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Microsoft thinks iTunes will fail

One other thing I forget to mention goes along with one of the other posts I read. Microsoft is complaining because that is what they do for one, and for two because Apple is finally, after 10 years, re-entering the fight they began years ago with Windows.

Microsoft flat stole the Macintosh Operating System and designed Windows. The only thing they lost in the Windows 95 suit was that they couldn't call the Trash, "Trash" it had to be recycle bin and two the default location for the Trash could not be in the lower right corner.

Now Apple is re-entering the fight by showing the other 90% of the market that, Apple isn't just for geeks and rich people. Apple builds the easiest and most cutting edge Personal Computer Products. Go Apple and it is about time that everyone else, "Thinks Different!"
 
I can't wait till next year...

...when we get to see Pepsi Commercials with Britney Spears dancing around with an iPod, stopping, pulling off the cap of Pepsi Twist bottle, looking at the cap, going to her G5 Powerbook (which will be released by february after Macworld SF), and entering in the code in ITMS to redeem her free song. Song downloaded... "Cry me a River" by Justin Timberlake. Now that's marketing...
 
I rather like buying CDs and ripping to WAV. I prefer the high quality sound of WAV to MP3 or WMA. Only problem is file size but...no problem with a 20GB iPod. Still about 400 songs. That's still over a day of constant playtime before I have to hear the same song twice.:D

Hmm...40GB for 800 songs.....
 
highly highly amusing all of this not just because i now have iTunes on 2 systems both of which seem to work just fine and dandy but because in this day and age i have a upteen diffrent music apps all able to play diffrent formats

aac mp3 vog ogg wav aiff wma etc cda i can also use most of them all on each system iChoose iTunes over wmp any day for audio seeming iTunes dont do DVD PLAYBACK iam stuck with WMP because my Mac dosnt do DVD not till i buy a new e Mac at least or what ever comes first then i can go sod windows aac and mp3 cant tell the diffrence in audio most of the time as for this crap about limited options of playing files name me the most famouse file in the world todate . MP3

Granted most pc users dont know what AAC files are hell i didnt know what it was till i got iTunes and it dont make my life any better or worse just gives me another choice .

Windows copies and copies gives all this crap about making copies of it stuff yet here they are coping there nearest rival Apple..

iPod is the way to go stuff the others there all to big and ugly as far as i am concrned and beshides theres nothing finer to use for djing 2 Pods and a mixer lovely... oh and vinyl
 
Here is the real magic of iTunes for windows: Convergence.

Let me explain. prior to now, a windows user who wanted to burn a CD needed Nero, Easy CD creator, or some other dedicated CD burning utility. Now, if they wanted to copy a cd the burner proggie could handle that. But what if they wanted to rip a copy of the CD music onto their hard drive to play later? Well, you need AudioGrabber. I'm sure there are other rippers out there, but it's been too long and I was happy with AudioGrabber, which you have to pay cash money for if you want to rip an entire cd in one go. NOW, if you want to PLAY any of that music, whether it's on the CD or ripped into MP3s, you need YET ANOTHER program, Windows Media Player, CD Player, WinAmp, etc. So there's at least three programs, one of which has no free (as in beer) alternative that I am aware of. Got an iPod? Oops, you HAVE to use MusicMatch (or EphPod, which is actually a smashingly good proggie) so maybe if you're used to WinAmp you have to learn a new program, or you could JUST use MM for the pod functions and stay with your favorite player...theres ANOTHER program you have to keep installed and know how to use and troubleshoot.

Now here come iTunes, a FREE (as in beer) software that:
1. Plays CDs
2. Plays MP3s, WAVs, and AACs (did I miss any? Probably, these are the three I use)
3. Will RIP a CD to the harddrive in MP3 or AAC with a variety of qualities to choose from.
4. Can BURN music off the hard drive to a CD.
5. Handles your iPod pretty %#@*in' good. I think I like EphPod better on the whole, or maybe I mean EphPod has definitely got some features Apple could learn from, but anyway, iTunes Windows speaks damn fluent iPod.
6. Has a wicked good Music Download Service BUILT RIGHT IN. No membership fees. No contracts. Least restrictive DRM in the industry.

Now THAT is a recipe for an insane success. The only problem I forsee is that Windows users really are used to the abuse. iTunes might creep them out by working too well and doing to many useful things w/o being a major pain in the ass.
 
Re: Speaking as a Windows user ...

Originally posted by racolvin
Micrososoft and WMA format can kiss my ease-of-use-loving arse. I may even be a Mac user by this time next year but I can guarantee I'll be a proud 40G iPod owner by Christmas of this year.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to see that in bold text.:p
 
Re: There are non Apple Devices playing protected AAC.

Originally posted by mathematician
The Nokia 5510 Mobile Phone supports MP3 and protected (!) AAC.

See http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,659,00.html
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a great catch! Anyone have this phon and can comment?

I wanted to add my 2 cents, and to re-comment again on how it is AAC not ACC. It's "Advanced Audio Codec" -- AAC. (this is a general comment for the forum)

Here's the big problem I see:

On a Mac, I can play my iTMS AAC file in QuickTime player, iMovie, iPhoto, anything, it all works seamlessly. That's how it is for WMA on Windows. AAC on windows literally *only* plays in one program: iTunes. Yes it works with the iPod, and yes you can burn CDs and re-rip them (at a loss), but one of the huge components of "FairPlay", which is that you can use your own purchased music however you want, is missing on the Windows side... and it does suck for them. What if I think iTMS is cool, but I'd rather use WinAmp? Windows people love "skins" -- iTunes has no support for that. iTunes for Windows is pretty dang slow... there are a variety of reasons why someone might choose another jukebox. I think, in that case, we'd all agree choice is good and, as much as Apple wants us to believe, iTunes is not the "be all and end all" of Music jukeboxes. It's a great app, but it's not necessarily for everyone.

But so right now you have *no* choice but to use iTunes, and iTunes only for protected AAC. You can't use them in Windows Movie Maker or for slideshows or anything else. Wouldn't that kind of feel "restricting" and, on the surface, make it seem like MS was offering you the better option with WMA?

Kind of backwards, but it makes some sense.
 
This choice or no choice?

Originally posted by reedm007
But so right now you have *no* choice but to use iTunes, and iTunes only for protected AAC. You can't use them in Windows Movie Maker or for slideshows or anything else. Wouldn't that kind of feel "restricting" and, on the surface, make it seem like MS was offering you the better option with WMA?
Click to expand...

You have a choice of good quality supporting products (iTunes, iPod) or you rent. The need to have these restrictions, allows a person to "own" their copy of the music.

If these restrictions did not exist, iTunes Music Store would not exist. You would have no "choice" but to rent your online music. The recording industry would have to wait before "selling" music in a downloadable format.

There maybe a hope for a more multimedia usage of protected AAC, if iLife was sold as a windoze product. I'm not sure this would be a good thing, it would just be the good reason to stay on a windoze box.
 
Originally posted by panphage
Here is the real magic of iTunes for windows: Convergence.

Let me explain. prior to now, a windows user who wanted to burn a CD needed Nero, Easy CD creator, or some other dedicated CD burning utility. Now, if they wanted to copy a cd the burner proggie could handle that. But what if they wanted to rip a copy of the CD music onto their hard drive to play later? Well, you need AudioGrabber. I'm sure there are other rippers out there, but it's been too long and I was happy with AudioGrabber, which you have to pay cash money for if you want to rip an entire cd in one go. NOW, if you want to PLAY any of that music, whether it's on the CD or ripped into MP3s, you need YET ANOTHER program, Windows Media Player, CD Player, WinAmp, etc. So there's at least three programs, one of which has no free (as in beer) alternative that I am aware of. Got an iPod? Oops, you HAVE to use MusicMatch (or EphPod, which is actually a smashingly good proggie) so maybe if you're used to WinAmp you have to learn a new program, or you could JUST use MM for the pod functions and stay with your favorite player...theres ANOTHER program you have to keep installed and know how to use and troubleshoot.

Now here come iTunes, a FREE (as in beer) software that:
1. Plays CDs
2. Plays MP3s, WAVs, and AACs (did I miss any? Probably, these are the three I use)
3. Will RIP a CD to the harddrive in MP3 or AAC with a variety of qualities to choose from.
4. Can BURN music off the hard drive to a CD.
5. Handles your iPod pretty %#@*in' good. I think I like EphPod better on the whole, or maybe I mean EphPod has definitely got some features Apple could learn from, but anyway, iTunes Windows speaks damn fluent iPod.
6. Has a wicked good Music Download Service BUILT RIGHT IN. No membership fees. No contracts. Least restrictive DRM in the industry.
Click to expand...

Aside from the music download service compatible with the iPod (which you just can't get anywhere aside from iTMS), both MusicMatch (free crippleware) and Windows Media Player (free crippleware included with every copy of Windows) include all the above functions. WMP doesn't rip to MP3 by default; you have to pay $10 to buy a plugin from InterVideo or the like to enable that functionality. MM does, however, just slower than your CD will rip.
 
Re: Re: There are non Apple Devices playing protected AAC.

Originally posted by reedm007
But so right now you have *no* choice but to use iTunes, and iTunes only for protected AAC. You can't use them in Windows Movie Maker or for slideshows or anything else. Wouldn't that kind of feel "restricting" and, on the surface, make it seem like MS was offering you the better option with WMA?

Kind of backwards, but it makes some sense.
Click to expand...

Can you use WMA/p files (protected, as in bought from BuyMusic or MusicMatch) in Windows Movie Maker or any of the real movie editting programs? My understanding is that you can not.

In contrast, at least QuickTime provides the hooks to use FairPlay in any other program. Not sure if existing apps use those hooks (probably not), but it's all there for other apps to tie into. Even on Windows.
 
Re: Re: There are non Apple Devices playing protected AAC.

Originally posted by reedm007
Here's the big problem I see:

On a Mac, I can play my iTMS AAC file in QuickTime player, iMovie, iPhoto, anything, it all works seamlessly. That's how it is for WMA on Windows. AAC on windows literally *only* plays in one program: iTunes.
Click to expand...

Are you shure? As far as I know the AAC encoding and decoding as well as the DRM (FairPlay/protected AAC) ist part of QuickTime. On a Mac any application that uses QuickTime can play protected AAC (this is why iMovie can do so). I believe that it is the same on a PC. Try playing your protected AAC with the QuickTime player please.
 
Re: Re: Speaking as a Windows user ...

Originally posted by racolvin
As I continue to use the software, I have now found another annoying thing ...

Users on another computer who are sharing your library (via Rendezvous), can't make their own playlists that reference your library. Dunno why that is but its incredibly annoying.

I've already sent that in as a feature request. Is this something you Mac folks can already do?
Click to expand...

that is because it just streams the music. If you could actually copy the playlists (and therefore the music) from another itunes Apple would have problems from the RIAA.

Of course if you mean just a link, like an alias, then that could be a good idea but if their IP address changed then itd probably break anyway.

Oh yes, id i think all this talk of AAC files from iTMS being playable on iPods forgets that some people dont want portable mp3 players and would be happy with a home jukebox they can stream to any machine.

Ive installed itunes for win on a few PCs at work and were all listening to each others music (I use a Mac btw)

Id be interested to see a graph of the sales at iTMS and downloads of itunes for the first 24 hours after iTunes for Win was released
 
I just wanted to point out that an iPod isn't required to listen to music from the iTunes store on a portable device. Hasn't anyone heard of MiniDisc?
 
Apple and MSFT playing same game

Right now, this is kind of entertaining. Microsoft and Apple are battling over competing "OPEN" yet really closed standards.

Let's face it, the driving force for the Music Store right now is iPod. iPod is the coolest thing, tons of 'em are sold, and that makes the Music Store the popular choice.

MSFT is trying to make a technical argument that they may be more "open" and have more "choice", but they also realize they don't have the cool hardware, they don't make it, and their 3rd parties are not cutting it.

Also, let's set this straight:
- AAC (non-protected, open standard by Dolby Labs)
- WMA (not protected, submitted to standards body, not truly open, but very available).

BUT......

As soon as Apple adds FairPlay to AAC and MSFT makes "Encrypted" WMA, both of those formats are closed.

Apple would be wise to get other people to support the FairPlay AAC spec, that would throw a real wrench at MSFT.

Depending on whose Kool-Aid you drink, you're going to believe one company or the other.
 
Do WinDoze owners care about simplicity of use? Elegant design? Quality? I think they've been conned into clunky chunky stuff. So that perhaps iTunes and iPods aren't appealing to them?

I do have a friend with a Sony Vaio: sweeeeet!
 
Originally posted by Steve M

The only limitation is that you can't play music from Napster 2.0, MusicMatch, or the other services. And I'm willing to bet that iTunes and iPod will be playing WMA files within the next few months...
Click to expand...

I disagree. I don't think the iPod will ever support wma. Why should it? Apple has chosen the format for their music store (aac). They are not going to re-rip all the music again to wma, that's for sure. And having 2 sound formats in a store so you'd have to choose wouldn't be very Apple-like userfriendly.
 
that doesnt stop them supporting it on the ipod, after all you can also play mp3, wav, aiff etc on it, but you can only buy AAC from the store (and whatever audiobooks are).

That being said, i doubt theyll support it but i do think it would be a good idea if they did. Although presumably MS would have to agree to Apple licensing it.
 
WMA on iPod would be stupid

Excuse me, but supporting WMA (unprotected WMA) on an iPod would be a very stupid move. If Apple would like to give support to USERS of WMA it would just include WMA transcoding in iTunes, i.e. if you want to have audio which is in WMA on your iPod, iTunes would convert it to AAC. (This could even be done in background).

By this Apple would reduce the amount of WMA files and increase the amount of AAC files.

Obviously, this is what Microsoft did many times, however they did it with cheap and much worse "replacements" (here I believe that AAC is equivalent to WMA and protected AAC ist better than encrypted WMA). Example: internet Explorer versus Netscape: Microsoft first produces an exact copy (from a functional point of view) and gives it away for free or bundled, then it adds crap to make it incompatible.

PS: I liked the ending of the presentation, when Steve Jobs thanked Peter and the others. And mentioned that they love what they do. Considering WMA I only see $$$ in Microsoft eyes (of course, Apple is greedy too, but it they seem care about their followers - see OS X / Darwin, which is great!)
 
it's about the iPod, stupid

it's funny how all the talk is focussed on iTunes/iTMS while it should really be about the iPod. I read somewhere that Apple makes about 10 cents on each song after all the costs are factored in. So even if Apple sells 100 million songs this year (which would be an amazing year), they still only make $10 million in profit.

The iPod, on the other hand, probably nets around 30% profit per unit. If Apple sells 2 millioin of these (500,000 a quarter), at $400 a pop, then we're talking around $120 mil in profits. See why Apple's calling iTunes for Windows the 'trojan horse'?

As others have noted, iTunes/iTMS for windows gives PC users the complete, integrated solution for their music. It's all about making the iPod experience that much better. We should also not forget how much this does to introduce PC users to the Apple experience. Just like how Sony was the hot commodity brand in the 80s (and 90s?), Apple could become the next chic brand for high-end gadgets.

Finally, let's go over some Steve projections:

•30 million songs downloaded by Mac users, which represent roughly 5% of the market.
•70 million songs by PC users, 95% of the market. Steve doesn't care about 'owning' the PC market. He just wants to have a healthy presence and for Apple to be there for the high-end users who're willing to dish out $400-500 for an mp3 player. People make this out to be some Windows vs. Mac debate, but it's not. Steve is actually a lot more strategic and selective about the battles he picks.

edit: changed '$10 cents' to '10 cents'
 
Microsoft irresponsible

I think what will happen is people will hear what Microsoft is saying and think, what the hell are they talking about. Microsoft really thinks we are stupid. There is a credibility point here. Why would Volkswagen and Pepsi bet their marketing and partner with Apple. This means Apple is perceived good and people want to be associated with them. What Microsoft is saying is counter logic. People, smell the funk. It permeats from Redmond.......... By the way, the picture of the guy in the article from Microsoft, is it me or are his eyes all red like he has been losing sleep? Itunes launch?
 
I am a Microsoft/Dell user who downloaded iTunes Thursday night and have now purchased over 50 songs. I have never before used such a clean and well polished app, it makes me wonder why I have been using Microsoft for so long. I have been looking into Macs for a few months now after having purchased Windows XP and then having the supposedly "rock solid" OS crash multiple times. So as a previous poster said, I think I will look into getting an iPod for Christmas and when the PowerBooks begin using the G5 processors I just might "switch" permanently. Now if only Apple could come out with a killer productivity suite…

One question, when I eventually get a Mac, I will be able to transfer the songs I have purchased thus far to that system, right? I see no reason why I couldn’t.
 
Uncle Fester loosing sleep

I think what will happen is people will hear what Microsoft's Fester is saying and think, what the hell are they talking about. Microsoft really thinks we are stupid. There is a credibility point here. Why would Volkswagen and Pepsi bet their marketing and partner with Apple. This means Apple is perceived good and people want to be associated with them. What Microsoft is saying is counter logic. People, smell the funk. It permeats from Redmond.......... By the way, the picture of the guy in the article from Microsoft, is it me or are his eyes all red like he has been losing sleep? Itunes launch?
 
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