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thats exactly what apple is doing. obscure and devalue the word "innovation", copying others and turning around make some fanboys cheering "innovation" w/o even knowing any details behind it.....

At least Microsoft created windows from scratch up.

LOL...You should take your own advice!!!
 
Your kidding. Right? Billy stole windows from Apple in the first place. Did he not?

Yes...plus the first version of Windows [1.0 - 3.11] was nothing more than an Operating Environment. It wouldn't work without DOS...[wow showing my age]...
 
I would go after COST. Especially in the current economic environment.

Attacking features or design would be suicide.

Mate, Dick Smiths in New Zealand are selling Acer Inspire laptops for below NZ$1300 and still students are going for MacBooks. Doesn't that tell you something - that saving NZ$600 isn't worth the pain inflicted by Microsoft?
 
finally its time for microsoft to do something.
honestly, as much as i LOVE macs and its OS.. their commercials are biased... EXTREMELY biased.

their whole "it just works" is bull crap. why does it "work?" CAUSE YOU GET 10GB OF PRINTER DRIVERS... and the funny thing is, the canon mp470 they sell, is not even in that 10 gigs of drivers so i have to install my own drivers

Time Capsule, Airport issues!!! i never had a problem.. and i never had a problem w/ wireless w/ Vista/XP. but look at this forum, some people wont even update to the next software updates cause their afraid their network will get screwed up

Microsoft freezes and gets the blue screen of death. Sad to say, i dont know if it applies to many of you but me and my friends barely experience it. Honestly, i experienced the same amount of Blue screen of death as compared to Kernel panics

that one commercial where the group of PCs are together and one of them freezes and repeats himself... macs do that too. They have beach balls, force quit, etc...

there's so many problems addressed in this forum and i guess you can say , "yes, although mac people may have problems, its still a lOT less compared to the PC users." frankly, i dont find that to be true to a certain extent. please understand that this is from MY perspective but.. i know soo many people who use PC's and they're fine. and the people who have problem upgrading to vista... well their computer is 8 years old. JUST LIKE how some of the older g3 macs cannot upgrade to leopard

i think the problem is that Mac users love computers and appreciate it more than pc users (includes me) therefore, we're always updated in terms of technology and the processors we use. but the pc people all they care about is opening that mozilla window and reading their emails. and those people, theyre computers "suck" cuase its freakin old.

and the PC people who actually DO care about their computers? well their in luck cause they get an expandable desktop AND they rarely have problems with PC... if not just as much as a mac user would have.




well, those are my thoughts. im not attacking anyone who likes mac, cause i love them!!!! but id just like to know what you guys think

Please, for the love of [insert deity of your choice] don't the whiners on forums as a benchmark for what Windows or Mac OS X is like.
 
Actually, I wouldn't discount Microsoft's efforts here. Their new ad agency is Crispin Porter & Bogusky, and they are very, very good.

See for yourself: http://www.cpbgroup.com/

This should be interesting.

(although, when they won the account, it was conditional that they would still use Macs agency-wide. HA!)

Good lord their ads are crap. They settled for *that* company? Christ, if rescuing Vista is a priority I would have gone for Saatchi & Saatchi.
 
I'm sure microsoft is going to do the mature, responsible thing and actually advertise their products features in a favorable light, and compare Vista to XP in an effort to get their customers to upgrade.

When apple takes cheap pot shots at microsoft, its viewed as david vs. goliath and is acceptable in a cute kind of way.

If Microsoft starts hammering on Apple, they will look like a bully.

Besides that, apple users buy office, and XP or Vista.. so they really don't care. This was just way to get some cheap press.

Or more correctly, as stated previously by Microsoft, their biggest competitor is themselves in the form of older products. Mac OS X is competition, but their main one is Windows XP.
 
Of course we have been presuming that MS would at least keep the type true. Because they could lead with Bill saying "oh you know Macs are hacked everyday. Then take it down hill from there... and make their perception be the world reality. :eek:
 
At least Microsoft created windows from scratch up.
And there lies the problem. From scratch, not quite. MS-QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System)
was compiled by hacker Tim Paterson, a Seattle Computer Products employee, who literally hashed it together in a mere six weeks.

Microsoft purchased QDOS in order to have something to demo for IBM on time, and the rest is history. Numerous features, including vaguely Unix-like but rather broken support for subdirectories, I/O redirection, and pipelines, were hacked into Microsoft's 2.0 and later versions; as a result, there are two or more incompatible versions of many system calls, and MS-DOS programmers can never agree on basic things like what character to use as an option switch or whether to be case-sensitive. The resulting mess is now the highest-unit-volume OS in history.
 
The Get-a-Mac ad I'd like to see

Mac: "Why the long face, PC?"
PC:" "It's my sister. She got a great price on her laptop with Vista Home Edition. But now she needs to connect to her company's Virtual Private Network, and for that she'll need Vista Business Edition."
Mac: "What's the big deal? Can't she trade up?"
PC: "Sure, if she wants to spend over $200. Heck, Best Buy wanted an extra $300 to sell me a Vista Home laptop that they've upgraded to Vista Business."
Mac: "Bummer."
PC: "Well, Mac, you must face that sort of hassle, too."
Mac: "Not really. You see, MacOS comes in just one edition. If something works on a Mac, it works on my Mac."
PC: "Maybe my sister can 'lose' her laptop and file an insurance claim."
Mac: "Worth a try."
 
...as a result, there are two or more incompatible versions of many system calls...

This is actually one of Microsoft's strengths - improvements are made without breaking older applications. Keep the old routine as is, and create the new routine with a different spelling. Every time I run some old 16-bit DOS or Windows 95 application on my Vista system, I appreciate Microsoft's compatibility.

What would you prefer - that an OS should drop old APIs and force application vendors to do pointless rewrites? (cough - Carbon64 - cough)
 
Remember now, Apple started targeting Microsoft.
The thing that I don't like is the potential here. I want Apple to survive.
I'm sure this reply will have some comments saying that Apple would never die.
But fact is, how many companies do you actually know of, that started to hurt Microsoft in the pocket book, has survived after Microsoft started to target them.
Their tactics have been VERY successful for them. And not for us.
Now that they are going to start 'Responding', well you know their track record when they have Responded to other companies. Look at how big Netscape alone was.

One small difference sunshine; Netscape's products were completely and utterly crap. Anyone with a decent memory will remember just how monumentally crap Netscape Communicator/Browser was on Windows (or infact, any browser it ran on).

Apple is in an entirely different situation now, they have a quality product line up and a focused CEO who knows where he wants to take the company.

Again, there is a huge difference - I'm surprised so many here have such short memories on just how crap Netscape products were.
 
And there lies the problem. From scratch, not quite. MS-QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System)
was compiled by hacker Tim Paterson, a Seattle Computer Products employee, who literally hashed it together in a mere six weeks.

Microsoft purchased QDOS in order to have something to demo for IBM on time, and the rest is history.
are you implying QDOS is a significant foundation of windows?
Your kidding. Right? Billy stole windows from Apple in the first place. Did he not?

sorry, i was not kidding, tell me how did Bill steal windows from apple in the first place. did apple wrote the majority of the code of windows or what?
 
"They tell us it's the iWay or the highway. We think that's a sad message. Software out there is made to be compatible with your whole life."

I don't understand what he's getting at with that last line. In case MS hasn't figured it out already, they lost. they just don't know it yet. A Mac is the best computer system to buy hands down, because it can run the Mac OS AND Windows, not to mention nearly all flavors of Linux and a variety of unix apps for the true geeks. A Mac is the ultimate computer. How ironic that he could even mention software compatibility, when a Mac beats the snot out of Windows PCs in that arena.

Idiot.
 
A Mac is the ultimate computer. How ironic that he could even mention software compatibility, when a Mac beats the snot out of Windows PCs in that arena.

Idiot.

an ultimate computer can't offer 15% game compatibility? how is it ultimate?

or do you mean "ultimate only when you use it in a certain way"?
 
This is actually one of Microsoft's strengths - improvements are made without breaking older applications. Keep the old routine as is, and create the new routine with a different spelling. Every time I run some old 16-bit DOS or Windows 95 application on my Vista system, I appreciate Microsoft's compatibility.

What would you prefer - that an OS should drop old APIs and force application vendors to do pointless rewrites?

As well as it is one of Windows weaknesses - It's a tradeoff really. True, backward compatibility avoids breaking old software. This is difficult, however, because the APIs were poorly thought out to begin with, so programmers have worked around them relying on the underlying implementation. Emulation (such as Rosetta) might have be a better solution, so as to reduce the enormous amounts of excessive and redundant code necessary to maintain backward compatibility. I would prefer a Windows with a slimmer profile which would be less vulnerable, more agile, responsive, and less demanding of memory.
 
are you implying QDOS is a significant foundation of windows?


sorry, i was not kidding, tell me how did Bill steal windows from apple in the first place. did apple wrote the majority of the code of windows or what?

QDOS isn't a major foundation of Windows, but it is a major foundation of MS. Windows NT isn't a "Ground up" OS either. It's major underpinnings are LAN Manager, which ran on top of DOS. It was developed along with 3-Com to replace their old Network OS, all built on Netbios. NT stole a lot from that, as well as OS/2.

So Windows or NT [and now all the other flavors] are not innovative at all. It's a compilation of old code, rewritten to some extent, and patched. Why do you think they rely on DLL files and Registries?
 
QDOS isn't a major foundation of Windows, but it is a major foundation of MS. Windows NT isn't a "Ground up" OS either. It's major underpinnings are LAN Manager, which ran on top of DOS. It was developed along with 3-Com to replace their old Network OS, all built on Netbios. NT stole a lot from that, as well as OS/2.

So Windows or NT [and now all the other flavors] are not innovative at all. It's a compilation of old code, rewritten to some extent, and patched. Why do you think they rely on DLL files and Registries?

Now this is sincere discussion, my questions are
1. When you say windows is a compilation of old code, how much of those old codes are written by Microsoft?

2. do you think OSX is written from scratch by apple then? and if not, in comparison, how much did microsoft write in windows, and how much did apple write in OSX?
 
I don't understand what he's getting at with that last line. In case MS hasn't figured it out already, they lost. they just don't know it yet. A Mac is the best computer system to buy hands down, because it can run the Mac OS AND Windows, not to mention nearly all flavors of Linux and a variety of unix apps for the true geeks. A Mac is the ultimate computer. How ironic that he could even mention software compatibility, when a Mac beats the snot out of Windows PCs in that arena.

Idiot.

Microsoft hasn't lost. Lost would be like Enron or Worldcomm or Bear Stearns selling to JP Morgan. It's like the Beta vs VHS argument, did the best quality win? Don't underestimate the 800lb gorilla.
 
"Stable and ready."

Still doesn't change the fact that Vista uses up half or even more of your RAM.

Let's not talk about memory usage, I have a macbook with ichat, mail, terminal and safari with only three tabs open and I'm using 1.3 GB WTF????
 
sorry, i was not kidding, tell me how did Bill steal windows from apple in the first place. did apple wrote the majority of the code of windows or what?

Bill actually stole the concept of resizable, overlapping windows with title bars from Apple, not code.
 
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