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The only thing worse is Apple's neglected product line. There isn't a single excuse that can justify it. It's pathetic and everyone knows it.

I wonder why Microsoft's and other companies' ads don't highlight the fact that macs are outdated. Seems like that could win over a lot of customers. Maybe it's too technical to talk about on TV. Or maybe they do. I don't know, I don't watch tv.
 
I'm not a big fan of the Surface Pro - the screen's too small for my taste. But I love the Surface Book - fantastic screen, fantastic keyboard, excellent trackpad (at least as good as my former Macbook's).


Those who are poking fun at the Note7: Lithium Ion batteries are known to explode / burn once in a while. The iPhone is no exception there. Sure, Samsung was hit hard, but this can happen to all manufacturers. Apple doesn't make its own batteries, it buys it from other manufacturers, just like Samsung, btw.
 
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Message is right on but music could be better. After using a modern hybrid device like the Surface Pro 4 or Surface Book, going back to a Macbook feels like a long in the tooth dinosaur without pen or touch input. Macbook clamshell form factor is the same as the ancient magnesium Sony VAIO Z505 I had in 1998 or so. And, iPad Pro is limited to running blown up phone apps and not professional software. You can spend over $2000 for Macbook and iPad Pro to get somewhat equivalent functionality but without the integration of Surface. Two turkeys don't make an eagle. Maybe the delays mean Apple is making a Surface type device running MacOS.

Buahhaa joke of the week.

I rather stick to the top of the line keyboards and trackpads on my mac. And I rather stick to my "blown up iPhone apps" that are actually optimised for touch than the sorry excuse Windows calls a tablet experience.

Call Microsoft right now, they need more people like you.
 
As a surface pro 3 and 4 owner, and long time Mac user (which I proudly use for work as a virtualization and network architect) let me just go ahead and weigh in on what a surface cannot do:

  • Have updates to firmware without breaking something
  • Dock in 2 separate locations and remember the settings (screen position and layout, etc)
  • have multiple screen dpi settings that work correctly
  • Not spy on you and send every last thing that you do or say back to Microsoft without forcing you to "opt out"
  • Not use your resources and network bandwidth as a commandeered update server for other customers
  • Receive free operating system upgrades for the lifecycle period of the product.
  • Still doesn't have common tools like ssh built directly into the shell (yeah, they finally added a Linux sandbox, but it has to be enabled, and isn't exactly "built in"
So Microsoft is right, they still don't compare. The surface is a nice product, but it doesn't withstand the brutal punishment a user like me can inflict upon it, and it's not a very good tablet either.
 
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I've had all sort of laptops/computers over the years. And i've only just recently got a MBP. I've had laptops that have had much higher specs than my MBP but they never ever ran as good. They would eventually start lagging and crashing. And if i wanted to draw all over my macbook. I'd get an ipad pro. I don't even know why they are comparing a tablet to a laptop. My MBP runs flawlessly and i've recently got into video editing and been doing that effortlessly. I had a samsung laptop i7 quad core 16gb ram and that was failing to play youtube videos because all the anti virus software was messing it up. It took me a while to go through all the bloatware that was installed and uninstall things one by one to see what was causing the problem. Turned out to be Mcafee. Once I got my Macbook I knew from the moment I started using it I was never going back to Microsoft plus anything after Windows 7 is just dreadful. And as others have said other laptop trackpads are just awful. Oh and it comes with a keyboard. Funny how apple gets blasted for releasing wireless airpods. Which you don't have to buy. As the iPhone comes with headphones. And an adaptor for other headphones. But Microsoft release a "laptop" that doesn't come with a keyboard. It's an extra £100 for the keyboard for this "laptop". And nobody bats an eye.
 
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But Microsoft release a "laptop" that doesn't come with a keyboard. It's an extra £100 for the keyboard for this "laptop". And nobody bats an eye.
Eh? Really? It's only ever been mentioned in EVERY review of the Surface.

I love how Apple Defence Force get so riled up over something as simple as this cheeky line of ads.

Apple is safe from the attentions of MS. But Apple have never been so incredibly boring.
 
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Eh? Really? It's only ever been mentioned in EVERY review of the Surface.

I love how Apple Defence Force get so riled up over something as simple as this cheeky line of ads.

Apple is safe from the attentions of MS. But Apple have never been so incredibly boring.

Ah well it didn't seem to make the news in the technology world probably why i've not noticed. Which really doesn't suprise me. I'm not riled up. I find their desperate attempts on selling their products hilarious. In my experience my MBP has floored other laptops i've used in every way. Just like my iPhone has floored every other android device i've used. But each to their own.
 
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MS compare their current Surface with a basically five year old Macbook Air, that just shows how desperate they are and how high they place their competitor Apple.
 
Ah well it didn't seem to make the news in the technology world probably why i've not noticed. Which really doesn't suprise me. I'm not riled up. I find their desperate attempts on selling their products hilarious. In my experience my MBP has floored other laptops i've used in every way. Just like my iPhone has floored every other android device i've used. But each to their own.

Aye each to their own. I waited years for Apple to release the product I wanted. MS got there first.
After almost two years now of using both a Surface - 3/4 and MacBook Pro every day I can hardly notice a difference between OS X and Windows 10. They both do exactly what I want them to do, stay out of the way and not crash.

When I'm not working I only have to carry around one device that covers 100% of the things I want to do. That being the Surface.

It's hardly a desperate attempt either. Poking fun at the competition is something Apple and MS have been doing to each other for decades.
 
Aye each to their own. I waited years for Apple to release the product I wanted. MS got there first.
After almost two years now of using both a Surface - 3/4 and MacBook Pro every day I can hardly notice a difference between OS X and Windows 10. They both do exactly what I want them to do, stay out of the way and not crash.

When I'm not working I only have to carry around one device that covers 100% of the things I want to do. That being the Surface.

It's hardly a desperate attempt either. Poking fun at the competition is something Apple and MS have been doing to each other for decades.

True all companies do it. I don't have a problem with android devices, I've used them quite extensively over the years. But I just prefer the iPhone and have always gone back to it. It works well and works well together with my Macbook. I didn't have that with android. People will always rage against each other on what's better. But its personal preference. Nobody is forced to buy anything apple/microsoft/android. We buy what we want and we have our own reasons for that and nobody can tell us otherwise. But instead on focusing on what a mac can't do..why don't they focus on what their OWN product does and then let people decide on what they want. Saying you can't draw on a macbook with a pen does not make me want to buy a surface in the slightest. And it just comes across petty. As I said from my experience my MBP and iPhone does everything I need it to and has outperformed any other device I have used for my needs. There's no fanboyism here, I've used a range of different products from different companies and found apple to be the best.
 
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But instead on focusing on what a mac can't do..why don't they focus on what their OWN product does and then let people decide on what they want. Saying you can't draw on a macbook with a pen does not make me want to buy a surface in the slightest.

But that's exactly what they are doing. The focus of all of these ads is what some people - like myself, have wanted on Mac's for ages. The ability to interact with the device in a totally different way, using it as a graphics tablet, notepad, sketchbook etc..
Some would argue that is an iPad. I'd argue that I don't want to carry around a laptop, iPad, Wacom etc just to get the job done.

That's advertising though. A stupid jingle with a focus on one unique selling point to make people, "think different".
 
But that's exactly what they are doing. The focus of all of these ads is what some people - like myself, have wanted on Mac's for ages. The ability to interact with the device in a totally different way, using it as a graphics tablet, notepad, sketchbook etc..
Some would argue that is an iPad. I'd argue that I don't want to carry around a laptop, iPad, Wacom etc just to get the job done.

That's advertising though. A stupid jingle with a focus on one unique selling point to make people, "think different".

And an ipad pro would do just that. without the need of all the rest of devices you listed. Their point is they are comparing a tablet to a laptop. Which are two different devices. I know if I wanted to do any form of sketching on a device i'd go for an ipad pro rather than a laptop. You could easily argue that an ipad pro can sketch etc when a microsoft laptop cant do that. Which is true. Because they are completely different devices.
 
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Here comes the usual "Don't make fun of your competition" comments even though Apple did it with the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC ads and this one is actually truthful.
But it's not funny and that's the problem here. If you make me laugh, I might forgive you for mocking competition. I wouldn't get a Surface, because it's still crap. But I would praise your ad, if it's a good ad. This isn't.
 
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And an ipad pro would do just that. without the need of all the rest of devices you listed. Their point is they are comparing a tablet to a laptop. Which are two different devices. I know if I wanted to do any form of sketching on a device i'd go for an ipad pro rather than a laptop. You could easily argue that an ipad pro can sketch etc when a microsoft laptop cant do that. Which is true. Because they are completely different devices.

They are comparing a hybrid to a laptop. Justifiably IMO.
An iPad Pro does 25% of what I require with too many ridiculous workarounds to make that possible.

If I had the cash I'd have sprung for a SurfaceBook - a laptop you can sketch on - but it was just out of reach so a Surface Pro is where I ended up and it's been perfect.
 
And an ipad pro would do just that. without the need of all the rest of devices you listed. Their point is they are comparing a tablet to a laptop. Which are two different devices. I know if I wanted to do any form of sketching on a device i'd go for an ipad pro rather than a laptop. You could easily argue that an ipad pro can sketch etc when a microsoft laptop cant do that. Which is true. Because they are completely different devices.

Too bad the iPad Pro is only capable of 'stetching' but nothing requiring, say, full Photoshop support.
 
I see your point and agree to some extent but I don't think the mentioned products are some gimmicks made out of sense just because we can. It seems to be well thought out. In this case it's not about cores or megapixels it's about ideas. I believe in these ideas. A unified OS so you can turn your notebook into a tablet and turn your phone into a mini desktop? Yes, that's the future in my opinion. Phones will replace desktops (and Apple TV) for most of the users one day. You'll come home, connect it to a display or a TV and enjoy your Facebook, spreadsheets, TV show, a game or whatever you want to spend your time with. That just looks like the natural evolution of these devices.

On the other hand I do not believe in some other things like Oculus Rift or curved TVs (hello Samsung). This is something that I'd call a "future technology" being pushed onto people.
You are correct. I was impressed with the Hololens. Anything else from MS, not really. As for unified OS, it's been tried and nothing has come from it. Like I said, if you rush and don't provide a GOOD product, it simply won't work. What's different with Apple (at least when Steve was around) was that the products were made for PEOPLE to use them; they were not slapped together in hopes that enough people like something about it to justify keeping it around (think of Motorola Atrix or
Just a retaliation.

The difference is that Apple is not saying "iPad Pro is better than Microsoft Surface", or rather, if we take the same logic, "iPad Pro is better than {insert your favorite laptop here} because you can write on the screen, use apps, carry it in your hand" etc etc.
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If you're honest with yourselves, had Apple created the Surface - would you or would you not now be claiming it the greatest single invention since god knitted cheese?
If I believed that after using it, yes, I would. However, I don't see the benefit or using a Surface tablet. Right now I have an iMac, a MBP, and got an iPad Pro (w/Apple keyboard and Pencil) to replace the MBP, but after using it for a few months I'm ready to switch it for a new MacBook (not sure yet if Air or Pro). I would definitely not consider getting a Wintel machine, much less a Surface. I will wait for the tablet from Apple to be more right for me, but definitely no Windows.
[doublepost=1473778123][/doublepost]
I'm always seeing history repeat itself on this forum, and it's like no one learns. Posters here say, "Why hasn't Apple come out with X like other companies?" or "Why haven't they updated Y like other companies?" But they also say "I've got X from this company and it's unreliable..." And then Apple finally comes out with X or Y which often has all you wanted and does it right (at which point everyone will complain about the cost or the look or the fact that this or that company did it first and what took Apple so long...without seeing that Apple has done it without the crashes or loss of battery or whatever).

My point is, post after post here says things like the Surface crashes, or doesn't have the battery power, etc, etc. Yet you're complaining that Apple hasn't updated its laptops. Well...see above. MOST of the time, Apple takes its time and tries to get it right. People complained about the phone not coming out back when there were rumors of it but it hadn't yet come out. When it did they complained that there were already touch-screen phones, this was nothing new, what took Apple and it wouldn't fly. But it did fly because it was the best touch phone on the market, the one that really made use of that technology.

In a nutshell: Apple doesn't usually rush things out, even an update which has to be a little more than an update if it's going to stand out as worth buying in a changing market. You can always switch to companies that put out new products faster. But if you want Apple, you need to be patient. It's up to you to decide if, given their track record, it will be worth the wait.
Exactly :)
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Really? REALLY?

Consumerism at it's finest here folks.
Isn't consumerism what we all practice when we choose a product? We're being consumers, aren't we? :)
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I'm not a big fan of the Surface Pro - the screen's too small for my taste. But I love the Surface Book - fantastic screen, fantastic keyboard, excellent trackpad (at least as good as my former Macbook's).


Those who are poking fun at the Note7: Lithium Ion batteries are known to explode / burn once in a while. The iPhone is no exception there. Sure, Samsung was hit hard, but this can happen to all manufacturers. Apple doesn't make its own batteries, it buys it from other manufacturers, just like Samsung, btw.
Except that the Note 7 batteries were made by Samsung's own division...and I can only remember hearing of at most 10 cases where iPhones have exploded in its entire 9-year history (one of my co-workers was one of them), and all of them, as far as I can remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong, were because they used cheap charger replacements (the ones you can get 20 cables and/or wall charger for $5). That's why Apple charges more for their products, because they're higher quality.
The Note 7, however, was exploding on its own, with no reason to. I read there were 35 cases since it launched, one was in a kid's hands while he was watching a video. I don't recall that happening with the iPhone.
 
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Eh? Really? It's only ever been mentioned in EVERY review of the Surface.

I love how Apple Defence Force get so riled up over something as simple as this cheeky line of ads.

Apple is safe from the attentions of MS. But Apple have never been so incredibly boring.
I think the difference is that MS is comparing a laptop (which has a built in keyboard) with a tablet with a detachable keyboard (which is an accessory sold separately). Yes, Apple's commercial does show the keyboard and pencil in their commercial, but doesn't claim the keyboard comes with the iPad, nor does it insinuate that the iPad is a laptop replacement. It does claim it can do what a computer can do, and they're very careful to use the right words about this, so if you look for the definition of a computer, you'll see they're right. They're not claiming it's better than a laptop or a desktop, they don't highlight the keyboard nor insinuate it is included, nor do they claim it's better than any particular product because of x or y. They just say: When you see a computer that can do all that, it makes you wonder, "hey, what else can it do?" Technically, smartphones and tablets are ALL computers, so they're not lying about it being a computer. If we get stuck on thinking that only desktops and laptops are computers, then we'll keep going around in circles on this one. So by the definition above, the Surface is also a computer, but if they wanted to compare one of their products to the MacBook, they should be comparing their laptop to it, not the Surface. They're trying so hard to convince people in general that a hybrid is better, but history has shown that that is not always the case.
 
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I think the difference is that MS is comparing a laptop (which has a built in keyboard) with a tablet with a detachable keyboard (which is an accessory sold separately). Yes, Apple's commercial does show the keyboard and pencil in their commercial, but doesn't claim the keyboard comes with the iPad, nor does it insinuate that the iPad is a laptop replacement. It does claim it can do what a computer can do, and they're very careful to use the right words about this, so if you look for the definition of a computer, you'll see they're right. They're not claiming it's better than a laptop or a desktop, they don't highlight the keyboard nor insinuate it is included, nor do they claim it's better than any particular product because of x or y. They just say: When you see a computer that can do all that, it makes you wonder, "hey, what else can it do?" Technically, smartphones and tablets are ALL computers, so they're not lying about it being a computer. If we get stuck on thinking that only desktops and laptops are computers, then we'll keep going around in circles on this one. So by the definition above, the Surface is also a computer, but if they wanted to compare one of their products to the MacBook, they should be comparing their laptop to it, not the Surface. They're trying so hard to convince people in general that a hybrid is better, but history has shown that that is not always the case.

Oh come on now.. Some honesty?

TC himself was touting the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement. The iPad Pro advert prominently featured the keyboard, front and centre. It was the MAIN FEATURE of the iPad Pro advert.
This ad from MS was all about writing on the screen with a pen that comes packaged WITH the surface!

You can't have it both ways.

MS released a very well made, thought out product. If Apple had created that it would have been a marvel and everyone on here would be defending it to the last breath.

But no. MS made it and now everyone is making the case for why they need a Laptop, iPad, etc..
 
I think the difference is that MS is comparing a laptop (which has a built in keyboard) with a tablet with a detachable keyboard (which is an accessory sold separately). Yes, Apple's commercial does show the keyboard and pencil in their commercial, but doesn't claim the keyboard comes with the iPad, nor does it insinuate that the iPad is a laptop replacement. It does claim it can do what a computer can do, and they're very careful to use the right words about this, so if you look for the definition of a computer, you'll see they're right. They're not claiming it's better than a laptop or a desktop, they don't highlight the keyboard nor insinuate it is included, nor do they claim it's better than any particular product because of x or y. They just say: When you see a computer that can do all that, it makes you wonder, "hey, what else can it do?" Technically, smartphones and tablets are ALL computers, so they're not lying about it being a computer. If we get stuck on thinking that only desktops and laptops are computers, then we'll keep going around in circles on this one. So by the definition above, the Surface is also a computer, but if they wanted to compare one of their products to the MacBook, they should be comparing their laptop to it, not the Surface. They're trying so hard to convince people in general that a hybrid is better, but history has shown that that is not always the case.

Agreed. I'd definitely choose the ipad pro over the surface. And i'd definitely choose a MBP over any other laptop, which I have done. Plus, Windows 10. Yuck!
 
Agreed. I'd definitely choose the ipad pro over the surface. And i'd definitely choose a MBP over any other laptop, which I have done. Plus, Windows 10. Yuck!

Good for you.. I'd choose one item over two. Less cost, less weight, less things to drag out of that back at airport security, less charging, less hassle. One device that does everything I need it to.

If it wasn't for my job - and if I could get xCode on windows - I'd be down to one Surface to do it all. Fingers crossed that day will be coming soon.
 
Good for you.. I'd choose one item over two. Less cost, less weight, less things to drag out of that back at airport security, less charging, less hassle. One device that does everything I need it to.

If it wasn't for my job - and if I could get xCode on windows - I'd be down to one Surface to do it all. Fingers crossed that day will be coming soon.

Exactly. And I have chosen one item over two. I have my MBP which does everything I need it too. So everyone is a winner.
 
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