Microsoft's Longhorn

[thatwendigo]

I am sorry . . . the 1 Tb in the Mach computer does not have anything to do with LaCie i was just making a point that some of the newer more innovative companies are putting larger hard drive into their computer

Like who? There are some companies offering chassis with four drive bays, but most don't out-of-box offer RAID that would link and balance the disks. In any case, Apple offers more than 1TB. It goes to 3.5TB and can load balance, as well as share the whole volume across multiple computers.

Big deal.

Sorry I forgot to mention L computers' website. It is www.go-l.com The 9 foot LCD is here http://www.go-l.com/monitors/grand_canyon/features/index.htm. If my calculations are correct [they might not be . . i did the conversion in my head] then 92 inches is like 9 feet or maybe 8. . . . . . . . Ok I am sorry . . I did the conversion wrong it is like 7.6 feet. hey but that is still pretty big and costs a nice amount of money. I wish i had a 92" screen. dont you?

Ah, so you're talking about the guys who blatantly rip off Apple's web design. I'm still not sure if I believe they're a real business with shipping products. Also those displays you're so enamored with aren't on the market yet and consist of multiple spanned panels, not a single LCD. It's a little misleading to refer to it as an eight-foot LCD when it's really just four spanned monitors in a custom case. They're also $18,000 dollars, according to the site's store, analog-oriented on signal, and almost 110 pounds.

They're...interesting. I took a look at those Mach desktops you're talking about, and the baseline model is $3,999. They're overclockers. That's what that whole series is about. They run everything really hot, and then throw an expensive liquid cooling system on it. The towers weigh 65 pounds or more. With one of those monitors, you could have a nearly 200 pound system.

Just for reference:
Mach 3.8
Intel Pentium 4 EE 3.8ghz (Overclocked) w/ CacheFlow
1GB PC4200 RAM (DDR 500)
250GB SATA
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
4x DVD+/-RW
FireWire 400/800
802.11g
Bluetooth

Cost: $6,502 without monitor

 

[MorganX]

Let's be clear - LookingGlass is NOT a new OS... It's effectively a new GUI that sits on top of an existing OS.

That's just not true. The GUI is actually the one component "not" being shown. The new plumbing is what is being shown and is much more complex.

 

[MorganX]

How do you become a Beta Tester?

email betareq@microsoft.com

 

[MBMatt11]

Requirements

I am pretty sure the requirements are for the beta, not for the final os.

 

[MonkeyPie]

Project Looking Glass is just a GUI

I have to reiterate this for everyone, though a bit off topic. Project Looking Glass is NOT a new OS. If you read the information you would know that they are planning on supporting linux and Solaris which are ALREADY operating systems.

I really dont think the Longhorn alphas look like OSX, I have seen the "genie" effect, definite rip off. I have both ppc and x86 processors and have used both Windows and MacOS for a very long time, since I was 6, and you know what? Apple will be forever in my heart as the number one OS! Linux and Unix tied for second (I know OSX is unix), BeOS, SkyOS, and then finally Windows. I dont think Longhorn is going to usurp this order, though who knows, it might. Wont take the # 1 spot though!

 

[cryhavoc2112]

Thats becuase MS is good at making upfates and fixes becuase Windows has the most problems . . . .as they say "practice makes perfect" . . . . microsoft has had a lot of practicing of making updates and patches once a security hole is discovered, becuase the a lot of the time, the hole has been exploited and then Microsoft can quickly patch up the system. When was the last apple only virus, that created a big problem. I think it was 2001, am I wrong? I'd say that Microsoft has a problem what every 4-6 months. This can cause a major problem for big companies with a few hundred computers.

Ummm...did you ever stop to consider why the Mac OS doesn't have viruses written for it? Because at 3% market share, what would be the benefit? You cannot tell me that OSX is secure. There are plenty of security sites that will argue that point. OS X has known holes that Apple refuses to plug just yet, because they are not considered a "critical" vulnerability. http://www.macnn.com/news/24565
How is Apple different from (better than) Microsoft?
Let the angry Mac flamers begin.

 

[a_iver]

And let the Windows users with bad excuses begin. Don't recall any viruses for Mac OS X now that I thinks of it, although I don't think that will last forever. Actually, no, only one concept virus. As for the viruses for windows... you get the picture. You would think sooner or later some disgruntled teenager would dream up a virus in the midst of many mac user's pride. Or perhaps that the mac platform would account for 3% of viruses because all windows users think of a mac as only that number. Perhaps someone wanted to seek out one of those security updates in anger while glaring into the Apple in the upper-left corner of the screen. Mac OS X is based on BSD and 99% of it's users love the OS in general. They did a good job securing the OS so far and continue to fix it when they find problems. Whether or not it takes a few days or a few weeks is irrelevant because a virus is not likely to be written, and because if they do write a virus it will only increase the number of people who update their system - which already is good enough to prevent the spread of most attacks.

 

[etype]

Interesting choice of fonts in those screenshots

Interesting that they chose to use Myriad or Myriad Pro for those dialog windows screenshots:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_02.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_03.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_04.jpg

...the same typeface that Apple now uses for their new CI. Not that I'm complaining, Myriad Pro is one of my favs.

 

[Mac Dummy]

I don't see the average computer having a 1tb HD in 2 years...

500-750 MB at best. Wonder how much these new PCs will cost that are going to be able to run Longhorn? If these are bargain basement specs, then what will the high end gaming and video editting machines cost?

 

[Jonathan Amend]

Interesting that they chose to use Myriad or Myriad Pro for those dialog windows screenshots:

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_02.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_03.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/4074_01_04.jpg

...the same typeface that Apple now uses for their new CI. Not that I'm complaining, Myriad Pro is one of my favs.

Well if that was about who copied who, those dialogues are remnants from Windows Neptune/Odyssey (1999).

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp_gold.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/ac_preview.asp

 

[AppleTigerStud]

Windows Longhorn

Personally, Windows sucks so here is my thought about Microsoft Windows Longhorn now when you read my quote make sure you spread it around because it is the ungodly truth.

"Windows Longhorn; just another load of BULL from Microsoft"-Grant Bleashka (Me)

 

[Fukui]

Ummm...did you ever stop to consider why the Mac OS doesn't have viruses written for it? Because at 3% market share, what would be the benefit? You cannot tell me that OSX is secure. There are plenty of security sites that will argue that point. OS X has known holes that Apple refuses to plug just yet, because they are not considered a "critical" vulnerability. http://www.macnn.com/news/24565
How is Apple different from (better than) Microsoft?
Let the angry Mac flamers begin.

Not angry, but...where are the Apache worms, the BSD worms etc, these have a LARGE marjority of installed systems than MS does, and yet the amount of worms/virii written for these platforms is disproportionally smaller than those for windows. I don' think that the market share makes a difference, its who you are trying to make look bad (i.e theres lots of angry (at MS) nerds out there)

 

[ltgator333]

I don't see what all the fuss is really about...
Microsoft can make the biggest baddest operating system known to man and I would still be using something else more often than not. Is it because I don't like MS? That I don't like the way they're UI works? Or that I realize there's alternatives that work just as well (for what I'm gonna do) and that appeals to my rebellious mind? ..all of the above?
I suspect there's other people that have replied to this thread that feel the same way.. so really I don't see what the big argument is for, a lot of fuss for something your just gonna not use anyway right?

 

[ingenious]

Ummm...did you ever stop to consider why the Mac OS doesn't have viruses written for it? Because at 3% market share, what would be the benefit? You cannot tell me that OSX is secure. There are plenty of security sites that will argue that point. OS X has known holes that Apple refuses to plug just yet, because they are not considered a "critical" vulnerability. http://www.macnn.com/news/24565
How is Apple different from (better than) Microsoft?
Let the angry Mac flamers begin.

yes we've ALL considered that and found that out that that argument holds no water. UNIX is much more secure than windows. its been proven.

 

[darkace17]

500-750 MB at best. Wonder how much these new PCs will cost that are going to be able to run Longhorn? If these are bargain basement specs, then what will the high end gaming and video editting machines cost?

actually if u ask me 1TB doesnt seem that far off to me. Dell is already offering 800GB Dual Hardrives and 400GB single Drives. I'd give it only a year before you see some at 1TB or more.

 

[titaniumducky]

actually if u ask me 1TB doesnt seem that far off to me. Dell is already offering 800GB Dual Hardrives and 400GB single Drives. I'd give it only a year before you see some at 1TB or more.

ummm....

LaCie already makes a 1TB HD (external).

 

[dvapplepro]

Ok i got my hands on a copy of a beta version of longhorn, i cant say much, other than, you want us to pay for that. I think that microsoft need to focus on more of the way that windows is writen, all of its crappy problems that have to deal with things like security updates and other crap like that. See the interface is very big and blue. I will give you a screen shot at the bottom of this thingy. What i think is going to happen is a windows 2000 to a XP thing again. There going to be putting out a filler OS, like windows ME the worst peace of crap ever put out. Let me just say ether way bring on the security updates YAY....

http://crazybobby.com/temps/desktop screen shots/desktop.JPG

ps: I got this **** out of my computer extreamly quickly...

GO OPEN SORCE, GO MAC OS

Bobby The Gibbons
crazybobby.com

 

[dvapplepro]

actually if u ask me 1TB doesnt seem that far off to me. Dell is already offering 800GB Dual Hardrives and 400GB single Drives. I'd give it only a year before you see some at 1TB or more.

I tell you i got a file server at home that has a little more then 1TB and let me say, were filling it up, the only problem that i have is the cooling on all thoese drive in the computer, god knows how much disk space i got locally


Bobby The Gibbons
crazybobby.com

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Personally, Windows sucks so here is my thought about Microsoft Windows Longhorn now when you read my quote make sure you spread it around because it is the ungodly truth.

"Windows Longhorn; just another load of BULL from Microsoft"-Grant Bleashka (Me)

At least we are all keeping an open mind about it.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

yes we've ALL considered that and found that out that that argument holds no water. UNIX is much more secure than windows. its been proven.

I totally agree, but that doesn't mean that OS X cannot introduce certain holes that would not be in another flavor of UNIX.

I think that you have to look at both things. OS X is probably inherently more secure than Windows, but the smaller market share for Macs (especially in the business world) make Windows a much more inviting target for Viruses and Worms.

The two factors work together neither argument is right or wrong.

 

[Dom]

Forget high system requirements. Forget reliability or security. Forget fatty coding. There's one simple reason why Longhorn will never win over Mac Users and will continue to irritate less technically inclined PC users.

And that reason is corporate philosophy.

Apple exists because the two Steve's wanted to remove the exclusivity of computing power from large corporations and put it in the hands of the individual. The result of this philosophy has been a lineage of computers and OSs that have been intuitively easy to understand and easy to use. Products that are well thought through, well designed and well engineered. With a few minor grumbles on my part, it's obvious to see that OS X continues that tradition.

Microsoft on the other hand, has never seemed to display any such ideals. It exists to make a quick buck. MS DOS wasn't a brilliantly innovative piece of work. It was a convenient rip-off of CPM. Windows wasn't a forward-looking example of ingenuity. It was a rip-off of Mac's system software. Bill Gates might argue that Apple didn't invent the Gui because he saw Xerox's pioneering work at the same time as Steve Jobs. But even if this is literally true, Gates is missing the point. Steve Jobs had the vision to see the brilliance and benefits of the idea. Bill Gates failed miserably to see any further than the next financial quarter. And when Microsoft did finally see the light and ripped off the Mac OS, their laziness at bolting it onto MS DOS, and lack of imagination in understanding why Macs worked so well, resulted in a grotesque, illogical and unstable OS. And through personal experience, all MSs subsequent OSs are of the same pedigree.

And that's why people who know, understand and use Macs shouldn't be concerned. There's absolutely no reason to assume that Longhorn will be the product of anything more original, passionate or noble than Microsoft's blatent desire to turn a small amount of effort into a big profit.

 

[MorganX]

Forget high system requirements. Forget reliability or security. Forget fatty coding....... Microsoft's blatent desire to turn a small amount of effort into a big profit.

Your argument, IMO, is fundamentally flawed. Microsoft's Vision has always been, volume. And to achieve that, the campus motto has been from v1.0, Windows on every desktop. Which meant making the PC a commodity that everyone could afford.

Jobs has always been profit motiviated, profit and style before substance. In his own words, overpriced Macs were not "for everyone" but for those affluent enough to pay the luxury Mac tax. Most recently, for profits, they've gutted of their own ISV markets.

Mac users berating Microsoft, ha. Aside from Apple and Microsoft, you really don't have anyone else. Bit players and companies slowly leaving the platform due to the miniscule markets that Apple is now competing with them for, profits.

I applaud Microsoft for making PCs easier to use without dumbing them down or losing the efficiency that I think is Windows' biggest advantage for users who find a one-button mouse, imbecillic. I also applaud Apple for making MacOS much less smotheringly dumbed-down without losing it's ease of use. Interestingly, they've managed this by copying....nevermind.

Win over Mac users. Microsoft doesn't need them. It's better for them to have 2% of the market on an alternative platform. Imagine the Antitrust hot water if the Mac platform didn't exist.

You know how many Mac users would like to upgrade but can't afford another Mac? Quite a few. Now if there was a clone market, and third-party motherboards... well nevermind. That wouldn't leave enough cold hard cash for Apple, Inc. And that's why Windows is Windows (94ish%) and Mac is Mac (2ish%).

 

[Dom]

Morgan X

It would be naive to think that Steve Jobs has never wanted to make a profit. And perhaps it may even be his main motivation. But then, a gentleman is entitled to profit from his endeavours.

Neither am I claiming that the folks at Apple are saints. I have many reservations about the way Apple sometimes does business.

But you said it. Microsoft wanted a copy of Windows on every machine. That statement of intent has nothing to do with the quality of product and everything to do with profit.

You are correct in saying that the original Mac became something of a luxury machine, rather than the inexpensive liberation of computing power that it was originally intended to be. But ironically, this shows that Jobs put innovation before profit. He wanted to produce the best Personal Computer he could, and because of this, the unit cost of the final product went up and up until it was priced out of the market for which it was intended. Yes, it was bad business, but it was also brilliant research and development.

And if there's still any doubt about that, let's not forget that Apple's board of directors made him pay for this attitude with his job.

The simple reality is that if Apple had been as good at running their business as they are at creating their product, if they'd put profit before product, there's every chance that Windows wouldn't be anywhere near as ubiquitous as it is now. In fact there's every chance that Windows wouldn't exist. Because if Jobs had put market forces ahead of innovation, there's every chance that the Mac would never have existed.

And as for Apple 'borrowing' from Windows there are two answers to that. The first is 'what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander'. The second is that a lot of the features of OS X arose because of the way computers are used today and the technology available. Not because of intellectual property theft.

 

[MorganX]

But you said it. Microsoft wanted a copy of Windows on every machine. That statement of intent has nothing to do with the quality of product and everything to do with profit.

Any business is all about profit. Period. Microsoft business model created an industry. An industry where licensing their OS provided their primary revenue streams but also created opportunity for ISVs, IHVs, and others to profit. Microsoft is a software company.

Apple doesn't know what it wants to be, other than profitable. They could care less about creating opportunity for others. Period.

You know, it's not really the GUI, it's the software. Apple would like people to believe it's the GUI since they got theirs out the door first, to give themselves a sense of creating an industry, NOT. Well, kind of true, along with Aldus and Adobe they created the desktop publishing industry.

But Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect for DOS was not even dented by Mac, which by their design could never have become a business standard. Too costly, too proprietary, and too limited. Even Windows took years to dent DOS software and DOS games. I'm not going to relive history.

But even to suggest that Apple's #1 priority since the creation of the Mac hasn't been profits, I just can't conceive that. Their flawed business model (flawed if they intended to ever have a large home and corporate market share) and thirst for over-the-top profits without making sure that trickled down to independents is why Apple is where it is at, and will always be in the personal computer arena.

Do you really think Steve Jobs wants corporate America telling him how to run his business or design products?

Mac users despising Microsoft really makes no sense to me. Do you think if there was no Windows people would be using Macs? Well when there was no Windows OS they didn't, they stuck with DOS and it's superior software at the time (business and games), and open architecture (cost flexibility). And today, they would probably go to Linux, OS/2 Warp, or something else.

And if IBM is successful in opening the PPC architecture, commodity motherboards arrive, MS and/or OSS create a robust OS for it, and IHVs and ISVs can profit from the platform, goodbye Apple, Inc., hello iPod, inc. I don't think IBM will make it happen but if you think MS isn't getting ready for the possibility...

The OS GUI is important in many areas, but overrated when determining why people buy into, or don't buy into, a computing platform.

JMO

PS: I take it since you focus on what MS is doing, that you don't think there's anything Apple can do better to improve the appeal of it's platform to consumers and developers?

 

[krasi82]

If you don't like don't use and shut up. Mac fans use Macs and most of 'em hate Windows and MS. Windows fans use Windows and MS products. Microsoft might own more marketshare and everything but if you think about a computer is a computer it doesn't ammter if it's Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux. If you hate so much then why do you keep talking about it. It;s futile to keep arguing over something that can never be solved. No comapny is perfect, Microsoft has flaws and so does Apple. Thats the way it goes.