Sorry to bust your bubble but if you look at the big picture, hardcore gaming on PCs are a huge minority, in fact the PC games scene has seen a steady annual decline, alot less than 15% of the folks running PCs can afford to upgrade their PCs to be games worthy as technology improves. They opt to play their games on an Xbox 360 or PS3 which will be viable for at least 6 or 7 years... well not so sure about the Xbox 360, given the original Xbox track record, but then again what do you expect from Microsoft.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft to Respond to Apple's 'Get a Mac' Ads
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sorry to bust your bubble but if you look at the big picture, hardcore gaming on PCs are a huge minority, in fact the PC games scene has seen a steady annual decline, alot less than 15% of the folks running PCs can afford to upgrade their PCs to be games worthy as technology improves. They opt to play their games on an Xbox 360 or PS3 which will be viable for at least 6 or 7 years... well not so sure about the Xbox 360, given the original Xbox track record, but then again what do you expect from Microsoft.
Wasn't it the Amiga OS that was really one of the pioneers of the multi-tasking windows based OS? I am not sure on the timeline, I think it came out like '85 or something. Maybe I am way off, but I remember Amiga OS being pretty cutting edge for its time.
what do I say, i have seen too many apple defenders who simply using this tactic. If apple's product can't do it, then it must be not useful nor important.
Its quite effective in debate, I gotta admit. but will it convincing general population? My guess is no, they don't respond to debate tactic, they just don't buy it.
well, you aren't really saying this is how Bill steals windows from apple, are you?
Anyway, steal "concept" is quite useless word IMHO, there are too many technologies today are used by more than one company, who steal from who, and what constitutes a "steal"?
Amiga was indeed pretty cutting edge for its time. Apple introduced the Mac OS with overlapping windows in 1984, before Amiga.
No, perhaps we'll say then, blatantly modeled.
Uhhh, gee, guess you got me there. Oh wait, run Windows under Bootcamp and run all those PC games, or at least 90% of them. Or do you not know that this is possible? THAT'S what i mean by ultimate. Can a run of the mill PC run Mac OS X, at without running some arcane hacks? Nope. All I'm saying is that in terms of being software compatible, Macs are actually above Windows in this regard. Yes, Windows has far more software available for it, but I have rarely, if ever, felt left out in terms of what software I can run on my Macs.
Quantity does not make a platform better IMO.
lol, apple has no position to claim innocent on this anyway, its not like apple didn't "blatantly modeled" anything after all.
We can get better discussion by putting this type of "not really meaningful" accusations aside.
Well, thats another whole can of worm you just released.
do you think mac users should be thankful to microsoft for allowing windows to run on macs?
or do you think apple shouldn't be responsible for restricting PC hardwares of running OSX?
I guess you are really saying apple can take advantages of other people's openness, while giving nothing back and sticking its own close ecosystem. I admit thats an advantage. But i regret its low tactic.
Lastly, by your logic, your Ultimate computer probably also implies ultimate priced then, since most macs are intel GMA powered.
IIRC, Xerox was making a GUI that did pretty much anything a modern GUI does in '81. Could be wrong though.
A Mac (hardware wise) is just another PC, and I seriously doubt MS cares whether somebody buys a MB and uses Vista or buys a Dell PC with Vista on it. If we are just talking about OSX, however, the compatibility is nowhere near close. From games to Blu-Ray to legacy programs, Apple just hasn't shown an interest in making sure that their software works with a lot of different programs.
You sir, obviously know nothing about how operating systems work. For one, you don't write an OS to be compatible with existing programs. You have it all backwards. First comes the OS; then software developers use the APIs provided by the OS writers to develop their applications.
Legacy programs? What legacy programs? If you mean OS9 and earlier software; who cares? Games? It is not up to Apple to re-write their entire OS so existing x86 games developed using Microsoft Windows APIs work; why the hell do you think there is boot camp and dual booting? Blu-Ray? How many people do you know that actually have HD resolution computer monitors? I am sure we'll see Blu-Ray real soon; it makes sense for Apple to have waited to see whether HD-DVD or Blu-Ray was going to be the standard.
If there isn't software that is native to OS X; then you can only blame the developers of said software; not Apple. Of course market share plays a lot into this and many developers just don't have any interest in developing for OS X...oh well, get over it!
-mark
again, nice tactic, and probably offers some very valid points.
However, what do end users care? When you push your product to TV viewers, you ask them to call software developers or what?
Your response doesn't change the fact described by previous poster.
I think the strategy sucks, that Apple rag on the competition. They should shut up and concentrate on their own strengths and not bother mentioning the competition, at least when it comes to marketing. The get a mac ads do nothing for the image of the mac, or mac users.
Time for Apple to act like a grown up company. Great products should be able to sell themselves without bringing other people products down.
I also find it ironic that Apple's superior operating system is so good that they have to hold back on the features for 10.6 and concentrate on performance and bugs.
Time for Apple to act like a grown up company. Great products should be able to sell themselves without bringing other people products down.
I also find it ironic that Apple's superior operating system is so good that they have to hold back on the features for 10.6 and concentrate on performance and bugs.
Well I probably should have worded that as "you don't go out of your way to write your OS to be compatible with software that is written for another OS with completely different APIs; unless that is your intention, which in the case of Apple, isn't".
Well the truth of the matter is that an Apple system comes with a lot of nice software out of the box that lets you do pretty much everything the average user would ever want or need to do.
About the only package I could see people migrating from Windows "required" to purchase would be Microsoft Office; unless they don't do anything in office, which then makes it a moot point.
It is ignorant and foolish to make a blanket statement saying that Apple's OS isn't compatible with software. WHAT software?!!
-mark
see, this is where windows' true strength is, there are numerous programs, as well as hardwares out there that you and me probably never heard of, that work on windows only.
Its the power of market domination, for sure
Its also the power of availability (such as low price pcs, as well as running on all hardware combos.) .
Actually, some of the incompatibility of OSX with some software is actually the reason I am getting my wife a Macbook. She always seems to get herself in trouble with her Dell by downloading stupid little programs that install spyware and other junk. So I am actually banking on OSX's incompatibility with most of those little junk programs to provide my wife with a computer that she will have a less likely chance of filling up with junk and can use for what she needs. And I know, educate her as to not download those little junk programs and she won't have that problem. But just try and tell someone not to download something on a computer, that never seems to work.
I like how you judge people without knowing them
I have been at various levels of I/T in many different companies:
Programmer - Mumps/Cache, Visual Basic, OpenVMS, Python, Bash Scripting, Windows Scripting, Unix, HTML, some Java, Some C++, MEDITECH Magic (proprietary OS and language)
Network Support
Operations - Backups, OS support, hardware (repair, installation, upgrades [on both servers and desktops].
Training, Support, and diagnosis - Helpdesk, one on one, group sessions.
Preparing technical manuals
Desktop Support - Windows 3.11 -> Windows XP
Field Tech -> All of the above at client sites.
Management
Basically I covered many areas of I/T with different technologies and platforms. In some companies, covering all of these areas at once....
At one place; I was one out of 3 people who knew anything about computers in the I/T Dept for a mid-sized company (1000 employees in the southeast USA) with 15 to 20 servers, 200 in house PC's in 4 depts, and over 1000 PC's in the field (doctor offices -some we owned and some where clients). The entire I/T dept consisted of 3 people who had any technical background, 20 application support people (all they knew was how to help someone look at data through provided menus), and a CIO who knew nothing about computers and was a Finance major.Try working there
My latest job takes me to VB programing (VB6 and .NET) along with MS-SQL support in a DBA role, and MEDITECH programming. Plus also having to diagnos OS issues for hospitals with with little to no knowledgable I/T staff (120 plus hospitals and growing world-wide)
Plus outside of work; I have supported, trained, upgraded, repaired, etc a number of PC's and other computer equipment (laptops, printers, monitors, etc) for friends, churches, church congregation members, schools, etc. Plus I had programmed many an internet/intranet website for people in straight HTML (as well as using WSYWIG editors).
So your term "muddle" only makes sense in the fact that my jobs and ministry have not had me concetrated in one particular area for my entire life. In fact I use the term "Muddle" as in "barely getting by and playing around". Which obviously is not what I do.
In fact my gifts and talents have led me in a number of directions and areas to serve any company I work at, and also help out my fellow human beings without seeing them get charged an arm and a leg for shotty support (from say Dell). I have also saved money at the companies I worked at by doing a lot of things in-house rather than calling for outside support or outsourcing (something are better done in-house, by your own people).
As also for your term "being completely incapable of picking up anything that a transition to Macs finally made some sense of it all" That is totally untrue. More often than not, I am the go to guy. At my jobs, I am usually the one who the manager runs to when they need help because no one else can figure it out, usually takes me away from the projects I was working on.
I also maintain a very large collection of electronic and printed books on anything I/T related so that if I am unsure of something, I can look it up. But that is usually rarely the case. most of the time I can figure it out without resorting to a book - which usually only gives a broad overview.
I also:
Have an associates degree in Computer Programming
Have a bachelor's degree in Computer Technology
Have many certifications.
Have a 5-year degree in Biblical Studies and was one of the tops in my class.
I have also won awards from Schools and Companies
I usually do not flaunt my achievements, but there are times when I must defend myself against absurd remarks.
But seeing lately how the I/T industry in the USA is really starting to fall in on itself and there is so much over-seas outsourcing or buying off the shelf products (for which support is usually lacking), I have begin to divert my talents elsewhere.
Yes, I had used Windows since 3.11 and Dos before that. Yes I switched to a Mac for my personal computer as I am sick of paying high prices for software, and buying crappy hardware. Yes macs and the software that runs on them are more innovative and easier to work with, and yes a mac can take my ministry further.
So before you judge me - you must see my entire life. I would like to see you work with some of the people I had to put up with, and in some of the I/T shops I had to deal with.
This is now why I am chosing to return to programming, I work at home -so I can spend more time with my family (I still work 50+ hr weeks but atleast I am here with them and can stop and start work again if something needs to be done), but I can still support over 120 hospitals at a moment's notice and can quickly pick up the applications they are using.
Also, because so many computer parts stores have gone out of business locally, and Dell sucks at their customer service, especially when trying to order parts (I just finally repaired the last of the 10 broken 1 yr old dells that were sitting on my floor), that I have also dropped out of the Computer repair ministry. that and well, I was getting to overwhelmed with all the calls on how people were frustrated with their vista machines - for which I could not always help as the drivers for some of the hardware is still not available.
If that is what you call muddle and incapable of picking up anything - well then I guess I should just leave the I/T industry all together and crawl back under the rock you crawled out from.
Are you sure they didn't take more than that?
I took a look through the Windows 1.0-3.1 API awhile back. While I could very well be wrong, the memory model API was pretty much identical. Then again, they might have had to go that route to make porting Excel and Word to Windows easier on them.
A convenient justification for them, indeed!Are you sure they didn't take more than that?
I took a look through the Windows 1.0-3.1 API awhile back. While I could very well be wrong, the memory model API was pretty much identical. Then again, they might have had to go that route to make porting Excel and Word to Windows easier on them.
I would hardly call this a strength. More accessible, to a wider range of mediocre and poorly written programs, perhaps. I find most of the OS X app solutions to be more stable, less buggy, and overall superior to their Windows analogs. Many more 'Windows only' apps will eventually be ported to Mac OSX. Until then, there are always BootCamp, Parallels, and VMWare Fusion.
sorry people is not living in a uniformed world, to portray those apps who don't support OSX as being "mediocre, poorly written", is... IMHO, quite arrogant and probably untrue.
You can find what your personal situation is, for sure, but how in the world did you find 1 billion people's individual needs? Can't expect everybody behave in same way and in same needs.
Sure, Bootcamp, parallels, VM Fusion are there, I guess when microsoft decide to fight back, it only will be "windows vs. OSX" right? They don't make PC anyway.
Right. I'm wondering if you think that that's legal? Or that it's illegal, but you feel it's okay on moral grounds? Or that it's illegal and you don't care?
Can you blame them?!
Here are some possibilities:
Since Micro$oft is no where close to projected revenue, it could be said they may be hemorrhaging money.
Brad Brooks is trying to keep his job and, since his performance will affect his career in the future, he is in damage control mode and is trying to salvage his entire career.
Micro$oft Vista still sucks.
Given Micr$oft's definite pattern of "suckieness", Windows 7 will probably suck badly also. Besides Micro$oft share holders, who cares? By then Apple will have almost 25% of the market and Micro$oft's slide into OS oblivion will continue.
By 2020, Micro$oft will kill off Windows and only market applications, including a stripped down Office that only includes Outlook and Excel.
These are simply some possibilities.
Here are some possibilities:
Since Micro$oft is no where close to projected revenue, it could be said they may be hemorrhaging money.
Brad Brooks is trying to keep his job and, since his performance will affect his career in the future, he is in damage control mode and is trying to salvage his entire career.
Micro$oft Vista still sucks.
Given Micr$oft's definite pattern of "suckieness", Windows 7 will probably suck badly also. Besides Micro$oft share holders, who cares? By then Apple will have almost 25% of the market and Micro$oft's slide into OS oblivion will continue.
By 2020, Micro$oft will kill off Windows and only market applications, including a stripped down Office that only includes Outlook and Excel.
These are simply some possibilities.
We're not claiming that ALL apps written for Windows, or Linux for that matter, are mediocre and poorly written, but many are, amongst the larger number of apps available. Why would I need to fret if certain apps, as you say, are available for Windows only, when stable OS X solutions are available? Addressing the fact that many Windows apps available are buggy is not arrogant, it is merely observant - Intuit Quickbooks or MS Windows Live on Windows offer hardly a pleasant user experience, to name only a few.
IIRC, OSX isn't compatible with Linux. There is actually free software for the BSD's (which OSX is one of) to add a Linux Compatibility Layer so that you can run linux programs in BSD. Apple, for whatever reason, hasn't seen it necessary to implement anything similar. Similarly they could work on Windows emulators that don't require a VM (although that could be on shady legal grounds, WINE hasn't had too many problems).
Legacy programs are the reason the financial industry will likely never use Macs. They are resistant to change, and often use programs for an excess of 20 years. It is the same for any industry that can't afford to have problems pop up every once in awhile.
As for games, the reason nobody makes them for Macs is because Microsoft took the time to create standards that game makers could rely on and Apple didn't.
Everyone I know with a 24" iMac has an higher than 1080p monitor, and even the lowest resolution monitors are higher res than 720p. In fact, i don't know anybody who's monitor couldn't benefit from BR over DVD.
i guess the fundamental problem with that claim of yours, has always been, you confidently predict that there are "stable solutions are available on OSX".
Do you not realize? you might think, rightfully, that your personal and professional needs have been met by OSX. The problem is, there are 1 billions of people out there who might be using this or that softwares or hardwares that just don't fit OSX. You just can't make general statement and claim OSX can met anybody's need and offer a better solution. Thats simply untrue.
another strength of windows, It doesn't need to wait, it can work with whichever player made by any hardware producers, while apple has to wait.
Win98/XP are the ghosts of christmas past and christmas present. Vista is the ghost of Christmas future.
Buy your way out of that hole, Balmer!
Buy your way out of that hole, Balmer!
Funny to see such a longtime MS fanboy having an emotional reaction to a statement that, in fact, summarized very well what Allchin said.
If you wanna talk about being "honest", perhaps you could stop being so biased in your views, which in no occasion whatsoever have reflected anything positive about the Mac or OS X in this forum, no matter how much the facts and statistics show otherwise.
Even for an assumed Mac fanboy like me, at least I say that PCs are still better for gaming or other legacy uses derived from MS's illegaly-obtained monopolistic status.
Or, if you want another real quote from Bill Gates, there you have it:
"I want Mac on PC! I want Mac on PC!"
Right before Windows (badly) copied what was then System...