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Rigth, if those are they true requirement, Apple better take advantage. Why people think Apple is in business aganist MS is beyond me. Apple is aganist Dell, Gateway, and Compaq. If Dell can't sell $500 systmes, this levels the field for Apple.
The Red Wolf said:
A minimum space requirement of one Terabyte in order to work? Does M$ know how big that is? Average size for OS-X 1-2 GB. It takes a Terabyte, two years from now to even run Longhorn? Wow, doubt you can get a PC with a couple of terabytes for $499 ($599 with rebate). And if it takes a terabyte for M$ to make an operating system that "looks" like OS-X. Good for them.
 
Guys keep in mind that those CPU specs hard drive sizes, etc aren't available today. How do you think MS is testing this software? How do you think their alpha/beta testers will test this software. Hell how would they fit that on even a DVD?!?!
"Look its prompting for DVD #7 for the Longhorn install."
"Wait I thought we were on #9 already?"

Someone pulled those specs out of their ***. If memory serves initial specs for Windows XP was around 700Mhz and that fell drastically when the final gold code was nearing release. I currently run XP on a 500Mhz/256MB system with zero problems. I'd bet cash that the specs are going to be WAY below this for the higher tiered system requirements.
 
Well it still looks like it has as a "Fish-Price" UI to me.

So if you need atleast 4-6GHz to run Longhorn..then that would mean Macs would be running around 5+GHz at that time?

I figure by the time Longhorn comes out we will have OS XI in 64bit form.

I think 10.5 or 10.6 will be last OS X before OS XI.
 
1macker1 said:
I think the specs are wrong because this would run Dell out of business. They wouldn't be able to sell PC's for 400 bucks going by those specs. But who knows how the market will have change by 2007.

No, it won't. Let's take a quick trip through basic chip economics, shall we?

When you process-shrink your product, you can cut more of them from the same amount of silicon, thus increasing your overall yield if the fabbing is solid. As such, the manufacturing agency (Intel, in this case) can sell more processors off of less investment in raw materials, which can translate directly into cheaper processors than the previous generation, or be sunk into further advancement of the technology. Normally, it's both, in some mixture.

System-on-Chip designs, like the ones that basically everyone are working on (Freescale's 90nm e600 dual-core, IBM's Power5/975 dual-core, Intel's Jonas dual-core), are faster because of low latency from being on the same chip, more power efficient because you're not powering a single, extremely deep processor, and also better able to take advantage of things like SMP and SMT optimiziations, leading to performance increases you can't get from multi-chip designs. As such, they'll outperform their predecessors handily if at all properly designed.

By the time Jonas and Merom are released, they'll be consumer-priced and possibly at 65nm, which would make their manufacturing even more efficient. The Dothan (which is due this Monday) takes up less than half it's die. There's plenty of room for a second processor, if Intel works out the interconnects.

Yes, this will severly hurt the $400 market. No, it won't kill Dell.
 
1macker1 said:
I think the specs are wrong because this would run Dell out of business. They wouldn't be able to sell PC's for 400 bucks going by those specs. But who knows how the market will have change by 2007.


very very good point

how would you make up-to-date budget comps.

and all this tal of 2005???? unless im very much mistaken then that is 7months away, if we see technology anywhere near that in 2005 then i will eat myself
 
I seem to think that A LOT OF PEOPLE are still going to be using XP for a long time after Longhorn is released.

I still know LOTS of people that use still use Windows 98, and it's like 6 years old!
 
My observations:

I am guessing that, just like XP, many pixels will be wasted for what MS thinks is 'eye-candy'. Take, for instance, the 'start menu' - it takes up almost the whole screen, and is very hard to use. I don't think it will change enough for most users to get much out of it.

Getting to your documents, programs, etc. is a pain on a PC; column view beats the pants off any file-navigation method on the PC.

Longhorn will be a cheap imitation of OSX.3, and whatever Mac OS is out by then (presumably X.6 or 7, or maybe even OS11) will be (again) generations ahead of Longhorn. Longhorn has the feel about it that Rhaphsody had for the Mac, but with one difference; PC users will buy it because they don't think there's an alternative, or can't bear the though of using a <gasp!> Macintosh.

:mad:
 
1macker1 said:
Too hot? As we look toward the future, they will invent better cooling methods.

Oi!

Or, you know, they could just make cooler processors that run rings around the current Pentium 4s, like Dothan is likely to for most purposes.

SiliconAddict said:
Guys keep in mind that those CPU specs hard drive sizes, etc aren't available today. How do you think MS is testing this software?

I have a friend that's a relatively low peg on the Microsoft totem pole. He has dual Xeons, and probably a quad Xeon now that they're out, sitting in his office specifically to test code on. As someone else posted not long ago, AMD is offering reference samples of quad-Opteron servers as well.

Test as you go, bloat as time goes on.

How do you think their alpha/beta testers will test this software. Hell how would they fit that on even a DVD?!?!
"Look its prompting for DVD #7 for the Longhorn install."
"Wait I thought we were on #9 already?"

Blue-Ray, or streaming download.

Someone pulled those specs out of their ***. If memory serves initial specs for Windows XP was around 700Mhz and that fell drastically when the final gold code was nearing release. I currently run XP on a 500Mhz/256MB system with zero problems. I'd bet cash that the specs are going to be WAY below this for the higher tiered system requirements.

Could you go back and respond to my Trusted Computing post, if you don't mind. I honestly wonder if you still feel the same way after thinking about the points I bring up.
 
Longhorn, whatever its eventual name (probably something boring like Windows 2006) won't be the turkey some people hope for. They are spending a lot of money and manhours rebuilding Windows from the ground up, more or less. Many of the problems Windows has today are legacy. Longhorn is almost as drastic a change for Windows as OSX was for Apple. Actually, the OS9 to OSX transition is perhaps more akin to moving from Windows 98 to Longhorn. It's a totally different codebase. Except in the case of OSX, although a new Unix distribution, it has a long development history behind it at its core, most notably the 10 or so years of NeXTStep, but also from the whole BSD community, and all the exhaustive security work done for NetBSD which I believe has never been successfully hacked.
Microsoft isprobably reusing or rejigging chunks of existing code, but essentially it's all new (and untested). Currently with XP, they are constantly patching the leaking security holes, patches upon patches, because the underlying Windows architecture wasn't designed with security in mind, so even extensive changes from the original NT codebase won't help with the underlying problem. Longhorn is being rebuilt with security very much in mind, so their chances of getting good security for once is much improved, although they have the problem of any new unproven system.
I doubt those are the actual system requirement, however. I seem to have read those specs first as an indirect quote from Bill Gates that those are the sort of specs he EXPECTS are common by then, not what's to be minimum requirements, so Longhorn will be geared towards the near future somewhat. They're copying the concept of farming all the eyecandy rendering off to the graphics card, and considering how they've developed, and what they can do now, you shouldn't need anything much faster than the current top systems. At least I hope not. Microsoft doesn't have a good record here. The hardware industry very much rely on this bloat effect to drive upgrade cycles. A programmer friend of mine once said (a few years ago) that if Windows and MS software keeps growing at the rate it is, it will soon consume the entire solar system.

When I first saw the list of features for Longhorn, I had a definite sense of Deja Vu, because it was like a list for OSX from when it came out, plus some that seem 'borrowed' from BeOS, like the filesystem as a database concept, and the better use of Metadata. OSX could do well to implement a lot of BeOS's filesystem features, too. They employ some former BeOS filesystem engineers, after all. That's who designed the OSX journalling system.

But don't be fooled, it will be a very sweet OS, and probably better looking than XP. The 'Slate' theme looks fine to me, but the final will presumably look very different. But if the system requirements truly are that great, it will take a while to adopt this new system. Business certainly will just for the extra security (they have too much investment in Windows, and according to a recently leaked MS memo to Bill, they've been fully aware of this proprietary capture in Windows APIs for years and exploit it, they even acknowledged they would be dead without it).
But I'm sure OSX won't be standing still either, and Apple will pay close attention to Longhorn. But people will still go with what they know, like sheep, buying the MS propaganda. They'll have a release akin to the Windows 95 campaign.

Maybe Macs won't seem quite as expensive once the minimum requirements for Windows blows out.
 
adamfilip said:
Right now i have 160 Gigs of hard drive space
and 1280mb RAm.


next time i upgrade i will get a minimum of another 250gig hard drive
and 2 more gigs of ram.

and this is prob within a year

so in 3-4 years.

having over a TB of hard drive space. is realistic
and 3-4 gigs of ram. aswell

More important to Microsoft, who makes money selling software and especially office aps - Will businesses buy this? A big (and I mean BIG) percentage of business have resisted switching to XP for a number of reasons, including (albeit a few years ago) hardware requirements and percieved lack of new functions (the GUI doesn't count for most businesses). I work in an architectural firm, and we're still on windows 2000. Why? because we don't need XP to run AutoCAD, Photoshop, ARCview, etc. Will we switch to Longhorn? Who knows. . . .but the standard machine in our office has 512MB - 1GB of ram, and that's plenty for 90% of what we do. Maybe our rendering machine will have 3 or 4 GB of ram, but right now it only has 1GB. I would also bet that the entry level business machine, even in 2006 won't have more than 2GB of ram. . .
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
very very good point

how would you make up-to-date budget comps.

and all this tal of 2005???? unless im very much mistaken then that is 7months away, if we see technology anywhere near that in 2005 then i will eat myself

Who said there would be budget computers anymore? Maybe Microsoft and Intel have realized they can just cram things down others' throats and they'll buy it. Also, you're off. The release isn't slated until at least 2006, which by my count, is some 19 months away at the earliest.
 
Piles

In this month's issue of Discover, in the Technology article the author went to Redmond to take a look at Longhorn. She waxed on and on about all the interface/usability improvements and how revolutionary they are supposed to be...and the kicker? the thing that impressed her the most were the Piles system for file managment. If you ever read of the Piles stuff that was on here right before Panther came out, and then read the article, you'd realize microsoft stole it, lock, stock and barrel.

Chris
 
Mindcrime said:
In this month's issue of Discover, in the Technology article the author went to Redmond to take a look at Longhorn. She waxed on and on about all the interface/usability improvements and how revolutionary they are supposed to be...and the kicker? the thing that impressed her the most were the Piles system for file managment. If you ever read of the Piles stuff that was on here right before Panther came out, and then read the article, you'd realize microsoft stole it, lock, stock and barrel.

Chris


Really piles?
Apple has a patent on that baby...doesn't it?
 
thatwendigo said:
I disagree, because of one thing and one thing alone. Microsoft wants to push Trusted Computing, which will probably eat disk and clock cycles both, but will only really be a hog if they let it bloat. However, it's in their best interests to do so if it means that they can force people to upgrade to newer boards/systems that have the hardware implementation embedded. At that point, they've got you and you're locked into whatever upgrade scheme they come up with, whatever they want to do, because the system will be doing a much more active version of what XP does no - calling home.


No offense but you are WAY off on what Trusted Computing is anc can do. Trusted Computing is the most misunderstood concept in MS history closely followed by .NET or as I call it .CRAP

Trusted Computing is an authentication scheme pure and simple. Its intended to have all things being signed. Applications, e-mails, pictures, data packets, everything. This does NOT require disk space (well relativly speaking since there is probably a dbase handling the management of signed apps but really 1TB? I think not. And the overhead won't be any worse then what you'd get with WEP encryption, SSH encryption, VPN etc. In fact the overhead could very well be drastically less since there will be support chips both in the mobo and the CPU to aid in this process.
Now the first big complaint that everyone has is OMG!! MS is going to lock us into this proprietary system!!! Take a deep breath and relax. Note that this system is opt in. From what I understand MS will have this option disabled by default in Longhorn. This feature is going to be most appealing to the enterprise environment and govs who are looking for a tightly locked down computing network and make no mistake about it Trusted Computing can accomplish this.
 
thatwendigo said:
Who said there would be budget computers anymore? Maybe Microsoft and Intel have realized they can just cram things down others' throats and they'll buy it. Also, you're off. The release isn't slated until at least 2006, which by my count, is some 19 months away at the earliest.

so what are you saying that there wont be any budget computers????
silliest statement i have ever heard (not counting the "ill eat myself comment" ;) )

what would the world do without cheep computers???
it would have huge effects
 
Dippo said:
That's great Les Kern...

Directly in the Recycling Bin is where Windows BELONGS!!!

And did you notice? Longhorn is still in Alpha but step 3 wants you to download all 48 (!) Service Packs...
 
I have a copy from MSDN and I can say with absolute certainty that someone made those req's up. It runs perfectly fine on my pIII 733 with 256mb of ram. You just have to remember that microsoft is in the business of making money just like everyone else. Why would they publish an OS that only a few machines could run?

My opinion of longhorn so far is that it is exactly the same as XP with a few new interface enhancements, better file system searching(note that I didn't say better file system overall), and major security enhancements. I think they finally figured out the installer this time around as well.
 
Yeah, most people buy cheap computers just to have one. No way will the bulk of the population bay 2K + for a computer. Hell i dont think the bulk of the population is wlling to pay more than 1K for a computer.
AL-FAMOUS said:
so what are you saying that there wont be any budget computers????
silliest statement i have ever heard (not counting the "ill eat myself comment" ;) )

what would the world do without cheep computers???
it would have huge effects
Consumer population.
 
SiliconAddict said:
No offense but you are WAY off on what Trusted Computing is anc can do. Trusted Computing is the most misunderstood concept in MS history closely followed by .NET or as I call it .CRAP

No, I'm way off what they say it is and can do. I'm not off on what Palladium was and what it was supposed to do, and Palladium was the unsanitized TCI.

Trusted Computing is an authentication scheme pure and simple. Its intended to have all things being signed. Applications, e-mails, pictures, data packets, everything. This does NOT require disk space and the overhead won't be any worse then what you'd what with WEP encryption, SSH encryption, VPN etc. In fact the overhead could very well be drastically less since there will be support chips both in the mobo and the CPU to aid in this process.

You're missing the point, and thinking that they'll at all optimize the code, rather than using it as a leverage point to move bigger hardware. Think a little less charitably and start looking at how both Microsoft and the hardware vendors would benefit from an OS that is so new that they can advertise that just to hook some people, but which basically requires you to buy new hardware to use it.

Even if Trusted Computing is scaled back to signing alone, that's still intrusive. There was a to-do over the serial numbers being readable of certain chips, as I recall, though I don't seem to remember which Intel processor it was that allowed it to happen. Having all content signed by a user means trackability for anyone with certain information - like, say, Microsoft.

Now the first big complaint that everyone has is OMG!! MS is going to lock us into this proprietary system!!! Take a deep breath and relax. Note that this system is opt in. From what I understand MS will have this option disabled by default in Longhorn. This feature is going to be most appealing to the enterprise environment and govs who are looking for a tightly locked down computing network and make no mistake about it Trusted Computing can accomplish this.

It's going to be a selling point to enterprise and government, sure. It's also going to be somethng they pitch to media companies in order to try to lock people into WMP and WMA formats, their DRM, and the hardware in general - thus giving more kickbacks to the corporations that are supplying the boards and chips.
 
AL-FAMOUS said:
so what are you saying that there wont be any budget computers????

Not ones that run Longhorn.

what would the world do without cheep computers???
it would have huge effects

You seem to have this mistaken impression that Microsoft cares about anything other than money and acquiring it for themselves. Why would they care what the world thinks?
 
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