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Microsoft thinks iTunes will fail

Chance to steal an idea...

Who thinks one of the rival services: e.g. Napster, is going to stike a deal with Coca Cola? I just anticipate that being the most sensible thing for them to do. Rip the idea, and apply it to the more successful drinks brand.

feeling uneasy.
 
Fairplay

But who owns "FairPlay"? The Digital Rights Management?

Fairplay DRM was developed by Veridisc Corp. Veridisc was funded by Greg Halpern, CEO of Circle Group Internet, Inc back in 2000 for the specific task of developing a DRM scheme which would satisfy the recording industry.

Veridisc was looking to sell Fairplay to the recording industry. They also set out to partner with computer manufacturers to include their software in new computers.

Here's where the story ends. Veridisc/Fairplay seems to have vanished as fast as they came on the scene back in 2000. Their website (veridisc.com) now displays porn.

I'm almost willing to bet Apple (possibly Pixar) bought this small startup company and now owns all rights to Fairplay. I certainly have no knowledge of whether this is true or not. Just conjecture.

As a side note. It's interesting to note the Fairplay system also works with online movies as well.

iMovie online next?
 
Re: Chance to steal an idea...

Originally posted by nodmonkey
Who thinks one of the rival services: e.g. Napster, is going to stike a deal with Coca Cola?

feeling uneasy.
Click to expand...

I just hope that has nothing to do with me.
Now I am feeling uneasy...
😉
 
MS and open systems

MS is whining because they can't imagine a way to create a better experience, and Apple having preempted them, must now resort to FUD.

As long as Apple can maintain value as the iPod matures, I don't think that they will have any problems. And this time, Apple has the volume on its side.

If only Apple could create a video experiment to preempt MS, and Sony. That would be something (and I bet SJ is quite aware of this).
 
Burn CD in iTunes - import into WMP??

I'm a Mac guy so I don't know if this'll work but with the Fair Play model from Apple you can burn a CD with iTunes on a Mac or PC and then surely re-import that into whatever Windows player you want to use - be that Micro$oft or WinAmp???

I don't think you can take a WMP 9 file and convert that to MP3 or AAC for use in other players except MS???

So isn't it MS that is locking users into a format.

Apple is setting PC users free with Fair Play for their music...

I think it is great! I just wish we could use the iTMS in the UK... sigh.
 
Re: 1macker1

think apple is jumping the gun with the iTMS for Windows. I mean what windows users is really going to get rid of their WMA for AAC.
Click to expand...

I was reading in the Penny-arcade.com forums an interesting series of discussions about the Windows iTunes product.

Quite a few questions about "how to convert WMA to MP3", and once the link was made, people were reporting how they were shifting "1500 wma files" to mp3, so they could use them with the iTunes store.

That was about the time I realized that iTunes on Windows is going to be one big ****ing hit.
 
The M$oft Way

I am a veteran of the Software Industry and I use pretty much most common OS platforms everyday. Windows, Linux, Solaris, ect. One thing I am sick and tired of is this M$ philosophy (sic?) of lots of choices to do one thing regardless of quality and security.

I actually like how Apple takes a standard like UNIX and builds on top of it an interface that just works. I know this isn't a Mac vs Wintel debate, but Apple has done the same thing with digital music. Take the standard disk drive and digital music concept and build a product that is functional and reliable while being stylish. I can't remember the last time I saw a MS product that did that.

My point, who made M$oft people experts in anything, that they get to criticise those who get things done right. If I wasn't about to buy a Mac, I would download and use iTunes for Windows.
 
Sour grapes

This is purely a case of sour grapes. Imagine, how can any upstart try or dare to compete with microsloth. We should be grateful for whatever offering they care to send.
Apple is at the forefront of this tech, with an open standard product and rights that are not restrictive.
MS are probably just bitchin' about the lack of WMA support because they can't claim more licence fees.
Poor MS, bad Apple for denying them a licence fee.🙄


Before anybody says, I know that Apple are not an Upstart.
 
Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I am confused.
I had been using a RIO mp3 player with iTunes for about a year ago.
When I plugged it into my USB port it appears a playlist in iTunes.
I simply just have to convert songs to mp3 before I can add the to the RIO playlist.
Is this no longer possible?
Click to expand...
That is still true, however, if you dl from itms then those tunes will not be available to your rio. THere is a clutzy work around, convert to audio CD and re-rip as mp3. Not as good a quality.
 
Maybe it will fail...

The one thing I've complained about is the cost of downloaded (compressed) music. For example, checking the iTunes site, the #2 downloaded album is "Everything to Everyone" by Barenaked Ladies: cost $9.99. Restrictions apply, compressed audio, you get a bunch of 1's and 0's in which you supply the media (CD/hard disk/ipod, print and case). Amazon has the album for $13.49, I'm sure it will go for cheaper in a couple of months, but you get the CD, media and case and can rip it to whatever format/compression you want to. (side note: I have found albums that are cheaper to buy the CD than it is to get it through iTMS (ie: Fountains of Wayne).

iTMS only gives you 1/10 of the music (the 1's and 0's) at 3/4 the price. (Assuming a 10:1 compression ratio).

To me, there's no 'bargain' or 'deal' by using iTMS. I'd much rather have the real physical CD, otherwise I'd feel like I'm getting ripped off. That's why I don't buy albums at iTMS.

On the other hand, the part of iTMS that interests me most is the ability to purchase just one song off of an album. The money that I'd save by not purchasing the other 9 songs on the album would get me 9 other songs that I would like. But, I still don't buy anything from iTMS because: a) it's second rate quality; b) it carries restrictions; and c) I'll probably be sick of the song after listening to is 20-30 times anyway.

But the failure of iTMS would mean that most all people are smart, comparison shop, and make informed decisions....but then again, California elected Arnold to be governor :eek, so it must be all about convenience and name recognition...
 
Re: Speaking as a Windows user ...

Originally posted by racolvin
..
Now there is one feature I've found lacking from iTunes ... it doesn't have any way (that I can find) of printing a CD jewelcase liner or CD label. I will admit I would like to be able to print a nice cd jacket with track listing, etc.

Other than that, its seemingly perfect.
Click to expand...

As I continue to use the software, I have now found another annoying thing ...

Users on another computer who are sharing your library (via Rendezvous), can't make their own playlists that reference your library. Dunno why that is but its incredibly annoying.

I've already sent that in as a feature request. Is this something you Mac folks can already do?
 
Just read the PRESSPASS, should probably be piss poor.
I ahave not read such ****e in a long time. Very much a case of we at m$ are wonderful, if you support us you are not too bad, but if you do anything else you are exclusionary.
As we are m$ lets pat ourselves on the back and tell everryone that apple are crap. What sort of medication did this guy forget to take???
He clearly needs it.🙁
 
Re: Portable AAC players

Originally posted by maxtrax
Looks like there are already a few AAC/MP3 players out there staring at like $80. So what the hell is MS talking about, closed system ONLY if you have an iPod. I really can't stand them....
Click to expand...


Players around $100 usually hold 64MB worth of songs. About 80 min of music.

If someone wants a cheap option buy a hundred 80 min CDR's for $20 and use them in any cd player. 😀
 
Re: Burn CD in iTunes - import into WMP??

Originally posted by mr_bam
I'm a Mac guy so I don't know if this'll work but with the Fair Play model from Apple you can burn a CD with iTunes on a Mac or PC and then surely re-import that into whatever Windows player you want to use - be that Micro$oft or WinAmp???

I don't think you can take a WMP 9 file and convert that to MP3 or AAC for use in other players except MS???

So isn't it MS that is locking users into a format.

Apple is setting PC users free with Fair Play for their music...

I think it is great! I just wish we could use the iTMS in the UK... sigh.
Click to expand...
You can:
Burn a CD from Windows MP that will work in iTunes (Mac and Win,) almost certain. Almost certain about vice versa too (with the exception of Mac/Win.)
 
there is a big difference if apple fights alone vs microsuck
and
apple, ibm against the same enemy, and on the side , having aol and pepsi backing you up.
 
apple strategy

it looks to me as if apple can first grab the windows user that owns an iPod - easy sell for itms Win.

Next is the windows user that doesn't have an "MP3" player - there are a lot of them out there. Side note - my boss downloaded itms win and today told me he was thinking of buying an ipod and a mac.

Both of these categories represent large numbers of people and I believe will result in more mac hardware sales.

iPods are more expensive than other players - although it offers more. Thus, windows users using itms that have "the money" to buy ipods will most likely be more wealthy than those complaining about the price of a player. these wealthy new ipod owners will be more likely to buy more apple hardware than a more financially challenged clientel...
 
can anyone clearly define (and I am not trying to bring up the WMA vs ACC) the stats on WMA and AAC. we all of course have our own personal bias (and I am slanted way mac), but with all the hopla and the other online services and portables using this encoding, just has me wondering why??? I mean... is it just becuase it is windoz and companies are used to seeing them as the standard to go by or what?....

Sorry, ok heres my opinion, but maybe it will help explain my question here.... I have never liked WM at all (audio or video). At teh same time it has been years since I have used a PC regularly. The only experiance I have with it is on my mac. So I am wondering if (like with earlier editions of QT on pc's) WM on the mac was just a badly writen player.

OK.... hope that clears up any gaps in my question... I am not trying to open up a can of worms and get ppl (specialy arn) upset for asking, I am just wanting to look at it from a spec stand point. Does WM have a technical edge on AAC or is that too fine of a hair t slice between personal preferance and cold hard facts?
 
Re: Burn CD in iTunes - import into WMP??

Originally posted by mr_bam
I'm a Mac guy so I don't know if this'll work but with the Fair Play model from Apple you can burn a CD with iTunes on a Mac or PC and then surely re-import that into whatever Windows player you want to use - be that Micro$oft or WinAmp???

I don't think you can take a WMP 9 file and convert that to MP3 or AAC for use in other players except MS???

So isn't it MS that is locking users into a format.

Apple is setting PC users free with Fair Play for their music...

I think it is great! I just wish we could use the iTMS in the UK... sigh.
Click to expand...

You can convert WMA to MP3, but it's a pain and it requires extra - and not free - tools to do so without significant data loss. Totally not worth it.
Apple needs to work on iTunes for Europe and Canada next.
 
Re: MS and open systems

Originally posted by TMay
MS is whining because they can't imagine a way to create a better experience, and Apple having preempted them, must now resort to FUD.

As long as Apple can maintain value as the iPod matures, I don't think that they will have any problems. And this time, Apple has the volume on its side.

If only Apple could create a video experiment to preempt MS, and Sony. That would be something (and I bet SJ is quite aware of this).
Click to expand...

Do the videos in iTunes Music Store count? I just watched the U@, Eagles, and other videos right in the music store (which uses QT). It's not a movie but music videos and interviews in the store is a start. Pixlet is coming in Panther and then who knows.
 
Big Brother/Wizard of Oz

The complete lie that this depends on is astonishing, and it gives you an object lesson in how the "War Is Peace" software company operates all the time. Apple and other developers, long ago did work on the MPEG-4 and AAC open standards. Microsoft decided not to play, and then brought out a proprietary, incomplete implementation of the standards -- and even calls it MPEG4! Then the standards body declares the open standard fixed, and Apple releases Quicktime 6, which follows the standards. Then they use part of that standard in the Apple Store, protected AAC -- because otherwise, the labels would make it a no go. But Microsoft, dawdling like a wallflower as usual, does nothing itself. But then, when Apple writes a Windows app using the same open protocols: and that is "too limited." The gall of MS is truly astonishing; so much so that you can't really believe they'll pull this stuff until they do.

While I'm on the subject, I really wonder what the state of negotiations might be between MS and Apple about the WMA 9 codecs. I'm not sure which I might be in favor of, but I tend to believe it would be more in Apple's interest to be able to play back all MS codecs, and not be afraid that some people might download stuff from Napster and put it on their iPods. Does Apple think so too? Did they try to get them? There are a lot of possibilities: having the iPod and iTunes play back WMA as well as everything else would be a good thing. Would MS allow it? Or do they prefer to use FUD to discourage all that innovation they pretend to be doing, while relying on their monopoly and proprietary standards to control the market? Just asking.
 
Re: Maybe it will fail...

Originally posted by crazytom
The one thing I've complained about is the cost of downloaded (compressed) music.
Click to expand...


The restrictions on the music are quite minimal... almost to the point of non-existent for the everyday listener. Burn as much as you want, play on 3 machines at a time (not counting iPod), listen all you want, transfer to new machines any time... very unrestricted in my view.

As far as value goes... well you've hit it on the nose. CDs are still a better value if you ignore the inconvenience factor of having to go and find it and buy it from somewhere. The files on CD are higher quality. No one can argue with that. You also get the liner notes, etc. If you can get a good deal on an full album you want through Amazon go for it.

As far as the single song thing.... you've already outlined the best reasons to use iTMS. It's a song you will probably get sick of after 20-30 plays which means you probably are listening to closely... so quality isn't really you're big thing there. It will cost you 1/10th the price of the full CD (to throw your numbers back at you😛)

So unless you are okay with pirating the single, you should use iTMS for it. For full albums you should buy the CD.

People who are into downloading lots of music don't care about the same things you do.... they want music to listen to while doing dishes or homework or getting dressed in the morning, ie: quality of sound is not the biggest issue, it has to be 'good enough'. Also these are the kind of people who get a cd and rarely if ever look at the liner or case more than twice... it has no value.

I suggest you try a download of a single you heard on the radio and want to hear again sometime... just try it, for 99 cents you can try it. You might find it fills in that niche for you.
 
Ok Microsoft is bitching because their propriety WMA is not supported and millions of PC users are going to convert their existing WMA files to MP3/AIFF/etc. to use the iTunes and iPod.

And they are upset because Apple has made a serious breach into their territory with a Mac like interface designed to get them used to how we do things. Not to mention all the website traffic when they have questions or problems.

www.wma-mp3.com

Eventually someone is going to create a ACC to MP3/AIFF/etc converter.

DRM to Microsoft is a tool of control, subjection and dominance.

DRM to Apple is just something to keep the RIAA happy, they know it's not going to work in the long run, the object is to get people to buy rather than steal music like a thief.

Apple accepting WMA=accepting Microsoft's control and subjection. Very Anti-Apple.

I'm building quite a large ACC collection, rightfully paying artists for their creative work because their efforts make the world a happier place.

Eventually I would like to convert it all to a high quality universal format for connivence, and it's my music anyway.

With WMA it's Microsoft's music. Snitching on me every-time I have a internet connection.

"Yes, Microsoft I moved and bought a new computer thus the music got transfered, no I don't want to buy Windows XP, no I don't want a subscription to PCWorld, yes my wife and children are fine, are you threatening me?"
 
Poster Boy

All I can say about Apple's iTunes for Windows is "it is about time!" I have been using for Apple for nearly four years now and haven't looked back, however when I am forced to use a WinTel Box I have to admit I do not like any of the available music programs. Thank you Apple!😀
 
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