Microsoft Zune Phone - Holiday 2007?

[BoyBach]

I think the 2007 release date might be a bit optimistic, unless they just 'modify' an existing product and brand it as a Microsoft phone. But I think this is unlikely after the failure of the Zune.

However, I think Microsofts real goal for 2007 is to release Zune version 2.0. I imagine this will be massive improvement over the original (designed by an accountant, now 'retired' by Microsoft at the age of 43), now that Mr Xbox, J Allard, is taking charge.(ARS Technica story)

So, a vastly improved Zune player for Christmas 2007: yes.

Zune Phone: probably not.

 

[fixyourthinking]

who thinks we will see all of the following ...

1) The Zunicator will be a CDMA phone and we will find out that THIS IS THE REAL REASON Verizon passed because Microsoft might have talked to Verizon about exclusive deals.

2) The unit will have an actual tactile keyboard to make the Dvorak/Scoble camps happy

3)The unit will run a Windows Mobile / Zune Hybrid and essentially be like any other high end mobile phone currently on the market except be limited just slightly more by means of DRM.

4) Phone calls will be limited to 3 minutes. (just as Zune beamed songs are limited to 3 days or 3 listens)

I have always felt that the world lost something when Windows rose to take the 95%. ?

Actually Microsoft has about 77% ... but point taken. (there's other OS's on people's and businesses desktops than Mac OS and Windows)

err, this would be a pretty serious thread to iphone (and thus the entire ipod brand)

The Zune is a decent player and has attracted good reviews and interest from PC tech heads.

What reviews in what forums ... the Zune forums? What tech heads? Scoble? Dvorak?

 

[ErikCLDR]

What OS will it run?

Vista Mobile Home
Vista Mobile Home Premium
Vista Mobile Business
Vista Mobile Ultimate


?????

 

[Jo-Kun]

M$ just loves to copy apple. Their OS, their Zune and now a smartphone.

like apple is the first one to build a phone with smart functions & mp3 player... they allso only improved what others have, they didn't invent something completly new... except for the interface off course (but not the first phone with touchscreen... first without stylus )

Nokia & others allready build phones with MP3 functions (not 4 or 8 GB I know) & radio... caldendar adress book email whatever.... apple just did the japanese thing: take something and improve it... Microsoft does the same, let them do it, let them build it cheaper without 2y subscription so Apple has to make their phone available to everyone ;-)

sometimes you people here act as if Apple is inventing everything and microsoft is the copydevil... its not allways the case LOL

allready from day 1 I was unimpressed by the iPhone, the only thing I would like is the iPhone light... no internet no iPod just a phone with a great interface

 

[Analog Kid]

Really? What have you had to do with it? I love hacking code on my Dash, since I get to work with C# in Visual Studio 2005 (bias alert: I work on Visual Studio). I've tried my hand at developing Palm software once or twice, and it never seemed as easy. I'd love to hear what other embedded operating systems you've worked with. Is it just an issue of logo certification? You should complain to the Windows Mobile team, if that's the case.

Cheers,
Aaron

I've worked on a line of products that started with homebrew OS, evolved through VxWorks and now we're running Windows CE/PocketPC on some stuff and a hybrid real-time Linux on others. Other product lines are less GUI oriented and run a variety of systems like µITRON and eCOS. I haven't tried Palm. I find the CE family to be bulky and slow compared to slimmer embedded OS's. It runs slower on a 250MHz processor than our older systems did on a 25MHz processor and the pretty shaded graphics aren't enough to explain it.

The fact that everything is held in RAM rather than being able to XIP from Flash is a nightmare for a product we're trying to make dependable-- I'm told it's because the damned registry has to be dynamic and newer versions are supposed to start addressing this but for now we have to run a third party application to mirror RAM to flash and restore after a crash. It's not stable enough on a battery operated system, probably because it's all RAM based, so changing batteries is a headache. The Bluetooth drivers took forever to stabilize. It's impossible to run anything close to real time because the interrupt latencies are high and inconsistent.

No code is portable if you write it against MFC which tries to encompass more than just the GUI layer, and C# just makes this problem worse (that's one of my complaints about Cocoa being Objective-C based).

The CE family tries to maintain its heritage as a desktop system which makes the user experience clunky in my opinion. All processes are kept running unless you get into the systems panel, hunt it down and kill it. It maintains the taskbar even though the screen is the size of a business card and doesn't have real-estate to spare.

I'm hoping the embedded OS X doesn't make the mistake of carrying all the weight of a desktop OS into a portable device. A portable device has very different needs in the OS layers and in the GUI. Scaling a desktop system down to the reduced hardware seems like the wrong way to go-- there's too much bloat to fight against. Newton recognized this, Palm recognized this. MS took 4 generations for CE to get some of the basics down, and it's still a behemoth.

The counter argument, of course, is that PocketPC is becoming dominant, and our marketing likes it because certain customers want to run third party apps targeted to it. Visual Studio is the key there, I think. It maintains the illusion that any Windows programmer can write applications for a handheld device and, for PDA type applications at least, that might almost be true.

Sorry to rant... I've got some pent up frustrations here and, well..., you asked...

 

[Digitalclips]

First Dell, next Microsoft ...

In the not too distant future ...

'Balmer ousted by board after Microsoft's sales plummet. Gates comes out of retirement to take over the helm of the sinking ship ... Gates stated he has a better track record of knowing what things at Apple to copy' ...

 

[J Radical]

Actually Microsoft has about 77% ... but point taken. (there's other OS's on people's and businesses desktops than Mac OS and Windows)



What reviews in what forums ... the Zune forums? What tech heads? Scoble? Dvorak?

http://reviews.cnet.com/Zune_30GB_black/4505-6490_7-32068976.html

And the impressions I've read from other forums I'm a member of.

The discussion on this topic has been infantile.

There are other good mp3 players out there which are not ipods- Zune is MS's first step into a new market, like the xbox they developed the product quickly and are willing to take a big hit in the pocket to see it succeed.

Apple has been successful because it hasn't stood still in the mp3 market, it makes as much sense for MS to get into the smart phone business as it does for apple.

A price drop and or an iPhone nano would be the best response to the new zune brand. And where the hell is the full video ipod to sort out the zune in the video mp3 market?

 

[ezekielrage_99]

Unlike an STI do you think if we ignore the Zune it will go away

 

[Digitalclips]

Unlike an STI do you think if we ignore the Zune it will go away

Let me think ... if everyone ignored Zune would it go away? That's a hard one. I guess if MS staff had to buy one a day they might keep going ... lol Just kidding. The market will decide as always. Things can go away if they don't sell. TWA went away, PANAM went away, one day MS will go away. Can but hope

 

[Stella]

Any phone from microsoft may not contain the fatal flaws of the iPhone:

- open platform ( microsoft do not close their platforms to third party development )
- cost ( SIM locked - even though you've paid full price )

Microsoft could very well out do the iPhone - sure it may not have the interface but if they don't do the exclusivity like Apple did - that gives consumers the freedom to pick and choose the carriers.

windows mobile ( zune is based on that ? ) is more mature than the OS Mobile ( windows mobile has been around for years, mobile OSX - never been used in the wild ) and therefore potentially less bugs / problems.

However, both Apple and microsoft have to compete against other cell phones, i.e., Nokia - and that will be very, very tough.

I wish people would cut the 'microsoft are copying Apple'. Yea right - as if Apple never copy anyone...

 

[mrthieme]

Microsoft - "We have a plan to rebadge a phone and make it suck in a whole new way, are you in?

Verizon - "Most definitely, we'll do our best to make it suck even more than you ever dreamed possible!

MS - " We want users to be able to squirt viruses and adware to all their friends, what do you think?"

V - " It's like you were reading our minds, we could charge 25 cents for every squirt."

MS - " We like the way you think"

 

[Digitalclips]

Microsoft - "We have a plan to rebadge a phone and make it suck in a whole new way, are you in?

Verizon - "Most definitely, we'll do our best to make it suck even more than you ever dreamed possible!

MS - " We want users to be able to squirt viruses and adware to all their friends, what do you think?"

V - " It's like you were reading our minds, we could charge 25 cents for every squirt."

MS - " We like the way you think"

lol right on! I suggest all the MS defenders are made to buy one and a Zune and not be allowed any Apple hardware for a year. Why are they even in this forum anyway... ? Oh, I know a balanced opinion.

 

[Uragon]

Let me get this straight. The execs are in initial concept meetings and they are going to have a Zune phone to market by November?
Yea right.
The screen saver will be Ballmers crack monkey dance routine.

It's possible they will ask a mobile phone maker and to sell it under a re-branded zune phone. And LOL to the screen saver...

 

[fixyourthinking]

http://reviews.cnet.com/Zune_30GB_black/4505-6490_7-32068976.html

And the impressions I've read from other forums I'm a member of.

This is a somewhat bias review in myopinion and most forums/reviews I have seen (not necessarily Apple bias) call the Zune the most lame competitor wannabe iPod rival yet. Sales also indicate acceptance and are a kind of consumer review. I'm glad you like yours though.

The discussion on this topic has been infantile.

And the discussion has also been very bias in favor of the Zune - Microsoft has admitted to hiring evangelists and bribing reviewers. I agree that some Apple fanboys pile it on a little thick - but for ther most part it's merited

There are other good mp3 players out there which are not ipods ...

Of course there are, but none match the software, hardware, accessory experience that the iPod has.

Apple has been successful because it hasn't stood still in the mp3 market...

Actually this is where you might be off base. The reason the iPod is successful is because it has remained the same. The iPod isn't revolutionary (now) ... it has continued to be simplistically and functionally evolutionary. Other players that add features and constantly change their look can't compete on visual recognition and simplicity

A price drop and or an iPhone nano would be the best response to the new zune brand. And where the hell is the full video ipod to sort out the zune in the video mp3 market?

Are you sure you're not just a fanboy? It's okay if you are. To respond, I don't Apple evens blinks at news about Microsoft doing anything to compete with the iPod.

And by the way ... Microsoft had the opportunity with the Xbox 360 to steal a market - instead they waited ... the Wii is the game in town and I imagine it will eventually put Microsoft back into 3rd, maybe even 4th place.

 

[ricebag]

A phune?

 

[javierbds]

How much will M$ offer to buy Apple?

This is just getting ridiculous ...
Some day, M$ will realize it is cheaper just to buy Apple than try to copy it ...

 

[Stella]

Sorry if I mis-understand you, but microsoft have got the lionshare of the 3rd gen market console - having released the 360 a year in front of anyone else ( well, that was down to Sony's recent problems ).

The Wii is selling very well and has what - 4 million sales - that is very impressive in such a short time. Its an excellent machine, but thus far, no game has utilitised its full graphics potential ( like all games after any console launch ). A shame.

I hope the Wii doesn't turn out to be a fad - because it deserves to do very well. Unlike other consoles - it really does get you interacting with the game.

I would be surprised if the PS3 over turns the 360 lead - without hefty PS3 price cuts to match or better the 360 price. I really think Sony have blown it with the PS3.

We will have to wait for around 12 months to get a true picture of the 3rd Gen consoles - by then all supply constraints should be been resolved.

And by the way ... Microsoft had the opportunity with the Xbox 360 to steal a market - instead they waited ... the Wii is the game in town and I imagine it will eventually put Microsoft back into 3rd, maybe even 4th place.

To get back on topic... a Zune smartphone.. interesting. So, how will it differ from any other smartphone-enabled-media phone?!

 

[Digitalclips]

Sorry if I mis-understand you, but microsoft have got the lionshare of the 3rd gen market console - having released the 360 a year in front of anyone else ( well, that was down to Sony's recent problems ).

The Wii is selling very well and has what - 4 million sales - that is very impressive in such a short time. Its an excellent machine, but thus far, no game has utilitised its full graphics potential ( like all games after any console launch ). A shame.

I hope the Wii doesn't turn out to be a fad - because it deserves to do very well. Unlike other consoles - it really does get you interacting with the game.

I would be surprised if the PS3 over turns the 360 lead - without hefty PS3 price cuts to match or better the 360 price. I really think Sony have blown it with the PS3.

We will have to wait for around 12 months to get a true picture of the 3rd Gen consoles - by then all supply constraints should be been resolved.



To get back on topic... a Zune smartphone.. interesting. So, how will it differ from any other smartphone-enabled-media phone?!

Stella you always have such a calm and well balanced approach to defending MS. Are you connected to them in anyway? Just wondering.

 

[Stella]

Stella you always have such a calm and well balanced approach to defending MS. Are you connected to them in anyway? Just wondering.

I have absolutely no love for microsoft whatsoever. OTH - I don't want to be a drooling Apple over-zealot either. It just seems like I'm defending MS - because on these forums it always ( seems like ) it comes down to Apple v Microsoft.

Even though I dislike microsoft, I admire some things they have done - i.e., console market. They came in late and managed to make a huge impact - especially with the 360.

I like Apple, but some of their decisons are breath taking ( in a negative way ), IMO.

 

[asphalt-proof]

You know, I just can't see why MS feels the need to go with a Zune phone. All WM5 smartphones have windows media 10-11 on them. Basically, they ALREADY have a phones that does music, email, sms, etc. Really, the only difference is that someone else makes the hardware. And in the case of the current Zune, well they don't make that hardware either. Isn't it just a cut up Toshiba? This is absolutely stupid of MS. They are confusing buyers ("Do I get a WM5 smarphone, PDA phone, Pocket PC phone, or a Zune... what the Hell is the difference? I'll just get a Palm.") They are shooting themselves the foot! They are going to piss off partners left and right! This is nothing more than a pissing match between MS and Apple. THe problem for MS is that they are the only ones pissing.

This is a great time for Palm to get their head out and actually upgrade their OS and innovate their offerings.

I was interested in what the submitter had to say about the 'problem of the 6 month lead time allowing other manufacturers to get in the game.' Why would Apple announce a product not yet ready for realease? One POSSIBLE reason is because of the hype built up about the rumored iPhone. It was such a fever pitch that maybe Apple was afraid that if they didn't talk about it, stock would plunge and articles predicting gloom and doom would start up again. This coupled with the fact that they didn't have anything else to present... not even upgraded Macs, could surely spell major problems for the last MWSF. For all those complaining about that last MWSF, maybe that was all they COULD show. Maybe the reason iLife and iWOrk weren't demoed was because they are too tightly integrated with Leopard and would reveal secret features they wouldn't be able to hide.

This is a lot of maybes but I think some of them are pretty probable. Here is hoping that there will be an early release of the iPHone. But unlikely.

 

[Digitalclips]

You know, I just can't see why MS feels the need to go with a Zune phone. All WM5 smartphones have windows media 10-11 on them. Basically, they ALREADY have a phones that does music, email, sms, etc. Really, the only difference is that someone else makes the hardware. And in the case of the current Zune, well they don't make that hardware either. Isn't it just a cut up Toshiba? This is absolutely stupid of MS. They are confusing buyers ("Do I get a WM5 smarphone, PDA phone, Pocket PC phone, or a Zune... what the Hell is the difference? I'll just get a Palm.") They are shooting themselves the foot! They are going to piss off partners left and right! This is nothing more than a pissing match between MS and Apple. THe problem for MS is that they are the only ones pissing.

This is a great time for Palm to get their head out and actually upgrade their OS and innovate their offerings.

I was interested in what the submitter had to say about the 'problem of the 6 month lead time allowing other manufacturers to get in the game.' Why would Apple announce a product not yet ready for realease? One POSSIBLE reason is because of the hype built up about the rumored iPhone. It was such a fever pitch that maybe Apple was afraid that if they didn't talk about it, stock would plunge and articles predicting gloom and doom would start up again. This coupled with the fact that they didn't have anything else to present... not even upgraded Macs, could surely spell major problems for the last MWSF. For all those complaining about that last MWSF, maybe that was all they COULD show. Maybe the reason iLife and iWOrk weren't demoed was because they are too tightly integrated with Leopard and would reveal secret features they wouldn't be able to hide.

This is a lot of maybes but I think some of them are pretty probable. Here is hoping that there will be an early release of the iPHone. But unlikely.

I suspect you are correct about the tie in to Leopard holding everything up. I think soon, very soon, when Leopard is ready loads of stuff will start flooding out of the gate.

Perhaps another 'Maybe' is Apple wanted Vista out there first forcing MS to show their hand fully. Had Apple brought Leopard out last Fall I bet there would have been another delay from MS and a few more Apple ideas would have got crammed into Vista.

 

[aristobrat]

I hope the Wii doesn't turn out to be a fad - because it deserves to do very well. Unlike other consoles - it really does get you interacting with the game.

IMO, the Wii is very much like an Apple product in that it's so freaking easy to understand and intuitive to use, people who wouldn't normally consider getting a game console can't wait to get a Wii.

Any phone from microsoft may not contain the fatal flaws of the iPhone:

- open platform ( microsoft do not close their platforms to third party development )

And the reason that Steve Jobs said that he doesn't initially want third-party apps on the iPhone was from the fatal flaw of Windows Mobile devices, where a wonky 3rd party application can easily lock-up the device.

Out of curiosity, which Windows Mobile phone devices do you have experience with? Anything with WM 2005?

 

[gauriemma]

I'm trying to understand the decision process a consumer goes through these days ;

1: Buy something amazing and innovative - rewarding with my purchasing decision the company that is genuinely trying to push the boundaries of technology and still make it elegant and easy to use ie Apple

or

2: Buy something second rate, clunky and derivative - rewarding with my purchasing decision the company that clones, mimics and stifles the boundaries of technology offered by others and in doing so makes it awkward, complicated and unsatisfying ie M$

Are 95% of people wearing 'micro-goggles' - do they genuinely believe M$ products are the 'best' their money can buy anymore ?

It's interesting that you note this, because whenever I see someone on the train, for example, who is using a non-iPod MP3 player, the first thing I always think is that that person obviously made a deliberate decision NOT to get an iPod, and I can not, for the life of me, figure out why.

Why would you pass over the simplest to use, best made product available in the widest variety of styles and price points (and with the largest number of accessories available)? Is it just to make an anti-Apple statement?

 

[guzhogi]

Hmm, looks like M$'s copiers are still @ work. For some reason, I get the feeling that this would have the same results as the Zune: major flop.

The Zune phone is reportedly not even in development yet, but is expected to be a "smartphone" and run a modified version of the current Zune interface/operating system.

I wonder why not a mobile version of Windows Vista? Probably too bloated to be able to run on any mobile device.

 

[Stella]

I use Symbian devices ( that is a consious decision - not because I just happen to buy it ) - none with WM5. And yes, I install 3rd party apps and use them regularly.

I see no difference between a bad application locking up a Mac and thus losing data and a bad app locking up a cell phone. I view SJ statement regarding this a very poor argument.

Personally, on the Symbian device I have - I've yet to come across a bad app that has locked up my phone good and hard. I came across several on my SE P900 - but never has it resulted in a missed phone call ( but then, granted, people don't phone me every 5 minutes - other people will vary! :-D )

IMO, the Wii is very much like an Apple product in that it's so freaking easy to understand and intuitive to use, people who wouldn't normally consider getting a game console can't wait to get a Wii.


And the reason that Steve Jobs said that he doesn't initially want third-party apps on the iPhone was from the fatal flaw of Windows Mobile devices, where a wonky 3rd party application can easily lock-up the device.

Out of curiosity, which Windows Mobile phone devices do you have experience with? Anything with WM 2005?