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I can't imagine writing on a laptop screen. Talk about Repetitive Stress Injury! Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
 
The iPad Pro runs a mobile operating system, whereas the Surface Pro runs both a mobile and desktop OS. I think this is the biggest difference between them, but one that MS does not exploit. If Apple put macOS onto the iPad Pro, the surface would be dead. However, I don't see Apple doing this anytime soon, gotta make that $$.


Nothing to exploit. Microsoft acting like it has a tablet is laughable. Nobody is running out to buy and use Microsoft's tablet. When you really look at it, you are buying a laptop screen. Keyboard sold separately. This is working for for them a little bit until folks open their eyes and realize Microsoft is just trying to keep Windows computing alive.

Apple could crush the Surface by releasing a tablet that has 2 OSes. Basically it auto runs iOS when detached from keyboard or via button press. I expect to see this within the next 5 years.
 
Apple would never let something like this see the light of day. The song-writing and rhyming couplets are crimes against humanity. Nothin wrong with being cute or even self-deprecating, but these ads fail on all counts. It just ends up looking foolish.

You mean like the lame "genius" series of commercials that have been poorly received and quickly pulled by Apple?
 
Nothing to exploit. Microsoft acting like it has a tablet is laughable. Nobody is running out to buy and use Microsoft's tablet. When you really look at it, you are buying a laptop screen. Keyboard sold separately. This is working for for them a little bit until folks open their eyes and realize Microsoft is just trying to keep Windows computing alive.

Apple could crush the Surface by releasing a tablet that has 2 OSes. Basically it auto runs iOS when detached from keyboard or via button press. I expect to see this within the next 5 years.

There is something to exploit if you don't want to carry around both a laptop and a tablet. I personally think the surface is a great device, but its too pricey for me. At least with an iPad you get a slew of apps thrown in (iMovie, Garageband, pages, numbers, keynote). If they dropped the Surface Pro price by $100-$150, I bet they would see more units moving off the shelf.

I 100% agree with you that Apple could crush the Surface if it released a similar hybrid product, I WANT them to do that! However, I also think Apple would rather their customers buy a $700 tablet and a $1000 computer, instead of just a $700 tablet.

All I want on the iPad is a local file management system. Just give me one place to easily manage files and I would buy one today.
 
I'm glad Microsoft returns to positioning the Surface Pro 4 against Macbooks instead of iPads.
However, they still mislead on this ad (and all of their ads). The keyboard is not included! That's a sham. Microsoft basically sold you a laptop, and charged you extra for the keyboard.
 
I'm glad Microsoft returns to positioning the Surface Pro 4 against Macbooks instead of iPads.
However, they still mislead on this ad (and all of their ads). The keyboard is not included! That's a sham. Microsoft basically sold you a laptop, and charged you extra for the keyboard.

Doesn't Apple show off their keyboard in the iPad Pro commercials (see post 134)? I'm sure there is an * at the end of each saying that its not included.
 
P.S. The MS pen is a much nicer product than the Apple Pencil and works flawlessly. I hope Apple takes some cues there.

Then you haven't used an Apple Pencil. Seriously the Microsoft pen doesn't even come remotely close. I (and many others) actually prefer the Apple Pencil to the Cintiq as far as response time, pressure, and tilt sensitivity goes.
 
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Agreed! Touch screen control should have been added to Macs as a standard feature decades ago, certainly after the iPhone came out. It shouldn't be required to operate the system, but there are times when it really is convenient to do. Just as ios devices should optionally work with off screen pointing devices such as mice and track pads when needed by the user. Which also should have been done years ago. There are some things for which an iPad/iPhone is best and somethings for which a Mac is best and it is perfectly fine for the one to focus on touch screen interaction and the other to focus on external pointing devices, but there is no technical reason why either one should be limited to only one choice. And iOS should have gotten a built in, user accessible, shared file application (i.e. Finder) years ago. Using artificial limitations like these as product differentiators is nothing more than marketing gimmicks running over sound technical design. Microsoft is on to something here and Apple is just being pig headed because they have no visionary leadership anymore and are stuck on autopilot.
It was explained clearly during one of Steve's speeches that people in general (as stated by a few people in this thread) are not comfortable when using touch interfaces on a vertical screen. They've done their research and found that the best way to deal with it is by having a desktop/laptop and a mobile device. If you mix them (like Surface) it becomes awkward/inconvenient...as many have found. As with everything, there will always be a group for whom this is the correct solution, but it's simply not for everyone, exactly the same as the Mac or iOS not being for everyone.
 
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What's funny is Apple is no better than Microsoft now. (Thanks Tim).

Whats terrible about these types of ads are that "Oh hey Apple can't do this" which is really desperate and these people are supposed to have a lot of money but they have zero taste and can't invest in good branding advertising.

Companies this big need to compete with themselves and look at brands like Nike in terms of advertising.
 
Apples campaign was funny and witty, I do not see that in any Microsoft ads.They are sometimes plain normals ads, but more often they are just terrible. It is not like they wouldn't have the money to hire the best ad agency there is....


I agree. What made Apple's "I'm a Mac" campaign so great is that while it showed the Mac as superior to the PC, it still made the PC character (John Hodgemen) fun and likable. This was a truly clever move that allowed Apple to paint its products in a superior light while still sending an overall positive message.

Sadly there is nothing clever about the MS commercial.
 
I can't imagine writing on a laptop screen. Talk about Repetitive Stress Injury! Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

But at least you easily CAN if you want. And it becomes VERY useful when, for example, you need to annotate PDF tutorials. Now that I have the iPad Pro ( +Pencil), I no longer print PDF tutorials / books for annotatig but do it entirely on my iPad.

(I had early Windows tablets, even with Wacom pen, before but the lower resolution / lower battery life / slower CPU / lack of touchscreen (while pen was, naturally, available) made them pretty tiring for the same stuff. This is why it's only with the large-screen and sufficiently reliable iPad Pro that I have completely moved to electronic document annotation.)
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Then you haven't used an Apple Pencil. Seriously the Microsoft pen doesn't even come remotely close. I (and many others) actually prefer the Apple Pencil to the Cintiq as far as response time, pressure, and tilt sensitivity goes.

N-Trig and Wacom do have their strengths, mostly because of their dedicated and 100% reliable digitizer layer:

- hovering (the Apple pencil can't do this at all)
- 100% reliability, as opposed to the false palm detection of Apple making many strokes mistaken for palm and subsequently deleted.

Of course they also have their weaknesses too (e.g., lack of tilting - which isn't an issue with, say, PDF annotation.)
 
I can't imagine writing on a laptop screen. Talk about Repetitive Stress Injury! Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Like the repetitive stress injury from touching the screen since mouse is unsupported on iPad Pro? Or, from taking notes and drawing diagrams with keyboard and trackpad/mouse since pen isn't natively supported on Macbook unless you want chiropractor bills from carrying around a Wacom tablet?
 
Of course they also have their weaknesses too (e.g., lack of tilting - which isn't an issue with, say, PDF annotation.)

It's seriously not even an issue when drawing, painting, sketching - especially if you've spent most of your life using mechanical pencils.
 
If you're honest with yourselves, had Apple created the Surface - would you or would you not now be claiming it the greatest single invention since god knitted cheese?

The thing is, in most cases, when Apple releases a new product, they might strip it of some used-to features (USB slots, Audio jack), they might not give it the very very latest tech, they might sell Ram at unusually high prices, but they usually also create something that really works well in its target scenario, or they simply dont do it at all.

Apple might one day make something similar, which is when everybody will say: They just copied it. But at the same time, it will just work and the user experience will be near impeccable, which is not the case for the Surface Pro 4.

(edits)
 
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it will just work and the user experience will be near impeccable, which is not the case for the Surface Pro 4.
I've not had any issues with mine.
My Mac and iPad however... Not so good. The, "It just works", has not been the case for a while.

"Apple, It's a few patches away from working"
 
Here comes the usual "Don't make fun of your competition" comments even though Apple did it with the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC ads and this one is actually truthful.

Quite honestly, if the Surface cannot run OS X, I'm not interested. Since it only runs Windows10, there's nothing I can say or do that would be more insulting than what MS has already done.

But since you asked, here's my shot at making fun of the competition...

3PMViQP.jpg
 
I have been using a Surface Pro 4 for work for about a year. I think it is great. I haven't experienced any hardware problems and Windows 10 has been very stable for me.

I still use my MacBook Pro at home - although it is getting a little long in the tooth. It would be nice if Apple could upgrade the line, it has been a while.

I don't see why the Microsoft / Apple debate has to be an either / or proposition. I like Microsoft for work and I like Apple for personal use. I hope both brands stay strong!
 
Well at least Microsoft is not abandoning the surface. Unlike apple who's focusing less and less on their laptop and desktop division.
 
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Then you haven't used an Apple Pencil. Seriously the Microsoft pen doesn't even come remotely close. I (and many others) actually prefer the Apple Pencil to the Cintiq as far as response time, pressure, and tilt sensitivity goes.

Actually I have not only used it, but own one and continue to use it regularly. If you are an artist than your use case is different and I can't comment on that. But as a business user the MS is better because:
1 - Battery life. In the 3 months I owned my SP4 the pen never died. My AP needs charging every few days.
2 - The clicker. Want to use OneNote? Well all you have to do is click the top of the pen and OneNote auto starts. Just like a real pen and paper would. Very Applesque in my opinion.
3 - The MS pen acts like a mouse through the OS. Very handy and quite natural (for short periods of time).

That said, I much prefer my iPad Pro and AP over the SP4 and MS pen as a whole system, and it's never safe to assume how or why anyone uses their tech.
 
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I think it's time MS thew the towel in trying to impress uses with the Surface does more than the Mac's

Apple gave up of their campaign long ago "Mac vs PC" ad's, because they were smart, but some companies just don't know when to let go.

Companies shouldn't be controlling us... Users have their own working minds.
 
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