microsoft is a huge tragedy, IMO. They have more influence and resources than anyone (even Apple, in some respects), yet throughout their entire existence they've contributed almost nothing of importance to the universe of technology. Nearly everything they've done over the last 30 years is entirely derivative and lacking in boldness or originality. To think that one of the largest tech companies the world has ever known has this profile is kind of mind-blowing, but once you know that, their history of failure when they venture away from their core franchise is easier to explain.

 

[Renzatic]

No, they can't be sneaky about it. They blatantly spam up their search results.
As long as users of Google's "products" and "services" understand that their
eyeballs on ads is Google's real product, and that Google's real customers
are advertisers, then fine. Free country. Knock yourself out.

Yeah, and how does Google keep people's eyeballs on those ads? By offering up good "products" and "services" people want to use. No one uses Google's stuff because they feel sorry for them. Just like any commercial venture, it's a give and take affair. If they want our advertising data, they have to give us a compelling reason to give it to them.

----------

Snip

You've got half a good point, and half a bad one. It's true that one of the worst things about Windows is all the bloatware OEMs install on their machines. They take something that already runs perfectly out of the box, and slap a crapton of completely unnecessary bling on top of it. "Hey, I see Windows has a nice network manager. WELL HERE'S OURS THAT COMPLETELY TAKES IT OVER, WON'T WORK HALF THE TIME, AND EATS UP 5X THE AMOUNT OF RAM OLOL! ALSO HERE'S A BUNCH OF STUFF YOU'LL NEVER WANT TO BUY NORMALLY BUT WILL ANYWAY BECAUSE IT'LL REMIND YOU EVER HOUR TO PAY FOR IT WOOOO". It's annoying as hell, and does nothing but make people hate the thing they spent good money for. It's also one of the reasons why I'm not too sad about seeing HP, Dell, and the rest of the worst offenders die a slow death in the consumer market. They only did it to themselves.

But the computer geeks among us aren't exactly sad or threatened by the advent of easier to use OSes. Hell, I doubt anyone here who's done tech support is gonna miss having to run PC Decrapifier for the 15 billionth time for some random grandma. It's just the fact that Windows is a perfectly functional, solid OS by itself and can be better than OSX at time for getting stuff done.

You have to treat the OEM's and Apple in the same category. There are great OEMs out there who offer excellent hardware without any of the crap. Some of them don't. Just because the bad ones use Windows and bog it down to the point it barely runs isn't necessarily the fault of Windows itself.

 

[Black Magic]

No, most people who buy an iOS or Android device also have a laptop or a desktop laying around somewhere. The idea that they don't is just plain wrong. It's why people are forced to lump smartPHONE sales with tablets in an effort to show that mobile is overtaking traditional PCs.

Because tablets are not.

Actually tablets are taking over and the sales reflect this.

Making the assumption that everyone can afford to have tablets and PCs is arrogant and wrong. Tablets are the future. Why? Because most things that you could do on a tablet much easier without the tech know-how. Want to check your bank account? Click the app. On the computer? Login, get the URL, pray your browser version is supported and so on. Get the point?

 

[LordVic]

But the computer geeks among us aren't exactly sad or threatened by the advent of easier to use OSes. Hell, I doubt anyone here who's done tech support is gonna miss having to run PC Decrapifier for the 15 billionth time for some random grandma. It's just the fact that Windows is a perfectly functional, solid OS by itself and can be better than OSX at time for getting stuff done.

You have to treat the OEM's and Apple in the same category. There are great OEMs out there who offer excellent hardware without any of the crap. Some of them don't. Just because the bad ones use Windows and bog it down to the point it barely runs isn't necessarily the fault of Windows itself.

two schools of thought I encounter everyday with IT personell.

one side of "purists" who believe if you're not doing everything still in command shell or bash, that you dont know what you're doing, and are incapable of actually doing any job.

then the other side, who know how to leverage tools that are newer to accomplish many of the simpler tasks in a couple mouse clicks and are more free in their time to persue other IT related activities.

There's pros and cons to either approach. I'm a bit on the 2nd one myself. If a task that used to take me 15 minutes to do because I had to type up lines and lines of commands at a prompt can be replaced by clicking a button, and still accomplish the same thing, Why not?

as long as the basic principle of what is being done can be understood, and properly diagnosed and reproduced the old way should something go wrong, Then who cares if i cut my time by 90%. Elitism is the IT professions biggest hurdle

 

[Black Magic]

Yeah, and how does Google keep people's eyeballs on those ads? By offering up good "products" and "services" people want to use. No one uses Google's stuff because they feel sorry for them. Just like any commercial venture, it's a give and take affair. If they want our advertising data, they have to give us a compelling reason to give it to them.

----------



You've got half a good point, and half a bad one. It's true that one of the worst things about Windows is all the bloatware OEMs install on their machines. They take something that already runs perfectly out of the box, and slap a crapton of completely unnecessary bling on top of it. "Hey, I see Windows has a nice network manager. WELL HERE'S OURS THAT COMPLETELY TAKES IT OVER, WON'T WORK HALF THE TIME, AND EATS UP 5X THE AMOUNT OF RAM OLOL! ALSO HERE'S A BUNCH OF STUFF YOU'LL NEVER WANT TO BUY NORMALLY BUT WILL ANYWAY BECAUSE IT'LL REMIND YOU EVER HOUR TO PAY FOR IT WOOOO". It's annoying as hell, and does nothing but make people hate the thing they spent good money for. It's also one of the reasons why I'm not too sad about seeing HP, Dell, and the rest of the worst offenders die a slow death in the consumer market. They only did it to themselves.

But the computer geeks among us aren't exactly sad or threatened by the advent of easier to use OSes. Hell, I doubt anyone here who's done tech support is gonna miss having to run PC Decrapifier for the 15 billionth time for some random grandma. It's just the fact that Windows is a perfectly functional, solid OS by itself and can be better than OSX at time for getting stuff done.

You have to treat the OEM's and Apple in the same category. There are great OEMs out there who offer excellent hardware without any of the crap. Some of them don't. Just because the bad ones use Windows and bog it down to the point it barely runs isn't necessarily the fault of Windows itself.

I think Windows 7 on it's own is a great DESKTOP OS. I'm just saying that the average consumer doesn't differentiate between retail bloat and Windows when it comes to user experience. Sorry, but you know this is true.

Average consumers do not want that same experience on their mobile devices. Hell, even geeks dont want that experience. Example: Many geeks bitch about the bloat on Android devices and just want a pure android experience.

 

[SockRolid]

Yeah, and how does Google keep people's eyeballs on those ads? By offering up good "products" and "services" people want to use. No one uses Google's stuff because they feel sorry for them. Just like any commercial venture, it's a give and take affair. If they want our advertising data, they have to give us a compelling reason to give it to them.

Exactly the way TV networks and radio stations. Yup. It's nothing new.
But, given that, you'd think Google would have done a better job with Google TV.
And Nexus Q. It's like there's no adult supervision.

But really now. This was originally a thread about Surface only selling 1.7 million units.
WTF are we talking about Google again?

----------

... but this is hardly an era where laptops and desktops are being completely displaced by them. ...

Think of it this way. When the Model T started selling well, it spearheaded the "horseless carriage era."
We're still technically in the "horseless carriage era." And yet horses still exist.
Shocking, I know. But more people drive cars than ride horses now.

...And that isn't even stating the obvious, that tablets these days are more "personal computers" than your average "PC" is.

Don't tell that to Ballmer. He'll do the monkey-boy dance on your iPad.

But seriously folks, there are about 129 definitions of "PC" now.
Pick whichever definition suits your agenda, and go with it. Knock yourself out.

 

[Michael Goff]

Actually tablets are taking over and the sales reflect this.

Making the assumption that everyone can afford to have tablets and PCs is arrogant and wrong. Tablets are the future. Why? Because most things that you could do on a tablet much easier without the tech know-how. Want to check your bank account? Click the app. On the computer? Login, get the URL, pray your browser version is supported and so on. Get the point?

Is that why there were more traditional PC sales than tablet sales even with a lowering traditional PC market?

Exactly the way TV networks and radio stations. Yup. It's nothing new.
But, given that, you'd think Google would have done a better job with Google TV.
And Nexus Q. It's like there's no adult supervision.

But really now. This was originally a thread about Surface only selling 1.7 million units.
WTF are we talking about Google again?

----------



Think of it this way. When the Model T started selling well, it spearheaded the "horseless carriage era."
We're still technically in the "horseless carriage era." And yet horses still exist.
Shocking, I know. But more people drive cars than ride horses now.



Don't tell that to Ballmer. He'll do the monkey-boy dance on your iPad.

But seriously folks, there are about 129 definitions of "PC" now.
Pick whichever definition suits your agenda, and go with it. Knock yourself out.

I don't have an agenda, I'm just damn tired of random pointless and meaningless words being thrown around. People need to stop beating around the bush and say we might be entering an era where Windows is less relevant than before.

That's a good argument.

 

[mrsir2009]

This is a common misconception. Companies are actually driven to do their best by a financial incentive that is driven by consumer demand, not competition. Companies care about profit; the number and status of competitors they face is only important as a consideration of how feasible it is to achieve the greatest profit possible. If the market were to stop buying the product and demand something better, it would have the same impact on the company as if a groundbreaking new product made the company's product obsolete and everyone stopped buying it. Similarly, if competing were to become unprofitable, a company will often look for new opportunities that are profitable.

Competition DOES benefit the consumer, and is necessary for a capitalist economy to function. The act of competition necessitates that businesses work quickly and efficiently to earn the consumers' business, which is required because consumer demand cannot regulate a monopolistic economy. Just understand that the motivation itself is the black ink at the end of the quarterly report.

Yes, but if a company has a monopoly they don't have to work as hard to get those dollars from the consumers, as the consumers will have few other options other than to buy their products. They can even glean MORE dollars from the consumers in many cases this way, as with no competition they can set their prices high and spend less on developing new & better products, leading to higher profits. If a company has to cut their prices to compete, and spend tons on R&D to make a product that's better than their competitor, the profits could well be smaller.